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'Religious Observance' to be Stopped?


Chester™

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So an Edinburgh parent has started a petition to remove religious observance in schools saying "Religious observance has nothing to do with education but everything to do with religious indoctrination. The Church of Scotland has not owned our schools since 1872. It should retain no privileged access to the education of my child or any other."

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-21542417

 

Whats the thinking then JKB? I'm surprised something like this has taken so long TBH. I mind having to sit through this every Friday morning at Primary School and wondering what use it was to my education. When it was time (as in when we were 'old' enough) to go church, I refused and stayed behind to do other educational activities.

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So an Edinburgh parent has started a petition to remove religious observance in schools saying "Religious observance has nothing to do with education but everything to do with religious indoctrination. The Church of Scotland has not owned our schools since 1872. It should retain no privileged access to the education of my child or any other."

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk...t-fife-21542417

 

Whats the thinking then JKB? I'm surprised something like this has taken so long TBH. I mind having to sit through this every Friday morning at Primary School and wondering what use it was to my education. When it was time (as in when we were 'old' enough) to go church, I refused and stayed behind to do other educational activities.

 

I'm frankly stunned that religious indoctrination still takes place. Get rid pronto.

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Why is she starting this? It seems like such a non-issue. I think we got the odd Bible story at assembly - however, it was normally just a story to try and explain a moral, that the teacher wanted to highlight.

 

Is there any evidence in the falling numbers within the Church that masses of people are being indoctrinated with strong religious beliefs?? Especially teenagers who have a very low church turnout IIRC - yet they are the ones at the schools being 'indoctrinated'.

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I'm 1/4 Jewish and used that to get out of studying RE at school. After much piss taking, my school friends were dismayed to see me go home at 2.30 on a Thursday afternoon while they had to go for an hour of Religious Ed' before home time at 3.30.

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Governor Tarkin

Religious Education is important. Observance is not.

 

Correct.

Edited by Governor Tarkin
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Used to get to hang out with the muslim kids whilst the rest of the school had to go chat about jesus. I got my mum to write me a note.

 

My mum and notes are awesome.

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BoJack Horseman

We used to have to sing all sorts of hymns at our morning assembly during the 90s. Surprised it's still in place tbh. Can't see a need for it. Education on the other hand is definitely needed.

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Snake Plissken

Looking back we got a fair bit of religion at school.

 

A pastor came in to talk to us, I think, once a month and we had to go to church at Christmas and Easter. It was all harmless enough but it didn't serve any real educational purpose. Not need for that kind of thing in 2013.

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I went to a Catholic primary School (St Josephs) and religion was rammed down our throats, brainwashing at it's best. The Catholic schools were very draconian when it came to religion and IMO it did not contribute one iota to my education.

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I went to a Catholic primary School (St Josephs) and religion was rammed down our throats, brainwashing at it's best. The Catholic schools were very draconian when it came to religion and IMO it did not contribute one iota to my education.

 

Bet that's not the only thing that was rammed down the kids' throats.

 

:look:

 

The Minister that came to our school for assemblies etc. was a right weirdo. On the plus side we got to go round to the church every now and again for a schive.

Edited by moogsy
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Did anyone else simply change the words of the hymns to make them as rude as possible?

 

p.s. Petition signed.

Edited by BigC
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maroonlegions

Parents are not being advised of their right to withdraw;

 

YouGov report;

 

Typical,my lad goes to the Cubs and my two girls go to the Brownies, we have a right to withdraw them but not from religious observance at their school, even getting taught in a historical formate religion is still dangerous in my view, why cause its a history lesson based on faith not facts, can real faith in any thing for that matter be taught ,can it be rammed down a kids or anybody's throat for that matter and be considered real personal faith, what kind of faith does one produced if that faith is based on another's version of what constitutes faith ,in its purest form faith cannot be taught, you either have it or you do not but to try and produce it by religious observance is producing a faith based on a fairy story, fortunately kids today are more clued up,more confidant and can see through pesh when it is required and long may it continue. :smuggy:

Edited by maroonlegions
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Junior CF11 came back from toddler group the other day with some colouring-in. At the top of the page was printed "God made cats".

 

Jeepers... That would cause Richard Dawkins to explode.

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Edinburgh Secular Society are running the campaign, they need (must get!) 500 people to sign the petition to force Edinburgh Council to discuss the issue and potentially hold a city -wide referendum on stopping Religious Observance (RO) in non-denominational schools. (you need an Edinburgh address to sign)

 

The campaign was instigated by a group of Edinburgh mothers sick to death of evangelical Christians forcing their faith on children at school. See this article in yesterday's Evening News

 

Religious groups have been smug believing that the petition would get no where near the required number of 500 (there was a debate on Radio Scotland today) - but... the number of signatures currently stands at 310 after only being live for 24hrs, to reach the required number over the weekend would send a clear a message to the Churches and local politicians.

 

Time for the secular voice to be heard and to challenge this outdated religious privilege - schools are for teaching not preaching!

 

get signing guys!!

Edited by ADAM
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Did anyone else simply change the words of the hymns to make them as rude as possible?

 

p.s. Petition signed.

 

Yup. My whole year did that during 'hymn practice', on a constant basis, which either led to the teacher slamming her hands down on the piano and going a bit mental or us getting removed from the practice. :lol:

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As has been said, religious education is important. But it is strange that in a multi cultural and multi religious society we still have one particular religion being observed in schools.

 

Because of my wife's beliefs our kids are pulled out of observances at Easter and Christmas. The issue isn't being educated about religion. It's about the fact that kids are being asked to observe 'religious services'. In effect, worship.

 

It's about time the UK followed France' stand on the matter. A secular society is fairer and non discriminatory.

 

As well as our kids, there are Muslim kids and I think one other atheist kid that gets pulled out of these services. They sit and play games somewhere and I get the impression that the other kids feel like pulling the old 'abstinence on grounds of conscience card' to get out of the whole religious observance side of school. :lol: Though admittedly, there are some parents who believe the teaching of the COS so I would imagine that the services suit them just fine.

 

But in spite of all of that it really is astonishing that one single religion is observed at schools, in this day & age.

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As has been said, religious education is important. But it is strange that in a multi cultural and multi religious society we still have one particular religion being observed in schools.

 

But in spite of all of that it really is astonishing that one single religion is observed at schools, in this day & age.

 

I agree. That was certainly the case when I was at Primary School, though when I went to High School, there was no religious observance though RE managed to teach us about a number of varying religions (even if it was a skive). That was always the ethos of the school and still is.

 

I think Primary School is starting to change. My mate teaches in Primary and he has to give some kind of overview because of the number of religions in the school. But he also teaches about 'how to be a good citizen' minus any religious chat. He struggles a wee bit, I think, because he doesnt believe at all.

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craig, you just summed it up for me really.

 

i remember sitting through services at school, although only particular holidays. i went to a non denominational, predominantly protestant school.

 

 

i think religion should be taught in school, as a tool to let kids see that all religions and people are basically the same, but they should not be taught prayers or worship or that they are sinners etc.

 

observance has no place in schools. if the family is religious, let them follow in their own time. each to their own as far as i'm concerned

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CavySlaveJambo

I signed the petition. I think even if this petition fails the opt-out must be explained to every parent and an appropriate activity provided for those who are opted-out rather than things that are seen as a punishment.

 

You are taught about religions in RME, that should stay but forcing the practice of religion onto people is against their human rights.

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kingantti1874

Sounds good, and catholic schools should be closed down also, if the a better way to cause division in society I've yet to see it... Ridiculous

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ArmiyaRomanova

Signed....

 

But, interestingly, given that a few folk on here have also signed, the total signatories still stands at 310 (as of 8am 23/2/13).

 

 

And for what it's worth, in my view religious organisations should have no more rights or privileges than, for example, a badminton club or other niche interest society.

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There seems to be an issue as I was also told it was only signed by 310.

 

I believe the Council are doing an IT upgrade this weekend. I wouldnt worry too much.

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FinnBarr Saunders

Signed....

 

But, interestingly, given that a few folk on here have also signed, the total signatories still stands at 310 (as of 8am 23/2/13).

 

 

And for what it's worth, in my view religious organisations should have no more rights or privileges than, for example, a badminton club or other niche interest society.

There seems to be an issue as I was also told it was only signed by 310.

Signed and it still says 310.

still just showing 310 signatures :11200:

 

This is great, its just like a sort of religious ticket thread

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RE should be about a discussion of the major religions.. their beliefs, lifestyles etc.. it should aim to educate those who do not know or understand those religions foreign to their own.

Perhaps through time there would come an understanding and at least judgement could be made with knowledge rather than ignorance.

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Having a daughter in P7 I'm happy enough for her to get some RE but I can see why some aren't happy about it also .

I would be interested to find out if the parents who take their kid(s) out of RE still celebrate Christmas day tho

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Having a daughter in P7 I'm happy enough for her to get some RE but I can see why some aren't happy about it also .

I would be interested to find out if the parents who take their kid(s) out of RE still celebrate Christmas day tho

 

Be interesting to see if they eat pancakes.

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FinnBarr Saunders

Having a daughter in P7 I'm happy enough for her to get some RE but I can see why some aren't happy about it also .

I would be interested to find out if the parents who take their kid(s) out of RE still celebrate Christmas day tho

 

Please bear in mind that the winter solstice was in place before any god botherer was on these shores

Edited by bikerjambo
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We used to have to sing all sorts of hymns at our morning assembly during the 90s.

 

"He who would valiant be,

'Gainst all disaster.

Let him in constancy,

Follow the Master.

There's no discouragement,

Shall make him once relent,

His first avowed intent,

To be a penguin".

 

"God is love,

His the care,

Tending each! Ev'rywhere,

God is love, all is there!

Jesus came to show Him,

That mankind might know Him.

Be a lout, lout, lout!

Be a lout, lout, lout!

God is good! God is truth!

God is beauty, **** Him."

 

:note: :note: :note: :note: :note:

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In case anyone gets annoyed, by the way, I should explain that the above were *******ised versions which, unbeknownst to the teachers, a few of us sung during assembly. Kids will be kids, and all that.

 

Thing is though, what harm does singing hymns at school actually do? None at all that I can see. Keep in mind that, when I was about 6, and we were first told the story of Adam and Eve, while everyone else looked in wonder at the teacher, I was the one sitting there with my tongue pressed against the inside of my chin, making that "Well dur" face that kids do. I knew it was bollocks even then. :)

 

Yet the hymns were just about teaching the same sort of basic, common sense values which education itself seeks to instill the world over. Ditto when, before we always sang Jerusalem at the end of each term at secondary school, the school chaplain would read the same psalm and tell us all to "go out into the world in peace".

 

Despite my not believing in God, Make Me A Channel Of Your Peace is actually one of my favourite songs of any kind anywhere: the lyrics are beautiful. Same with Amazing Grace actually. And then there's the Lord's Prayer: the musical version of which we always sang at primary school:

 

"Our Father who art in heaven,

Hallow'ed be thy name,

Thy Kingdom come,

Thy will be done on earth, as it is in heaven.

Give us this day our daily bread,

And forgive us our trespasses,

As we forgive those who trespass against us.

And lead us not into temptation

But deliver us from evil!

For thine is the Kingdom

The power and the glory!

For ever, and ever,

Amen".

 

Seriously - what is the problem with any of that? It's harmless and peaceable. I can't believe that it places any sort of pressure on anyone, be they of faith or no faith; and in the end, the aim of education is to teach us to think for ourselves. The extremely gentle form of religious observance which goes on in British schools has no impact on that whatsoever - and teaching children to look out for others, and not to walk by on the other side, is every bit as important now as it's ever been.

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Christ, you were a rebel at school Shaun!

 

True story: when aged 10, I resigned my prefect badge out of fury at the behaviour of the head boy, and his continually being indulged by the staff while a mate of mine and fellow prefect (until they demoted him - so I leant him my badge for a school interview) was picked on by them constantly. So at lunchtime, I sat calmly writing my resignation letter, then just popped it under the Headmaster's door. :vrface: At that age, how did I even know such a thing existed?

 

Also that year, I missed every single RE class because of my recorder lessons elsewhere in the school. Yet at the final exam, I got the top mark anyway. :lol: I've still got the prize I was awarded as a result: "Harrow and Harvest" by Barbara Willard, a novel about the English Civil War. It's sitting here beside me as I type this. :)

 

And at secondary school, I took Jewish RE classes instead - and as my father was an atheist, my wonderful teacher took it upon herself to organise my Barmitzvah, which happened one Sunday in December 1990. That's a lovely memory - she was fantastic. :)

Edited by shaun.lawson
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My daughter had great RE lessons at school. Much better than mine. She knew a sight more than I did about religions other than Christianity. I'm Christian and go to church, on me own when there are no services on. She went, of her own accord to Sunday school with her pals. She's been an atheist since she was about 12 or 13 but is very well informed on the subject and I see no need for 'observance' but every need for instruction. Bigotry comes from a lack of understanding and ignorance.

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Happy for kids to get religious education classes that tell them a bit about what all the religions are about. It's good that they get to learn that they are all as absurd as each other.

 

No bairn should be made to sing any hymns or say prayers at school though.

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Please bear in mind that the winter solstice was in place before any god botherer was on these shores

Not debating that my friend just curious that's all

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In case anyone gets annoyed, by the way, I should explain that the above were *******ised versions which, unbeknownst to the teachers, a few of us sung during assembly. Kids will be kids, and all that.

 

Thing is though, what harm does singing hymns at school actually do? None at all that I can see. Keep in mind that, when I was about 6, and we were first told the story of Adam and Eve, while everyone else looked in wonder at the teacher, I was the one sitting there with my tongue pressed against the inside of my chin, making that "Well dur" face that kids do. I knew it was bollocks even then. :)

 

Yet the hymns were just about teaching the same sort of basic, common sense values which education itself seeks to instill the world over. Ditto when, before we always sang Jerusalem at the end of each term at secondary school, the school chaplain would read the same psalm and tell us all to "go out into the world in peace".

 

Despite my not believing in God, Make Me A Channel Of Your Peace is actually one of my favourite songs of any kind anywhere: the lyrics are beautiful. Same with Amazing Grace actually. And then there's the Lord's Prayer: the musical version of which we always sang at primary school:

 

"Our Father who art in heaven,

Hallow'ed be thy name,

Thy Kingdom come,

Thy will be done on earth, as it is in heaven.

Give us this day our daily bread,

And forgive us our trespasses,

As we forgive those who trespass against us.

And lead us not into temptation

But deliver us from evil!

For thine is the Kingdom

The power and the glory!

For ever, and ever,

Amen".

 

Seriously - what is the problem with any of that? It's harmless and peaceable. I can't believe that it places any sort of pressure on anyone, be they of faith or no faith; and in the end, the aim of education is to teach us to think for ourselves. The extremely gentle form of religious observance which goes on in British schools has no impact on that whatsoever - and teaching children to look out for others, and not to walk by on the other side, is every bit as important now as it's ever been.

 

 

Trespassers? What's this Anglican evil you spout? Guid Scottish lads and lassies were taught to 'forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors'.

 

The annual church visit was the worst day of the year when I was at school. Have only attended church for hatches, matches and dispatches since.

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If people wish to observe their bullshit religions then they do it in their time and not on the states.

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