JamboX2 Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 The Tories today announced: Devolution of business rates to cities Increased powers for local government An infrastructure committee to coordinated UK infrastructure programs. All of which were Labour manifesto commitments. So have the Tories won power but lost the argument here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rand Paul's Ray Bans Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 They won a majority at the GE, so they haven't lost the argument. It's all about winning voters they may feel alienated by Corbyn and co; dominating the centre for whoever is elected leader for 2020. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaymarketJambo Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 They won the GE fair and square and Labour lost the election fair and square. And with Corbyn as Labour Party Leader I suspect there is a very good chance the Conservatives might increase their majority in 5 years time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glamorgan Jambo Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 A determined effort by Osborne to grab some of the 'Blair' labour voters. As happens so often will go down like a lead balloon with party activists (I see Fraser Nelson's in a tizzy about it) but will be well liked by voters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leginten Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Tories and journalists egged and spat on by the mob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peebo Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 They won the election pretty easily, but saw almost two thirds of the voting electorate vote for other parties. So aye, there is plenty for them to go after, in terms of the voters in the centre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psychedelicropcircle Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 The Tories today announced: Devolution of business rates to cities Increased powers for local government An infrastructure committee to coordinated UK infrastructure programs. All of which were Labour manifesto commitments. So have the Tories won power but lost the argument here? He was saying he'd hold the conservative door open to labour voters seen a JC has time travelled to the 80's....gonna walk though it X2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingantti1874 Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Tories and journalists egged and spat on by the mob. Arseholes blaming others for their own failure in life... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leginten Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Arseholes blaming others for their own failure in life...Personally I'm looking forward to the condemnation of the Nazi tactics of the Left by those who were apoplectic with rage when the Big Hitter was egged in Kirkcaldy during the referendum campaign. Amazed that this could happen on the genteel streets of England - we were assured that it was only nasty little Scotland where this sort of thing went on. It'll be nothing whatsoever to do with Labour, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted October 5, 2015 Author Share Posted October 5, 2015 He was saying he'd hold the conservative door open to labour voters seen a JC has time travelled to the 80's....gonna walk though it X2? No. I wouldn't personally do that. But it is interesting that now that the Chancellor has adopted Labour policies he and the SNP are sharing policies when it comes to major areas of tax and spend. On top of the commitment on council tax, they now also share commitments on infrastructure, devolution of economic taxation and low rates. I'm sure the Finance Minister will be opening his arms at the news today! A determined effort by Osborne to grab some of the 'Blair' labour voters. As happens so often will go down like a lead balloon with party activists (I see Fraser Nelson's in a tizzy about it) but will be well liked by voters. Yeah I suspect that the blue rinse mob are in a tiz about this. If anything it shows Labour needs to be more astute to Conservative policy being nimble enough to be amended and to include their own positions. I suspect that Labour will now have to set it's stall out in protecting working families soon to be affected by tax credit changes and other policies affecting welfare. Which, if Osbourne plows on will damage the Tories in a way which the poll tax did - ie affecting those it should be popular with adversely - sadly I think Osbourne will be quick to stamp that out. They won the GE fair and square and Labour lost the election fair and square. And with Corbyn as Labour Party Leader I suspect there is a very good chance the Conservatives might increase their majority in 5 years time? Not disputing their win. What I'm saying is that by adopting overt Labour policy, backed by the SNP, in May, they are showing an astuteness that their own plans weren't (a) ambitious enough and ( b ) failed to view devolution, infrastructure and tax changes in the round. In doing so they won an election, but seem to have acknowledged their plans were not as complete or good as they hoped. My fear is that unless the Tories implode over Europe then we may well face a situation whereby a canny Osbourne adopts policies which alienate Labour from their own supporters and voting bases and block their alternative gaining traction. What I think Labour need to do to avoid a defeat in 2015 is target policies which will impact people's day to day lives - tax credits and working welfare - as if the Tories take their eyes off the ball there they will face a collapse in support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted October 5, 2015 Author Share Posted October 5, 2015 The powers in relation to business rates isn't all it that seems. Cities have the power to lower the rates only, should they seek to increase them then they need a consensus and permission, effectively, from the businesses effected. More smoke and mirrors from the pig molesters. I agree with you there, and it would make sense to allow the power to set the rate as wished by local people at local elections. It is still a first step in devolving huge amounts of money to cities to do as they wish with. The billions it releases to local government could be transformative for some areas. And clearly something needs to be done to re-balance the North-South divide. Localism like that is something we equally need to see in Scotland so we can see local authorities do more for their people directly than wait for John Swinney or whoever holds the Finance Minister briefcase to allocate money from St Andrew's House. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo1185 Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Is the reason they cant unilaterally raise rates not because what happened last time in certain places when this power existed pre-Thatcher reforms, such as in Liverpool, where they local council went bonkers, kept raising the rate and eventually drove business away and put the area into a massive depression? I think the intention is for additional flexibility where there is an elected mayor too, they can raise up to a certain threshold. Be interesting to see how the SNP react given devolving powers locally is the complete opposite of how they go about their business. Also its not exactly the same as Labour policy, which was only for the additional revenue to be kept by local authorities. Osbornes plan mean they keep everything. Osborne said clearly that they will take other parties ideas if they think they are good. I'd suggest that is grown up politics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinnybob72 Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Does that mean Edinburgh Clowncil will get their hands on even more cash to pour down the big tram hole? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo1185 Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Does that mean Edinburgh Clowncil will get their hands on even more cash to pour down the big tram hole? No, it doesn't apply in Scotland. This is a devolved area so its up to the Scottish Government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 whatever happens will happen but for now they have a small majority and are vulnerable to splits or rebellions will depend on not having to face any divisive crises but Europe is still their major problem it could still get very messy poor Ed Milliband getting half his policies taken up with no credit. Such is the middle ground consensus now of course potentially broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gashauskis9 Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 They won the GE fair and square and Labour lost the election fair and square. And with Corbyn as Labour Party Leader I suspect there is a very good chance the Conservatives might increase their majority in 5 years time? This. Without a strong Lib Dem presence, expect the blairites and those close to the centre to side with Cameron over the Socialist. Could be one of the biggest majorities ever witnessed at a GE. I fear for the UK politically, reckon we're heading straight into bouts of extremism like we saw in the late 70s early 80s (hard left, hard right and feck all in the middle). Immigration debate isn't going to do this any favours either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 This. Without a strong Lib Dem presence, expect the blairites and those close to the centre to side with Cameron over the Socialist. Could be one of the biggest majorities ever witnessed at a GE. I fear for the UK politically, reckon we're heading straight into bouts of extremism like we saw in the late 70s early 80s (hard left, hard right and feck all in the middle). Immigration debate isn't going to do this any favours either. Ironically, it's the right that have caused this shift, yet the electorate seem to lap it up. So much so that the centre isn't really the centre anymore. Rather, it is centre right because that's where the political narrative has taken us. The fact you use the word Socialist as a negative, almost pejorative, word kind of says it all. Don't get me wrong, you're entitled to your opinion (obviously) but what you have done is exactly what the media do. Corbyn is referred to as "hard left". Why don't we hear or read about Cameron's "right wing government"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hasselhoff Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Saw a comment online from a woman on a video of people chanting Tory Scum in Manchester where she said that the protests showed that hardly anyone voted Tory and that the GE and Indyref were both rigged. She will continue to be surprised when the silent vote again. Did like Boris Johnson's joke about the crowd being very welcoming shouting "Tories, come! Tories, come!" Anyone spitting at others has no right to accuse anyone else of being scum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GforGallo Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Down in Manchester at the moment (unrelated) and quite enjoy seeing the headcases outside the convention screaming and shouting at people. They're all absolutely bonkers without exception. Went to a fringe event with Damian Hinds at it. He spoke well but said little. He moves his hands like he's playing a trombone when he speaks though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo1185 Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 This. Without a strong Lib Dem presence, expect the blairites and those close to the centre to side with Cameron over the Socialist. Could be one of the biggest majorities ever witnessed at a GE. I fear for the UK politically, reckon we're heading straight into bouts of extremism like we saw in the late 70s early 80s (hard left, hard right and feck all in the middle). Immigration debate isn't going to do this any favours either. Osborne is all about controlling the centre and he and Cameron have explicitly rejected calls from some to use this as a mandate to move right. Any "extremism" from the right will come from UKIP sweeping up Labours former heartlands in poorer areas in the North where they came second in May, not the Tories who want to swallow up the centre and take all the New Labour support so that when Labour try to shift back (if they try) they find the Tories already there. Osborne wouldn't be talking about winning over people who didnt vote for them but still voted Labour if he was pitching further right. He also wouldn't be nabbing Labour and Lib Dem policy ideas to root them further into the centre. Anyone in any doubt about how the Tories are moving needs to watch the Good Right debate from Sunday evening on YouTube or check out what Gove was saying to the Bright Blue Drink Tank event last night. Boris is likely to critise the tax credit changes today, which is great news. Many Tory MPs planned to oppose that vote and would have defeated it but didn't following assurances from Osborne it was being looked at. If nothing comes in the Autumn statement it could escalate. Davidson is also positioning herself to oppose, and I suspect we might get some info on using the new top up welfare powers to deal with this, alongside her announcement to increase carers allowance. Welsh Tories also looking increasingly likely to make unhappy noises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Saw a comment online from a woman on a video of people chanting Tory Scum in Manchester where she said that the protests showed that hardly anyone voted Tory and that the GE and Indyref were both rigged. She will continue to be surprised when the silent vote again. Did like Boris Johnson's joke about the crowd being very welcoming shouting "Tories, come! Tories, come!" Anyone spitting at others has no right to accuse anyone else of being scum. Spot on. Whatever point these people thought they were making backfired spectacularly. Spitting and throwing eggs at people while accusing them of being scum doesn't help your cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GforGallo Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 I'm glad that you find amusement in the suffering of others. How very Tory of you. Emm I'm not a tory, I vote green and voted yes. Hence the (unrelated) in my post. I'm not delighting in the suffering of others, I just find people prancing around outside a conference Hall in v for vendetta masks shouting stupid insults funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reaths17 Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34445379 it's not just here, where the people have had enough and violence is getting itself involved in politics. return to the dark days of the 70's,80's where politics was on the verge of collapse or maybe even worse . its happened along the whole north coast of Africa not guaranteed western Europe will escape. corbyn is that radical face that's been waiting for this situation, where people will look for something different after years of sameness from the career politicians we've had for about 20 odd years now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34445379 it's not just here, where the people have had enough and violence is getting itself involved in politics. return to the dark days of the 70's,80's where politics was on the verge of collapse or maybe even worse . its happened along the whole north coast of Africa not guaranteed western Europe will escape. corbyn is that radical face that's been waiting for this situation, where people will look for something different after years of sameness from the career politicians we've had for about 20 odd years now The thing is there wasn't enough of them to help Labour a couple of months ago in the General Election, so its a tad optimistic to think things will be better for Labour in 5 years time - a disunited party where most of the cabinet disagrees with the direction the leader wants to go in! It seems a significant number want to go back to the Tony Blair New Labour approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 The thing is there wasn't enough of them to help Labour a couple of months ago in the General Election, so its a tad optimistic to think things will be better for Labour in 5 years time - a disunited party where most of the cabinet disagrees with the direction the leader wants to go in! It seems a significant number want to go back to the Tony Blair New Labour approach. A disunited party or a disunited Parliamentary Party? After all, Corbyn won by a landslide in the leadership election. This suggests to me that the party in all its form is behind him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reaths17 Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 The thing is there wasn't enough of them to help Labour a couple of months ago in the General Election, so its a tad optimistic to think things will be better for Labour in 5 years time - a disunited party where most of the cabinet disagrees with the direction the leader wants to go in! It seems a significant number want to go back to the Tony Blair New Labour approach. look at the shed, the amount of stories about corruption, awful management of the country, scandal after scandal, links to scandals. its not people voting for labour that's a problem, it's getting enough hating politics. with corbyn spouting his radical ideas, the situation is similar to that, that made the rising in Egypt/lybia etc. disenfranchised people and it needn't be a large majority, or a winning margin, can cause havoc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jam Tarts 1874 Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 The BBC coverage of the tory conference so far looks a little strange compared to the hostile micro-examination of every word and facial expression during the Labour conference a few days ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jam Tarts 1874 Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 look at the shed, the amount of stories about corruption, awful management of the country, scandal after scandal, links to scandals. its not people voting for labour that's a problem, it's getting enough hating politics. with corbyn spouting his radical ideas, the situation is similar to that, that made the rising in Egypt/lybia etc. disenfranchised people and it needn't be a large majority, or a winning margin, can cause havoc I think that's a bit of a stretch to compare a small handful of overly eager and misguided students with what happened in Egypt/Lbya etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reaths17 Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 I think that's a bit of a stretch to compare a small handful of overly eager and misguided students with what happened in Egypt/Lbya etc. what if in 6 months time its doubled, what if it doubles again, what if some radical gets them all to listen, what if other factions join. abu hamza among others managed to enrol terrorists for allah from a predominately Christian country with hardly any publicity, imagine someone with backing trying to get the disenfranchised mobil. being smug about shit rulers is what leads to anarchy. france, Germany, spain, Greece have all had troubles with crowds baying for blood, it's not isolated in Britain. that latest one in france was particularly nasty looking. theres many learned people saying the EU is on the verge, nothing stopping that being localised to a country/area. this migration is adding to the financial turmoil in most countries as well just saying, it's not beyond the realms of possibility, even if very hypothetical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maroonlegions Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 The BBC coverage of the tory conference so far looks a little strange compared to the hostile micro-examination of every word and facial expression during the Labour conference a few days ago. Bias Broadcasting Company= BBC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maroonlegions Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Handicapped/disabled and pensioners protesting about cuts to their welfare benefits shock. Anyone one who targets the above groups of vulnerable people deserved to be called scum in my eyes, they hide behind their spin and national deficit pesh in order to try and justify these attacks on the vulnerable, bunch of cowards. The nature of their oppression of the vulnerable is the reason for all this anger. Boris Johnson gets belted with balls by handicapped/disabled protesters, thats funny. The real scum are always closer to home. Take this utter disrespectful quote made by the Taxpayers alliance. Taxpayers? Alliance: ?Cut pensioner benefits now ? they?ll be dead in 2020 anyway? "Following on from the Torygraph?s revelation that Conservatives believe us all to be selfish, backstabbing and stupid, here?s the Tory-supporting Taxpayers? Alliance, displaying all three of those qualities at once". http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2015/10/05/taxpayers-alliance-cut-pensioner-benefits-now-theyll-be-dead-in-2020-anyway/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddiemac Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Spot on. Whatever point these people thought they were making backfired spectacularly. Spitting and throwing eggs at people while accusing them of being scum doesn't help your cause. eh could never happen in scotland! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 eh could never happen in scotland! You lot slam SNP supporters during the Referendum but this crowd of nutters were more dangerous. Unlike you I form my own opinion on politics. My biggest regret was voting for Labour in 97 only to see them become the same as the Tories, except without any financial aptitude or moral compass (e.g. Iraq). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psychedelicropcircle Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Anyone have any idea the population percentage of folks who'll be ?1300 light if they do away with tax credits? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboGraham Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Anyone have any idea the population percentage of folks who'll be ?1300 light if they do away with tax credits? Telegraph quotes "3.7 million families" but I don't know % of overall UK families that figure represents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted October 6, 2015 Author Share Posted October 6, 2015 You lot slam SNP supporters during the Referendum but this crowd of nutters were more dangerous. Unlike you I form my own opinion on politics. My biggest regret was voting for Labour in 97 only to see them become the same as the Tories, except without any financial aptitude or moral compass (e.g. Iraq). To be honest, I think the Tories moved to be more like Labour and have since 2012(ish) began to move right again. Cameron began to adopt Labour positions off Blair around 2006/7 and this trend continued on up to 2010. The Labour Party under Blair started quite left of centre on a huge swaths of issues - constitutional reform, minimum wage, health care, educational investment, tax credits and poverty alleviation. Iraq war aside, many of Blair's domestic reforms (and Browns economic ones) were in step with the centre left in both Nordic and Western Europe - pro-business, free schools etc - many of these policies have subsequently become core to the SNP and other parties. The Tories followed Labour left and have now retrenched back right during their coalition. It's only really been the economic catastrophe in the banking and world economy which has decimated the centre left parties across Europe and forced them back further left. In Scotland, the debate began about reform of public services and the state (both largely unreformed for 30 plus years in Scotland), this stalled over independence and, to me, this has made our views on reform down south peculiar. After all, the SNP oppose most things which occurred (for justifiable reasons) under Blair in health and education but those policies are more in step with wider European trends than the centralising tedencies of Scottish politics. What I'm saying I suppose is, what Cameron is talking about - decentralising and handing power to people and local government - is, to me, naturally more a left of centre view point than a centre right one. Socialism, is at a base point, about empowering people and communities to shape their surroundings and environment. That can play out in different ways and depends on a lot, but aside from major differences on welfare and immigration, justice and defence, you could argue current Tory policy on where power lies and how public services are shaped are legacies of a social democratic Blair Labour Party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niblick1874 Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 People thinking that it makes any difference who says and does what in politics, then letting the usual suspects on here go on and on as if it does makes a difference not seeing them for what they are. Have a word. Sorry, this should be on the, there I said it thread. Then again, maybe not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GforGallo Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Anyone have any idea the population percentage of folks who'll be ?1300 light if they do away with tax credits? I don't think they're doing away with them, merely cutting them to the bone. I'll personally be about ?50 a week worse off! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nookie Bear Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Handicapped/disabled and pensioners protesting about cuts to their welfare benefits shock. Taxpayers? Alliance: ?Cut pensioner benefits now ? they?ll be dead in 2020 anyway? "Following on from the Torygraph?s revelation that Conservatives believe us all to be selfish, backstabbing and stupid, here?s the Tory-supporting Taxpayers? Alliance, displaying all three of those qualities at once". http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2015/10/05/taxpayers-alliance-cut-pensioner-benefits-now-theyll-be-dead-in-2020-anyway/ Pretty much what a lot of SNP supporters, and a couple of their potential MP's, say about NO voters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 The BBC coverage of the tory conference so far looks a little strange compared to the hostile micro-examination of every word and facial expression during the Labour conference a few days ago. In fairness, there's less to scrutinise. The Tories' plans are pretty clear and explicit. Their policies are all laid out. Labour's situation at the moment involves far more politics, internal and external Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo1185 Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Davidson was outstanding. Cameron stomping all over the centre ground now as well. May's speech looking increasingly ill-advised. It was awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussieh Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Pretty much what a lot of SNP supporters, and a couple of their potential MP's, say about NO voters.A no vote, was effectively a vote for Conservative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Davidson was outstanding. Cameron stomping all over the centre ground now as well. May's speech looking increasingly ill-advised. It was awful. Except it isn't the centre ground. What the "centre ground" refers to now is still right of the "real" centre because that is the way the political and economic narrative has gone over the last 30 years. This is why Corbyn is referred to as hard left. He isn't. He is left of (the "real") centre but that isn't hard left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 "In her speech to conference, Ms Davidson said the Scottish Conservatives were the party who represented the two million Scots who chose to back the Union." I suspect this may come back to bite her! From the BBC http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-34459456 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaymarketJambo Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 "In her speech to conference, Ms Davidson said the Scottish Conservatives were the party who represented the two million Scots who chose to back the Union." I suspect this may come back to bite her! From the BBC http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-34459456 Did she mention how many seats she thought that the Scottish Conservatives could win in next year's Scottish Elections? If I remember in this year's General Election for Westminster, Ms Davidson seemed to be kind of confident that her party would take some seats from the SNP and the Scottish Lib Dems, well that back-fired big time then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psychedelicropcircle Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 "In her speech to conference, Ms Davidson said the Scottish Conservatives were the party who represented the two million Scots who chose to back the Union." I suspect this may come back to bite her! From the BBC http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-34459456 That link doesn't work are you sure it's not this one? Www.dreamonyac**t.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 That link doesn't work are you sure it's not this one? Www.dreamonyac**t.com Arf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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