stew mc Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 Other than whats on the Official website , anyone have details RE-, how, if we were wound up, we completed the 1904/5 and 1905/6 seasons?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanks said no Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 Think a member of my family, great grannies brother, a player at the time had something to do with this, one of those stories that you are never sure is true or not but there is a mention in one Hearts book, he took Hearts or vice versa to court over non payment,,,,,,,, Anyway he won the Cup, more than any hobo has done in the years after Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hearts Heritage Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 Hearts became a limited company in 1903 ran into trouble and was wound up with debts of ?1,600 in 1905. No impact on Footballing side. Every shareholder of old company was given one new share in new company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hearts Heritage Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 Hearts DID go defunct in 1876 though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stew mc Posted August 1, 2013 Author Share Posted August 1, 2013 When you say 'Hearts ' how does that not impact the footballing side All one thing in a limited company or was it different company's etc?? Hearts became a limited company in 1903 ran into trouble and was wound up with debts of ?1,600 in 1905. No impact on Footballing side. Every shareholder of old company was given one new share in new company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hearts Heritage Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hearts Heritage Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 When you say 'Hearts ' how does that not impact the footballing side All one thing in a limited company or was it different company's etc?? Because they continued to play football IE they fulfilled all their fixtures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stew mc Posted August 1, 2013 Author Share Posted August 1, 2013 Oh you tease!! Hearts DID go defunct in 1876 though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hearts Heritage Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 Members from the defunct ... http://londonhearts.com/scores/images/1876/1876093004.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hearts Heritage Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 Oh you tease!! Read the reports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stew mc Posted August 1, 2013 Author Share Posted August 1, 2013 I know, as stated we completed seasons 1904/5/6 even though as you confirm we were 'Wound up' Just seems strange as you would think the company would include the most important part ie The Team. Trying to win an argument with a hobo Because they continued to play football IE they fulfilled all their fixtures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stew mc Posted August 1, 2013 Author Share Posted August 1, 2013 Even with my specs on, no chance. should have gone to Specsaver...... Read the reports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hearts Heritage Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 I know, as stated we completed seasons 1904/5/6 even though as you confirm we were 'Wound up' Just seems strange as you would think the company would include the most important part ie The Team. Trying to win an argument with a hobo From a statisticians point of view. Hibernian(s) have a contiguous record from 1875 as opposed to 1892/3. As do Hearts from 1873/4 rather than 1877. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigis semiauskas Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 I think it was a fairly quick dissolution and reformation with the new company honouring all the commitments of the previous company. The Lithuanian Elias Furst saved us then I think, statue? Not sure if it was similar to HibernianS becoming defunct and reforming as Hibernian but really who cares (although HFC have never won the big cup!). Hearts were founded at some point between 1873 or later. Hibs were formed in 1875 and didn't exist for a while before coming back too (helped by us). Both are important Edinburgh institutions. so when did the hobos become defunct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stew mc Posted August 1, 2013 Author Share Posted August 1, 2013 Whats the reason, if any for the slight Name change?? From a statisticians point of view. Hibernian(s) have a contiguous record from 1875 as opposed to 1892/3. As do Hearts from 1873/4 rather than 1877. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hearts Heritage Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 Whats the reason, if any for the slight Name change?? Convention, common use, I think like Heart of Mid-Lothian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hearts Heritage Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 so when did the ... become defunct 1891 or thereabouts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigis semiauskas Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 1891 or thereabouts ok so \hfc have won the big cup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tartofmidlothian Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 I seem to remember some chat on here about the same thing happening to Hibs circa 1905 too. Which means Newco Hibs have never won the Scottish Cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hearts Heritage Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 From 6th May 1905 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 From a statisticians point of view. Hibernian(s) have a contiguous record from 1875 as opposed to 1892/3. As do Hearts from 1873/4 rather than 1877. How are they regarding Sevco? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hearts Heritage Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 How are they regarding Sevco? Contiguous, based on if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it is a duck. Far more problematic is Airdrieonians / Airdrie United --> Airdrieonians because when liquidated they took over 'Clydebank'. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airdrieonians_F.C._%281878%29#Liquidation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paolo Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 so when did the hobos become defunct 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VivaObua Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Rangers mate is clinging onto this after us singing about them dying yesterday! poor guy is a mess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 I know, as stated we completed seasons 1904/5/6 even though as you confirm we were 'Wound up' Just seems strange as you would think the company would include the most important part ie The Team. Trying to win an argument with a hobo Trying to win an argument with a Hibbie is the ultimate example of a pointless exercise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 I have no idea what the rules were over a century ago. But my reading of the SPL rules at the time Rangers were liquidated suggested that if Rangers had undergone a voluntary reconstruction similar to that Hearts did in 1904/05 (as far as I understand it) there would have been no impact on the status of the football club. The SPL rules specifically allowed that sort of thing. Anyway if you have to go back well over a century to make your argument it seems to me you are on weak ground, not to say desperate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJGJ Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Who cares..........I mean really who cares ? It's one of these things that really is just not important in this day and age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Who cares..........I mean really who cares ? It's one of these things that really is just not important in this day and age. Agreed. If opposing fans had made an issue of it in say 1906/1907 it might have mattered a little, as it clearly does in relation to their club to Rangers fans today (and for some reason also to Hibs fans). But 110 years later? It's a bit like if Hibs fans were still celebrating a cup win of that vintage. Oh wait ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Who cares..........I mean really who cares ? It's one of these things that really is just not important in this day and age. Well exactly, I wouldn't grudge a tormented soul this tiny silver lining Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambali Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 From 6th May 1905 bit odd the two companies having the same name... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Other than whats on the Official website , anyone have details RE-, how, if we were wound up, we completed the 1904/5 and 1905/6 seasons?? I did some investigations into 1905 financial problems a little while back which I'm sure I documented in either the Rangers mega thread or the Rangers non existential thread. Basically it came down to Hearts having debts it couldn't pay (?1400 increasing to ?1600 by the time payment was made). However the way that the club emerged from the problem was under the terms of Section 161 the Companies Act of 1862 which was the law as it stood at that time. The law allowed the company to continue as a newco subject to certain conditions. 1) all creditors were paid in full, 2) all assets were transferred from the oldco to the newco 3) no shareholder of the oldco would be disadvantaged 4) the oldco would cease trading and be wound up. In today's parlance it would be called "Solvent Reconstruction", which is permitted even in today's SFA Articles. From the Articles: SUSPENSION OR TERMINATION OF MEMBERSHIP (7) where in respect of a member club in full or associate membership a petition is presented for its winding up or where the member club in question shall convene a meeting to pass a resolution for voluntary winding up or shall enter into any form of liquidation (other than for the purposes of a bona fide solvent reconstruction or amalgamation) or shall be deemed by virtue of Section 123 of the Insolvency Act 1986 or any other appropriate statutory provision to be unable to pay its debts. Solvent Reconstruction under the Companies Act of 1862 With regard to Hibs, they played their final game in Feb 1891. They didn't play at all in seasons 1891/92 and 1892/93. The club was resurrected and was admitted to the new 2nd Division in 1893/94. They had a bad experience in one of their first games after being reformed. It wasn't a league game but it took place on 12th August 1893. (sounds familiar ) The result? Hearts 10-2 Hibs. Note that all this occurred before clubs became incorporated entities, so it was effectively just a members club that closed and a new one formed a couple of years later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imeantasong Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 This was covered in the big Rangers thread some time back. Insolvency rules at the time allowed for the procedure we used with no real break in the club (or words to that effect). No luck to straw clutchers apparently. Edit: see post above for more details Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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