Training

[The People's Chimp]

Heard lots of rumours and supposition about our supposed training regime, or lack thereof. Was wondering if anyone, especially our esteemed youth correspondent, could shed any light on that? Are they really away by lunchtime, or is this a vicious rumour?

 

Clearly basic mistakes are costing us, but how long is spent correcting these? Watching videos and working on different tactics? Very little I imagine, but happy to be proved wrong. A lot of the players are pretty slight, and the SPFL is a brutal environment (at any level). How much time is spent on conditioning? It's a huge thing in England, and in Rugby league, but bar a few gym sessions, seems Scotland is way behind yet again.

 

If the players are only in for a few hours, are done by lunchtime and don't do much in the way of proper conditioning, it's massively stupid, and hugely disappointing.

[Heartbeat]

Its a hard one that cos you can overtrain. I don't doubt that players in general are fit. Nutrition and other aspects of fitness are all closely monitored. You always see these heart monitors these days and weight etc is closely monitored. The problem is if you train hard for two hours every day it should be enough. Problem is the amount of time they are away from the club. I don't personally see why there working day cant start at 10 do the hard stuff then all have an extended but light lunch then back to strategy, dead balls, set pieces and reviewing previous performances in the afternoon. The culture of pro players with too much time on there hands isn't new but little seems to get done to remove it.

 

You can also be fit but pretty heartless and not willing to push yourself when that burn starts, think we have some of these

[Bainy]

They should defintely be in over the afternoon learning about the game, after doing the training etc in the morning, they are young and they have a lot to learn.

[kylelauren01]

The under 20's are in from 9-5 and get pushed hard, the first team squad many of whom can play u'20 are in for 2 hours - go figure!

[Jambof3tornado]

The under 20's are in from 9-5 and get pushed hard, the first team squad many of whom can play u'20 are in for 2 hours - go figure!

And remind me which of the teams cannot win a match for toffee?

[JyTees]

The under 20's are in from 9-5 and get pushed hard, the first team squad many of whom can play u'20 are in for 2 hours - go figure!

 

That's probably so our 1st team management duo can get their golfing handicaps down.

[The Comedian]

The under 20's are in from 9-5 and get pushed hard, the first team squad many of whom can play u'20 are in for 2 hours - go figure!

 

[Juan Rom?n Riquelme]

They were making a stooshie because Paulo Sergio expected them to stay into the afternoon.

 

Can't imagine much has changed.

[3fingersreid]

I might be wrong but I'm sure I read somewhere that we didn't have a nutritionist which is a big mistake

Might get one sponsored by the players fav restaurant tho

[CBjambo]

Part time hours cos they're on part time wages?!

[mellors1874]

If you look at players down south they have muscular physiques and are in most of the day working on all aspects of the game.

Up here they look like they spend a fraction of the time training and when you play sides of any league down south it shows.

culture needs to change at all levels as we are decades behind

[Jambof3tornado]

If you look at players down south they have muscular physiques and are in most of the day working on all aspects of the game.

Up here they look like they spend a fraction of the time training and when you play sides of any league down south it shows.

culture needs to change at all levels as we are decades behind

Look at Lyle Taylor stood beside our boys of similar age!

[Ray Gin]

I heard they were only in for an hour from 11:30am-12:30pm, 3 days a week. After training they all go for a McDonalds before spending the afternoon playing Fifa, which "Lockey" considers to be tactics training. "Lockey" always picks Hearts, regardless of the team his opponent selects. Apparently he was given the manager's job after beating an inebriated and over-whelmingly impressed David Southern, who was Inter Milan, 2-1. True story.

[jambogjh]

Said it in another threat just how important a DOF is these days, someone who can oversee all aspects of football within a club.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

Until we are out of administration and int ownership we will be run on the bare bones because we are still deep deep deep in the mire which apparently is forgotten.

 

So many people very much detached from reality

[rossthejambo]

2 hours of training? When we're playing like we are? That's absolutely scandalous if true.

 

[The People's Chimp]

Until we are out of administration and int ownership we will be run on the bare bones because we are still deep deep deep in the mire which apparently is forgotten.

 

So many people very much detached from reality

 

It's true that a whiteboard and a marker pen, some free weights, and some dvds of matches are all prohibitively expensive.

[Seymour M Hersh]

The under 20's are in from 9-5 and get pushed hard, the first team squad many of whom can play u'20 are in for 2 hours - go figure!

 

Robbie's been having them pull double shifts over the holidays. Not sure exactly what that entails but maybe outside training in the morning and gym work in the afternoon.

[Seymour M Hersh]

I might be wrong but I'm sure I read somewhere that we didn't have a nutritionist which is a big mistake

Might get one sponsored by the players fav restaurant tho

 

Not an individual one no but we get input from the HWU Sports Science Department (which I'd guess includes nutrition).

[3fingersreid]

 

 

Not an individual one no but we get input from the HWU Sports Science Department (which I'd guess includes nutrition).

So it's that lot that's sponsored by nandos then

Explains it a bit better

[Zachearts]

I cant remember the last time i seen us do anything on the park were i thought they must have worked on that at training.

[jambo191]

I cant remember the last time i seen us do anything on the park were i thought they must have worked on that at training.

 

Certainly not set pieces, that's attacking and defending them!!!

[Jambof3tornado]

We dont even look as fit as other teams. Paterson tends to look puggled after 20 minutes.

[Alan_R]

Why is it we've been shite at set pieces (attacking and defending) for far too long! It's embarrassing that I actually see my amateur team have more structure around set plays at times

[Debut 4]

I might say this as a fan but I'm being honest, I'd LOVE to train/practice for most of the day if I was a pro.

 

Training is hard as in the physical work, but who wouldn't want to stay behind and do ball work, free kicks, pens, technique work and so on? You should love wanting the ball, wanting to control it better, hone your touch and become so confident you just want the ball all the time.

 

Some don't know how good their life is and most days they only do 2 hours work. Total waste.

[JyTees]

I cant remember the last time i seen us do anything on the park were i thought they must have worked on that at training.

 

We must've worked on taking centre. We've mastered the art of knocking it back to our centre mid who aimlessly boots it forward and wide.

 

That sort of consistency must be practiced...surely?

[Jambof3tornado]

Has anyone tried counting the number of passes we can make before punting the ball away? Try it on saturday. We rarely manage more than 3 or 4 passes before we gift it to our opponent.

[THIRABHESES]

Set pieces , passing , shooting , tackling , heading , awareness , stamina/energy . We were second to PARTICK THISTLE at all of these skills .

Something rotten at riccarton

[scots civil war]

and us being asked to front all this

 

who was it that appointed those two,john murray?southern?

[Alan_R]

I might say this as a fan but I'm being honest, I'd LOVE to train/practice for most of the day if I was a pro.

 

Training is hard as in the physical work, but who wouldn't want to stay behind and do ball work, free kicks, pens, technique work and so on? You should love wanting the ball, wanting to control it better, hone your touch and become so confident you just want the ball all the time.

 

Some don't know how good their life is and most days they only do 2 hours work. Total waste.

 

This! I work full time but play footy 4-5 Times a week

 

Love training too (but accept I'm maybe in minority there)

 

They really don't realise how lucky they are getting paid just to do what folk like me love!

[portobellojambo1]

Said it in another threat just how important a DOF is these days, someone who can oversee all aspects of football within a club.

 

Is that not the role that John Murray has at Hearts, as Director of Football ?

[jambogjh]

 

and us being asked to front all this

 

who was it that appointed those two,john murray?southern?

Just need to see it out until FOH take over & start a fresh with the right people in the right jobs

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

I hate these threads. Bearing in mind that I'm no fan of Locke, I'm going to defend him here.

 

The squads at most professional clubs in Britain will train four times a week - Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday. Some clubs will also bring players in for a warm down on a Sunday morning (ie post match).

 

The average training session goes on for one hour to one and a half hours. It doesn't sound like long but there's a fine balance between doing enough and doing too much. Some managers would say that you can do yourself in for a Saturday by training too much on a Friday. Better to undertrain sometimes than overtrain. You certainly won't find any squads training for three or four hours even when they're badly out of form.

 

Obviously that doesn't stop extra work on tactics, assessment of prozone (although I fecking doubt hearts have full on prozone) or gym work but hardly a training ground in Britain has a player in it after 2/3pm, aside from those who are injured and getting treatment.

 

By all means get stuck into Locke for being hopeless and inept but stop with this pish.

[Debut 4]

 

I hate these threads. Bearing in mind that I'm no fan of Locke, I'm going to defend him here.

 

The squads at most professional clubs in Britain will train four times a week - Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday. Some clubs will also bring players in for a warm down on a Sunday morning (ie post match).

 

The average training session goes on for one hour to one and a half hours. It doesn't sound like long but there's a fine balance between doing enough and doing too much. Some managers would say that you can do yourself in for a Saturday by training too much on a Friday. Better to undertrain sometimes than overtrain. You certainly won't find any squads training for three or four hours even when they're badly out of form.

 

Obviously that doesn't stop extra work on tactics, assessment of prozone (although I fecking doubt hearts have full on prozone) or gym work but hardly a training ground in Britain has a player in it after 2/3pm, aside from those who are injured and getting treatment.

 

By all means get stuck into Locke for being hopeless and inept but stop with this pish.

i agree that you can overtrain, not just physically but mentally too. You have to sit back and take stock of what you are doing and take it in but there's no reason why a couple of sessions a week can't extend beyond the norm.

 

It's well known to happen in other countries currently better than us at football and great/good players of the past put extra in on aspects they wanted to become better at but maybe also to maintain a level they've set themselves(free kick taking, fine tuning set pieces etc...)

[Jasonauskas]

 

 

Is that not the role that John Murray has at Hearts, as Director of Football ?

 

What?

 

Dopey old fecker?

[dode]

The under 20's are in from 9-5 and get pushed hard, the first team squad many of whom can play u'20 are in for 2 hours - go figure!

[hmfcdoug]

For me it's fairly simple, we have an expensive resource at Hearts with Riccarton, we need to maximise its use.

 

I agree with another poster who said that a 2 hour training session each day, if worked hard, is more than enough, however the game now isn't just about training.

 

They should be having training in the morning, eating lunch together that has been designed for them, then a couple of hours doing reviews of previous game, planning for the next game, gym session and a session around set pieces/ tactical shape. You'll find most of the best academies, for first teams and youths will do this.

 

Simply blasting them for two hours training once a day and letting them bugger off to do whatever they want isn't good enough.

 

The other thing I would say is the sports scientists need to take a step back, it seems they determine if the player if fit enough or has training long enough by monitoring their laptops, then GL stops them from pushing any harder. Well I'm sorry but in the days of Tam Ritchie, we had the fittest team in the league, and he worked them bloody hard and didn't need to rely upon laptops to know when the players had done enough. Our team, for all being young, are simply not fit enough, there's nothing wrong with pushing them beyond their comfort levels, as it's the only way to see how much they can give.

[Allowayjambo1874]

Every time you hear about top class players training in Scotland there are always stories about how much they practice things after the training sessions.

 

If you listen to BBC podcast with BB and SPH, Hartley talks about how Nakamura would practice free kicks for 2 hours every day.after training. Also John Collins has talked in the past about when he started extra training and how that pushed him from being decent player to the next level. No matter what the training regime is at Hearts these players should be taking responsibility and practicing things over and over again.

 

To be fair I don't think there is much wrong with fitness (well maybe Paterson could be excluded as he always seems to be blowing out of his arse!), but the basics just don't seem to be getting through.

 

Like others have said I would love to go training every day with a football club so if it is indeed only 3-4 times a week for mornings only then that's a shocker.

[hmfc_liam06]

Every time you hear about top class players training in Scotland there are always stories about how much they practice things after the training sessions.

 

If you listen to BBC podcast with BB and SPH, Hartley talks about how Nakamura would practice free kicks for 2 hours every day.after training. Also John Collins has talked in the past about when he started extra training and how that pushed him from being decent player to the next level. No matter what the training regime is at Hearts these players should be taking responsibility and practicing things over and over again.

 

To be fair I don't think there is much wrong with fitness (well maybe Paterson could be excluded as he always seems to be blowing out of his arse!), but the basics just don't seem to be getting through.

 

Like others have said I would love to go training every day with a football club so if it is indeed only 3-4 times a week for mornings only then that's a shocker.

 

Having read both Gary Neville's and Alex Ferguson's books over the past wee while the one thing they both touched on was the extraordinary work Beckham put in, before during and after training which then rubbed off on others

 

Not the most naturally gifted talent the world has ever seen but he worked hard to ensure he made the most of what he was given.

 

Can the same be said about our current crop?

[Jammy T]

I agree with Alloway here.

 

Whilst I would hope that the coaching/management regime would impose what ever time was needed to improve situations, players also need to be responsible for self improvement

 

If I was part of the Hearts team at the moment getting my erse felt week in week out in front of x thousand fans, making look like an excuse for a pro-player, I'd be in in afternoons practicing corner deliveries or free kicks, time after time after time

 

As I see it as a pro footballer, if you deliver corners for example, you should land the ball exactly where you want it at least 80% of the time. I cant see any excuse not to.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

 

 

Having read both Gary Neville's and Alex Ferguson's books over the past wee while the one thing they both touched on was the extraordinary work Beckham put in, before during and after training which then rubbed off on others

 

Not the most naturally gifted talent the world has ever seen but he worked hard to ensure he made the most of what he was given.

 

Can the same be said about our current crop?

Not only that but they had the perfect role model in Cantona who was the hardest trainer at the club, despite having the media reputation in typical xenophobic fashion of being a show pony. It is no coincidence that big Eric was a graduate of the French school of excellence.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

But does anyone on here actually know what hours the players are doing? Who says they aren't doing video analysis, gym work etc?

[hearts @ heart]

 

I am a season ticket holder who went to the hospitality in the Gorgie stand on Sunday. After the match Ryan Stevenson, Brad Mackay and Callum Tapping were all interviewed. They were all asked questions regarding the team?s performance and their own, no punches pulled. One of the questions put them was, would some of the team be able to look in the mirror on Monday. It was hard and sad listening to Hearts players head down giving a response. They were all embarrassed to be there and embarrassed when answering. Ryan got a great response from the fans that were there. Can?t quote him word for word. One of his responses was that performance was a kick in the stones to the Hearts supporters. Bit more muted for Brad and Callum. For one reason or another there are some players not pulling their weight? Well we are limited to what we can do regarding team selection. But I remember a certain Jock Wallace who would not let players away with it. You might laugh but a trip to Gulane sand dunes in winter used to do the trick. No hiding there unlike on the park. These players should be afraid to leave the park not giving 100%. It is the least we expect.

Get it sorted Gary one way or another.

 

[Rudy T]

 

 

I am a season ticket holder who went to the hospitality in the Gorgie stand on Sunday. After the match Ryan Stevenson, Brad Mackay and Callum Tapping were all interviewed. They were all asked questions regarding the team?s performance and their own, no punches pulled. One of the questions put them was, would some of the team be able to look in the mirror on Monday. It was hard and sad listening to Hearts players head down giving a response. They were all embarrassed to be there and embarrassed when answering. Ryan got a great response from the fans that were there. Can?t quote him word for word. One of his responses was that performance was a kick in the stones to the Hearts supporters. Bit more muted for Brad and Callum. For one reason or another there are some players not pulling their weight? Well we are limited to what we can do regarding team selection. But I remember a certain Jock Wallace who would not let players away with it. You might laugh but a trip to Gulane sand dunes in winter used to do the trick. No hiding there unlike on the park. These players should be afraid to leave the park not giving 100%. It is the least we expect.

Get it sorted Gary one way or another.

 

If this is the case then these guys are in for a shock. If they get emptied from Hearts its more than likely they will slide down the leagues and fall out the game.

 

Through the clubs circumstances they have been given a rare opportunity, if they throw it away then they'll regret it for a long time. Very few young players make it and most when released from a club like Hearts only go one way and that's down, there's very few examples of players being released from us who have gone on to play at a higher or equal level.

[DETTY29]

Do you know what, I don't think they do lack effort on the pitch.

 

 

Confidence is low and they are getting beaten every week so players aren't going to wandering around the Gorgie suite with their heads aloft. And i hope it wasn't a pundit that asked them if they could look in the mirror. It's one thing debating it here but it's another thing completely chastising the kids to their face.

 

Anyway, back to my first line, it's not effort they lack, it's guidance.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

Do you know what, I don't think they do lack effort on the pitch.

 

 

Confidence is low and they are getting beaten every week so players aren't going to wandering around the Gorgie suite with their heads aloft. And i hope it wasn't a pundit that asked them if they could look in the mirror. It's one thing debating it here but it's another thing completely chastising the kids to their face.

 

Anyway, back to my first line, it's not effort they lack, it's guidance.

I agree with this post. Gary Locke doesn't lack effort either, but experience. But there is no way out of this for fans, players or management alike, would be so much better if we stuck together rather than begin to implode and allow the rest of Scottish football to besmirch us further. We don't have opportunity for change right now, on the park or off it, we are in ADMINISTRATION. Effectively that means you operate with what you have and get on with it. Time to man up in the stands as well as on the park.

[Juan Rom?n Riquelme]

I don't think I've seen a single Hearts player this season give anything less than 100%.

 

It's no substitute for talent though unfortunately.

[hearts @ heart]

 

Do you know what, I don't think they do lack effort on the pitch.

 

 

Confidence is low and they are getting beaten every week so players aren't going to wandering around the Gorgie suite with their heads aloft. And i hope it wasn't a pundit that asked them if they could look in the mirror. It's one thing debating it here but it's another thing completely chastising the kids to their face.

Anyway, back to my first line, it's not effort they lack, it's guidance.

 

They were not chastised. The reason for their selection was to interview the team Captain and the two player of the match awards.

That is itself should reflect that they were there for their performance.

Think the question needed to be asked. Its what the vast majority of Hearts fans are asking themselves after the majority of our matches.

Someone need to get them motivated one way or another. The arm round the shoulder is not working. Yes we are where we are but we should not accept that there is no room for improvement. We are deep in to the season and Gary Locke has got to get them motivated one way or another and that was the point I was making with my last comment.

 

[The People's Chimp]

Going up and down the sand dunes is not the answer; remember JJ was all over the papers going on about our 'hardest pre season ever' which involved lots of running up and down Gullane dunes.

 

2 weeks later Paulo Sergio came in and was shocked at how unfit the players were. We were then embarrassingly small/weak against Spurs.

 

The thread wasn't a dig at the players btw, but genuinely wondering what the management team have in place for training. In terms of players doing extra work, I can remember reading on here that Stevo and Hamill both do extra work in the gym together (possibly back in Ayr?) and you can see their strength on the pitch. Would be nice to hear there were others staying on at Riccarton practising set pieces etc.

[Swimmer]

I hate these threads. Bearing in mind that I'm no fan of Locke, I'm going to defend him here.

 

The squads at most professional clubs in Britain will train four times a week - Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday. Some clubs will also bring players in for a warm down on a Sunday morning (ie post match).

 

The average training session goes on for one hour to one and a half hours. It doesn't sound like long but there's a fine balance between doing enough and doing too much. Some managers would say that you can do yourself in for a Saturday by training too much on a Friday. Better to undertrain sometimes than overtrain. You certainly won't find any squads training for three or four hours even when they're badly out of form.

 

Obviously that doesn't stop extra work on tactics, assessment of prozone (although I fecking doubt hearts have full on prozone) or gym work but hardly a training ground in Britain has a player in it after 2/3pm, aside from those who are injured and getting treatment.

 

By all means get stuck into Locke for being hopeless and inept but stop with this pish.

 

Please stop with the over training excuse. Players in the epl have already played nearly 40 games so far and they train twice per day.

 

My sport, swimming, has their athletes training 24 hours per week covering between 60,000 and 80,000 meters per week and up to 12 hours per week in the gym and then they compete ar weekends, often starting very early and finishing at 8pm.

 

These players dont train enough.

 

It shouldn't all be about fitness! Every week i watch players that lack the basic skills which is criminal. There isno excuse because every single one of these players have the ability. Their attitude sucks. They are undroppable, and know it.

 

Gary Locke has a big problem to motivate because there is no competition for places. But there should be no excuse for a professional footballer to lack the basic skills