ArcticJambo Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 It's trolling. On a different note, I always find it funny when people (Man U/Madrid fans/trolls) bring up the old Ronaldo is better than Messi chat. There's a constant argument over wether Messi is the best player ever to have lived, yet no one thinks Ronaldo is - so how can CR be better than Messi? It's a shame for Ronaldo, if he had been born in a different generation then he would be head and shoulders the best in the world, but Messi is a just a different breed. Guess he gets the benefit of the doubt. Never really thought of it like that but quite true. Anyway, I've been wanting to add to this discussion, these general thoughts - while the golden ball was probably more deserving for a player like Rodriguez (although I only saw him a couple of times - wish I'd seen his first two games now), and Robben was dangerous throughout, it's not inconceivable that a player from the final two teams would win the gong. Going into the final who realistically had a chance from Germany - Neuer, definitely, Muller definitely, Kroos probably, Schwinesteiger probably, Schurrle possibly, Hummels possibly (have I missed any?). I'll include Mascherano alongside them (probably). In the final itself who of that German contingent had an above average performance? BS definitely, MN maybe, and AS, yes. MN getting the ode-to-the-Munsters award hasn't when it comes down to it been disputed for the most part. So they're going to pick an outfield player in all reality, and they generally tend to favour forwards. Both JM & BS spent most of their time on the back foot although the latter was obviously involved up the pitch far more as you would expect with the team possession percentages being skewed. Which leaves us with the recipient of the award - what did he do? Was he shite Was he average - no, certainly not. He was, despite the close marking, the most likely player on the park. He had few options to create (brillinat German cover, poor movement/lack of support from fellow forwards), and even fewer to create for himself (again, sterling work from the Germans - rarely was there any less than 3 defenders around him when he received). He may have been below his peak standards we've previously seen from him but by no means was he an average player out there on Sunday night. He was one of the best players, and probably teh best overall forward on the night. While I'm not convinced he should have received it, I don't think it is quite as outrageous as some, in fact many, have made out. Footnote: most of you know that while I'm a real fan of his - because he has brought me almost as much footballing joy in the last 8 years as I got in the 14 yrs of regularly watching Hearts h & a (82-96) before I left in '96 for a footballing wilderness, I still feel I can objectively assess football matches and players. He's a special player of that there is no doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
After The Watershed Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 It's trolling. On a different note, I always find it funny when people (Man U/Madrid fans/trolls) bring up the old Ronaldo is better than Messi chat. There's a constant argument over wether Messi is the best player ever to have lived, yet no one thinks Ronaldo is - so how can CR be better than Messi? It's a shame for Ronaldo, if he had been born in a different generation then he would be head and shoulders the best in the world, but Messi is a just a different breed. Constant argument wether Messi is the best player to have ever lived? Who's trolling now. Never heard anyone argue over it or suggest he is. Great player but nowhere near best ever. Think you've let someone get to you. Back on topic anyway, he was never the player of the tournament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Internet Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Why do people think that the notion of Messi being considered one of, if not the best of all time is some brand new thing? It's been going for about 3 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
After The Watershed Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Why do people think that the notion of Messi being considered one of, if not the best of all time is some brand new thing? It's been going for about 3 years I have never heard anyone suggest he is the best ever. But then again I stopped reading shoot or match years ago ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrambo Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 I have never heard anyone suggest he is the best ever. But then again I stopped reading shoot or match years ago ;-) It was mentioned multiple times on the BBCs pre and post match analysis of the World Cup final on Sunday night. Could have been past your bed time, to be fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
After The Watershed Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 It was mentioned multiple times on the BBCs pre and post match analysis of the World Cup final on Sunday night. Could have been past your bed time, to be fair. So because I think Messi is not nearly as good as Maradona or Pele I must be still in school? I was at work so was not lucky enough to hear the bbc. So they were asking if he was the best player ever to have lived? Glad I missed the drivel they spout in that case. He's probably the best in the world, but nowhere near the best ever. Not as good as Pele or Maradona and I can't understand why anyone would argue he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Internet Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Why is he nowhere near the best ever? He's won literally everything worth winning in football apart from the world cup, which he was a bawhair away from doing. I'm not saying he's better than Pele or Maradona because I never watched those players, but his record and honours surely put him up there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 This thread is about who was the best player in the WC, not who is the best player ever. Both are different. As for the WC, it was Mascerano, and anyone who disagrees is a daft Hibee Troll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrambo Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 So because I think Messi is not nearly as good as Maradona or Pele I must be still in school? I was at work so was not lucky enough to hear the bbc. So they were asking if he was the best player ever to have lived? Glad I missed the drivel they spout in that case. He's probably the best in the world, but nowhere near the best ever. Not as good as Pele or Maradona and I can't understand why anyone would argue he is. You said you'd never heard anyone make that claim, I informed you of one of many occasions. You should still be at school because your acting like a child, not because of your opinions on Messi. Also because your absolutely all over the place here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcticJambo Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Different ages, and all that jazz. Definitely at a club level, and in this day and age that probably counts in his favour. As for the WC: - In 2006 he was under-used, and Peckerman bottled it when they were on the front foot - they lost when the thing to do would have been to throw more oil on the fire and put LM on near the end. In 72' he took off Riquelme for Cambiasso, and in 79' he replaced Crespo with Cruz. Germany equalized in the 80th minute and went onto the S/f via penalties. - In 2010, Argentina also beat Mexico in the round of 16, then crashed out spectacularly to Germany in Q/Fs, who were a bawhair away from defeating the eventual World champs Spain, the great Spain team, team of a generation. There are no stats to support LM in this tournament but similar to this latest tournament, anybody that watched the games will remember him as the most creative, and stand-out player of his team. Coach: Maradona. - In 2014, Argentina reach the final, trail for the first time in the competition in the 113th minute of the 7th game. LM finishes 2nd top equal tournament goal scorer with 4 goals; also gets 2 assists, and 4 motm awards. He has support from to highly rated team-mates in SA, who never turned up, and AdM who was sporadic at best, and who played just 33' of their final three games. Otherwise he's basically on his own. Not sure what else he was meant to do, or what else anybody could do for that matter. Note: All stats sourced from Wiki & FifA.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcticJambo Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Some FIFA stats: Top speed (km/h): Hummels 31.6 Neuer 30.9 Schurrle 30.2 Perez 31.2 Aguero 31.1 Palcios 31.1 Higuain 30.7 Lavezzi 30.5 Messi 30.3 Counter-attacking versus possession, except in Neuer's case - his was to commit common assault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcticJambo Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Completed passes for main attackers Perez 26 Higuain 14 Messi 28 Lavezzi 7 Aguero 17 Palcios 5 Total = 97 Team Total = 416 Ozil 67 Klose 12 Muller 51 Kroos 94 Kramer 10 Schurrle 50 Gotze 14 Total = 298 Team Total = 736 Again, possession in Argentina's half/final third vs few opportunities on counter-attack. Bayern (Barcelona) vs a Dortmund (Chelsea) type game. (Doesn't include arguably BS's 102 passes, of which half his time was spent in the oppositions half) Bit bored today. Resting up for football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooperstar Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Stats are shite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobNox Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 I won't quote ArcticJambos lengthy post, but it's a reasonably thought out and cogent argument. However, I would have given the award to Rodriguez, as I believe he was the player, above all, who really announced himself as world class talent at this tournament. Maybe the fact he won the golden boot meant FIFA wanted to spread the awards around, but I still can't buy Messi winning it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrambo Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Stats are shite. 1 in 4 people would agree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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