UKIP

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

This should maybe be added to the Scottish independence thread but UKIP doing well in te local elections down here. Not a party I'd vote for but always interesting when a marginal bunch start making waves.

[TheOak88]

I think it is good for politics as a whole, when fringe parties start to get a bit of coverage and momentum. It puts a bit of pressure on the main parties to actually start listening to people a bit more, for they fear they might lose those voters. Although I am not a UKIP expert I actually quite like some of what they are saying - responsible immigration policy, EU referendum, lowering tax for people on minimum wage etc

[Craigieboy]

Appealing to filthy racists.

 

No thanks.

[The White Cockade]

just watched the BBC lunchtime news

They intereviewed a number of UKIP supporters

Nearly all of them started their response with "i'm not a racist but"

[Sten Guns]

Appealing to filthy racists.

 

No thanks.

 

[mullen13]

Wanting tight immigration controls does not mean that you are a racist. This society is quick to band that term about. I think the majority of people do want it but they fear being branded one. "they took oor jobs" is actually an extremely valid argument in the current climate for a change. This country would rather bring in cheap labor than deal with the problems that exist in society already. In the long run it only causes problems.

[Alan Johnson]

In theory, fringe parties coming to the fore has to be a good thing for democracy and politics.

 

When the last two big movers in council elections have been BNP and UKIP, possibly not.

[Patrick Bateman]

Their party emblem is a ? sign. Check the absolute weirdos that appear in this too http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YejLfOsrP4 (especially at 1.50) - UKIP is a party for the reactionary and disaffected underclass, the sort who buy the Daily Mail and insist the MMR vaccination causes autism. They struggle to return deposits in Scotland, thankfully because people here don't buy their reactionary, right-wing nonsense. Still, that doesn't stop the BBC giving UKIP wall-to-wall coverage; what about the Green party? They've actually had some success, yet are ignored and I wonder why.

 

Just realised the weirdo in the video is this man - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Monckton,_3rd_Viscount_Monckton_of_Brenchley - Isn't it funny how UKIP batter on about 'unelected bureaucrats' yet they select hereditary peers as candidates. Seriously, people who vote for UKIP are universally ignorant of what they're actually voting for, to say the least.

[frankblack]

Just another protest party to gather voters from the BNP and the Tories.

 

The Lib Dems are looking utterly messed for the next general election at least and are haemoraging votes.

 

I don't see those people voting for UKIP at the next general election, which tends to happen with protest parties.

[Cade]

Splitting the right-wing vote and all but ensuring a Labour Government at the next General Election. Good stuff.

[rossthejambo]

Wanting tight immigration controls does not mean that you are a racist. This society is quick to band that term about. I think the majority of people do want it but they fear being branded one. "they took oor jobs" is actually an extremely valid argument in the current climate for a change. This country would rather bring in cheap labor than deal with the problems that exist in society already. In the long run it only causes problems.

 

See the majority of the jobs that they take, they're the jobs that no ###### from this country wants because they see them as beneath them. It's a shite argument.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

My concern with parties like this is that the only drum they bang is the immigration one.

 

Much bigger problems in this country which UKIP don't focus on.

[I.J]

BNP-lite.

[mullen13]

See the majority of the jobs that they take, they're the jobs that no ###### from this country wants because they see them as beneath them. It's a shite argument.

 

I know joiners and painters and plumbers who are constantly undercut by cheaper (and poorer quality) eastern european tradesmen. I love eastern european lads, good guys, wouldn't blame them for coming here but that doesn't help the guys who were here before.

 

I have been made redundant twice in the last year and a half and have been looking for work for a while now. Only seem to be getting temporary stuff. I do not blame employers for going for the cheaper option, I do not blame the guys coming in to do their job. I would kill for a job, getting desperate times. Do you think I can't be arssed getting one?? I can see your point with the wee lazy scroungers but we need to be harsher on them and help the ones genuinely looking for work. I am not accepting the "our country is too lazy so let's look elsewhere" argument either. Train our workforce better, give them a better chance in life and educate them. Immigration is a quick fix which only works when we are desperate for labor i.e. 15 years ago. Not right now when there are no jobs.

 

Ironically I feel that emigration is my only option. I need a job to save up before I go though.

[Tazio]

 

Ironically I feel that emigration is my only option. I need a job to save up before I go though.

 

Very ironic, going over there stealing their jobs.

[The Gasman]

Posted earlier today on Facebook by Jake Burns, and seems fairly accurate....

 

[Coco]

Can anyone name any of their people other than Farage?

[Ibrahim Tall]

What's UKIP's solution to all the these ******* British immigrants moving to Australia/Canada/New Zealand etc and undercutting the prices of those in trades already there? Job stealing parasites, don't get me started on all those criminals that immigrate to Spain or Cyprus to dodge convictions and aren't stopped at the border, or the young drunken or drugged yobos that hit Spanish or Greek villages every year and cause nothing but problems, violence or strain on the local health services.

 

******* immigrants.

[Franklin Delano Bluth]

I know joiners and painters and plumbers who are constantly undercut by cheaper (and poorer quality) eastern european tradesmen. I love eastern european lads, good guys, wouldn't blame them for coming here but that doesn't help the guys who were here before.

 

I have been made redundant twice in the last year and a half and have been looking for work for a while now. Only seem to be getting temporary stuff. I do not blame employers for going for the cheaper option, I do not blame the guys coming in to do their job. I would kill for a job, getting desperate times. Do you think I can't be arssed getting one?? I can see your point with the wee lazy scroungers but we need to be harsher on them and help the ones genuinely looking for work. I am not accepting the "our country is too lazy so let's look elsewhere" argument either. Train our workforce better, give them a better chance in life and educate them. Immigration is a quick fix which only works when we are desperate for labor i.e. 15 years ago. Not right now when there are no jobs.

 

Ironically I feel that emigration is my only option. I need a job to save up before I go though.

 

:really:

 

On topic: it's a protest vote, and just like when people voted for the BNP and they got European party, people are worried now. But, can anybody name their policies, other than cutting down immigration and leaving the EU?

[ToadKiller Dog]

Can anyone name any of their people other than Farage?

 

Viscount Monckton a nutter aristocrat plus , Godfery Bloom is their other MEP

 

Loads of ex BNP members EDL , English democrats , national front organisers .

UKIP is the new home to the Far right in England .

Farage gets to easy a time and has celeb status , he also is a fan of visiting strip clubs , wonder if he refuses the advances if the Eastern European girls ?

 

Farage is good at playing the populist card .

[mullen13]

What's UKIP's solution to all the these ******* British immigrants moving to Australia/Canada/New Zealand etc and undercutting the prices of those in trades already there? Job stealing parasites, don't get me started on all those criminals that immigrate to Spain or Cyprus to dodge convictions and aren't stopped at the border, or the young drunken or drugged yobos that hit Spanish or Greek villages every year and cause nothing but problems, violence or strain on the local health services.

 

******* immigrants.

 

If this is a dig at me where did I say it was the immigrants fault? If scotland becomes independent I hope we create a whole string of new jobs and welcome as many immigrants as we can handle. Would be a good boost to the economy and the population. Right now there are no jobs. For the record UKIP would be the last party I would vote for.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

If this is a dig at me where did I say it was the immigrants fault? If scotland becomes independent I hope we create a whole string of new jobs and welcome as many immigrants as we can handle. Would be a good boost to the economy and the population. Right now there are no jobs. For the record UKIP would be the last party I would vote for.

 

Just as well because UKIP don't give a feck about Scotland

[mullen13]

Just as well because UKIP don't give a feck about Scotland

 

agreed! I think of them that torie boys who never got let into the gang. They are basically the same party

[JamboX2]

 

 

Just as well because UKIP don't give a feck about Scotland

 

I think that eurokcepticism is as strong in Scotland as it is anywhere else in the UK. I cant imagine trawlermen, farmers and business men are always fond of the EU. I think the political debate here is different. Wider UK euroskepticism gets a lot of coverage, in Scotland our debate isnt (atm) about Union with Europe, its Union with England, Wales and Northern Ireland.

 

I think its disrespectful to call them nutjobs and racists. I dont like UKIP policies but its low politics to belittle them. As a fringe party which for years has been single issue they obviously attracted nutter supporters and a lot of the right wing protest vote. Now Farage is pushing them from their base to attract "Middle England" voters. Its political evolution, look at the SNP in the 1950s/60s they were derided and maligned as a bunch of Tartan clad bravehearts, the 1970s/80s, again as left wingers and nutter bravehearts, the 1990s and devolution gave them a platform and now they're a majority administration. If England had a devolved parliament under PR they'd do well imo. Its almost like we have the SNP, the Welsh have Plaid Cymru, NI have the DUP/SF/UUP et.al and some of the English have UKIP. Its almost like they are the assertion of English protest and tiredness. Bearing in mind 15 years ago it was he LibDems, 5 ago it was the Greens and now its UKIP, these things are generally flash in the pan. Vote UKIP, give the govt a kick, vote Labour/LibDem/Tory at a general election. Its protest politics. Last time a party broke through big time before the SNP was Labour. And that was after World War 1. The LibDems only stumbling block was the Tories. Had we had a Lab-Lib govt we'd see them doing nicely right now imo.

 

UKIP will vannish in 2015 and reappear at the next EuroParl election or local governemnt.

[Ibrahim Tall]

 

 

 

If this is a dig at me where did I say it was the immigrants fault? If scotland becomes independent I hope we create a whole string of new jobs and welcome as many immigrants as we can handle. Would be a good boost to the economy and the population. Right now there are no jobs. For the record UKIP would be the last party I would vote for.

 

If UK tradesmen can't be competitive with their prices it's their own fault if they fail, I know plenty Brits in the trades who are still thriving even in the current market because they're capable of doing just that, it's common sense that if someone does as good a job as you and has the same qualifications but charges far less they're going to get a job ahead of you so trying to just ignore the situation and blame immigration is just brainless. There's nothing to stop Brits undercutting other Brits, its always happened, so why is a foreigner doing it any different? You also mention "poorer quality"? How? The standard of your average house in this country is horrific in comparison with most of Europe, the walls are virtually cardboard in new builds and riddled with damp and painted over before people have even moved in, even half this jobs done have an attitude of if you can't see it its ok. Even in Western Poland the homes are often better, the walls are solid for starters, never mind Germany which makes much of here look embarrassingly bad.

Nevermind mechanics, the amount of good Scottish mechanics who even forgot rediculous things like putting oil caps back on ffs. Being British is by no means a sign of quality, there's plenty out there who are great but there's plenty who shouldn't even be working, just as with other countries.

[JamboX2]

Splitting the right-wing vote and all but ensuring a Labour Government at the next General Election. Good stuff.

 

This. Squeeze Tory votes in marginals. Push Labour and LibDems in.

[JamboX2]

Their party emblem is a ? sign. Check the absolute weirdos that appear in this too http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YejLfOsrP4 (especially at 1.50) - UKIP is a party for the reactionary and disaffected underclass, the sort who buy the Daily Mail and insist the MMR vaccination causes autism. They struggle to return deposits in Scotland, thankfully because people here don't buy their reactionary, right-wing nonsense. Still, that doesn't stop the BBC giving UKIP wall-to-wall coverage; what about the Green party? They've actually had some success, yet are ignored and I wonder why.

 

Just realised the weirdo in the video is this man - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Monckton,_3rd_Viscount_Monckton_of_Brenchley - Isn't it funny how UKIP batter on about 'unelected bureaucrats' yet they select hereditary peers as candidates. Seriously, people who vote for UKIP are universally ignorant of what they're actually voting for, to say the least.

 

Tbf to the Beeb they get coverage because if statutory rules on % vote share = x coverage. The Greens get coverage up here because they out poll the Scottish UKIP branch.

 

Euroskepticism polls highly in Scotland. As much as it does in England. That polling fact and the eurozone crunch caused the SNP to ditch the euro.

 

If we get a Yes win and the SNP slowly fades in that first parliament and Scots voters turn their minds to Scottish back to day to day politics (like English/Welsh/NI ones do) dont be shocked to see the right do well and parties who back euroskepticism do well. Scotland's politics is unbalanced as a result of the Scottish question, a yes (or no with more powers) win will end that for some time. Dont be shocked to see the old no-eu nats come out the woodwork then should Yes win.

[Don Juan]

Splitting the right-wing vote and all but ensuring a Labour Government at the next General Election. Good stuff.

 

So, much of a muchness then?

[mullen13]

If UK tradesmen can't be competitive with their prices it's their own fault if they fail, I know plenty Brits in the trades who are still thriving even in the current market because they're capable of doing just that, it's common sense that if someone does as good a job as you and has the same qualifications but charges far less they're going to get a job ahead of you so trying to just ignore the situation and blame immigration is just brainless. There's nothing to stop Brits undercutting other Brits, its always happened, so why is a foreigner doing it any different? You also mention "poorer quality"? How? The standard of your average house in this country is horrific in comparison with most of Europe, the walls are virtually cardboard in new builds and riddled with damp and painted over before people have even moved in, even half this jobs done have an attitude of if you can't see it its ok. Even in Western Poland the homes are often better, the walls are solid for starters, never mind Germany which makes much of here look embarrassingly bad.

Nevermind mechanics, the amount of good Scottish mechanics who even forgot rediculous things like putting oil caps back on ffs. Being British is by no means a sign of quality, there's plenty out there who are great but there's plenty who shouldn't even be working, just as with other countries.

 

So when there is already adequate competition in the trades you want to bring cheaper labor in when the guys that were here before already have expensive overheads based on their previous sales and are buying from suppliers at the same price? Why not bring more competition into a field that needs it like say... banking! From my previous experience guys coming in to do a job tend to be poorer quality because they don't have the same training or standards as they do here. I would say there are Scottish guys that are worse but if I am to generalise it would be because in Poland (for example) they tend to be a jack of all trades and not be qualified or specialise in one particular skill. It's more dynamic but you sacrifice quality. If we had a major shortage of them brilliant, keep them coming but there is too much competition.

 

I believe in Germany they have a much higher quality training and apprenticeship system at an early age.

[The White Cockade]

I think there are about 4 million Turks or people of Turkish origin in Germany so mass immigration

doesn't seem to have affected them?

[ToYouToMe]

I think there are about 4 million Turks or people of Turkish origin in Germany so mass immigration

doesn't seem to have affected them?

 

To be fair it is a far bigger country geographically and economically.

 

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

 

 

[dobmisterdobster]

Splitting the right-wing vote and all but ensuring a Labour Government at the next General Election. Good stuff.

 

I've lived through ten years of New Labour and they were shite just like the Tories are now.

 

People are disillusioned with the main parties.

[Alba gu Brath]

Their party emblem is a ? sign. Check the absolute weirdos that appear in this too http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YejLfOsrP4 (especially at 1.50) - UKIP is a party for the reactionary and disaffected underclass, the sort who buy the Daily Mail and insist the MMR vaccination causes autism. They struggle to return deposits in Scotland, thankfully because people here don't buy their reactionary, right-wing nonsense. Still, that doesn't stop the BBC giving UKIP wall-to-wall coverage; what about the Green party? They've actually had some success, yet are ignored and I wonder why.

 

Just realised the weirdo in the video is this man - http://en.wikipedia....on_of_Brenchley - Isn't it funny how UKIP batter on about 'unelected bureaucrats' yet they select hereditary peers as candidates. Seriously, people who vote for UKIP are universally ignorant of what they're actually voting for, to say the least.

 

The guy in the frame looks like he was born to live up to the tag of 'swivel eyed fascist'.

 

UKIP are just the BNP for posh folk.

 

This btw...

 

[londonjambo]

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/02/ukip-party-bigots-lets-look-evidence

[moogsy]

I think there are about 4 million Turks or people of Turkish origin in Germany so mass immigration

doesn't seem to have affected them?

 

Germany is currently having big problems with mass immigration, particularly from Romania and Bulgaria. Several cities have sent out urgent pleas for help to the central government as they are struggling to cope and the level of immigration is putting a massive strain on public services.

 

This is what has happened to a lesser extent in this country with immigration from Eastern European economic migrants and it will only get worse as Romanian and Bulgarian immigrants are now entitled to come to the UK freely.

 

It's not surprising to see a spike in the number of people voting for right wing parties as it's an issue the mainstream parties seem terrified to touch.

[Cade]

Germany is currently having big problems with mass immigration, particularly from Romania and Bulgaria. Several cities have sent out urgent pleas for help to the central government as they are struggling to cope and the level of immigration is putting a massive strain on public services.

 

This is what has happened to a lesser extent in this country with immigration from Eastern European economic migrants and it will only get worse as Romanian and Bulgarian immigrants are now entitled to come to the UK freely.

 

It's not surprising to see a spike in the number of people voting for right wing parties as it's an issue the mainstream parties seem terrified to touch.

Romanians and Bulgars have been free to come here for YEARS and yet no "invasion" has happened. Don't listen to the right-wing gutter press.

[Daydream Believer]

So when there is already adequate competition in the trades you want to bring cheaper labor in when the guys that were here before already have expensive overheads based on their previous sales and are buying from suppliers at the same price? Why not bring more competition into a field that needs it like say... banking! From my previous experience guys coming in to do a job tend to be poorer quality because they don't have the same training or standards as they do here. I would say there are Scottish guys that are worse but if I am to generalise it would be because in Poland (for example) they tend to be a jack of all trades and not be qualified or specialise in one particular skill. It's more dynamic but you sacrifice quality. If we had a major shortage of them brilliant, keep them coming but there is too much competition.

 

I believe in Germany they have a much higher quality training and apprenticeship system at an early age.

 

I don't think I'm exagerating when I say that no British tradesman has ever turned up on time at my house. Sometimes they don't come for days.

 

Now I specificaly hire east europeans who turn up when they say they will, work hard and charge a fair price.

[Shanks said no]

If I was a racist I would vote for them

 

The level of support they have received is quite startling, they are after all the smiling face of the BNP

[moogsy]

 

Romanians and Bulgars have been free to come here for YEARS and yet no "invasion" has happened. Don't listen to the right-wing gutter press.

 

I'm not listening to any right wing gutter press, I'm dealing with facts. I have absolutely no problem with economic immigrants coming here and contributing, I'm an immigrant myself.

 

When it starts to put a strain on the infrastructure of the host country is when it becomes a issue. I suppose the German mayors who have pleaded for help due to being unable to cope with levels of immigration are listening to the right wing gutter press as well?

[Logic1874]

Can anyone name any of their people other than Farage?

 

Who's Farage ?

[The Comedian]

Who's Farage ?

 

It's this guy mate, wearing the airplane...

 

[Alba gu Brath]

It's this guy mate, wearing the airplane...

 

 

...being helped out of his airplane by an eastern European cabbage picker taking time off from his ?2 an hour job...

[Gorgiewave]

I think one of the mistakes of the EU was to admit countries of a markedly lower economic level than those already in. Poles undercut Scots and employers love it; the same happens with Romanians in Spain. I think there should have been tight quotas for a long time to help prevent a lot of the social tension we're now seeing.

[Don Draper]

I think that eurokcepticism is as strong in Scotland as it is anywhere else in the UK. I cant imagine trawlermen, farmers and business men are always fond of the EU. I think the political debate here is different. Wider UK euroskepticism gets a lot of coverage, in Scotland our debate isnt (atm) about Union with Europe, its Union with England, Wales and Northern Ireland.

 

I think its disrespectful to call them nutjobs and racists. I dont like UKIP policies but its low politics to belittle them. As a fringe party which for years has been single issue they obviously attracted nutter supporters and a lot of the right wing protest vote. Now Farage is pushing them from their base to attract "Middle England" voters. Its political evolution, look at the SNP in the 1950s/60s they were derided and maligned as a bunch of Tartan clad bravehearts, the 1970s/80s, again as left wingers and nutter bravehearts, the 1990s and devolution gave them a platform and now they're a majority administration. If England had a devolved parliament under PR they'd do well imo. Its almost like we have the SNP, the Welsh have Plaid Cymru, NI have the DUP/SF/UUP et.al and some of the English have UKIP. Its almost like they are the assertion of English protest and tiredness. Bearing in mind 15 years ago it was he LibDems, 5 ago it was the Greens and now its UKIP, these things are generally flash in the pan. Vote UKIP, give the govt a kick, vote Labour/LibDem/Tory at a general election. Its protest politics. Last time a party broke through big time before the SNP was Labour. And that was after World War 1. The LibDems only stumbling block was the Tories. Had we had a Lab-Lib govt we'd see them doing nicely right now imo.

 

UKIP will vannish in 2015 and reappear at the next EuroParl election or local governemnt.

 

It's actually slightly lower, but only by a handful of percentage points. Which actually surprises me. Don't think I know anyone back home who could be described as 'euroskeptic'.

 

You make some sensible points in the rest of your post, though. You've become very measured recently.

[Euan]

Viscount Monckton a nutter aristocrat plus , Godfery Bloom is their other MEP

 

Loads of ex BNP members EDL , English democrats , national front organisers .

UKIP is the new home to the Far right in England .

Farage gets to easy a time and has celeb status , he also is a fan of visiting strip clubs , wonder if he refuses the advances if the Eastern European girls ?

 

Farage is good at playing the populist card .

 

He said he went once.

[Gorgiewave]

One if the great myths of the independence debates is that Scotland is a social democratic paradise waiting to happen. Orangemen, snide racists, male chauvinists and lazy suspicion of foreigners are all features of daily life. In England, one might find complacent belief on England's greatness, and in Scotland self-righteous and complacent assumption of moral superiority. It's unexamined pish.

[Gorgiewave]

One if the great myths of the independence debates is that Scotland is a social democratic paradise waiting to happen. Orangemen, snide racists, male chauvinists and lazy suspicion of foreigners are all features of daily life. In England, one might find complacent belief on England's greatness, and in Scotland self-righteous and complacent assumption of moral superiority. It's unexamined pish.

[Cade]

Blaming immigrants for low wages when the UK govt is doing its best to remove all worker's rights and rip up the minimum wage........aye good one.

[The Real Maroonblood]

 

Appealing to filthy racists.

 

No thanks.

Bring it on.

[dobmisterdobster]

One if the great myths of the independence debates is that Scotland is a social democratic paradise waiting to happen.

 

Orangemen

 

Are they not the ones wanting to stay in the Union? They can bugger off to Ulster.

 

snide racists, lazy suspicion of foreigners are all features of daily life

 

Compared to all these neo-nazi movements springing up all over Europe. I reckon we are ok.

How many monkey chants and bananas thrown on the pitch do you see in the SPL?

 

male chauvinists

 

????