Salvage

[Dr. Bapswent]

Assuming we go into next season without a new manager, or a vastly different squad - What would it take by way of results next season for things to be considered in any way salvaged?

 

If we can forget a new manager for now (i know for most its the biggest issue), but if we can put that to one side for sake of argument.

 

What would be the required (realistic) level of performance, table position etc for those who have not yet refused to renew their ST to consider next season to be acceptable and not a further implosion?

[Guest JamboRobbo]

It all depends on wage budget IMO.

 

If we're still spending in the region of 10.2M or 12.49M (our last two wage budgets in accounts), then we need to be clear in third as an absolute minimum, and hoping to hang onto the OF's coattails, otherwise we're massively underacheiving for the money we are spending (which to me shows that the system ain't working - as it hasn't for past two years either).

 

If we've changed strategy and cut the wage bill towards the level of other SPL teams (3M or less) then just top 6 and competing towards 3rd would be reasonable for that budget, and HMFC could bring home a big profit.

[Cliffundo]

Assuming we go into next season without a new manager, or a vastly different squad - What would it take by way of results next season for things to be considered in any way salvaged?

 

If we can forget a new manager for now (i know for most its the biggest issue), but if we can put that to one side for sake of argument.

 

What would be the required (realistic) level of performance, table position etc for those who have not yet refused to renew their ST to consider next season to be acceptable and not a further implosion?

 

Unbelievable!

 

are you in anyway in cahoots with the regime? seriously?

 

How can you contemplate it?

 

why gauge oppinion on it?

 

WE NEED A MANAGER!

[Dr. Bapswent]

Unbelievable!

 

are you in anyway in cahoots with the regime? seriously?

 

How can you contemplate it?

 

why gauge oppinion on it?

 

WE NEED A MANAGER!

 

Its a simple question.

 

Try pulling your knickers out your arse and answering, rather than having a fit.

[jambovambo]

[Cliffundo]

Its a simple question.

 

Try pulling your knickers out your arse and answering, rather than having a fit.

 

You are 100% correct it's a simple question!

 

I could have gave good odds on you being the one to ask it aswell!

[Dr. Bapswent]

It all depends on wage budget IMO.

 

If we're still spending in the region of 10.2M or 12.49M (our last two wage budgets in accounts), then we need to be clear in third as an absolute minimum, and hoping to hang onto the OF's coattails, otherwise we're massively underacheiving for the money we are spending (which to me shows that the system ain't working - as it hasn't for past two years either).

 

If we've changed strategy and cut the wage bill towards the level of other SPL teams (3M or less) then just top 6 and competing towards 3rd would be reasonable for that budget, and HMFC could bring home a big profit.

 

I cant see the wages being cut that dramatically in a season.

 

And many on here will be after your blood for suggesting only top 6.

 

Id imagine next season will be an attempt to consolidate somewhre in between what you suggest.

 

I dont think itll happen in 1 season though. Which really comes back to the same question - what does it take to make you think the signs of improvement are there, and how far do they need to go before you will consider that things might work out, over the space of 1 season.

[Dr. Bapswent]

You are 100% correct it's a simple question!

 

I could have gave good odds on you being the one to ask it aswell!

 

Well done you.

 

So whats your issue with it, or with me asking it?

[Praha06]

It all depends on wage budget IMO.

 

If we're still spending in the region of 10.2M or 12.49M (our last two wage budgets in accounts), then we need to be clear in third as an absolute minimum, and hoping to hang onto the OF's coattails, otherwise we're massively underacheiving for the money we are spending (which to me shows that the system ain't working - as it hasn't for past two years either).

 

If we've changed strategy and cut the wage bill towards the level of other SPL teams (3M or less) then just top 6 and competing towards 3rd would be reasonable for that budget, and HMFC could bring home a big profit.

 

Pretty much what I would've posted.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

I cant see the wages being cut that dramatically in a season.

 

And many on here will be after your blood for suggesting only top 6.

 

Id imagine next season will be an attempt to consolidate somewhre in between what you suggest.

 

I dont think itll happen in 1 season though. Which really comes back to the same question - what does it take to make you think the signs of improvement are there, and how far do they need to go before you will consider that things might work out, over the space of 1 season.

 

Well IMO, if we're consolidating with a wage bill anywhere above 3M (personally I can't imagine our wage bill being less than 10M again next year) , then we should be performing as well as or better than teams with a smaller wage bill than that (i.e. the whole SPL, other than OF).

 

There is no excuse for spending 10M quid and finishing anywhere below 3rd IMO, not when no non-OF SPL team is spending even half of that.....

 

As for signs of improvement, I only want one thing. A manager who meets Jan 1st statement, and who is given the authority promised in Jan 1st statement and subsequeunt Vlad interview on Official Website.

 

I don't think it's much to ask to expect HMFC to do what most of us can see needs done, and most importantly, what THEY told us they needed to do.

[Jammy T]

Its a good question, which I find very difficult to answer

 

The instinctive answer is that Hearts should be looking to get into Europe year on year. There are factual indicators which point to us in the "they should be 3rd force" bracket

 

I dont think anything else is really acceptable, given our fan base, relative resources etc

 

Were we to go 3 years without Europe in this new era?

 

Could this be justified?

[Cliffundo]

Well done you.

 

So whats your issue with it, or with me asking it?

 

Cause it stinks of .. if we do not appoint a manager what would you preffer as a second prize!

 

It should never be considered! It is the fundemental requirement for a football club to have an manager.

[hearts_crazy]

Assuming we go into next season without a new manager, or a vastly different squad - What would it take by way of results next season for things to be considered in any way salvaged?

 

If we can forget a new manager for now (i know for most its the biggest issue), but if we can put that to one side for sake of argument.

 

What would be the required (realistic) level of performance, table position etc for those who have not yet refused to renew their ST to consider next season to be acceptable and not a further implosion?

 

Assuming that you mean we persist with Shaggy at the helm the best we can hope for is a lot of dull as dishwater performances with all players ambling around the pitch in a couldn't give a feck stylee resulting in wrist-slashingly boring 0-0 draws and the odd freak win, coupled with several horseings off the OF. Shaggy is not capable of anything more than that i'm afraid, he doesn't have a winning mentality and that rubs off on the players big time, and he rates feckin Calum feckin Elliot. He's GOT to go or top 6 is just a pipe dream.

[Dr. Bapswent]

Cause it stinks of .. if we do not appoint a manager what would you preffer as a second prize!

 

It should never be considered! It is the fundemental requirement for a football club to have an manager.

 

So you never consider anything else but winning the league every season?

 

Anything else should never be considered?

[Buffalo Bill]

If it's the same crap as this season, with Vlad meddling and 'Shaggy' taking charge of guys who neither fear or respect him then I think we'll finish 7th or something; ?10M budget or not.

 

Summer or bust for Vlad.

 

 

Buffalo Bill

 

.

[Dr. Bapswent]

If it's the same crap as this season, with Vlad meddling and 'Shaggy' taking charge of guys who neither fear or respect him then I think we'll finish 7th or something; ?10M budget or not.

 

Summer or bust for Vlad.

 

 

Buffalo Bill

 

.

 

Yes, but what constitutes success for you, what level do we need to achieve to stop you walking away?

[Cliffundo]

So you never consider anything else but winning the league every season?

 

Anything else should never be considered?

 

I dont think we will ever win the league under VR! I would be happy with a manager and the players we have now tbh. aslong as he trained them and picked them... anything else would be a bonus. just a bit of consitency would be nice!

[Cut The Crap]

It's not about league positions or wage bills for me.

 

If we are being run with some honesty, integrity and discipline, I'll happily go along and watch whoever we can afford doing their very best. That's the way it was until 2005.

 

Currently our club is rotten, corrupt and utterly shambolic. There's nothing to follow right now.

[Uberjambo]

I don't care too much about the level as long as I see players playing for the jersey and someone in charge who knows what he is doing. I don't mind a lack of success, god knows we are used to it. It is the apathy and disinterest in the players which breed contempt.

[magicTs]

A UEFA Cup spot each and every season should be an absolute given for Hearts in today's financial football climate.

 

Dropping 30pts out of 54 against Gretna, St Mirren, Kilmarnock, ICT and Falkirk is COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE.

[hearts_crazy]

I don't care too much about the level as long as I see players playing for the jersey and someone in charge who knows what he is doing. I don't mind a lack of success, god knows we are used to it. It is the apathy and disinterest in the players which breed contempt.

 

The most sensible post on here for a while. It's the apathy that really peshes me off, the fact that when we went 2-0 down last night we did not change the way we were playing one iota. The Hearts I know would have fought tooth and nail to get back into it. One thing is for sure if the players in a certain famous Edinburgh derby had the same attitude as the ones we have now 4-4 would never have happened.

 

Most important of all is a new Manager, one who can instill a bit of passion and commitment in the players, a will to win. One who boots them in the nuts when they go in at half time 1-0 down not pat them on the back and say never mind. So for the OP to say 'forget a new manager for now' is simply ridiculous. That is the ONLY issue here, we have the players who can do it, they just need the right sort of leadership and an attitude transplant.

[Buffalo Bill]

Yes, but what constitutes success for you, what level do we need to achieve to stop you walking away?

 

 

Enjoying my football again will constitute success for me.

 

A winning team, trying their best at a club where everyone is giving their all from the top down.

 

 

That could mean third, fourth, second, first or fifth or sixth.

 

Anything less that is a failure.

 

 

Buffalo Bill

 

.

[Taffin]

I dont think we will ever win the league under VR! I would be happy with a manager and the players we have now tbh. aslong as he trained them and picked them... anything else would be a bonus. just a bit of consitency would be nice!

 

We have consitency right now, dull mediocre performances week in week out.

[boabyarsebiscuit]

In the League, success is 3rd. Or better!

 

Anything else is failure. Let's stop kidding ourselves. And none of this "Top 6 being a sign of improvement" rubbish from the Vladgimps either.

[Dr. Bapswent]

In the League, success is 3rd. Or better!

 

Anything else is failure. Let's stop kidding ourselves. And none of this "Top 6 being a sign of improvement" rubbish from the Vladgimps either.

 

So the only success youll accept next year will be an immediate jump to 3rd?

 

Anything else would be a failure?

[H.A.N.S]

So the only success youll accept next year will be an immediate jump to 3rd?

 

Anything else would be a failure?

 

With the wage bill and amount of players we have (albeit most are cack) it'll be a failure if we are not third by a distance and close to the OF.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

So the only success youll accept next year will be an immediate jump to 3rd?

 

Anything else would be a failure?

 

With the money we are spending in comparision to our competitors, it'd be a horrific failure. just like it was this year and last year.

[magicTs]

With the money we are spending in comparision to our competitors, it'd be a horrific failure. just like it was this year and last year.

 

Totally agree. 30pts have been dropped (easily over 50%) against fellow bottom 6 sides this season alone. That is a disgraceful statistic given our expenditure compared to theirs.

 

Would I be exaggerating to say the wage bills of the other 5 combined would still fall short of our's ?? Unreal.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

Would I be exaggerating to say the wage bills of the other 5 combined would still fall short of our's ?? Unreal.

 

Nope, I think you'd be pretty safe with that statement.

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

I cant see the wages being cut that dramatically in a season.

 

And many on here will be after your blood for suggesting only top 6.

 

Id imagine next season will be an attempt to consolidate somewhre in between what you suggest.

 

I dont think itll happen in 1 season though. Which really comes back to the same question - what does it take to make you think the signs of improvement are there, and how far do they need to go before you will consider that things might work out, over the space of 1 season.

 

A manager, managing.

 

That means selecting the players we should buy, training the players during the week, selecting a line-up before the match and deciding substitutions during the match - no exceptions and no excuses. Throw in a couple of leaders on the pitch and that would do me.

 

I don't care if we finish 11th with the above setup - it's a step in the right direction and something to build on.

[H.A.N.S]

Totally agree. 30pts have been dropped (easily over 50%) against fellow bottom 6 sides this season alone. That is a disgraceful statistic given our expenditure compared to theirs.

 

Would I be exaggerating to say the wage bills of the other 5 combined would still fall short of our's ?? Unreal.

 

I was told on Sunday Nade and Kingston are both on more a week than the entire Hibs starting eleven on Sunday.

[H.A.N.S]

A manager, managing.

 

That means selecting the players we should buy, training the players during the week, selecting a line-up before the match and deciding substitutions during the match - no exceptions and no excuses. Throw in a couple of leaders on the pitch and that would do me.

 

I don't care if we finish 11th with the above setup - it's a step in the right direction and something to build on.

 

I we were eleventh after five games with that scenario Vlad would chuck him.

[magicTs]

I was told on Sunday Nade and Kingston are both on more a week than the entire Hibs starting eleven on Sunday.

 

It's staggering eh ? Value for money is not a concept Romanov has ever heard of. Of course plenty clubs pay too much money to certain individuals but we really take the biscuit, throwing contracts at all sorts of nonentities.

[H.A.N.S]

It's staggering eh ? Value for money is not a concept Romanov has ever heard of. Of course plenty clubs pay too much money to certain individuals but we really take the biscuit, throwing contracts at all sorts of nonentities.

 

Makela and Beslija still pick up their 5k and 9k respectively too

[jimjamjolly]

Finishing above the hobos:confused:

[Only a Game]

European football has and always will be the benchmark as to whether Hearts have had a good season or not and that will be the same next season and every season thereafter. Even a League Cup win but with no European football wouldnt represent a good season for me.

 

If we go into next season without a new manager I dont believe European football is an achievable target. There's too many teams in a much better managerial/organisational/effective coaching position than we would be for us to succeed without a proper manager, even if we were to add a bit of quality to the squad.

[Only a Game]

One thing is for sure if the players in a certain famous Edinburgh derby had the same attitude as the ones we have now 4-4 would never have happened.

 

None of the important results we've had to scrap for in the last 30 years would have happened with this squad's attitude, and that includes two cup wins.

[Cade]

European place, absolute minimum.

 

Whether that comes from winning the Big Cup or finishing in the top 3 (or is it 4 now) in the league.

[Zico]

It's not about league positions or wage bills for me.

 

If we are being run with some honesty, integrity and discipline, I'll happily go along and watch whoever we can afford doing their very best. That's the way it was until 2005.

 

Currently our club is rotten, corrupt and utterly shambolic. There's nothing to follow right now.

 

Thanks CTC, you saved me the effort. I'd just like the main objective of us as a football club to be the first team winning as many games as possible rather than the first team being a toy or a shop window or a feckin freak show. Oh, and a manager would be nice unless....unless we've been lied to!!!

[Fourcandles]

European football has and always will be the benchmark as to whether Hearts have had a good season or not and that will be the same next season and every season thereafter. Even a League Cup win but with no European football wouldnt represent a good season for me.

 

If we go into next season without a new manager I dont believe European football is an achievable target. There's too many teams in a much better managerial/organisational/effective coaching position than we would be for us to succeed without a proper manager, even if we were to add a bit of quality to the squad.

 

 

Has in the past but doubt always will be; if we carry this basic structure and group of players into next season we will again flirt with relegation and not finish top 6 thats for sure.

I wish i could be more optimisic but this the scenario which will unfold im afraid.

[Charlie-Brown]

Since 1983 when we regained our SPL status we have qualified for Europe in 13 seasons out of 26 ..... does that mean we are succeeding 50% of the time and failing 50% of the time also?

[Only a Game]

Since 1983 when we regained our SPL status we have qualified for Europe in 13 seasons out of 26 ..... does that mean we are succeeding 50% of the time and failing 50% of the time also?

 

Yes I think it means exactly that. On those figures we have succeeded a bit more than I thought.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

Since 1983 when we regained our SPL status we have qualified for Europe in 13 seasons out of 26 ..... does that mean we are succeeding 50% of the time and failing 50% of the time also?

 

And Vlad has only managed one in 3 seasons. Below average acheivement for HMFC. Despite having a 10M+ wage bill each year, in comparision to 3M wage bills we're competing against to get into Europe.....

[rudi]

Assuming we go into next season without a new manager, or a vastly different squad - What would it take by way of results next season for things to be considered in any way salvaged?

 

If we can forget a new manager for now (i know for most its the biggest issue), but if we can put that to one side for sake of argument.

 

What would be the required (realistic) level of performance, table position etc for those who have not yet refused to renew their ST to consider next season to be acceptable and not a further implosion?

 

Don't assume.

[Dr. Bapswent]

Don't assume.

 

Without assumptions this board would not function very well.

[rudi]

Without assumptions this board would not function very well.

 

Or a computer.

[Dr. Bapswent]

Or a computer.

 

Wise words.

[Jammy T]

Without assumptions this board would not function very well.