Russian Hats Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 http://www.lithuaniabasketball.com/news-1035-romanov-asking-fans-to-save-zalgiris.html As an aside didn't realise they we're doing so well. At least Vlad is more transparent now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 I think that confirms once and for all that this isn't a case of won't pay. It's can't pay. Not so much morally bankrupt as, it would appear, actually bankrupt - or perilously close, at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maroonlegions Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Makes you really wonder how he ever accumulated all his fortune and more to the point his business strategies ect that enabled him to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McClure Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 here comes 10 pages of vlad seethe and hatred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jezza Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Aye, looks like Romanov is in the financial shite which is even more of a disaster for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naeclue Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Maybe he's been pleasantly surprised by how well things went with us? I agree, it looks like he's hard up, the shift in the floating point charge is perhaps significant here? Still fan base is strong at least, and maybe there's a possibility that we end up independent. Live in hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munch Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 should make front page of the Evening Hobo tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Makes you really wonder how he ever accumulated all his fortune and more to the point his business strategies ect that enabled him to do so. Maybe by spotting ways to get people to cough up money? Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeartsForever Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Nothing like a touch of emotional blackmail. What a rat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudiboy Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 here comes 10 pages of vlad seethe and hatred And!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 This can't be right. He hates Hearts and has been using our money to make sure his LIFF basketball team are winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jezza Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 This can't be right. He hates Hearts and has been using our money to make sure his LIFF basketball team are winning. Or he can't be arsed with hearts so is begging his basketball sides support directly and getting his lackies to do the same with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Nothing like a touch of emotional blackmail. What a rat. Expecting fans to fund their club? Will never catch on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paolo Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 should make front page of the Evening Hobo tomorrow. Not only that, I think Hugh Keevins will be chugging away as I type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Or he can't be arsed with hearts so is begging his basketball sides support directly and getting his lackies to do the same with us. Or he's been absolutely hammered by the recession and is trying to preserve what he can for his family and the last stages of his life. Selfish like. Should be pissing it away on a football team in some backwater league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Begging fans for money to bail out his mismanagement will definitely not catch on. Though, fair do's, he's going to give it a shot it appears. Well he splashed a lot of money before turning to the fans. Others have cottoned on that its's better to go straight to the fans without that expensive intermediary stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 I think he's also been hammered by his own mismanagement of certain of his businesses. Probably a mixture of both. He's a risk taker and this one has backfired. That's life eh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jezza Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Or he's been absolutely hammered by the recession and is trying to preserve what he can for his family and the last stages of his life. Selfish like. Should be pissing it away on a football team in some backwater league. I totally agree. That's why he shouldn't ave sanctioned 2 and 3 year deals for players he was going to have to pay for an if he was in this trouble last year he shouldn't have brought in others then. Same again in the summer. The fact he's asking his basketball sides supporters to bail them out also is extremely worrying for us though. It seems there is no back up whatsoever from Vlad and he won't just give up the club and the ground and will want something back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jezza Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 WAGE FEIFF LIFF MAD VLAD OOT LIFFUANIA! Great addition to the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Cool that makes it fine then. It lends perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jezza Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Probably a mixture of both. He's a risk taker and this one has backfired. That's life eh. All his sports ventures seemed to have backfired from Belaurus to his basketball side. Coincidence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 I totally agree. That's why he shouldn't ave sanctioned 2 and 3 year deals for players he was going to have to pay for an if he was in this trouble last year he shouldn't have brought in others then. Same again in the summer. The fact he's asking his basketball sides supporters to bail them out also is extremely worrying for us though. It seems there is no back up whatsoever from Vlad and he won't just give up the club and the ground and will want something back. Did you believe otherwise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jezza Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Did you believe otherwise? I thought there could be a chance to rent back the ground or buy it on a long term mortgage by Romanov/UBIG. It seems they are strapped for cash and this can only spell trouble. I can't see anyone buying us with the debt and I can't see Romanov selling without making financial gains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 All his sports ventures seemed to have backfired from Belaurus to his basketball side. Coincidence? I've never really paid attention to his other ventures, I wouldn't say he's failed at Hearts. We've won two trophies in 6 years which is the aim of the game after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alwaysthereinspirit Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Who'll play Mad Vlad in the movie? I'm going for Daniel Craig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maroonlegions Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Maybe by spotting ways to get people to cough up money? Just a thought. Ah the wonders of Capitalism , just hope we as a club do not suffer in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munch Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 They will be kicking russian furry hats about outside the basketball arena in protest next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jezza Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 I've never really paid attention to his other ventures, I wouldn't say he's failed at Hearts. We've won two trophies in 6 years which is the aim of the game after all. He's lost lots and lots and lots of money leaving the club on the brink. On the pitch of course there's been success but I suppose it all depends on what he bought the club for in the first place. If he bought is with the intention of winning the Scottish a couple of times it might be worth all the money he's spent. I suspect it probably wasn't for that though as good as it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeartsForever Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Expecting fans to fund their club? Will never catch on. I know, especially as your average Lithuanian must also have masses of disposable income like us at this time of year during a global recession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 I thought there could be a chance to rent back the ground or buy it on a long term mortgage by Romanov/UBIG. It seems they are strapped for cash and this can only spell trouble. I can't see anyone buying us with the debt and I can't see Romanov selling without making financial gains. I always felt some cash upfront would be required. If he is desperate (and I never take anything to do with Vlad at face value) this must make FoH's or anyone else's negotiating position stronger, surely. All this news does for me is to place some doubt on the fact he has money but is choosing to spend it on things other than Hearts, which was the moan from some beefore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jezza Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 I always felt some cash upfront would be required. If he is desperate (and I never take anything to do with Vlad at face value) this must make FoH's or anyone else's negotiating position stronger, surely. All this news does for me is to place some doubt on the fact he has money but is choosing to spend it on things other than Hearts, which was the moan from some beefore. Yeah totally. I hope he's very realistic for both the club and his sake though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 I know, especially as your average Lithuanian must also have masses of disposable income like us at this time of year during a global recession. I may be wrong but last I read Lithuania was one of the few European economies still growing through the recession. And at least it's only about ?25 quid each for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldcastlerock2012 Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Cool that makes it fine then. Not really but we did have success and who knows if the credit crunch hadn't hit how we could have progressed. I think some people don't realise just how serious the global financial crisis was - and it's not over yet. At least having our debt with a 'friendly' bank protected us for a while at least. Vlad isn't the first and won't be the last to see a lot of his wealth and businesses go up in smoke, forcing him to take drastic action. Lots more football clubs are also going to be in trouble (and no orcs looking in - it's not because rangers are in div 3) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Stinkfinger Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 can you sign on by fax ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Comedian Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Know what I'll be doing? Keeping a good eye on the uptake of this and If it's not good enough for me I'll have a rager about it for weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 I think we can take this as confirmation that Vlad can't pay rather than won't pay with regard to Hearts. It is bad news for Hearts as it is now seemingly inevitble that some players could be given frees if transfer fees are not forthcoming in January. The longer term financing of the ?500K a year tax bill also looks somewhat onerous. If Vlad is indeed in financial difficulty, then the share offer itself can also be viewed as a slap in the face to fans, with regard to only 10% of the club being on offer. When Vlad bought the club, there were 12.6M shares in circulation for which Vlad was prepared to pay 35p a share. With the subsequent dilution following the various DfE swaps, there were 146M shares pre-offer. If the club was valued as it was in 2005, the the current shares should have been offered at 3p a share, allowing fans to own up to 38% of the club in exchange for the proposed ?1.79M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 I think we can take this as confirmation that Vlad can't pay rather than won't pay with regard to Hearts. It is bad news for Hearts as it is now seemingly inevitble that some players could be given frees if transfer fees are not forthcoming in January. The longer term financing of the ?500K a year tax bill also looks somewhat onerous. If Vlad is indeed in financial difficulty, then the share offer itself can also be viewed as a slap in the face to fans, with regard to only 10% of the club being on offer. When Vlad bought the club, there were 12.6M shares in circulation for which Vlad was prepared to pay 35p a share. With the subsequent dilution following the various DfE swaps, there were 146M shares pre-offer. If the club was valued as it was in 2005, the the current shares should have been offered at 3p a share, allowing fans to own up to 38% of the club in exchange for the proposed ?1.79M. If the club was valued as it was in 2005 the new owners would also take on or pay off the debts as Vlad did, which I don't think anyone expects to happen. With currrent debts 3p a share would greatly overvalue the club, but then the shareoffer was never reflective of the club's value and no-one pretended it was. But your (I think very flawed) methodology interestingly came up with a value for the club of just under ?5m, whiich might well get Vlad's attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 This is not confirmation of a 'can't pay' climate within Romanov's finances at all. There is not one iota of confirmation of such a thing contained within that article. Further evidence to back up the theory? Yes I suppose it is. Confirmation? Naw. Romanov has said in the past that he's wasted too much money on his sporting schemes. Hearts have already been told that there will be no further UBIG philanthropy. The very same thing could also be true of Zalgiris. Tales of "actual bankruptcy... or perilously close". Pish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maroonlegions Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 This is not confirmation of a 'can't pay' climate within Romanov's finances at all. There is not one iota of confirmation of such a thing contained within that article. Further evidence to back up the theory? Yes I suppose it is. Confirmation? Naw. Romanov has said in the past that he's wasted too much money on his sporting schemes. Hearts have already been told that there will be no further UBIG philanthropy. The very same thing could also be true of Zalgiris. Tales of "actual bankruptcy... or perilously close". Pish. I see were you are going with this, and yes you are correct with its all fine and dandy to speculate but confirmation is another ball game. Untill Vlad goes public with" yip i am skint as the Hobos home support" then i will not panic monger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzzbomb Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Wouldn't surprise me if FoH haven't already done a deal with vlad for the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory House M.D. Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Aye, looks like Romanov is in the financial shite which is even more of a disaster for us. Not necessarily true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 I see were you are going with this, and yes you are correct with its all fine and dandy to speculate but confirmation is another ball game. Untill Vlad goes public with" yip i am skint as the Hobos home support" then i will not panic monger. Precisely. I would have had nothing to say if certain people had kept their pants on and evaluated the information as further circumstantial evidence to suggest that there is a financial crisis at UBIG in general. But of course the JKB way is to twist it still further into "confirmation". Wild speculation. A tightening of the belt and a paradigm shift from a previous era of reckless spending. Yes. Proof of imminent bankruptcy. Fairy tales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 If the club was valued as it was in 2005 the new owners would also take on or pay off the debts as Vlad did, which I don't think anyone expects to happen. With currrent debts 3p a share would greatly overvalue the club, but then the shareoffer was never reflective of the club's value and no-one pretended it was. But your (I think very flawed) methodology interestingly came up with a value for the club of just under ?5m, whiich might well get Vlad's attention. I appreciate that the methodology I used is a bit flaky, but in 2005 the debt was almost 100% secured against the value of the stadium (i.e. the value of Cala's proposed site development). I think that the current value of the stadium is maybe as little as ?6M. That loss in value (negative equity) has to be borne by Vlad, just as you would have to do if you ended up with negative equity for your home / mortgage. Extending my (flaky) theory further, I'd suggest that the "club" is probably worth around ?8m-?10M with Tynecastle included and only ?2m-?4M without the property. Would Vlad be prepared to "deal" or "no deal" at those figures? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 I appreciate that the methodology I used is a bit flaky, but in 2005 the debt was almost 100% secured against the value of the stadium (i.e. the value of Cala's proposed site development). I think that the current value of the stadium is maybe as little as ?6M. That loss in value (negative equity) has to be borne by Vlad, just as you would have to do if you ended up with negative equity for your home / mortgage. Extending my (flaky) theory further, I'd suggest that the "club" is probably worth around ?8m-?10M with Tynecastle included and only ?2m-?4M without the property. Would Vlad be prepared to "deal" or "no deal" at those figures? That's about what my back of a fag packet (more like back of a postage stamp TBH) said on another thread. Who knows what Vlad would deal at but if he is short of cash rather than just deciding to cut his losses on sports ventures (still not clear) then I would guess that a bid at half your numbers would be in with a shout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Bishop Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Wouldn't surprise me if FoH haven't already done a deal with vlad for the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munch Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 The workers at the Aluminium plant need to chip in now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldcastlerock2012 Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Clearly vlad struggled to realise how bad the global recession was. 2nd paragraph yeah vlad does look like one of those poor owners who is taking the club to the brink. People can make all the execuses, but justifying his running of the club because they're are other crap owners is pretty stupid to me. Why can't we compare him with the good owners or just even owners who haven't had to beg fans for money to survive or clubs last game weeks away. Anyway I don't want a petty argument as we are we're we are. However, irrespective how much money vlad has or has not put or how bad previous owners were should not be a execuse for where we find ourselves under the regime. Also for the argument that gives a sense of perspective. Very few clubs find themselves in our predicament!!! I suspect you won't be saying that in a year or so! It might sound perverse but my view is we caught a break when Romanov took over. He has made some very bad decisions but also some damn good ones and as I say I doubt we would have survived the financial crash and move to Murrayfield which was our alternative future. There's also the small matter of no-one else wanted the club. We certainly wouldn't have enjoyed the successes of the last 7 years or even just 7 years of home games at Tynie. The global financial crisis has been a massive - pretty much as bad as the world has ever seen - economic event and it was also a factor in our current situation. Other clubs have got into serious trouble - who would ever imagine Rangers going into liquidation! - and I think it's going to get worse before it gets better for a lot of clubs to be honest. My view is we need to face up to a possible future WITH Romanov - working in partnership with him rather than against him. Without a fan takeover - very unlikely given the relatively low shares take-up relative to our average support - or a buyer (where will we get a buyer form now if we couldn't get anyone except Romanov when we were in a better financial situation?) that's all we've got. The alternative is he sells what he can to whoever he can and cuts his losses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portobellojambo1 Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 I appreciate that the methodology I used is a bit flaky, but in 2005 the debt was almost 100% secured against the value of the stadium (i.e. the value of Cala's proposed site development). I think that the current value of the stadium is maybe as little as ?6M. That loss in value (negative equity) has to be borne by Vlad, just as you would have to do if you ended up with negative equity for your home / mortgage. Extending my (flaky) theory further, I'd suggest that the "club" is probably worth around ?8m-?10M with Tynecastle included and only ?2m-?4M without the property. Would Vlad be prepared to "deal" or "no deal" at those figures? In terms of the top end figure you mention FootballFirst the only conclusion I can draw is that figure would be achieved by selling the only other asset the club have out-with the stadium, and that is the players. In our present situation I reckon we would have to sell a good few players even to get the lower end ?2 million, because everyone knows the position we are in. Irrespective of what the club value any player at they will very likely get only a small fraction if they are made available for transfer in January. If they are made available, and all bids are accepted the overall value of the club would then drop, as the assets will have been diluted, which is good news for potential buyers in one way, although it could make the rebuilding process a little more difficult if there are no 'senior' players retained. I had reckoned a bid of around ?6 million would secure the club, I would say now anything between ?5-?6 million could be enough to clinch a sale. What I don't really understand, although admittedly haven't really put an awful lot of thought into it, is why Mr Romanov hasn't attempted to sell any of the assets he appears to possess, assuming he still has shares in a number of companies (both his own and former Soviet companies), the likes of the building in St Andrew Square, the submarine he bought (although I suspect there would be a limited market for that) for example. It does seem that he may be short on ready cash at the moment, yet he appears intent on holding on to anything which could raise immediate cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1874robbo Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Does he still own the jet he bought? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 http://www.lithuania...e-zalgiris.html As an aside didn't realise they we're doing so well. At least Vlad is more transparent now. Great news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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