Guest Just Came To Say Kello Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I agree with the general point, I suppose. But it does seem like she's got a bit of an axe to grind against football fans. Some parts of the piece are needlessly scornful. The comedian Chris Rock does a great routine in which he mimics people who congratulate themselves for doing things they're supposed to do anyway. "'I take care of my kids.' You're supposed to take care of your kids! 'I've never been to jail.' What do you want ? a cookie? You're not supposed to go to jail, you low-expectations-having ######!" And so to a week in which the much-vaunted football family has been swift to foreground its civilised response to the horrible misfortune ofFabrice Muamba. A 23-year-old father of one suffers a massive heart attack on the pitch in front of a football crowd, and ever since it has been difficult to avoid those fostering collective pride at the reaction. It has "brought out the best in football"; it has allowed fans to show that there are things "bigger than football"; it has made all manner of people "proud of football". Even that evening's Match of the Day pundits were noting reverentially the good behaviour of the White Hart Lane crowd, as though watching the fight to save someone's life supportively were the most commendable of things. I wish I couldn't already picture the mawkish segment that will feature in December's Sports Personality of the Year, introduced by Gary Lineker with that terrible, gear-crunching change in tone as he recalls "one week in March that showed how united we really are". Yeah, it was the worst of times, but it was also the best of times. Well done EVERYBODY. As for "the best" in football, by that is apparently meant basic compassion. Which, if you think about it, seems devastatingly insulting to football. In fact, it's hard to escape the conclusion that to class the general reaction to Muamba's plight as admirable is to make a profound category mistake. When evaluating a person or persons' behaviour, it's surely vital to consider whether they might really have behaved any other way ? and if so, what else they might have done. For instance, of my distant acquaintance ? happily ? is a woman who is widely held to be quite poisonous, seemingly never more content than when spreading malicious gossip or delighting in the misfortunes of those she calls friends. But it is strange how often it is said in her apparent defence that around 35 years ago she saved a child who was floundering in a swimming pool. To which the only reasonable response is: what on earth was the alternative? Standing four foot away and deciding not to get her clothes wet and carry on enjoying a glass of wine? This is a "dilemma" football's current self-congratulators might usefully bear in mind. When the alternative action is so monstrous as to be clinically diagnosable as psychopathic, then I can't really go along with those who reckon not succumbing to it is some form of personal and collective triumph. In the case of the woman of my distant acquaintance, it is quite unthinkable that she would not have hopped into the pool and fished the child out. In the case of Muamba, alas, it is all too thinkable that the classic "few idiots" ? or few hundred idiots ? could have made some sort of hay out of his near-death distress. So instead of congratulating itself on its eminently civilised reaction to poor Muamba's suffering, the football family might instead care to wonder to what a pretty pass things have come for a basically humane reaction to be deemed so remarkable. How low does the game have to have sunk before not directing abuse at a player receiving CPR, not chanting something repulsive about his partner, or not ranting that Bolton should have played on with 10 men for the time-wasting is deemed to be a behavioural win? Yet you can scarcely move for those seeking to emphasise, in ever more impressed tones, how well everyone's done. By doing so they presumably seek to turn a young man's shocking and life-threatening misfortune into something of which we can all be proud. That is questionable enough ? and by implication casts football as a place where humane norms disappeared long ago. Looked at another way, this has been quite the opposite of a noble week for football Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Just Came To Say Kello Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Sorry for the shit formatting, KB's being a prick to me. Here's a link: http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2012/mar/21/fabrice-muamba-self-congratulation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Merse Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Can't disagree with a lot of it to be honest. Bit harsh though and I think the self congratulations that they are going on about is heavily exaggerated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nookie Bear Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I kind of get what she is saying that football fans should not be praised too highly for doing the right thing. But I can't compliment her too much because one piece of haf-decent, thoughtful journalism does not make up for the mountains of hateful lies they serve up on a daily basis. Works both ways, luv. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.J Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Got bored during the second paragraph to be honest. No sure what a B-list American comedian having a caper on-stage has to do with fitba. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamdub Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 For a Guardian journalist I give her a 5/10 taking into account it must be her time of the month. The young man died for 78 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mahgrassyshoes Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Don't really see what she's complaining about, she says that football is excessive in it's praise for fans beig respectful then goes on to show how it happens in every walk of life and isn't just limited to football. I think she's exaggerated the self-praising that's gone on because she's had an idea for an edgy piece tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amjam Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Seems to me she's using his massive and near fatal heart attack to points score against football fans. Classy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_Jersey_HMFC Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 :keys: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redm Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I think she's exaggerating. The reports and comments I've seen about what happened aren't gushing with praise in that way, if they say anything at all of that sort then it's more a sort of aside about how it's also a sign that maybe behaviour in football is improving to some extent. A reminder that not all football punters are monsters and not everything linked to football is bad, shallow or artificial. I do admit that the whole "guess what? Football spectators can even be HUMAN sometimes" thing is a little annoying but I don't think it's anywhere near as bad as she's making out. She just wants to have a go so she's exaggerating. In saying that....would I have been massively surprised if some corners of the ground had sung something mean (presumably before they realised it was quite that serious)? Erm, no. I wouldn't. Football stadiums can still be unforgiving and sharp tongued places. Then we might have had a different set of reports.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpie Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 \ Would it not have been fair to also mention in the condemnatory article that if this had occurred in the past the equipment to save the young man would not have been available. Praise where due, criticism where deserved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bilel Mohsni Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I think that the reason people are being so self-congratulatory is simply because it was such a shock. It was a horrendous thing for so many people to witness and in these circumstances people want to do or say something but are largely impotent, and so they just say the right things to express their shock. I think that most people are praising the doctor who acted fast and saved his life and that is right in my opinion, he deserves praise for acting fast, whether it is his job or not, he saved a man's life and that should not be underplayed. As for the fans, they deserve a break IMO, despite it being the right thing to do, there is no harm in drawing attention to it. Perhaps it is the bare minimum of human decency to react with empathy but let's be honest, you just need to open a text message after any notable sad event to know that all people do not always react in the proper manner to tragic events. Let them over-egg it a little, it is harmless. I am failing to see why it has upset her so much really, she is probably right in what she is saying but I am bewildered as to why she feels it is such a terrible thing and what good writing the article will do? Is it just a case of saying: Look how clever and insightful I am? Lots of things annoy me about football fans and indeed human beings in general but an over the top outpouring of sympathy towards a young man who died in front of thousands and was saved by quick action, is certainly not even close to the top of my list really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I can see her point, but I think her point is being missed. Basically we should always be good citizens and we shouldn't feel the need to be self congratulatory when we do what we should be doing anyway. I think it's using an emotive event to get the point across which immediately makes people think she is having a go at Muambe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redm Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I can see her point, but I think her point is being missed. Basically we should always be good citizens and we shouldn't feel the need to be self congratulatory when we do what we should be doing anyway. I think it's using an emotive event to get the point across which immediately makes people think she is having a go at Muambe. I get all that but I think she's taking it too far. She's manipulating a concept (a reasonable one too) in order to have a dig at football fans and it doesn't really work all that well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I do find the public wave of grief/concern when something like this happens a bit over the top. If Muamba had died it would have been extremely sad and tragic but I'd have been lying if I said I was touched by it. I don't know him. I was touched last year when a mate of mine was killed in a road accident. That was horrendous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I get all that but I think she's taking it too far. She's manipulating a concept (a reasonable one too) in order to have a dig at football fans and it doesn't really work all that well. But for the most and the best part football fans are arseholes, or at least behave like arseholes for 90 mins. Which is precisely her point...I think! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabienleclerq Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Strange, i feel like she's right but she isn't! The media make football fans out to be vandals/alcoholics etc etc when in truth they just represent society in general,some a tw@ts some are great. So due to the myths about fans that are printed i think we expected at first the crowd would have a go with the time being taken before realising how serious it was,but they didn't and responded in a good manner.It doesn't do any harm praising someone for doing something right and if we didn't when would we praise people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mahgrassyshoes Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 But for the most and the best part football fans are arseholes, or at least behave like arseholes for 90 mins. Which is precisely her point...I think! The thing is though, she (essentially) says football fans are arseholes and this is people trying to redeem them, but then gives the example of her pal being an arsehole and everyone using the fact that she saved someone life to redeem her. If it happens in everyday life why is she picking out football for it. And as if that doesn't undermine her point enough, she has completely over exaggerated the extent of the back patting, the mood has been more a hope Muamba get well soon rather than look how good we are for thinking good thoughts about Muamba. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego10 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I largely agree with her tbh. The bar for acceptable behaviour is so low at football that basic human decency is looked on as cause to be proud. That's not to say most football fans don't behave well, just that giving people credit for suspending being an idiot is no something to get the bunting out for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bn jambo Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I do find the public wave of grief/concern when something like this happens a bit over the top. If Muamba had died it would have been extremely sad and tragic but I'd have been lying if I said I was touched by it. I don't know him. I was touched last year when a mate of mine was killed in a road accident. That was horrendous. This , there has been alot of grief chasers laying scarves and flowers, don't get me wrong I hope the boy pulls through but from some quarters it has been OTT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego10 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Got bored during the second paragraph to be honest. No sure what a B-list American comedian having a caper on-stage has to do with fitba. Chris Rock B list? How wrong you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Gin Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 It's in the Guardian? The best newspaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.J Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Chris Rock B list? How wrong you are. I take it back. I didn't realise that it was still 1999. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Comedian Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 It's been a bit of a competition down there to see who can greet over the lad the most. I hope Muamba pulls through so all the nauseous pish can end. He'll be back dodging leg-breakers in no time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coburg Hearts Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 It's in the Guardian? It's written by a woman journalist? Like Aids, probably best avoided. This!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McClure Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 written by a woman? on a laptop? thats a funny looking ironing board stop trying to be edgy for the sake of being edgy my dear a young mans life hangs/hung in the balance, and aye it was good that nobody has acted like an arsehole, like a lot of fans are for 90 minutes but this over the top self congratulation she is mentioning is bollocks, she is exaggerating, just to make her point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Rom?n Riquelme Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 She seems like a shit, middle class bawsack of a woman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Football fans wouldn't have to congratulate themselves for civil behaviour if they weren't made out to be animals by the likes of her colleagues. It's also a massive exaggeration to the point she's lying to validate the article. Almost everyone I've listened to from 'the football family' has been praising the quick response of the medical teams over anything else. Shite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I do find the public wave of grief/concern when something like this happens a bit over the top. If Muamba had died it would have been extremely sad and tragic but I'd have been lying if I said I was touched by it. I don't know him. I was touched last year when a mate of mine was killed in a road accident. That was horrendous. I think a worse example was the reaction to Liam Kelly's father's death. 20 or 30 years ago this would have rated a sober and sympathetic paragraph or two in the sports pages. Today it is front page news for days with the now obligatory flower and scarf shrines, and, yes, multi page threads on message boards for public grieving. The most common adjective employed was "tragic". I am sorry but a 59 year old man dying of a heart attack is not a tragedy, it is an everyday event. If that was a tragedy what words are left to describe real tragedies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seymour M Hersh Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 The best newspaper. For fish suppers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I think a worse example was the reaction to Liam Kelly's father's death. 20 or 30 years ago this would have rated a sober and sympathetic paragraph or two in the sports pages. Today it is front page news for days with the now obligatory flower and scarf shrines, and, yes, multi page threads on message boards for public grieving. The most common adjective employed was "tragic". I am sorry but a 59 year old man dying of a heart attack is not a tragedy, it is an everyday event. If that was a tragedy what words are left to describe real tragedies? It's a tragedy that he died on the day his lad won the cup. But I know what you're saying. How many flowers will get laid on Britain for the folk killed by this nutter in France? None, even though people in reality care as much about them as they do about Muamba. As a side thought, I was at Leeds-Forest on Tuesday night. We had a minute's applause for Muamba - a minute's applause for someone in hospital. I wish him all the best but it was ******* ludicrous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbee647 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Got bored during the second paragraph to be honest. No sure what a B-list American comedian having a caper on-stage has to do with fitba. To be fair if you have ever seen Chris Rock doing that routine it's feckin hilarious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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