Scottish independence and devolution superthread

[TallPaul]

12 minutes ago, Libertarian said:

Why?

 

Well for a start the country has been independent since 875 AD with a currency that has been built up since 1875. Scotland would be starting a fresh with very little economic foundations and our share of the UK national debt. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

14 minutes ago, TallPaul said:

share of the UK national debt. 

Be prepared for replies from the “ bumping” brigade 

[Boof]

16 minutes ago, TallPaul said:

 and our share of the UK national debt. 

 

And our commensurate share of national assets.

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, Boof said:

 

And our commensurate share of national assets.

What “ assets “ ! Apparently the uk is broke , skint , finished . Well a few on this never stop saying it is . 

[Konrad von Carstein]

3 hours ago, Boof said:

 

Often cited and no doubt with a smidgen of truth in a handful of extreme cases but, in general, complete and utter horseshite...IMO.

Fair comment.

[JudyJudyJudy]

SNP need rid of him and the rest of the Greens 

 

https://x.com/connorgillies/status/1782785319365931192?s=46&t=Uyg6zS_aUfEwlXY6vOoxzQ

[TallPaul]

31 minutes ago, Boof said:

 

And our commensurate share of national assets.

What would they be?

[Lord Montpelier]

5 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

SNP need rid of him and the rest of the Greens 

 

https://x.com/connorgillies/status/1782785319365931192?s=46&t=Uyg6zS_aUfEwlXY6vOoxzQ

It makes me question

What do the Scottish Greens have on the SNP ?

[AyrJambo]

4 minutes ago, TallPaul said:

What would they be?

 If we take a share of the debt then that comes with a share of the assets..

 

Obviously the immovable real estate here in Scotland, naval bases, airbases, firing ranges, woodland/forestry - any current MOD property in this country

Share of real estate abroad so embassies, consulates and the like

Share of armed forces equipment - it's the British army not the English army and Scotland is one of only two signatories which brought Britain, the state, into being

Share of government real estate and resources including equipment

 

In reality much of this would be negotiated into a cash settlement

If it was down to me I would be asking for reparations as well for all the assets stripped out of Scotland over the last three centuries

 

Of course another option would be to take no asset share in return for no debt share

I suspect negotiations will settle somewhere in the middle

[Lord Montpelier]

2 minutes ago, AyrJambo said:

 If we take a share of the debt then that comes with a share of the assets..

 

Obviously the immovable real estate here in Scotland, naval bases, airbases, firing ranges, woodland/forestry - any current MOD property in this country

Share of real estate abroad so embassies, consulates and the like

Share of armed forces equipment - it's the British army not the English army and Scotland is one of only two signatories which brought Britain, the state, into being

Share of government real estate and resources including equipment

 

In reality much of this would be negotiated into a cash settlement

If it was down to me I would be asking for reparations as well for all the assets stripped out of Scotland over the last three centuries

 

Of course another option would be to take no asset share in return for no debt share

I suspect negotiations will settle somewhere in the middle

You seem to be getting a little bit ahead of yourself. 

[AyrJambo]

4 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

You seem to be getting a little bit ahead of yourself. 

 

How so?

 

On the one hand people want cast-iron guarantees of what an independent Scotland will look like, how the economy will perform, what prices, taxes, inflation will be but you are now criticising me for answering a question on what a share of UK assets might look like?

 

[Australis]

55 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

What “ assets “ ! Apparently the uk is broke , skint , finished . Well a few on this never stop saying it is . 

Beat me to it.

UK is skint and broken according to the nationalists.

 

They dont know if they are coming or going.

[Ked]

1 hour ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

What “ assets “ ! Apparently the uk is broke , skint , finished . Well a few on this never stop saying it is . 

 

2 minutes ago, Australis said:

Beat me to it.

UK is skint and broken according to the nationalists.

 

They dont know if they are coming or going.

 

What economic measures do you both use to measure skintness.

We are in debt last time I checked almost 100% of our gdp.

That's UK debt.

Now if you both care to check any studies the wealth of this nation exceeds that debt structurally .

For now.

Oxford studies show Scots disproportionately contributed to that structural wealth.

But if you both choose to ignore the trajectory that's your narrow view.

But to somehow expect Scotland to take on a share of debt without realising that we have contributed far more than we have taken.

Well you both just don't want to talk sense.

And Judy you're starting to nip my nut.

Turncoat.

[Ked]

Judy says indy support is part time like hibs support.

At least their no wee turncoat.

 

[stevie]

Not anything we’ll need to be concerned with any time soon,if ever thankfully.

[Lord Montpelier]

3 minutes ago, Ked said:

Judy says indy support is part time like hibs support.

At least their no wee turncoat.

 

I'd say the indy movement is more like the Hibs team

 

Capable of getting into half decent positions but then completely and hilariously screwing up, leaving everyone but themselves roaring with laughter. 

[TallPaul]

36 minutes ago, AyrJambo said:

 If we take a share of the debt then that comes with a share of the assets..

 

Obviously the immovable real estate here in Scotland, naval bases, airbases, firing ranges, woodland/forestry - any current MOD property in this country

Share of real estate abroad so embassies, consulates and the like

Share of armed forces equipment - it's the British army not the English army and Scotland is one of only two signatories which brought Britain, the state, into being

Share of government real estate and resources including equipment

 

In reality much of this would be negotiated into a cash settlement

If it was down to me I would be asking for reparations as well for all the assets stripped out of Scotland over the last three centuries

 

Of course another option would be to take no asset share in return for no debt share

I suspect negotiations will settle somewhere in the middle

So we get to keep our trees and we get 8.5% of that the UK munitions in exchange for 8.5% of the UK national debt. Sounds like a great deal 🤣

[Ked]

2 minutes ago, TallPaul said:

So we get to keep our trees and we get 8.5% of that the UK munitions in exchange for 8.5% of the UK national debt. Sounds like a great deal 🤣

No.

We don't share debt .

We don't take wealth.

But if we were to take back our share of the structural wealth how much would that be worth.

Gold reserves.

Military hardware

To name but 2.

 

It's absolutely wild reading your posts.

Yer not a dafty.

8.5 of national debt versus according to Oxford studies 25% of national wealth.

Sounds tidy.

Although the UK is in decline.

By the time the turncoats and the handout brigade realise place will be goosed.

[Ked]

13 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

I'd say the indy movement is more like the Hibs team

 

Capable of getting into half decent positions but then completely and hilariously screwing up, leaving everyone but themselves roaring with laughter. 

Better.

 

I'd say the unionists were more hibs.

Ken it's pish but will say any old shite is good .

Deluded

[Ked]

Independent voters are like Hearts.

Owned by the people for the people by the people.

 

Anyone ken what team turncoats support?

 

[il Duce McTarkin]

We need more turncoats imo

[TallPaul]

3 minutes ago, Ked said:

Independent voters are like Hearts.

Owned by the people for the people by the people.

 

Anyone ken what team turncoats support?

 

Wow what an interesting input.

[Ked]

2 minutes ago, TallPaul said:

Wow what an interesting input.

Thanks.

Just going with the flow.

 

So 8.5% of debt versus 25% of the wealth.

Probably best for England if its quits.

Then we can rack up our own debt like 99% of Western democracies.

 

I'm happy to argue and discuss properly .

 

[Ked]

UK wealth in assets is 11.1 trillion.

Now even at a straight swap of 8.5 % versus 8.5% of national debt which is 2,500 billion

That's not accounting for the Oxford studies which showed Scotland disproportionately built the UK wealth 25% .

 

Debt free and assets gained for Scotland is a fair settlement.

 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, AyrJambo said:

 If we take a share of the debt then that comes with a share of the assets..

 

Obviously the immovable real estate here in Scotland, naval bases, airbases, firing ranges, woodland/forestry - any current MOD property in this country

Share of real estate abroad so embassies, consulates and the like

Share of armed forces equipment - it's the British army not the English army and Scotland is one of only two signatories which brought Britain, the state, into being

Share of government real estate and resources including equipment

 

In reality much of this would be negotiated into a cash settlement

If it was down to me I would be asking for reparations as well for all the assets stripped out of Scotland over the last three centuries

 

Of course another option would be to take no asset share in return for no debt share

I suspect negotiations will settle somewhere in the middle

Fantasy island 

1 hour ago, Australis said:

Beat me to it.

UK is skint and broken according to the nationalists.

 

They dont know if they are coming or going.

I know . It’s laughable 

52 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

I'd say the indy movement is more like the Hibs team

 

Capable of getting into half decent positions but then completely and hilariously screwing up, leaving everyone but themselves roaring with laughter. 

That’s exactly what I was meaning but he’s twisted it . 

32 minutes ago, TallPaul said:

Wow what an interesting input.

He seems to be channelling the ghost of a previous poster , no long until Blair Drummond will get a mention ! 

[Australis]

Big hitter Salmond didn't get the nationalist independence.

 

Big hitter Sturgeon didn't get the nationalists independence.

 

Now we have yousless Yousaf, who wants men pretending to be women into female spaces, and we all have female family and relatives, and has serious problems and jealousy for white people when is he getting this independence. 

 

 

Its like failing to win the league with Sir Alex and Klopp

 

Then waiting for Lee Johnson to do it.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 23 by Australis

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, Australis said:

Big hitter Salmond didn't get the nationalist independence.

 

Big hitter Sturgeon didn't get the nationalists independence.

 

Now we have yousless Yousaf, who wants men pretending to be women into female spaces, and we all have female family and relatives, and has serious problems and jealousy for white people when is he getting this independence. 

 

 

 

 

Incredibly that is one of their priorities . They are actually feeding into the so called “ culture wars “ where’s the war on record homelessness ? Oh yes the housing budget got slashed by 200 million to help with so called green issues . 

[il Duce McTarkin]

1 hour ago, AyrJambo said:

 If we take a share of the debt then that comes with a share of the assets..

 

Obviously the immovable real estate here in Scotland, naval bases, airbases, firing ranges, woodland/forestry - any current MOD property in this country

Share of real estate abroad so embassies, consulates and the like

Share of armed forces equipment - it's the British army not the English army and Scotland is one of only two signatories which brought Britain, the state, into being

Share of government real estate and resources including equipment

 

In reality much of this would be negotiated into a cash settlement

If it was down to me I would be asking for reparations as well for all the assets stripped out of Scotland over the last three centuries

 

Of course another option would be to take no asset share in return for no debt share

I suspect negotiations will settle somewhere in the middle

 

Good post.

 

8 minutes ago, Australis said:

Big hitter Salmond didn't get the nationalist independence.

 

Big hitter Sturgeon didn't get the nationalists independence.

 

Now we have yousless Yousaf, who wants men pretending to be women into female spaces, and we all have female family and relatives, and has serious problems and jealousy for white people when is he getting this independence. 

 

 

Its like failing to win the league with Sir Alex and Klopp

 

Then waiting for Lee Johnson to do it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[AyrJambo]

1 hour ago, TallPaul said:

So we get to keep our trees and we get 8.5% of that the UK munitions in exchange for 8.5% of the UK national debt. Sounds like a great deal 🤣

 

How you are able to come to the conclusions you do from the responses you are afforded is beyond me

Have you always been this thick?

[JudyJudyJudy]

Good point , Humza just loves to stir the grievance pot though 

 

 

 

[Thunder and Lightning]

2 hours ago, AyrJambo said:

 If we take a share of the debt then that comes with a share of the assets..

 

Obviously the immovable real estate here in Scotland, naval bases, airbases, firing ranges, woodland/forestry - any current MOD property in this country

Share of real estate abroad so embassies, consulates and the like

Share of armed forces equipment - it's the British army not the English army and Scotland is one of only two signatories which brought Britain, the state, into being

Share of government real estate and resources including equipment

 

In reality much of this would be negotiated into a cash settlement

If it was down to me I would be asking for reparations as well for all the assets stripped out of Scotland over the last three centuries

 

Of course another option would be to take no asset share in return for no debt share

I suspect negotiations will settle somewhere in the middle

Reparations. Ffs. 

 

Scottish lives matter. 😂 

[JudyJudyJudy]

15 minutes ago, Thunder and Lightning said:

Reparations. Ffs. 

 

Scottish lives matter. 😂 

I know 😂

[Thunder and Lightning]

Just now, JudyJudyJudy said:

I know 😂

He is surely just trolling now. 😂 

[JudyJudyJudy]

6 minutes ago, Thunder and Lightning said:

He is surely just trolling now. 😂 

Nah the reparations comment is def something I’d expect from a seperatist . Not only do they want to bring up a union but they even want money from it . Listen if you wanna go it alone , pay your own way ! 

[Japan Jambo]

2 hours ago, Ked said:

UK wealth in assets is 11.1 trillion.

Now even at a straight swap of 8.5 % versus 8.5% of national debt which is 2,500 billion

That's not accounting for the Oxford studies which showed Scotland disproportionately built the UK wealth 25% .

 

Debt free and assets gained for Scotland is a fair settlement.

 

 

 

.

Edited April 23 by Japan Jambo

[TallPaul]

2 hours ago, AyrJambo said:

 

How you are able to come to the conclusions you do from the responses you are afforded is beyond me

Have you always been this thick?

I am employing irony, sir. You are endeavoring to discuss a topic that is entirely fantastical.

[Ked]

1 hour ago, Thunder and Lightning said:

Reparations. Ffs. 

 

Scottish lives matter. 😂 

No just a disproportionate contribution to the UK wealth.

 

There is actually no argument from your position other than this kind of pish

1 hour ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Nah the reparations comment is def something I’d expect from a seperatist . Not only do they want to bring up a union but they even want money from it . Listen if you wanna go it alone , pay your own way ! 

That's fine.

Just stop talking pish about debt.

You really are a fud on this topic.

 

[Ked]

29 minutes ago, TallPaul said:

I am employing irony, sir. You are endeavoring to discuss a topic that is entirely fantastical.

But you equated 8.5 % debt with trees .

Ayr Jambo v airheid

[JudyJudyJudy]

9 minutes ago, Ked said:

No just a disproportionate contribution to the UK wealth.

 

There is actually no argument from your position other than this kind of pish

That's fine.

Just stop talking pish about debt.

You really are a fud on this topic.

 

 

[Jim_Duncan]

Genuinely, does anyone see a second referendum happening by 2035?

[JudyJudyJudy]

8 minutes ago, Jim_Duncan said:

Genuinely, does anyone see a second referendum happening by 2035?

Yes . 
 

 

[AyrJambo]

4 hours ago, il Duce McTarkin said:

 

Good post.

 

 

 

 

We need more good posts IMO

[AyrJambo]

5 hours ago, Ked said:

Thanks.

Just going with the flow.

 

So 8.5% of debt versus 25% of the wealth.

Probably best for England if its quits.

Then we can rack up our own debt like 99% of Western democracies.

 

I'm happy to argue and discuss properly .

 

 

5 hours ago, Ked said:

UK wealth in assets is 11.1 trillion.

Now even at a straight swap of 8.5 % versus 8.5% of national debt which is 2,500 billion

That's not accounting for the Oxford studies which showed Scotland disproportionately built the UK wealth 25% .

 

Debt free and assets gained for Scotland is a fair settlement.

 

 

 

A few posts mentioning 8.5% as a figure for debt share/asset share

That figure assumes that any share will be calculated based on population share and current population share at that

However prior to union the population of Scotland was between 20% and 25% of the population of the British Isles so why not negotiate based on that?

 

Why assume population based share at all?

Why not landmass based share?

 

Given that the Scotland was one of only two signatories of the treaty which created the UK why not 50% share?

 

2 hours ago, TallPaul said:

I am employing irony, sir. You are endeavoring to discuss a topic that is entirely fantastical.

 

There was nothing ironic about your post more like a poor attempt at sarcasm

A previous post of yours when you asked why Sturgeon kept asking for a referendum and you meant on Scottish independence when the discussion was actually about leaving the EU did provide an opportunity to highlight Sturgeon's lack of comprehension of constitutional issues

Ironically however, that was not your intention

 

3 hours ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Nah the reparations comment is def something I’d expect from a seperatist . Not only do they want to bring up a union but they even want money from it . Listen if you wanna go it alone , pay your own way ! 

 

Don't know what you mean by "bring up a union"

Are you suggesting that when there is a parting of the ways, for instance in a divorce, shared assets should not be evenly distributed?

 

1 hour ago, Jim_Duncan said:

Genuinely, does anyone see a second referendum happening by 2035?

 

Not via S30 route no

That is dead now after the scare which unionism got in 2014

That will never be allowed to happen again

 

The route now is the assertion of our inalienable right to self-determination enshrined in the Claim of Right via a constitutional convention and pro-independence parties standing on a manifesto commitment that a vote for them is a vote to declare independence and start negotiations

 

Once a settlement has been agreed then a confirmatory referendum to be held in Scotland, by Holyrood, with a franchise that takes some account of nationality and residency - e.g  you were born here, one of your parents or grandparents were born here or you have had your main residence here for perhaps 10 years

[manaliveits105]

2 hours ago, Jim_Duncan said:

Genuinely, does anyone see a second referendum happening by 2035?

Not a chance - it's quite safe to book holidays and make plans for a generation or two at least 

[TallPaul]

7 hours ago, Jim_Duncan said:

Genuinely, does anyone see a second referendum happening by 2035?

I believe the general election is a defacto referendum is it not? 

[Jim_Duncan]

4 minutes ago, TallPaul said:

I believe the general election is a defacto referendum is it not? 

Nah. I meant a proper, big boy referendum, not something done to placate the tartanistas and jockhadis. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

7 hours ago, AyrJambo said:

The route now is the assertion of our inalienable right to self-determination enshrined in the Claim of Right via a constitutional convention and pro-independence parties standing on a manifesto commitment that a vote for them is a vote to declare independence and start negotiations

So completely ignoring the fact that a majority prob do not want Indy . How’s that in any form democratic ? 

[manaliveits105]

Farting in the wind whilst Humza continues to weaken their support every time he opens his gob 

 

Glorious ! 

 

[AyrJambo]

37 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

So completely ignoring the fact that a majority prob do not want Indy . How’s that in any form democratic ? 

 

Which parts of "standing on a manifesto commitment " and "confirmatory referendum" are you not getting

Or wilfully ignoring

[Jim_Duncan]

7 hours ago, AyrJambo said:

Not via S30 route no

That is dead now after the scare which unionism got in 2014

That will never be allowed to happen again

 

The route now is the assertion of our inalienable right to self-determination enshrined in the Claim of Right via a constitutional convention and pro-independence parties standing on a manifesto commitment that a vote for them is a vote to declare independence and start negotiations

 

Once a settlement has been agreed then a confirmatory referendum to be held in Scotland, by Holyrood, with a franchise that takes some account of nationality and residency - e.g  you were born here, one of your parents or grandparents were born here or you have had your main residence here for perhaps 10 years

Do you reckon any of the major parties are ballsy enough to put forward such a manifesto commitment?