Wendy Alexander on Newsnight

[maltese jambo]

Let's get real. I'm not Gordon Brown's biggest fan but the facts are he has improved public services and infrastructure. I'm a Social Democrat and proud of it. Unfortunately New Labour was constituted to sweeten the pill for Middle England who are predominantly Tory minded. I don't think it was necessary to go as far as they did.

 

Most people, including most floating voters, back in 1997 knew the game was up for the Tories with schools, hospitals, the railways, etc in a state of dilapidation after years of neglect by them. Unemployment was at unacceptable and unsustainable levels. The country needed a government prepared to tackle these issues. They also new that Tory tax giveaways, used to bribe the electorate, were crazy when schools, hospitals, etc. were crumbling around them and the services provided there were being short changed. I think people are still aware that tax cuts will only wreck improvements which have been achieved and these are substantial.

 

Teachers, doctors and nurses who saw their salaries slip to derisory levels under the Tories have achieved substantial increases over the last 10 years. When were you last in a hospital? Don't believe anything you read in the Daily Mail and similar rags. My experience is that hospitals up and down the country have undergone massive improvements with more still required.

 

Our railways are thirty years behind those on the continent. The French are already raising the standard of the TGV which will result in widening the gap. The Tories not only (stupidly) privatised the railways but even managed to botch that up; even many Tories agreed with that. The railways have improved despite the calamitous privatisation due mostly to billions of pounds of public investment. Passenger levels are the highest since 1946. It is essential that these improvements are continued and the railways expanded, including the construction of TGV style high speed lines from London to the North of England and Scotland. What will the Tories do ? cut the investment and reduce the size of the network ? just wait.

 

There has also been ten years of stability and growth in the economy which has not been hampered by a blinkered, self interested and short sight Tory at the helm. Business has prospered despite several episodes of overseas economic turmoil.

 

Social Democratic policies are the best for maintaining and developing sound public infrastructure and services for the public good and as the base of a sound business economy. The Tories are not interested in the general well-being of the country. They are all about self. ?No such thing as society?, said Maggie. Oh,yes? Stupid woman! :mad:

 

Just look at Scandinavia, Germany, France and Spain where Social Democratic parties are a respected arm of the political scene in those countries. It is no coincidence that they also have infrastructure and services that are the envy of this country. Tax levels are higher than they are in this country but are seen as justified in order to provide high standards.

 

Until England realizes that Social Democracy is the best way forward the future of the UK as a political entity will be on the slippery slope to oblivion.

 

Middle England has had a collective bout of amnesia ? they forget the Tory mayhem at their peril.

 

I gave them one more chance but am now convinced that Scotland?s future is to seek independence and go our own way in the world. I am convinced that would be the best outcome for our people.

 

Sorry i had to stop reading your post half way through...regarding hospitals.

 

THANK GOD i've not required hospital treatment for a long time; However i have two friends who went in and contracted MRSA, my mother was made to wait in the corridor of a hospital in a wheelchair after falling badly and was left so long (around 6 hours) that in the end we just left..My grandad was recently at the ERI and was transferred to another hospital 'to recieve better treatment', however we then found out that this was done so that his statistic of death would not show up on the ERI's records, and was basically sent to another hospital (the trip must have been sheer agony as he was in a lot of pain) to die.

 

Bearing that in mind, i had to stop reading your post im afraid.

[maltese jambo]

This expedient was to transfer the tax burden from direct to indirect taxation.

You seem to have forgotten about the further increase in VAT to 17.5%.

You also seem to have forgotten that they did away with the top band of income tax so that the rich would fall into the 40% band.

 

What about VAT on domestic fuels which the Tories introduced and were happily going to apply at 17.5% until their was a rebellion and they reduced it to 5%. What about the other stealth taxes that they introduced along the way including the fuel price escalator?

 

The late John Smith was accused by many of losing the 1993 General Election for Labour because of his intention, as shadow chancellor, to raise the tax burden of the rich.

 

New Labour saw that as a step too far unfortunately leaving it to the Liberals, to their credit, to advocate that very move.

 

What get's me about the Tories is this - just how bad do the strategic infrastructure and public services have to get before they realise that the good of the country is directly affected. Our cousins on the continent worked that out many years ago and the benefits are staring us in the face. I know a few hypocritical Tories who have upped sticks and moved to France in order to benefit from the superior public services. Sums them up quite nicely.

 

We need to get real on taxation as a nation. You can?t have it both ways complain about the level of taxation on the one hand and moan about the standards of services, etc on the other.

 

Yes, I agree there has been wastage and that has to be addressed. But to suggest that the vast bulk of what has been invested over the past 10 years has been a waste and unnecessary then I question your motives.

 

When it comes to critising Gordon Brown for selling our Gold cheaply then can you tell me just how much of our reserves were squandered by Wee Norrie La?mont on Black Wednesday? I think you will find that Brown?s error pales into insignificance alongside that debacle.

 

I think we can. As the most taxed country in Europe; explain to me why it is that many patients as going abroad to countries such as Poland?

 

In Malta, a significantly lower tax burdon exists, yet schools are being built and refurbished as well as top of the range medical facilities being introduced.

 

In my opinion recent revelations regarding the tendering process say it all; the government lacks the responsibility to pick the best value bid for new developments, and, more importantly, it lacks the industry expertise to properly evaluate the validy of each bid.

[billco98]

Sorry i had to stop reading your post half way through...regarding hospitals.

 

THANK GOD i've not required hospital treatment for a long time; However i have two friends who went in and contracted MRSA, my mother was made to wait in the corridor of a hospital in a wheelchair after falling badly and was left so long (around 6 hours) that in the end we just left..My grandad was recently at the ERI and was transferred to another hospital 'to recieve better treatment', however we then found out that this was done so that his statistic of death would not show up on the ERI's records, and was basically sent to another hospital (the trip must have been sheer agony as he was in a lot of pain) to die.

 

Bearing that in mind, i had to stop reading your post im afraid.

 

I am sorry to hear about your awful experiences.

 

My experience, thank God, has been much better. Relatives in Chesterfiled and Lincoln, to my surprise were treated in superbly run NHS hospitals where they received first class care in efficiently run wards. In the case of my elderlie and frail mother-in-law, who had fallen and broken her hip, the care she received was excellent; this included treatment for a long term skin problem.

 

Mt daughter was hospitalised in the Glasgow Southern General Hospital where she received first class treatment for a severe case of excema.

 

I have visited several friends in hospital who have also received first class care.

 

I realise that all is not perfect and that Super Bugs are still a serious problem but the people to blame for that 'genie escaping from the bottle' were those who saw fit to outsource hospital cleaning. Now I wonder who they might have been?

 

Not withstanding your experience their is much loose talking down of the NHS in the face of substantial improvements.

[maltese jambo]

I am sorry to hear about your awful experiences.

 

My experience, thank God, has been much better. Relatives in Chesterfiled and Lincoln, to my surprise were treated in superbly run NHS hospitals where they received first class care in efficiently run wards. In the case of my elderlie and frail mother-in-law, who had fallen and broken her hip, the care she received was excellent; this included treatment for a long term skin problem.

 

Mt daughter was hospitalised in the Glasgow Southern General Hospital where she received first class treatment for a severe case of excema.

 

I have visited several friends in hospital who have also received first class care.

 

I realise that all is not perfect and that Super Bugs are still a serious problem but the people to blame for that 'genie escaping from the bottle' were those who saw fit to outsource hospital cleaning. Now I wonder who they might have been?

 

Not withstanding your experience their is much loose talking down of the NHS in the face of substantial improvements.

 

Im glad your experiences were better than mine and i realise that there are some success stories here.

 

However; what i find unforgiveable is the emphasis on targets (i wonder who as well) meaning tht people are treated as numbers and statistics as opposed to human beings who deserve respect.

 

Although outsourcing cleaning is partially to blame, surely the whole purpose of outsourcing is to be able to offset activities to companies who can perform it better and whom specialise in it. Therefore, Hospital management need to take ultimate responsibility for the performance of whoever the firm may be.

[Jambo66]

This expedient was to transfer the tax burden from direct to indirect taxation.

You seem to have forgotten about the further increase in VAT to 17.5%.

You also seem to have forgotten that they did away with the top band of income tax so that the rich would fall into the 40% band.

 

What about VAT on domestic fuels which the Tories introduced and were happily going to apply at 17.5% until their was a rebellion and they reduced it to 5%. What about the other stealth taxes that they introduced along the way including the fuel price escalator?

 

The late John Smith was accused by many of losing the 1993 General Election for Labour because of his intention, as shadow chancellor, to raise the tax burden of the rich.

 

New Labour saw that as a step too far unfortunately leaving it to the Liberals, to their credit, to advocate that very move.

 

What get's me about the Tories is this - just how bad do the strategic infrastructure and public services have to get before they realise that the good of the country is directly affected. Our cousins on the continent worked that out many years ago and the benefits are staring us in the face. I know a few hypocritical Tories who have upped sticks and moved to France in order to benefit from the superior public services. Sums them up quite nicely.

 

We need to get real on taxation as a nation. You can?t have it both ways complain about the level of taxation on the one hand and moan about the standards of services, etc on the other.

 

Yes, I agree there has been wastage and that has to be addressed. But to suggest that the vast bulk of what has been invested over the past 10 years has been a waste and unnecessary then I question your motives.

 

When it comes to critising Gordon Brown for selling our Gold cheaply then can you tell me just how much of our reserves were squandered by Wee Norrie La?mont on Black Wednesday? I think you will find that Brown?s error pales into insignificance alongside that debacle.

 

My comment about the first rise in VAT was simply to highlight the fact that the Tories raise tax as well. Your original comment seemed to suggest that a new Tory government would definitely cut taxes. I am not so sure - particularly since we have nothing in the coffers as a nation to cope with an economic downturn. (That is undeniably the fault of Gordon Brown, by the way.) Much of your reply seems to assume that I said that the Tories are a tax-cutting party. I actually said the Tories don't always cut tax.

 

For what it's worth, it seems to me that all governments cut tax with one hand while raising it with another. We could exchange examples all day if you want. I read today that in 1997/98, Stamp Duty brought in ?830m for the Treasury. Last year, it was ?6.5bn. That rise is not all down to an increase in property prices.

 

As far as New Labour goes, it really is a completely different politcal party from the one pre-Blair. By the mid-1980s, the old Labour party was quite simply unelectable. The only way it could ever hope to be elected was by pandering to so called middle England. It took it until the mid-1990s to persuade middle England it had changed and it got elected.

 

A large proportion of the population is not prepared to pay more in taxes for any reason - and very little is likely to change their minds. They will tend to vote for whichever party they believe will look after them - and stuff everyone else.

 

There is also a significant proportion of people who believe that it is worth paying higher taxes to pay for education, the NHS etc. However, the experience of most people over the last 11 years is that while there has been a massive increase in taxation, there has not been a corresponding massive improvement in public services. That was OK for the Labour government when the economy was OK, because people felt better off (even if they weren't). Now, things are different. People feel worse off, are paying higher taxes and see that our public services are still pretty poor. Those people will be looking for someone to blame and the government is the obvious target.

 

You asked about the cost of Black Wednesday. According to the Treasury in 2005, the cost was ?3.3bn. The Tories were punished for that (and other mistakes) in 1997. Just as the Labour party was punished in 1979 for its mistakes. In 2009/10, my guess is they will be punished for their more recent mistakes.

[Coco]

Im glad your experiences were better than mine and i realise that there are some success stories here.

 

However; what i find unforgiveable is the emphasis on targets (i wonder who as well) meaning tht people are treated as numbers and statistics as opposed to human beings who deserve respect.

 

Although outsourcing cleaning is partially to blame, surely the whole purpose of outsourcing is to be able to offset activities to companies who can perform it better and whom specialise in it. Therefore, Hospital management need to take ultimate responsibility for the performance of whoever the firm may be.

 

The trouble is of course that the people who eventually take the responsibility are the unfortunate people who get superbugs - and the Government ie the people who pay taxes. If an opted-out cleaner cuts corners then it is impossible to prove that they were the reason why superbugs were there. So the claim goes against the swilling Government budget.

 

I asked billco98 in another thread where he was commenting on this issue if he had statistics on how many superbugs are contracted in private hospitals. He hasn't answered so far. I genuinely have no idea - and would be interested because in private hospitals there is a clear incentive for the hospitals not to have superbugs. If someone gets a superbug in the private hospital the shareholders get cleaned out when the claim for damages goes in against them. So I would expect that there would be fewer superbugs in private hospitals.

[Toggie88]

I just read the latest New Labour press release. It's easy to see that they are in complete panic. They know that the Tories will win Westminster, and the referendum will be a by-gone conclusion - But they do know that if they held one now, they'd stand a small chance.

 

I'm glad the SNP has stuck to their manifesto commitment - Labour are completely ****ed now.

[Drew Busby !]

I just read the latest New Labour press release. It's easy to see that they are in complete panic. They know that the Tories will win Westminster, and the referendum will be a by-gone conclusion - But they do know that if they held one now, they'd stand a small chance.

 

I'm glad the SNP has stuck to their manifesto commitment - Labour are completely ****ed now.

 

Agreed.

 

As my dear old dad used to say, "ah wouldnae gie them the reek o ' ma dung"

[John S]

On a recent visit to the parliament I spent some time talking with a female security officer.

 

She told me that Wendy A was the most arrogant rude and obnoxious person she has ever had the misfortune to come in to contact with, whereas she said that Alex Salmond was a perfect gentleman, always taking time to speak with the security staff and others, and appeared to show a genuine interest in them and in their views.

 

the female security officer told me that she now refuses to open a door for Alexander on a point of principle - she absolutely hated her.

[davemclaren]

On a recent visit to the parliament I spent some time talking with a female security officer.

 

She told me that Wendy A was the most arrogant rude and obnoxious person she has ever had the misfortune to come in to contact with, whereas she said that Alex Salmond was a perfect gentleman, always taking time to speak with the security staff and others, and appeared to show a genuine interest in them and in their views.

 

the female security officer told me that she now refuses to open a door for Alexander on a point of principle - she absolutely hated her.

 

I assume walking into unopened doors explains her facial expressions then.