FOH ready to pay "Fair Price"

[Clerry Jambo]

http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-evening-news/latest-news/foundation-ready-to-pay-fair-price-to-win-hearts-1-2728902

[Zachearts]

Would love to think they would get somewere with this but I can't help but think that Alex Mackies pissing in the wind.

[Clerry Jambo]

Would love to think they would get somewere with this but I can't help but think that Alex Mackies pissing in the wind.

 

He may well be mate but Romanov has had his day and we need change

[Zachearts]

 

 

He may well be mate but Romanov has had his day and we need change

Anything has to be better than Romanov at this moment in time but he isn't going to be easy to deal with.

[Craig Herbertson]

I'd trust any consortium which meets Donald Ford's approval. The man's integrity is legendary. If they can come up with an acceptable offer the signals the fans have already given may well enourage soem bigger concerns.

[Francis Albert]

A fair price for us is ?1 and is overpriced by millions at that.

 

I hope they can come to a deal but the more I think about its less likely to happen.

 

?1 with no debt, stadium included?

[loveofthegame]

I await the next offer with great interest.

 

Don't see Romanov accepting anything less than something completely over the odds though, and don't see that coming in.

[Jezza]

Something's got to give for the sake of the club.

[Francis Albert]

No I've assumed that will bought in current state until I hear otherwise.

 

Hence my very generous valuation.

 

You are then being very generous. I am sure Vlad would snap up ?1 if the debt was taken on.

[davieholt]

I suppose a 'fair price' might be what Vlad would get if he folded the club now - i.e. the value of fixed assets less the costs associated with making staff redundant. On that basis, ?6m or ?7m would appear reasonable.

 

Can FOH lay their hands on that kind of money ?

[Dr. Bapswent]

I suppose a 'fair price' might be what Vlad would get if he folded the club now - i.e. the value of fixed assets less the costs associated with making staff redundant. On that basis, ?6m or ?7m would appear reasonable.

 

Can FOH lay their hands on that kind of money ?

 

Its not can they - its do they want to.

[Seymour M Hersh]

I suppose it all depends on whether their idea of "fair" is the same or close to Vlad's idea of "fair"!

[doctor jambo]

We are worthless. ?1 is fair

A company essentially in administration with debt up to our eyeballs and runing at a continual loss

falling asset values due to the real estate collapse and player valuation falls in this recession

Make no mistake, if we were a "normal" company we would be currently doing a Comet or a Jessops

[Francis Albert]

We are worthless. ?1 is fair

A company essentially in administration with debt up to our eyeballs and runing at a continual loss

falling asset values due to the real estate collapse and player valuation falls in this recession

Make no mistake, if we were a "normal" company we would be currently doing a Comet or a Jessops

 

 

True. Just as well our debts are owed to who they are owed to really.

 

But to say ?1 is fair you have to say what the ?1 is for. If liquidated, the creditors would come out with considerably more than ?1. If the club is sold with assets but no debt (as FoH want) , it is worth considerably more than ?1.

[Clerry Jambo]

I suppose a 'fair price' might be what Vlad would get if he folded the club now -

 

.......I think that's the bottom line

[desmondo]

Why all the cloak and dagger stuff, honest i dont get it

 

Make an offer see where you stand

[Boris]

I think that it's encouraging that FOH are submitting another bid.

 

If successful, then the processes re pledges, representation etc MUST become transparent.

 

However, wouldn't it be better to have this out in the open first so that the fans can really get behind it, making the chances of success greater?

[soonbe110]

Anything has to be better than Romanov at this moment in time but he isn't going to be easy to deal with.

Surely you don't believe Massone would be a better bet than the current owner?

[soonbe110]

?1 with no debt, stadium included?

You are dreaming I think.

[Francis Albert]

You are dreaming I think.

 

Not me.

[Craigieboy]

Talkers.

 

That's all they are.

[davieholt]

I suppose a 'fair price' might be what Vlad would get if he folded the club now - i.e. the value of fixed assets less the costs associated with making staff redundant. On that basis, ?6m or ?7m would appear reasonable.

 

Can FOH lay their hands on that kind of money ?

 

Oops, I forgot we owe HMRC ?2.5m so ?4.5m is probably nearer the mark

[Francis Albert]

Oops, I forgot we owe HMRC ?2.5m so ?4.5m is probably nearer the mark

 

I thought it was ?1.5m after the settlement.

[jamboinglasgow]

All this talk of a "fair price" is fantasy, the important figure is what price Romanov puts on the club as that is the only way he will sell.

[doctor jambo]

True. Just as well our debts are owed to who they are owed to really.

 

But to say ?1 is fair you have to say what the ?1 is for. If liquidated, the creditors would come out with considerably more than ?1. If the club is sold with assets but no debt (as FoH want) , it is worth considerably more than ?1.

?1 - full monty, assets, stadium, and debt

[Clerry Jambo]

All this talk of a "fair price" is fantasy, the important figure is what price Romanov puts on the club as that is the only way he will sell.

 

You get the impression though that Romanov has never said what he wants, although that is speculation ofcourse

[Francis Albert]

?1 - full monty, assets, stadium, and debt

 

So you think FoH should pay over ?20m, which is what taking on the debt would mean?

[davieholt]

I thought it was ?1.5m after the settlement.

 

You may be right. In fact, IIRC we are down for ?0.5m a year for 3 years so yes. Remembering isn't my strong suit !

 

Okay revise that to ?5.5m give or take.

[jamboinglasgow]

You get the impression though that Romanov has never said what he wants, although that is speculation ofcourse

 

He may never have said an exact price but he certainly has hinted clearly he expects some money from the sale, the previous bid showed that.

[Francis Albert]

I think that it's encouraging that FOH are submitting another bid.

 

If successful, then the processes re pledges, representation etc MUST become transparent.

 

However, wouldn't it be better to have this out in the open first so that the fans can really get behind it, making the chances of success greater?

 

Agreed. I actually think FoH have a bit of a cheek to claim to be acting on behalf of "the fans" when they have been unwilling and/or uunable to answer most of the very basic questions the fans have asked them.

[Clerry Jambo]

He may never have said an exact price but he certainly has hinted clearly he expects some money from the sale, the previous bid showed that.

 

yip

[davieholt]

All this talk of a "fair price" is fantasy, the important figure is what price Romanov puts on the club as that is the only way he will sell.

 

But Romanov wants out. He's made that abundantly clear. There is also speculation that the economic downturn has damaged his empire significantly so, at a time when cash is king, there may be pressure to cut his losses as far as Hearts are concerned.

 

In addition, his asset value could collapse if the old stand is condemned by Health and Safety and the stadium maintenance costs are rising anyway. There is no white knight on the horizon to buy 'with the heart'. Perhaps he could be persuaded that it is better to get something like the break-up value in his hands now rather than wait for a long drawn out wind up ?

 

I know we are talking about Vlad here and logic seldom figures much in such discussions but he is also a business man and, by all accounts, a good one. His business head may just hold sway

[Gorgieshed]

 

 

You get the impression though that Romanov has never said what he wants, although that is speculation ofcourse

 

I asked FoH is they have asked Vlad to name a price, never got a reply...

[Jambos_1874]

I suppose a 'fair price' might be what Vlad would get if he folded the club now - i.e. the value of fixed assets less the costs associated with making staff redundant. On that basis, ?6m or ?7m would appear reasonable.

 

Can FOH lay their hands on that kind of money ?

 

This. Vlad has got accept he is going to make a loss on this particular venture and hand the club over to an organisation with the club's best interests at heart. The problem is that Romanov is not a reasonable person and therefore I suspect he is going to make this whole process drawn out and painful.

[The Mighty Thor]

True. Just as well our debts are owed to who they are owed to really.

 

But to say ?1 is fair you have to say what the ?1 is for. If liquidated, the creditors would come out with considerably more than ?1. If the club is sold with assets but no debt (as FoH want) , it is worth considerably more than ?1.

Ultimately the club is only worth what someone is prepared to pay for it.

 

Doctor's point is valid as is yours.

 

We don't have visibility of the current asset values (proper market values and not the mickey mouse ones Vlad keeps banging on about) or the true extent of the liabilities (including the forgotten HMRC ones). I'm sure in the process of due diligence FOH will have had a shufty at 'the books' and will be basing any offer on those numbers.

 

Hopefully this will progress things towards the point where Romanov and his menagerie feck off to whence they came and the football club can get on with existing and then rebuilding.

[Paolo]

We are worthless. ?1 is fair

A company essentially in administration with debt up to our eyeballs and runing at a continual loss

falling asset values due to the real estate collapse and player valuation falls in this recession

Make no mistake, if we were a "normal" company we would be currently doing a Comet or a Jessops

 

?1 is not fair if he will get a lot more by liquidating us, which he would.

[Paolo]

This. Vlad has got accept he is going to make a loss on this particular venture and hand the club over to an organisation with the club's best interests at heart. The problem is that Romanov is not a reasonable person and therefore I suspect he is going to make this whole process drawn out and painful.

 

You mean like me? That does not guarantee ability.

[BobbyJenkins]

So the fans are still funding the buy out if FOH have their way... still have my doubts.

[Zachearts]

So the fans are still funding the buy out if FOH have their way... still have my doubts.

 

we all have our doubts but FOH are the only show in town so let's see were it goes.

[Paolo]

The link was not working, but is now - definately sounds like fans paying for them to own and run the club,

 

I do not think they have money or do but are not prepared to use it, so it will be interesting to see what their 'fair price' is and if they finally confirm what you get for your pledge if successful and exactly how much say you will have. Hopefully if and when they return to the Q&A thread, they will actually make this clear.

[Coco]

How are the G10 responding to the latest developments?

 

The article says that Hearts want to create a solution within the G10 - while the FoH are offering seats on the Board to the G10.

 

Are they going to be kingmakers?

[JamboX2]

Should the Club and FOH not sit down with the G10 to work something out? Or alternatively should the G10 with the backing of their members sit down together and issue a statement saying what they would like to see happen? Seems like the club are playing both parties. For what it's worth I don't think there is a clear intent to sell on behalf of the board. If there was something more constructive, in terms of a plan or talks would have been ongoing.

[Super Marius]

It's hugely encouraging that after gaining access to the books and viewing the no doubt horror show that they were, FOH are looking to make a second bid.

 

We can't accept Alex Mackie and Ann Budge or whoever is linked to the FoH to chuck all their money at this bid just because they are richer than the vast majority of us. They've got the ball rolling, hopefully they can broker a deal and then it's up to all of us to make the pledge. It's not difficult - 10 quid a month to have the privilege of saying "I am a member of the club that I love." If 4,000 folk who bought into the shares at a lump sum of ?110 a head minimum raised a million (yes I know some bought more than others and there was fund raisers etc) in such a short space of time, imagine that same number of people contributed just a tenner a month over the course of a year. How many more would be encouraged to do the same?

 

It's fastly approaching the end game. I don't believe Vlad will let us fold. He's got too much of an ego to be seen ultimately as a failure if he let the club go bust. He will sell to someone at some point. Of that I think there is no doubt. It's just a waiting game now albeit a very long, drawn out and painful one. More low points to come and players to exit, but there is an end in sight (or so I like to keep telling myself!)

[Thig Ar Latha]

Talkers.

 

That's all they are.

 

At least they're talking to the owner, not just giving opinions from a keyboard. Good luck to them.

[Deevers]

The only real way forward that I see to all of this is for FOH to find another partner with financial clout to take this forward. It might mean in the short term FOH might not actually have the majority stake in the club - however it's something to aspire to in the future.

[Gregory House M.D.]

Any offer would have to be more than Romanov would recieve by liquidating the club and selling the land.

 

This whole "we are worthless" argument is bollocks. All companies are worth what the assets can be sold for. The debt is a mere sideshow as you can easily take care of that by liquidation or administration.

 

You can't expect the owner of a company to sell their company for a ?1 when the man they're selling to could sell the land and liquidate the company. That's just ridiculous.

[rossthejambo]

I'll believe it when I see it.

[naeclue]

I suppose Rangers give some kind of benchmark - bought out of administration for around 5m?

 

Am I right in saying they gave Massone the f off straight away? It'd suggest that either he isn't really in funds, or else VR isn't as skint as all that.

[Balmain]

Any offer would have to be more than Romanov would recieve by liquidating the club and selling the land.

 

This whole "we are worthless" argument is bollocks. All companies are worth what the assets can be sold for. The debt is a mere sideshow as you can easily take care of that by liquidation or administration.

 

You can't expect the owner of a company to sell their company for a ?1 when the man they're selling to could sell the land and liquidate the company. That's just ridiculous.

 

Agree. The land has a nearly ?7m security on it with UKIO. Any offer to buy Hearts will need to at least settle this debt. This would still leave Ubig taking a big hit on their balance sheet.

?7m is a lot to pay for Tynecastle as it will need many more millions spent on it in the near future.

It will also need to be someone with their own money as there is little chance of gaining bank finance to buy a Scottish football club.

[May one-six]

Any offer would have to be more than Romanov would recieve by liquidating the club and selling the land.

 

This whole "we are worthless" argument is bollocks. All companies are worth what the assets can be sold for. The debt is a mere sideshow as you can easily take care of that by liquidation or administration.

 

You can't expect the owner of a company to sell their company for a ?1 when the man they're selling to could sell the land and liquidate the company. That's just ridiculous.

So you're expecting Hearts fans and the local council, who control what happens on land in Edinburgh, to stand by and watch while Vlad liquidates the club and sells Tynecastle? Seriously?