Peebo Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 That's how the yanks pronounce the Texan one too. Not from my experience (of living in Hugh-stun). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosanostra Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Not from my experience (of living in Hugh-stun). Been there for a few days and never heard anyone pronounce it like that. Hoo-stun normally but I didn't live there so you should know best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peebo Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Been there for a few days and never heard anyone pronounce it like that. Hoo-stun normally but I didn't live there so you should know best. Fair dues. Quite possibly a southern thing. Lots of folks from elsewhere in the US and abroad. I found that the "locals" would typically say Hugh... rather than Hoo... Probably similar with N'awlins and New Orleens. Anyway, back to the weekly gun debate... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Sausage Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Fair dues. Quite possibly a southern thing. Lots of folks from elsewhere in the US and abroad. I found that the "locals" would typically say Hugh... rather than Hoo... Probably similar with N'awlins and New Orleens. Anyway, back to the weekly gun debate... Was there for 5 years and every local or other American I ran into say Hoo-stun. The Mexicans tended to be a mix of You-stun and Hugh-stun though. But we digress... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peebo Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Was there for 5 years and every local or other American I ran into say Hoo-stun. The Mexicans tended to be a mix of You-stun and Hugh-stun though. But we digress... Sounds like we lived there for pretty much same length of time, so bang goes my "I lived there, so I know what I'm talking about and you don't" argument Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_bolton Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 (edited) Part of my issue with these discussions are posts like this. To label the collective opinion of 300 million people on a complex issue as nothing more than 'utterly moronic' shows a lack of understanding of any nuance or complexity in the issue. It's nice that you see simple black and white patterns in things like this, but most people realise it's not that simple, and we'd like to have a discussion about it please. We have a difference here. You seem to object to me labelling a view 'moronic' because it's held by lots of people. How many people are required to protect a view from being labelled 'moronic'? You also seem to be implying that all of these 300 million people have a deep understanding of the issue at hand. I'd argue that's incredibly optimistic and akin to Rangers fans arguing that your average pished up bigot using the f-word is clued up on the history of Irish politics. At what point do you accept that it's utterly bizarre for lots of people to support the possession of something that kills loads of people? EDIT: Also, I think it's fair to say that you have wilfully simplified my earlier post. That's up to you. Edited January 8, 2016 by michael_bolton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rab Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Cologne events would not have happened in the US......... No, this guy is trolling..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Gordons Gloves Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 I've also lived in the US and i don't really agree with any of that. I don't think that there are vast cultural differences between us and them. We have or had, similar religious background, lots of immigration and very similar pop culture tastes. I was only there for a year in the Pacific Northwest and I never saw a gun and didn't know anyone who owned a gun apart from some Alaskan hunter types. Nearly everyone i knew was hugely against guns. Then i spent some time in Texas and New Mexico. It was gun central in both of those states. The attitude seemed to be "I'm allowed a gun so I'll have a gun" along with "they can come and try to take them from me." There's no logical reason for owning a handgun so they must just like guns and want to own them because they can. The people in Northwest were no different to European people in their attitudes. The people in Texas and New Mexico were way into guns and Jesus. Very strange dichotomy. Cosa - i'm not going to discount your experiences but i disagree around the point being that the UK and US don't have vast cultural differences. I live in what is a very liberal state (despite being in the midwest) and i've traveled to 38 states - not just for a day trip either. Below are my examples of the cultural differences between the US and the UK. Religion - massive here, with over 70% of Americans identifying as Christians. I don't just mean they say they're christian - they're actual churchgoers and hold their beliefs strongly. Compare that to less than 50% of the UK population. Social Conscience - the UK has a far more socialistic (not socialist) dna. In the US it's about the American dream. Hunting - we have a cabin in NW Wisconsin and during deer season i see deer strapped to the roofs of cars, in the back of pick ups (scenes repeated across the states). In the UK - hunting is seen as a 'rich' persons sport. Here it's the opposite. Guns - been mentioned on here i think Abortion/Stem Cell research - compare the attitudes of the 2 countries. That's just a few. You talk about the Pacific NW, which has a northern european heritage so it's similar to the UK in some respects, if you were in Seattle or Portland then yes - they're very liberal cities, the rural areas of the PNW are very different in their views on guns etc. Most large US cities tend to me more liberal than the rural areas. As i said - there are large cultural differences between here and the UK, the gun mentality is one massive example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watt-Zeefuik Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Cosa - i'm not going to discount your experiences but i disagree around the point being that the UK and US don't have vast cultural differences. I live in what is a very liberal state (despite being in the midwest) and i've traveled to 38 states - not just for a day trip either. Below are my examples of the cultural differences between the US and the UK. Religion - massive here, with over 70% of Americans identifying as Christians. I don't just mean they say they're christian - they're actual churchgoers and hold their beliefs strongly. Compare that to less than 50% of the UK population. Social Conscience - the UK has a far more socialistic (not socialist) dna. In the US it's about the American dream. Hunting - we have a cabin in NW Wisconsin and during deer season i see deer strapped to the roofs of cars, in the back of pick ups (scenes repeated across the states). In the UK - hunting is seen as a 'rich' persons sport. Here it's the opposite. Guns - been mentioned on here i think Abortion/Stem Cell research - compare the attitudes of the 2 countries. That's just a few. You talk about the Pacific NW, which has a northern european heritage so it's similar to the UK in some respects, if you were in Seattle or Portland then yes - they're very liberal cities, the rural areas of the PNW are very different in their views on guns etc. Most large US cities tend to me more liberal than the rural areas. As i said - there are large cultural differences between here and the UK, the gun mentality is one massive example. I'd say you're accurate for the most part (except for church attendance, where it's just a matter of your numbers. 39% actually attending services regularly in the US, compared to 12% in the UK https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_attendance). Two things I'd add -- first, another difference between the US and the UK is labor/trade union membership (11% of the workforce in the US compared to 24% in the UK). Second, proximity to large cities, which for most of the UK population is a given, is much less in the US. Although the population of the US is very urbanized, a lot of those are in smaller cities that sit by themselves, rather than an hours drive from another large city, as things are in the UK. I would say if you compared just the northeast of the Us to the UK, it would be very similar along all of the differences you've outlined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Gin Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 12% in the UK https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_attendance). Not long until it is completely dead. Couple more generations should see the back of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Draper Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Not long until it is completely dead. Couple more generations should see the back of it. One should do it, really. And thank goodness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrRobbo10 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Not long until it is completely dead. Couple more generations should see the back of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosanostra Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Cosa - i'm not going to discount your experiences but i disagree around the point being that the UK and US don't have vast cultural differences. I live in what is a very liberal state (despite being in the midwest) and i've traveled to 38 states - not just for a day trip either. Below are my examples of the cultural differences between the US and the UK. I've been to about 30 states but I've probably only spent about a year and a half over there, a good amount of which was holiday time so my frame of reference is way less than yours obviously. Religion - massive here, with over 70% of Americans identifying as Christians. I don't just mean they say they're christian - they're actual churchgoers and hold their beliefs strongly. Compare that to less than 50% of the UK population. I don't believe that 70% of Americans are church-goers. I met countless people over there and keep in touch with many. I can't think of a single American person that I know that is a church-goer. Anecdotal based on my experience but 70% seems completely implausible. It's also the same or similar religion that I'd imagine your 50% of UK people identify with. All your saying is that 20% more people identify with the same religion. They are more religious on the whole but that's not a great difference culturally as it's the same religion largely. Social Conscience - the UK has a far more socialistic (not socialist) dna. In the US it's about the American dream. Yeah, I agree with that. We are more into workers rights and social fairness. American's largely support the underdog that makes something of themselves. They are more capitalist than us certainly. Hunting - we have a cabin in NW Wisconsin and during deer season i see deer strapped to the roofs of cars, in the back of pick ups (scenes repeated across the states). In the UK - hunting is seen as a 'rich' persons sport. Here it's the opposite. The UK has plenty of hunters and I don't agree that it's seen as a rich persons sport. My dad and all of his friends had shotguns and rifles when I was a kid so I'm used to people shooting pheasants, partridge, rabbits, woodcock and such like. I used to go beating for them for ?20 a day as a kid. None of those guys were rich. Maybe fox-hunting and poncing around the countryside with foxhounds is a rich persons sport but not regular hunting. Guns - been mentioned on here i think Abortion/Stem Cell research - compare the attitudes of the 2 countries. Aren't they both legal in both countries? I understand that they are more contentious issues in the US due to the lunatic religious fringe groups and larger membership of religious groups. That's just a few. You talk about the Pacific NW, which has a northern european heritage so it's similar to the UK in some respects, if you were in Seattle or Portland then yes - they're very liberal cities, the rural areas of the PNW are very different in their views on guns etc. Most large US cities tend to me more liberal than the rural areas. You could be right but I'm unsure. I spent some time in rural Oregon and Washington but it was mostly outdoorsy, beardy, hill-walker and country sport types that I met. I had to go south to meet the gun-toting, Jesus loving Americans. I mean hand-gun btw. As i said - there are large cultural differences between here and the UK, the gun mentality is one massive example. So all you've really said is that they largely have a more extreme view of our traditional state religion, they are typically more into it and they like money / success / materialism more. I still don't accept the vast cultural differences that you speak of. They obviously have more variation of immigrant cultures than we do. They have way more large immigrant populations than we do. I'll admit that they have more individual cultures but their traditional English speaking, Christian, family based, hard-working values are quite similar to traditional British values. They just have a love of guns as it was part of their history in achieving independence and no-one was brave or powerful enough to deal with the problem at a time when it was manageable and now it's grown to behemoth proportions and almost unmanageable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalamazoo Jambo Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 At least 4 dead in shootings in apparently related incidents in Kalamazoo tonight, including 3 at a restaurant that we go to regularly, only a couple of miles from our house. Early reports suggest that the shootings may be indiscriminate. Police are searching for a white male in his 50s. A little too close to home Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalamazoo Jambo Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 At least 4 dead in shootings in apparently related incidents in Kalamazoo tonight, including 3 at a restaurant that we go to regularly, only a couple of miles from our house. Early reports suggest that the shootings may be indiscriminate. Police are searching for a white male in his 50s. A little too close to home At least 5 dead, several more injured. Apparently one of the victims was 8 years old. A suspect is in custody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 At least 5 dead, several more injured. Apparently one of the victims was 8 years old. A suspect is in custody.Horrendous. Tooling up the 8 year old would have saved him though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck berrys hairline Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 At least 4 dead in shootings in apparently related incidents in Kalamazoo tonight, including 3 at a restaurant that we go to regularly, only a couple of miles from our house. Early reports suggest that the shootings may be indiscriminate. Police are searching for a white male in his 50s. A little too close to home Stay safe Kalamazoo, what goes through someone's mind when they're popping an eight year old? Was it a revenge hit you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalamazoo Jambo Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Stay safe Kalamazoo, what goes through someone's mind when they're popping an eight year old? Was it a revenge hit you think? Seven dead now. It appears the shootings were completely random. Found out that one of the victims was a friend of a friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyBatistuta Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 45yr old Jason Dalton?seems he was just driving round randomly shooting innocent people. Horrific Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Seven dead now. It appears the shootings were completely random. Found out that one of the victims was a friend of a friend. Jeez, well thoughts are with the community, I'm sure there are tough times to come Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Phamism Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Seven dead now. It appears the shootings were completely random. Found out that one of the victims was a friend of a friend. Oh dear. Not good KJ. Different feelings when it happens in your own back yard (as per Dunblane). I wonder how local attitudes to Gun Control will change now. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Oh dear. Not good KJ. Different feelings when it happens in your own back yard (as per Dunblane). I wonder how local attitudes to Gun Control will change now. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Slightly off topic but it makes me wonder if there's scope for local laws to over-ride federal law and ban arms in a town in the states (assuming there was an overwhelming desire to make that happen at a local level - never going to happen, I know) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpie Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Slightly off topic but it makes me wonder if there's scope for local laws to over-ride federal law and ban arms in a town in the states (assuming there was an overwhelming desire to make that happen at a local level - never going to happen, I know) I doubt it, these things constantly as I see it go back to the Constitution and the Right to Bear Arms. Just a little comment I find interesting, Canada has Gun Control, it is pretty reasonable, prohibits all those frightening weapons that are basically manufactured for military use. For the genuine good living hunter, target shooter, provision to use and possess are available. So with all that, the police had to hold a town hall meeting in a community next to Vancouver, where residents are concerned about the shootings that occur almost nightly, and the weapons used are mainly those of a prohibited nature. Gun control is a positive step and shows official concern, that in most cases is reasonably simple to legislate. What is considerably more difficult to adjust is attitude and desire for change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvoys Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Key to this whole debate seems to me is how do you get the country to look like uk? I fear an overnight handgun ban simply wouldn't solve it. ie would Americans feel equally secure (and the perceived threat is absolutely key here) as we did post dunblane? And then, how legitimate would these feelings be? In this light the don't take guns of good guys argument seems to not be so easily dismissible. As things stand, if Im a middle American the q is do I want a gun or not when my home is burgled? Cos stats say the intruders will be armed (with unreged gun) and they also say police response time won't save my family's life. This basic q makes sense of those seemingly contradictory stats where people want to be without guns but still want one I think. And this perceived threat will always feel much scarier than if it falls into hands of my kids or what if I'm suicidal etc cos these are things your head tells you you can control. Now this is completely separate from the quasi religious attachment to constitution which really gets to heart of American identity and the incredibly strong, experienced and savvy gun lobby. No idea how they are tackled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peebo Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Key to this whole debate seems to me is how do you get the country to look like uk? I fear an overnight handgun ban simply wouldn't solve it. ie would Americans feel equally secure (and the perceived threat is absolutely key here) as we did post dunblane? And then, how legitimate would these feelings be? In this light the don't take guns of good guys argument seems to not be so easily dismissible. As things stand, if Im a middle American the q is do I want a gun or not when my home is burgled? Cos stats say the intruders will be armed (with unreged gun) and they also say police response time won't save my family's life. This basic q makes sense of those seemingly contradictory stats where people want to be without guns but still want one I think. And this perceived threat will always feel much scarier than if it falls into hands of my kids or what if I'm suicidal etc cos these are things your head tells you you can control. Now this is completely separate from the quasi religious attachment to constitution which really gets to heart of American identity and the incredibly strong, experienced and savvy gun lobby. No idea how they are tackled. Good post. As I've said before on here, the gun lobby is powerful, but so is the apparent contentment with the gun laws of millions of people who you wouldn't consider to be gun nuts. In other words, there is a significant portion of the country who happy with the current ease with which guns can be legally bought, in spite of the horrible random massacres that that facilitates, and because of the proliferation of weapons across the country. I lived in the US for about 6 years. I certainly don't like the gun laws, and they are a big reason why I don't live there any more (basically didn't want my son growing up where metal detectors were the norm in schools). However, if we'd been the victim of a home invasion, I'd have been straight down Walmart the next day to get a gun...assuming I was still alive, that is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willie wallace Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Seven dead now. It appears the shootings were completely random. Found out that one of the victims was a friend of a friend. You were the first name that came into my head when i heard the news.Glad to see you and you and your family are ok.Thoughts go out to the people who lost their lives and those injured. Shocking story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalamazoo Jambo Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Oh dear. Not good KJ. Different feelings when it happens in your own back yard (as per Dunblane). I wonder how local attitudes to Gun Control will change now. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Kalamazoo is an interesting mix of attitudes to start with. It's a college town and fairly liberal. But there's also a large population of hunters for whom gun rights are a big issue. Not sure how much this will change people's positions on the issue, as they tend to be already entrenched. And thanks to those who have sent their well wishes. Kalamazoo is a fantastic place - I just wish it was in the news for happier reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalamazoo Jambo Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 You were the first name that came into my head when i heard the news.Glad to see you and you and your family are ok.Thoughts go out to the people who lost their lives and those injured. Shocking story. Thanks. Crazily, the death toll is back to six - at least for now. A 14 year old girl was pronounced dead at the hospital, but was kept on life support so her organs could be donated. She then proceeded to squeeze her mother's hand. Really hoping that she pulls through, but seems like it's still in the balance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watt-Zeefuik Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Condolences, KJ. I'm starting to wonder if this isn't going to be a generational thing at some point. I haven't seen any data on support for gun safety measures across age groups, but I'm inclined to think as the population becomes more urban, support is going to go up over time. Unfortunately, I don't think we'll see any actual policy change in the next decade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalamazoo Jambo Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Condolences, KJ. I'm starting to wonder if this isn't going to be a generational thing at some point. I haven't seen any data on support for gun safety measures across age groups, but I'm inclined to think as the population becomes more urban, support is going to go up over time. Unfortunately, I don't think we'll see any actual policy change in the next decade. Thanks for that. Appears there is to some extent a generational element but the data I have are 5 years old... http://www.pewresearch.org/files/old-assets/pdf/gun-control-2011.pdf Edit: probably not surprising, but also big splits by gender, urban/rural (as you mentioned) and of course political affiliation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watt-Zeefuik Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Thanks for that. Appears there is to some extent a generational element but the data I have are 5 years old... http://www.pewresearch.org/files/old-assets/pdf/gun-control-2011.pdf Nice, thanks for finding that. This is a big part of it right here, I think -- urban populations support gun control 57-38, rural populations oppose it 63-33. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Jimbo Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 I wonder if she's still so pro gun now? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-35767484 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambof3tornado Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 I wonder if she's still so pro gun now? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-35767484 Pretty sure gun control means not allowing a toddler in the back seat of your car to shoot you whilst you drive. Guns and idiots dont mix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalamazoo Jambo Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 On 21/02/2016 at 16:47, Kalamazoo Jambo said: Thanks. Crazily, the death toll is back to six - at least for now. A 14 year old girl was pronounced dead at the hospital, but was kept on life support so her organs could be donated. She then proceeded to squeeze her mother's hand. Really hoping that she pulls through, but seems like it's still in the balance. Update on this story. The shooter, Jason Dalton, has pleaded guilty (against the advice of his lawyer) to six counts of murder, two counts of attempted murder and eight counts of felony use of a firearm. I believe he'll probably get life without parole (Michigan doesn't have the death penalty). https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/michigan-uber-driver-jason-dalton-pleads-guilty-kalamazoo-shooting-spree-n955716 Also, the then 14-year old girl who was initially pronounced dead, Abigail Kopf, did survive, but has had a pretty hard path these last couple of years... https://people.com/human-interest/abigail-kopf-attends-homecoming-survivor-kalamazoo-uber-shooting-spree/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Tarkin Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 15 hours ago, Kalamazoo Jambo said: Also, the then 14-year old girl who was initially pronounced dead, Abigail Kopf, did survive, but has had a pretty hard path these last couple of years... https://people.com/human-interest/abigail-kopf-attends-homecoming-survivor-kalamazoo-uber-shooting-spree/ Heartbreaking stuff. All the best to the wee lassie and her family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/feb/03/four-year-old-shoots-mother-face-gun-mattress Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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