Managers moving on with players

[Jammy T]

This was one of the most damning pieces of rhetoric from the AGM in my opinion and rubber stamps that the same mentality is in place within the Romanov family as existed when Burley was emptied.

 

The same paranoia that signed the death warrant for Burley after the 1-1 draw with Celtic at Parkhead.

 

Nothing has changed in this respect and it helps tell exactly why we have had the "head coaches" we have had since then

 

It helps tell the story of why we never appoint a manager in all our "interim" periods.

 

A manager who will never move on to bigger (and I guess better things) - does such a thing exist? Is this something we would want anyway?

 

The only real answer is a manager looking for one last big job (if we want to move away from the weak inexperienced in-house jobbers we have had for the last 2 years - which I take as a given). As I understand it Warnock was in this exact position - so why werent we interested?

 

I guess the only likely person who might fit that bill now is Jeffries?

 

Is that the comprimise we all need to make.

 

Trying, for once, to get something positive out of the many negatives...

[john brownlee]

This was one of the most damning pieces of rhetoric from the AGM in my opinion and rubber stamps that the same mentality is in place within the Romanov family as existed when Burley was emptied.

 

The same paranoia that signed the death warrant for Burley after the 1-1 draw with Celtic at Parkhead.

 

Nothing has changed in this respect and it helps tell exactly why we have had the "head coaches" we have had since then

 

It helps tell the story of why we never appoint a manager in all our "interim" periods.

 

A manager who will never move on to bigger (and I guess better things) - does such a thing exist? Is this something we would want anyway?

 

The only real answer is a manager looking for one last big job (if we want to move away from the weak inexperienced in-house jobbers we have had for the last 2 years - which I take as a given). As I understand it Warnock was in this exact position - so why werent we interested?

 

I guess the only likely person who might fit that bill now is Jeffries?

 

Is that the comprimise we all need to make.

 

Trying, for once, to get something positive out of the many negatives...

 

I hope you are not suggesting we should have won that game

 

 

:5643::5643:

[Guest casper]

I hope you are not suggesting we should have won that game

 

 

:5643::5643:

 

If Hearts had won that game 10-0 Burley still would have been sacked.

[Jammy T]

I hope you are not suggesting we should have won that game

 

 

:5643::5643:

 

Making reference to the FACT there was a big barney after that game with Romanov convinced Burley had "thrown" attempts to win the game as he had an alterior motive

 

There was also the Romanov claim that had Miko played we would have won 4-1.

 

So, the reference is to the fact most Hearts fans thought such paranoid delusion had been consigned to the rubbish bin after Burley left, when in fact it seems as if family Romanov is still just as paranoid and delusional on managerial matters today....

 

Which any true Hearts fan would at least be worried about...

[Guest JamboRobbo]

This was one of the most damning pieces of rhetoric from the AGM in my opinion and rubber stamps that the same mentality is in place within the Romanov family as existed when Burley was emptied.

 

The same paranoia that signed the death warrant for Burley after the 1-1 draw with Celtic at Parkhead.

 

Spot on Jammy T.

 

The thought that Rodney's paranoid way of thinking is the way we are going to approach things in the future, is frightening. If I took a punt at it, I'd guess that what Rodney told us at the AGM was pretty close to the real uncensored thinking of the Romanovs.

 

But, I hope they have realised that results and league tables don't lie, and I hope that the sane people (CO, Serge) have been given reign to run the assylum for a while, and the version of events given by Serge is the reality of what will happen going forward, regardless of the "true" thoughts of the likes of Rodney Romanov.

[topcat]

This was one of the most damning pieces of rhetoric from the AGM in my opinion and rubber stamps that the same mentality is in place within the Romanov family as existed when Burley was emptied.

 

The same paranoia that signed the death warrant for Burley after the 1-1 draw with Celtic at Parkhead.

 

Burley's Dead?

[PTBCAL]

This was one of the most damning pieces of rhetoric from the AGM in my opinion and rubber stamps that the same mentality is in place within the Romanov family as existed when Burley was emptied.

 

The same paranoia that signed the death warrant for Burley after the 1-1 draw with Celtic at Parkhead.

 

Nothing has changed in this respect and it helps tell exactly why we have had the "head coaches" we have had since then

 

It helps tell the story of why we never appoint a manager in all our "interim" periods.

 

A manager who will never move on to bigger (and I guess better things) - does such a thing exist? Is this something we would want anyway?

 

The only real answer is a manager looking for one last big job (if we want to move away from the weak inexperienced in-house jobbers we have had for the last 2 years - which I take as a given). As I understand it Warnock was in this exact position - so why werent we interested?

 

I guess the only likely person who might fit that bill now is Jeffries?

 

Is that the comprimise we all need to make.

 

Trying, for once, to get something positive out of the many negatives...

 

RR was referring to Craig Levein. Taking 4 players with him when he moved on to 'bigger & better' at Leceister. Maybury, De Vries, Kisnorbo and Hammil.

[Jammy T]

RR was referring to Craig Levein. Taking 4 players with him when he moved on to 'bigger & better' at Leceister. Maybury, De Vries, Kisnorbo and Hammil.

 

So?

[itsnomarooned]

 

The only real answer is a manager looking for one last big job (if we want to move away from the weak inexperienced in-house jobbers we have had for the last 2 years - which I take as a given). As I understand it Warnock was in this exact position - so why werent we interested?

 

 

I think this is spot on. I reckon we should be trying to attract an experienced manager who has been successful but whose star is on the wane. He could have 1 last hurrah and be a big fish in a small pond up here - and he's not got much competition in the managerial stakes let's face it.

 

Let's face it, to a certain extent this is win-win for the individual. If the regime "interferes" and he has to go it's then not his fault and his position was untenable etc etc. If he succeeds then what's not to like?

[The Merse]

RR was referring to Craig Levein. Taking 4 players with him when he moved on to 'bigger & better' at Leceister. Maybury, De Vries, Kisnorbo and Hammil.

 

You don't HAVE to sell the players you know.

[hmfc1440]

So?

 

There is no way in the world anyone can second guess Romanov on what the manager situation will be come 30th June.

From the way RR spoke re mangers (something along the lines of it is very difficult to recruit one) read into that what you may - but as far as I am concerned it reads "it is very difficult to recruit a manager that will do as we say".

It is very easy to recruit a manager and there are many good ones available just check http://www.leaguemanagers.com and available managers.

There are 125 managers on that site alone and many I would have at Hearts right now.

Hearts have way more than MM, CL and JJ considering the vacancy it is just that nothing is being done about anything.

In saying this I think there is a chance that one who will do as told will be recruited by 30th June.

[Jammy T]

There is no way in the world anyone can second guess Romanov on what the manager situation will be come 30th June.

From the way RR spoke re mangers (something along the lines of it is very difficult to recruit one) read into that what you may - but as far as I am concerned it reads "it is very difficult to recruit a manager that will do as we say".

It is very easy to recruit a manager and there are many good ones available just check http://www.leaguemanagers.com and available managers.

There are 125 managers on that site alone and many I would have at Hearts right now.

Hearts have way more than MM, CL and JJ considering the vacancy it is just that nothing is being done about anything.

In saying this I think there is a chance that one who will do as told will be recruited by 30th June.

 

 

Thats probably the list they were referring to...

[Surrey Jambo]

You don't HAVE to sell the players you know.

 

IIRC the players in question were out of contract and, at the time, the club couldn't afford to renew them because VR hadn't yet put his money where his mouth was.

 

In terms of managers looking for one last job before retirement, a certain Nei Warnock springs to mind. He made all the right noises about the city and the club but got no response.

 

Instead he has had to make do with taking Crystal Palace into a Championship play-off place with a possible trip to Wembley and promotion to the EPL - poor old Neil.

[Jammy T]

 

Instead he has had to make do with taking Crystal Palace into a Championship play-off place with a possible trip to Wembley and promotion to the EPL - poor old Neil.

 

Not Hearts "class" according to some....

[Drylaw Hearts]

Would we or The Romanovs complain if we employed Mark Mcghee and he brought Ross McCormack with him ?

[PTBCAL]

So?

 

You failed to see the connection in what RR was blabbing on about so I pointed it out to you.

[PTBCAL]

You don't HAVE to sell the players you know.

 

Sorry I missed the bit in my reply saying that Hearts had to sell the players.

[Jammy T]

You failed to see the connection in what RR was blabbing on about so I pointed it out to you.

 

No, I get the point that sometimes a manager disappears and takes players with him.

 

So what?

 

The point I am making is that the Romanovs were babbling on about this 2 1/2 years ago when they emptied Burley.

 

They are still babbling on about it now

 

It seems like their philosophy in hiring managers is influenced by something they will never avoid - unless they keep hiring in-house lackies who would never get a job anywhere else - they are scared that a manager is successful at Hearts, leaves and tempts players to follow him.

 

This happens in football.

 

Players follow Burley, they follow Levein, they followed Mourinho

 

If you say that you will never employ a manager who might leave and try and sign his favourite players you might as well give up being a football owner because you are living in cloud cuckoo land

 

And even then, if your contracts are up to scratch you will always be compensated for 1. your manager being poached, and 2. your players being poached..

 

Why on earth what a football club owner want to employ a manager that no bigger club would ever be interested in?

 

And, the main person that has moved players on since Romanov came here is Romanov himself not any of our managers

 

But as I said, in trying to see some positive in this pesh - who the feck fits the bill?

 

Frail

Jeffries

Some Kaunas nob-ends

Romanov himself

[The Merse]

Sorry I missed the bit in my reply saying that Hearts had to sell the players.

 

Just saying, the Romanovs said we were no longer a selling club, maybe in that instance the players were shipped because they wouldn't sign new deals or new deals couldn't be afforded - that's fine!

 

But when you come and say we are no longer a selling club and then state you won't employ a good manager incase he gets poached and then buys players off you then thats just total crap.

 

Hang on a second, this is starting to make sense. Is Romanov THAT paranoid about managers coming and going and taking their own signings with them when they leave that he makes sure they can't do this by signing players the manager doesn't want?!

[PTBCAL]

Just saying, the Romanovs said we were no longer a selling club, maybe in that instance the players were shipped because they wouldn't sign new deals or new deals couldn't be afforded - that's fine!

 

But when you come and say we are no longer a selling club and then state you won't employ a good manager incase he gets poached and then buys players off you then thats just total crap.

 

Hang on a second, this is starting to make sense. Is Romanov THAT paranoid about managers coming and going and taking their own signings with them when they leave that he makes sure they can't do this by signing players the manager doesn't want?!

 

Hearts always have and always will be a selling club.

 

RR was a disaster on Friday but I do not believe everything he says.

 

We have spoken to a manager but I think that trail may have gone cold. I am sure VR interference is to blame for that.

 

I do think they will get a manager but I fear it will not be the 'type' we all want.

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

It's so deflating hearing that guff from the Romanovs. It's also pretty ironically hypocritical seeing as they brought about a dozen Kaunas players with them.

[Buffalo Bill]

So what if Levein left and took Maybury and De Vries with him.

 

Grow a pair of balls and find some new players.

 

 

Buffalo Bill

 

.

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

RR was referring to Craig Levein. Taking 4 players with him when he moved on to 'bigger & better' at Leceister. Maybury, De Vries, Kisnorbo and Hammil.

 

If that's what he was referring to that makes their ridiculous concerns even more pointless and destructive. 8 months after those four left we were unbeaten at the top of the league. Didn't do us too much damage, did it?

[Jammy T]

Hearts always have and always will be a selling club.

 

RR was a disaster on Friday but I do not believe everything he says.

 

We have spoken to a manager but I think that trail may have gone cold. I am sure VR interference is to blame for that.

 

I do think they will get a manager but I fear it will not be the 'type' we all want.

 

But thats the crux of it.

 

I believe his mutterings much more readily highlight the "Clan Romanov" thinking than some sort of sweep up exercise that was undertaken 4 hours later by somebody with more than 2 braincells

 

And if you know to be true what you state in the last two paragraphs why the feck are we all pussyfooting around on an internet forum discussing whether or not we should get the Romanovs tae feck.

 

If what you say is true the game must be a bogey for the Romanov's

 

Mustn't it?

[bighusref]

Making reference to the FACT there was a big barney after that game with Romanov convinced Burley had "thrown" attempts to win the game as he had an alterior motive

 

There was also the Romanov claim that had Miko played we would have won 4-1.

 

So, the reference is to the fact most Hearts fans thought such paranoid delusion had been consigned to the rubbish bin after Burley left, when in fact it seems as if family Romanov is still just as paranoid and delusional on managerial matters today....

 

Which any true Hearts fan would at least be worried about...

 

To think that for two or three months we felt we could be disappointed with a draw at Parkhead? Compare that to now, where if we were in the same half of the league as them, we would in all likelihood get a doing.

 

How far we have come eh!

[Charlie-Brown]

Burley also took Skacel & tried to sign Bednar - however managers taking former players with them is quite common - Jeffries took Locke, Makel & Juanjo to Bradford then took Combe & Locke to Killie with him as well as signing his ex-Hearts players G.Wales, G.Murray & A.Johnston......Mourinho took a few Porto players to Chelsea with him and Benitez brough some of his players with him too - it's a fairly common phenomenon although I can understand why club Chairmen on the receiving end might be slightly peeved that their plans for the club can be undone & hostage to key employee's walking out on them.

[The Mighty Thor]

RR was referring to Craig Levein. Taking 4 players with him when he moved on to 'bigger & better' at Leceister. Maybury, De Vries, Kisnorbo and Hammil.

 

That was Levein showing how much of a Hearts man he really was by taking the bulk of the gash with him to Leicester. He should be applauded for doing so.

 

Maybe if we can get Rodney to resign as Chief Exec he'll take most of the crap his old man sent over with him.

 

Fingers crossed.

[CostaJambo]

Have stopped trying to analyse every word the Romaknobs come out with. This just sounds like yet another smokescreen. Is he honestly saying that if daddy brought in a new exec at his bank and the guy wanted to bring in some of his own people they would refuse on principle? Bollocks.

[PTBCAL]

That was Levein showing how much of a Hearts man he really was by taking the bulk of the gash with him to Leicester. He should be applauded for doing so.

 

Maybe if we can get Rodney to resign as Chief Exec he'll take most of the crap his old man sent over with him.

 

Fingers crossed.

 

Funny enough apart from Kisnorbo who i thought could go on to be a player I was not fussed about the other 3.

 

CL once said at a FF that Hamill was the best young player he had worked with and easily matched the likes of ANYTHING Hibs had produced.

[WalterEgo]

It's one thing a manager leaving for whatever reason and taking players with him. That's commonplace and wholly understandable.

 

It is quite another thing Rantin' Rodney saying that they can't hire a manager in case he is just angling for another job and to take the players with him. So no manager can be signed unless he guarantees he will never leave and guarantees he won't try and sign players he's worked with before.

 

If it wasn't so moronic it would be quite funny - imagine a manager wanting to come to Hearts for the sole reason of creaming off all that talent.

[Jammy T]

Burley also took Skacel & tried to sign Bednar - however managers taking former players with them is quite common - Jeffries took Locke, Makel & Juanjo to Bradford then took Combe & Locke to Killie with him as well as signing his ex-Hearts players G.Wales, G.Murray & A.Johnston......Mourinho took a few Porto players to Chelsea with him and Benitez brough some of his players with him too - it's a fairly common phenomenon although I can understand why club Chairmen on the receiving end might be slightly peeved that their plans for the club can be undone & hostage to key employee's walking out on them.

 

exactly - so surely you cant base your search on a good manager hell bent on avoiding such a scenario?

[Charlie-Brown]

exactly - so surely you cant base your search on a good manager hell bent on avoiding such a scenario?

 

If you were of such a mindset though it would probably make you wary of managers you didn't know or didn't feel you could trust to work in the best long term interests of the club rather than promoting their own career - if you value loyalty and wanted to build for the long term then you'd want to try avoid that type of manager ..... it's a pity some of the better one's fall into that category.

[Jammy T]

If you were of such a mindset though it would probably make you wary of managers you didn't know or didn't feel you could trust to work in the best long term interests of the club rather than promoting their own career - if you value loyalty and wanted to build for the long term then you'd want to try avoid that type of manager ..... it's a pity some of the better one's fall into that category.

 

I appreciate that every board / club owner when signing a manager will say "How likely is he to F off at some stage? How likely is he to try and nab our players?"

 

I appreciate that a football club would prefer loyalty

 

Football is a very shallow business at the front end though. If the Romanovs either dont realise that or think they can change that or cant live with it they need to get out now. For the sake of us, the club and themselves. It cant be healthy being so paranoid and neurotic about one of your major business interests

 

Evidence of what effect turning to loyal puppy dog coaches has on the footballing side of life is shown by the decline in the standard of football over the last 2 years

 

Evidence of what can be achieved with a proper (but possibly "greedy") manager has can be found in the first 4 months of their "reign"

[bigandy]

Managers always have and always will sign players that they have worked with previously. Thats life and not just in football. At Hearts over the years we have seen it happening in both directions. Levien took DeVries, Maybury etc with him, Jeffries took Locke Jaunjo and the like. When JJ took over at Tynie he brought Fulton and Weir in from Falkirk. Like I say its life if I set up my own company and there was a person I managed at my current work who I trusted and knew was very good at his job you can bet that the first thing I would do would be to make him an offer to come and work for me.

[Charlie-Brown]

Managers do frequently take their backroom staff and / or player(s) with them when they leave - of course this is quite common in football but that doesn't mean it isn't something Hearts or any club shouldn't try to avoid or limit the future damage or disruption to the clubs planning.

 

Levein leaving with his assistants then coming back for players and Burley taking his assistant manager / chief scout and the goalkeeping coach obviously had a disruptive effect.

 

Of course you can never guard against every eventuality and of course Hearts need the best football manager we can attract however their is nothing wrong in seeking out good managers who do have a history of loyalty to clubs and also causing minimal disruption to the clubs they've left previously.

 

Personally I think Craig Levein is a great 'Hearts man' and would make a great manager for us but he did walk out on us before and took coaches & players with him - with his recently stated desire to manage in England at Premiership / Championship level then there is no guarantee that after 1 or 2 good seasons with Hearts he *might* do the same as he did previously - now personally I would be willing to take that risk but it is at least understandable that other people might feel once bitten twice shy and have concerns about his loyalty to the club and whether he would act in hearts best interest or put his career & new club first?

 

Similarly quite a number of people would like Mark McGhee (I think he's a very good manager) and would also like him to bring some players like McCormack & Hughes etc with him ..... but if he could do that to Motherwell after only one season then it's not an unreasonable doubt to have that he could do the very same to us after a short while and take some best players to Celtic or England or wherever......

 

Who is the best person to manage Hearts going forward? Who has the best qualities & skills & who can we rely on?

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

Managers do frequently take their backroom staff and / or player(s) with them when they leave - of course this is quite common in football but that doesn't mean it isn't something Hearts or any club shouldn't try to avoid or limit the future damage or disruption to the clubs planning.

 

Levein leaving with his assistants then coming back for players and Burley taking his assistant manager / chief scout and the goalkeeping coach obviously had a disruptive effect.

 

Of course you can never guard against every eventuality and of course Hearts need the best football manager we can attract however their is nothing wrong in seeking out good managers who do have a history of loyalty to clubs and also causing minimal disruption to the clubs they've left previously.

 

Personally I think Craig Levein is a great 'Hearts man' and would make a great manager for us but he did walk out on us before and took coaches & players with him - with his recently stated desire to manage in England at Premiership / Championship level then there is no guarantee that after 1 or 2 good seasons with Hearts he *might* do the same as he did previously - now personally I would be willing to take that risk but it is at least understandable that other people might feel once bitten twice shy and have concerns about his loyalty to the club and whether he would act in hearts best interest or put his career & new club first?

 

Similarly quite a number of people would like Mark McGhee (I think he's a very good manager) and would also like him to bring some players like McCormack & Hughes etc with him ..... but if he could do that to Motherwell after only one season then it's not an unreasonable doubt to have that he could do the very same to us after a short while and take some best players to Celtic or England or wherever......

 

Who is the best person to manage Hearts going forward? Who has the best qualities & skills & who can we rely on?

 

 

All well and good, but it does seem absurd that we're debating what type of manager we should go for when most of us would grasp anybody who is not tainted by Romanov's interference.

 

Also, it's a bit rich for Romanov to be using Burley and Levein as examples. Burley would never have had the opportunity to take his backroom staff if he hadn't been sacked in the first place. And Levein was pushed slightly as well. Despite the splendid job he had done for the previous two seasons he was under the impression that Byshovets was going to be brought in right over the top of him.

 

It's a self-fulfilling prophecy from Romanov - if you treat managers like dirt and make it impossible for them to work properly the chances of them coming back to shaft you increase enormously.