Gods and Generals/Gettysburg

[Guest Freewheelin' Jambo]

Just watched these two films again over the weekend.

 

Both absolutely brilliant.

 

Gods and Generals had Robert Duval as Robert E Lee, he was great, but I thought Martin Sheen in Gettysburg exuded more serenity and saintliness as him. Jeff Daniels proved he is a class actor also. Hard to believe the same actor could play the complete twonk in "Dumb and Dumber" but could play Joshua Chamberlain so well that you can't imagine anyone else doing it better.

 

Gettysburg was the better of the two I think. All the cast were brilliant, Tom Berenger, Stephen Lang ( who was also Stonewall Jackson in Generals,) Sam Elliot, etc. I also noticed George Lazenby as the Confederate General Johnson Pettigrew and he was quite good for all he had to do.

 

For me the star turn was the late great Richard Jordan as Lo Armistead. Apparently Jordan was very ill while making the film and sadly died of a brain tumor not long after the film was completed. His final scene in the film must be one of the most poignant ever. He was a great actor also.

 

The battle scenes were immense particularly Chancellorsville in Generals and Picket's Charge. Really impressive.

 

If you have not seen these films get them asap. Both truly great.

[vegas-voss]

Just watched these two films again over the weekend.

 

Both absolutely brilliant.

 

Gods and Generals had Robert Duval as Robert E Lee, he was great, but I thought Martin Sheen in Gettysburg exuded more serenity and saintliness as him. Jeff Daniels proved he is a class actor also. Hard to believe the same actor could play the complete twonk in "Dumb and Dumber" but could play Joshua Chamberlain so well that you can't imagine anyone else doing it better.

 

Gettysburg was the better of the two I think. All the cast were brilliant, Tom Berenger, Stephen Lang ( who was also Stonewall Jackson in Generals,) Sam Elliot, etc. I also noticed George Lazenby as the Confederate General Johnson Pettigrew and he was quite good for all he had to do.

 

For me the star turn was the late great Richard Jordan as Lo Armistead. Apparently Jordan was very ill while making the film and sadly died of a brain tumor not long after the film was completed. His final scene in the film must be one of the most poignant ever. He was a great actor also.

 

The battle scenes were immense particularly Chancellorsville in Generals and Picket's Charge. Really impressive.

 

If you have not seen these films get them asap. Both truly great.

 

I was going to buy Gettysburg and then get Gods and Generals on BT Vision the other week but i looked up IMDB and it totally savaged G&G so it put me right off.

[Guest Freewheelin' Jambo]

I was going to buy Gettysburg and then get Gods and Generals on BT Vision the other week but i looked up IMDB and it totally savaged G&G so it put me right off.

 

See it and decide for yourself. It focuses more on Stonewall Jackson as an individual and his religious beliefs. It is also slower but has cracking battle scenes.

 

It shows people as they truly were in those days unashamedly. That may put a lot of people off I suppose.

 

It is worth it for Stephen Lang's performance alone and also Duval as Robert E Lee.

[Ray Winstone]

How historically accurate are they?

 

Got a module on the civil war and slavery in America next year at uni so might be worth a watch.

[Guest Freewheelin' Jambo]

How historically accurate are they?

 

Got a module on the civil war and slavery in America next year at uni so might be worth a watch.

 

Gettysburg is just about the battle and is accurate.

 

Gods and Generals skirts around issues such as slavery. You are better watching "Glory" with Denzil Washingtona and Matthew Broderick which deals with Black soldiers.

 

These films thought try to make it clear that the war was not just about slavery but states rights. Not fashionable these days I suppose to say that it was about any thing other than slavery. Maybe that is why Gods and Generals was criticised.

[Ray Winstone]

Gettysburg is just about the battle and is accurate.

 

Gods and Generals skirts around issues such as slavery. You are better watching "Glory" with Denzil Washingtona and Matthew Broderick which deals with Black soldiers.

 

These films thought try to make it clear that the war was not just about slavery but states rights. Not fashionable these days I suppose to say that it was about any thing other than slavery. Maybe that is why Gods and Generals was criticised.

 

I have a copy of Glory in DVD - great movie.

 

Might source the other two in play.com or something, should be able to pick them up cheaply.

[jamboinglasgow]

Gettysburg is just about the battle and is accurate.

 

Gods and Generals skirts around issues such as slavery. You are better watching "Glory" with Denzil Washingtona and Matthew Broderick which deals with Black soldiers.

 

These films thought try to make it clear that the war was not just about slavery but states rights. Not fashionable these days I suppose to say that it was about any thing other than slavery. Maybe that is why Gods and Generals was criticised.

 

I might be doing a module next year at uni about the civil war (depends if I dont get my first choice.) I have seen about half of god's and general's and I agree it is a great historical film (though due to its length I could not see it all.)

 

As for slavery, I did a 2nd history course on america and did an essay on the causes of the war, and I would have to agree that slavery is not as important as people like to make out. What was more important was the south's fear of losing its idenity and government of which slavery played its part. It is often ignored that though the North did abolish slavery it did not have views too different from the south on attitudes towards african-american's. Though the 54th Massachusetts are an interesting read who were a black regiment who attacked fort Wagner.

[Boris]

I might be doing a module next year at uni about the civil war (depends if I dont get my first choice.) I have seen about half of god's and general's and I agree it is a great historical film (though due to its length I could not see it all.)

 

As for slavery, I did a 2nd history course on america and did an essay on the causes of the war, and I would have to agree that slavery is not as important as people like to make out. What was more important was the south's fear of losing its idenity and government of which slavery played its part. It is often ignored that though the North did abolish slavery it did not have views too different from the south on attitudes towards african-american's. Though the 54th Massachusetts are an interesting read who were a black regiment who attacked fort Wagner.

 

Slavery was merely the issue that led to the cessation of the Southern States from the Union under the guise of State's Rights i.e the notion that the Federal Govt of the US had to toe the line if inividual States thought otherwise i.e. was the USA the country or was it a (con)federation of autonomous States?

 

The above is obviously a slightly broadbrush and generalistic answer to the reasons why the American Civil War occurred.

 

Given that it wasn't until 1964 and the Civil Rights Act you can see how black Americans were really thought of by the Federal Govt.

[Guest Freewheelin' Jambo]

To round off my Civil War weekend I have just watched "Glory"

 

I has just finished a book by Thomas Buell called "The Warrior Generals: Combat Leadership in the Civil War". It focused on 6 generals, on the Reb side, Lee, Hood and Gordon and on the Fed side Grant, Thomas and Barlow. It was pretty scathing and real revisionist stuff. Buell is a former US Destroyer Commander and he let rip at the blunders made all round by the leadership in the war.

 

I found the book a bit too over the top but it had interesting points nevertheless.

 

Any one recommend some good reading? I would also recommend "The Last Full Measure" by Jeff Shaara which is the final book in the Gettysburg/Gods and Generals trilogy

[jamboinglasgow]

Slavery was merely the issue that led to the cessation of the Southern States from the Union under the guise of State's Rights i.e the notion that the Federal Govt of the US had to toe the line if inividual States thought otherwise i.e. was the USA the country or was it a (con)federation of autonomous States?

 

The above is obviously a slightly broadbrush and generalistic answer to the reasons why the American Civil War occurred.

 

Given that it wasn't until 1964 and the Civil Rights Act you can see how black Americans were really thought of by the Federal Govt.

 

I know it is, but if I was to say what the reasons for the start of the civil war I would need to put a whole essay in. Its very complex.

[ToadKiller Dog]

Have not seen gods and generals, but both Glory and gettysburg are well worth watching.

 

on a tangent this thread has brought back memories of sneeking the old black and white portable to watch the TV series north and south as a kid in the 80s(i would have been around 12/13) ,cant remember how factual it was but i enjoyed it ,Kirsty Alley gave a great performance ,Also had an early twitching for the evil sister of the south family.

[Boris]

Have not seen gods and generals, but both Glory and gettysburg are well worth watching.

 

on a tangent this thread has brought back memories of sneeking the old black and white portable to watch the TV series north and south as a kid in the 80s(i would have been around 12/13) ,cant remember how factual it was but i enjoyed it ,Kirsty Alley gave a great performance ,Also had an early twitching for the evil sister of the south family.

 

LOL - George Hazard & Orey Maine!

 

There was a mini series on the BBC called the Blue & The Grey (iirc) - Stacy Keatch was in it. That was much better.

 

The North & South was just a bit too "Catherine Cookson" for my liking...

 

You're not wrong re the evil sister of the Southern family though!

[vegas-voss]

Have not seen gods and generals, but both Glory and gettysburg are well worth watching.

 

on a tangent this thread has brought back memories of sneeking the old black and white portable to watch the TV series north and south as a kid in the 80s(i would have been around 12/13) ,cant remember how factual it was but i enjoyed it ,Kirsty Alley gave a great performance ,Also had an early twitching for the evil sister of the south family.

 

Lesley-Anne Down ?

[ToadKiller Dog]

There was a mini series on the BBC called the Blue & The Grey (iirc) - Stacy Keatch was in it. That was much better.

Never saw that one ,when was that ,Keatch certainly had the tash for the era.

[Coco]

I watched Ride With The Devil the other week.

 

Quite enjoyed it - especially Jewel:dribble:

[Boris]

Never saw that one ,when was that ,Keatch certainly had the tash for the era.

 

Early 80's

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blue_and_the_Gray

[ToadKiller Dog]

Early 80's

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blue_and_the_Gray

 

I would have been into more heavy drama like the Incredible hulk and the dukes of hazard at that time.

[Guest Freewheelin' Jambo]

LOL - George Hazard & Orey Maine!

 

There was a mini series on the BBC called the Blue & The Grey (iirc) - Stacy Keatch was in it. That was much better.

 

The North & South was just a bit too "Catherine Cookson" for my liking...

 

You're not wrong re the evil sister of the Southern family though!

 

The Blue and the Grey was excellent and I remember the Wilderness and First Bull Run were well filmed.

 

North and South was bilge. Hollywood historical garbage at its worst.

[ToadKiller Dog]

North and South was bilge. Hollywood historical garbage at its worst.

 

yes you are right it was more of a dynasty/dallas set during the civil war rather than a factual historical drama and was full of 80s morality ,still enjoyed it as a kid .

[Boris]

I would have been into more heavy drama like the Incredible hulk and the dukes of hazard at that time.

 

I was only about 10 or 11 myself...

 

There is a bit in it that freaked me out though. The Stacy Keach character has a vision about Lincoln's assissination and they place coins on the eyes of the corpse.

 

That spooked me big time...

[Tom Heaney]

Glory is a fantastic movie (as is Gettysburg). For the most part Gettysburg is more "famous" for obvious reasons, but if you need convincing to go watch Glory then have a wee peek at this

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glory_%28film%29