Violent Conduct

[DETTY29]

Watching the Spain v. Holland game and most of the analysts say clear head butt and red card by Diego Costa.

 

Now, my opinion but disregard for now what the laws say for a moment, what Costa did was a bit of stupid petulance. In no way was that a clear head but or could be construed as violent. Indeed, I'm not sure it should even be a booking. A stern talking to from the ref at most.

 

I think the game has completely lost its way in how it is officiated.

 

PS - do the laws even say that incident is a clear red?

[Kiwidoug]

 

Couldn't agree more. In fact the theatrics of his oponent were far more deserving of punishment.

[Dazo]

Completely agree but I think the law states something about head movement, I don't think there has to be any contact.

[hughesie27]

The boy collapsing in a heap deserved a yellow for simulation.

[2NaFish]

why else would you thrust your head towards someone else's head if not for the purposes of violence?

[Don Dan]

Over reaction by the Dutch Guy(?) nobody would go down after that. However don't the laws mention intent as part of the violent conduct ruling? Diego should expect a call from old Vincent tomorrow.

[ramrod]

he will get a 2 game ban imo

[DETTY29]

why else would you thrust your head towards someone else's head if not for the purposes of violence?

I think many of us, for me more notably at school fights, have seen full on head butts.

 

What Costa did was a hundred miles away from that

 

Notably rugby would laugh at you if you started sending players off in a contact sport for what Costa did. I'm not even sure in cricket or netball the officials would send folk off the play of field for it.

 

Strong warning from ref that enough is enough, communication to opposite captain that he is carefully watching the guy and his team not to look for retribution.

[Sharky999]

some poor refereeing already, diving, 2 footed tackles and violent conduct all go unpunished but as soon as you protest the ref flashes a yellow card at you.

[2NaFish]

I think many of us, for me more notably at school fights, have seen full on head butts.

 

What Costa did was a hundred miles away from that

 

Notably rugby would laugh at you if you started sending players off in a contact sport for what Costa did. I'm not even sure in cricket or netball the officials would send folk off the play of field for it.

 

Strong warning from ref that enough is enough, communication to opposite captain that he is carefully watching the guy and his team not to look for retribution.

 

You've conflated the outcome and the intent. I asked why would someone do that, not what they hoped to get out of it. The outcome isnt the only factor - you see plenty of headbutts between players challenging for headers but they're unintentional, so clearly the outcome is only one factor. I'll ask again, why would someone thrust their head towards someone else's if not for the purposes of violence?

[Dazo]

 

why else would you thrust your head towards someone else's head if not for the purposes of violence?

 

Thrust ? At best it could be described as motioned towards the other player. That kind of action doesn't have to violent IMO.

[DETTY29]

some poor refereeing already, diving, 2 footed tackles and violent conduct all go unpunished but as soon as you protest the ref flashes a yellow card at you.

I fundamentally believe the way the game is officiated should be changed.

 

I wouldn't for example book players for simulation. Just leave them lying on the ground. And on certain occasions I might not give a foul where I may have done if I believe the player say deliberately simulated or dived under minimal contact. And I'd tell the player and his captain too why.

 

The other 2 areas that pisses me off are players surrounding refs notably at penalty decisions and keepers delaying the penalty. Not sure how to sort. I suppose if the first penalty is missed, the devil in me would find a way to allow one retake.

[DETTY29]

You've conflated the outcome and the intent. I asked why would someone do that, not what they hoped to get out of it. The outcome isnt the only factor - you see plenty of headbutts between players challenging for headers but they're unintentional, so clearly the outcome is only one factor. I'll ask again, why would someone thrust their head towards someone else's if not for the purposes of violence?

You've conflated the outcome and the intent. I asked why would someone do that, not what they hoped to get out of it. The outcome isnt the only factor - you see plenty of headbutts between players challenging for headers but they're unintentional, so clearly the outcome is only one factor. I'll ask again, why would someone thrust their head towards someone else's if not for the purposes of violence?

He didn't really thrust his head though.

[Rudolf's Mate]

I'm going to give the Dutch boy the benefit of doubt here. At no point did he crumple to the ground however he did totally exaggerate.

 

Bottom line is contact was made and Costa stuck his head in therefore bit harsh people saying he should have been carded for simulation.

 

Also Spain were going down with slightest bit contact and rolling about!

 

[2NaFish]

Thrust ? At best it could be described as motioned towards the other player. That kind of action doesn't have to violent IMO.

 

Semantics. Third time - why did he do it?

[2NaFish]

He didn't really thrust his head though.

 

Semantics. Third time - why did he do it?

[Hungry hippo]

Just a yellow card IMO. It never ceases to amaze me how much the media and usually referees are influenced by whether a player goes down or not.

 

It just encourages play acting.

[DETTY29]

Semantics. Third time - why did he do it?

Stupid petulance.

[Masonic]

yellow or a warning would be enough i mean he barely touched him and he went down like suso on 19 05 12 lol

[Dazo]

 

 

Semantics. Third time - why did he do it?

 

A form of dissent, letting the other player know what he thinks of him without the language barrier.

 

And it's not semantics because he didn't thrust his head.

[milky_26]

yellow or a warning would be enough i mean he barely touched him and he went down like suso on 19 05 12 lol

that is not part of the criteria, and if it was would you advocate the same punishment for a player who tries to punch an opponent but misses?

[DETTY29]

To be fair, Costa was about 10 times worse than what Beckham got sent off for in France 98.

 

It's madness when a stern word is all that is required.

[DETTY29]

that is not part of the criteria, and if it was would you advocate the same punishment for a player who tries to punch an opponent but misses?

My key point is that the laws are wrong.

 

Petulance shouldn't be a red card.

[2NaFish]

A form of dissent, letting the other player know what he thinks of him without the language barrier.

 

You're kidding, right? "He's just letting the other player know what he thinks of him"? Christ. He was using physical force, however minimal, to express himself. That's basically a definition of violence. You've just made my point.

 

I do find it hilarious, and i mean hilarious, that you think because there is a language barrier that makes it okay.

 

Stupid petulance.

 

And that petulance was expressed through violence.

 

People here seem to be caught up on the fact that it was shit violence and miss the fact that shit violence is still violence. Other seem to think that because the defender made a meal of it that it somehow absolves costa. It doesnt.

[Dallas Green]

He should never have done it but the way the Dutch boy acted was embarrasing.

[Rudolf's Mate]

Stick your head in someone's face or raise your arms to someone's face then it's a straight red. Regardless if minimal contact or not, if the intent was there then it's a red!

 

Costa caught him with his head which was intentional. If that's not a straight red then feck knows what is!

[DETTY29]

that is not part of the criteria, and if it was would you advocate the same punishment for a player who tries to punch an opponent but misses?

If a player throws a full on punch and misses it should be red. If he had connected it could cause serious harm.

 

Costa in no way was trying to or going to cause serious harm.

 

Bit like raising your hands with a push in the chest if you feel you have been badly fouled. You want to let off a bit of steam but have just about enough control not to start swinging punches about. Another one where a red card doesn't merit the situation.

 

I just like the way rugby officiate games. I think the rule makers and referees understand where player frustration comes from and know how to manage it.

 

But when players really over step the mark and endanger the opposition they tackle it with 2, 4, 6, 8 week bans and so on.

 

Football, most of the time whether its a petulant push to a full on knee high two footed tackle. 2 game ban. Unless you are Luis Suarez and biting folk?

[DETTY29]

 

I do find it hilarious, and i mean hilarious, that you think because there is a language barrier that makes it okay.

 

Not quite the same but

 

Overseas player flashes imaginary card,one of the worst thing a pro does say the expert but

 

British player screaming at the ref 'why's that not an effing booking, effing hell, effs sake' is just a frustrated player at being wronged

 

[Masonic]

that is not part of the criteria, and if it was would you advocate the same punishment for a player who tries to punch an opponent but misses?

 

im not quoting fifa criteria im saying thats what it should be i like the rugby rules where u can get away with a few digs also

[Dazo]

 

 

 

You're kidding, right? "He's just letting the other player know what he thinks of him"? Christ. He was using physical force, however minimal, to express himself. That's basically a definition of violence. You've just made my point.

 

I do find it hilarious, and i mean hilarious, that you think because there is a language barrier that makes it okay.

 

The language barrier comment was firmly tongue in cheek. Looks like we will have to agree to disagree on what constitutes violence.

[Thunderstruck]

 

Notably rugby would laugh at you if you started sending players off in a contact sport for what Costa did.

 

Rugby and "contact sport" always reminds me of Vincent Lombardi's "Football is not a contact sport, it's a collision sport - dancing is a contact sport."

[Rudolf's Mate]

If a player throws a full on punch and misses it should be red. If he had connected it could cause serious harm.

 

Costa in no way was trying to or going to cause serious harm.

 

Bit like raising your hands with a push in the chest if you feel you have been badly fouled. You want to let off a bit of steam but have just about enough control not to start swinging punches about. Another one where a red card doesn't merit the situation.

 

 

So throwing a punch and missing should be a red but a soft headbut isn't?

 

I get what you're saying but a headbutt is a bad offence and an act of violence. Even putting your head softly against another player and pushing him with your head constitutes a red card.

 

[Dunks]

Should have been red and should now be retrospective red. Gowser got red for less against hibs.

[DETTY29]

So throwing a punch and missing should be a red but a soft headbut isn't?

 

I get what you're saying but a headbutt is a bad offence and an act of violence. Even putting your head softly against another player and pushing him with your head constitutes a red card.

The guy throwing a punch and missing (say because the opposition moved out of the way quickly) is someone intending to land a full on punch.

 

Costa didn't throw, miss, land a full on head butt.

 

He made a prat-ish minor head movement.

[GlasgoJambo]

 

Costa didn't throw, miss, land a full on head butt.

 

He made a prat-ish minor head movement.

 

It's an aggressive act however. If someone did that to you while in a heated argument there would be no doubt of the violent connotations that little nudge represents.

Agree it didn't hurt and the reaction was pathetic. Neither of the protagonists gain any kudos from the incident.

[2NaFish]

The language barrier comment was firmly tongue in cheek. Looks like we will have to agree to disagree on what constitutes violence.

 

Unless you can explain why costa did what he did, the only explanation for his actions are that he was being violent. Whatever definition of violence either of us use, and a quick google for 'violence' backs up mine completely, his actions can only be seen as violent given that it isn't anything else. Simply saying it's petulant is only to provide a description to the act of violence.

[Rudolf's Mate]

The guy throwing a punch and missing (say because the opposition moved out of the way quickly) is someone intending to land a full on punch.

 

Costa didn't throw, miss, land a full on head butt.

 

He made a prat-ish minor head movement.

 

He trust his head forward and caught the Dutch players head. Regardless of how hard he made contact is irrelevant as it's violent conduct, prat-ish or not.

 

Someone stamping on another player even if little contact can get a red.

[Busby8]

Whether or not Costa should have gone, is it not about time the guys that over egg the contact and simulate pain start getting taken to taken to task a bit more.

 

I've seen a lot worse, but the Dutch defender's initial reaction was pretty poor.

[the stone rose]

My mate got done by the police for an almost identical head butt while pavement dancing. Deliberate action therefore attempted assault.

[Tommy Brown]

The same laws are there for any levels of the game.

Cant understand why professionals do it.

 

But how do you feel if see your 12 year old kid getting it done to him?

 

I wont feel sorry for Costa if he gets a ban and it would be a good high profile incident to punish.

[lauriesrank]

Semantics. Third time - why did he do it?

I actually think the Dutch guy said something to him, cause he moved his head towards him whilst patting him on the lower back, as if to say 'well done, but take this too', not a headbutt at all but the forward movement should be dealt with with a red card, although if you're gonna do it, you might as well do it properly.

[Franco Fascione]

Corrupt World Cup, run by a thoroughly corrupt organisation.

[rossthejambo]

It's a red card. Sticking the head on someone, regardless of how much contact is made, shouldn't be a part of the game.

 

[Peebo]

Costa is a dirty, dirty ******* who does many things on the pitch to try and provoke opponents. For me, a headbutt, regardless of speed or power, deserves a red card and a ban.

 

The Dutch guy falling to the deck was also utterly embarrassing and deserves punishment for that, too.

[Jamhammer]

FWIW I didn't think the Spain pen was a pen. Clearly stuck his leg into the defender playing for it. All this "clever" and "Had the right to go down" chat does my nut in. Been watching a few documentaries on old world cups, including one this morning on Argentina 78. So refreshing to see players trying to ride tackles and getting up immediately after hefty challenges. Games far too soft now IMO.

[Peebo]

FWIW I didn't think the Spain pen was a pen. Clearly stuck his leg into the defender playing for it. All this "clever" and "Had the right to go down" chat does my nut in. Been watching a few documentaries on old world cups, including one this morning on Argentina 78. So refreshing to see players trying to ride tackles and getting up immediately after hefty challenges. Games far too soft now IMO.

 

Agree. Costa is a horrible cheating *******.