Total lack of ambition

[david mcgee]

Just watched the Chairmen of half the clubs in the SPL slaver about how they need a strong Rangers.

 

In any other sport if one of your biggest competitors retires or suffers a serious injury, best wishes would be forth coming but the obvious opportunity it afforded you would be grasped.

 

The lack of ambition and belief in these clubs is pathetic, no wonder they win diddly squit.

 

The best era i can remember in Scottish football was when Aberdeen and Dundee Utd were prevalent and i dont remember any TV companies or sponsors threatening to withdraw support for the league then.

 

Its high time these chairmen grew a pair!

[Toxteth O'Grady]

Just watched the Chairmen of half the clubs in the SPL slaver about how they need a strong Rangers.

 

In any other sport if one of your biggest competitors retires or suffers a serious injury, best wishes would be forth coming but the obvious opportunity it afforded you would be grasped.

 

The lack of ambition and belief in these clubs is pathetic, no wonder they win diddly squit.

 

The best era i can remember in Scottish football was when Aberdeen and Dundee Utd were prevalent and i dont remember any TV companies or sponsors threatening to withdraw support for the league then.

 

Its high time these chairmen grew a pair!

 

They are utterly spineless

[Optimus Prime]

Just watched the Chairmen of half the clubs in the SPL slaver about how they need a strong Rangers.

 

In any other sport if one of your biggest competitors retires or suffers a serious injury, best wishes would be forth coming but the obvious opportunity it afforded you would be grasped.

 

The lack of ambition and belief in these clubs is pathetic, no wonder they win diddly squit.

 

The best era i can remember in Scottish football was when Aberdeen and Dundee Utd were prevalent and i dont remember any TV companies or sponsors threatening to withdraw support for the league then.

 

Its high time these chairmen grew a pair!

 

I agree with you David. This could be Scottish Footballs final chance to bring through meaningful change.

 

With half the Old Firm on its knees the rest of the SPL clus and top SFL clubs should resign from the SPL, form their own league and only accept Rangers (in whatever form) and Celtic in on equal rights in terms of voting rights/tv revenue.

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

Just watched the Chairmen of half the clubs in the SPL slaver about how they need a strong Rangers.

 

In any other sport if one of your biggest competitors retires or suffers a serious injury, best wishes would be forth coming but the obvious opportunity it afforded you would be grasped.

 

The lack of ambition and belief in these clubs is pathetic, no wonder they win diddly squit.

 

The best era i can remember in Scottish football was when Aberdeen and Dundee Utd were prevalent and i dont remember any TV companies or sponsors threatening to withdraw support for the league then.

 

Its high time these chairmen grew a pair!

 

Where did you watch this?

[LeylandJambo]

Money talks I'm afraid.

[Guest]

Just watched the Chairmen of half the clubs in the SPL slaver about how they need a strong Rangers.

 

In any other sport if one of your biggest competitors retires or suffers a serious injury, best wishes would be forth coming but the obvious opportunity it afforded you would be grasped.

 

The lack of ambition and belief in these clubs is pathetic, no wonder they win diddly squit.

 

The best era i can remember in Scottish football was when Aberdeen and Dundee Utd were prevalent and i dont remember any TV companies or sponsors threatening to withdraw support for the league then.

 

Its high time these chairmen grew a pair!

 

 

Yeah, think it was the St Mirren chairman who said that. I can't be too sure as I was swearing loadly at the telly when I heard him say it. We've seen a strong Rangers and its of very little benefit to us.

 

 

Our 1st win at Ibrox in ages against Rangers - I'd like to see that more often rather than have "strong Rangers" pishing all over us every time we rock up to Govan

[bigsuperslim1874]

Yorkston, Gilmour and Johnston were interviewed on Sky. That spineless get Gilmour gave it 'scottish football needs a strong rangers'.

 

No u old firm lapdog, scottish football needs a strong hearts, aberdeen, utd - in fact the whole top division.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

The thing is, without Rangers and Celtic TV revenue will fall and an SPL club's general income will probably fall too. Some of these chairmen will have money invested in their clubs so I can understand why they're worried.

[leginten]

Just watched the Chairmen of half the clubs in the SPL slaver about how they need a strong Rangers.

 

In any other sport if one of your biggest competitors retires or suffers a serious injury, best wishes would be forth coming but the obvious opportunity it afforded you would be grasped.

 

The lack of ambition and belief in these clubs is pathetic, no wonder they win diddly squit.

 

The best era i can remember in Scottish football was when Aberdeen and Dundee Utd were prevalent and i dont remember any TV companies or sponsors threatening to withdraw support for the league then.

 

Its high time these chairmen grew a pair!

 

These dinosaurs are the main obstruction to any reform that will see Scottish football progress. There's no point in our perpetually lambasting the SFA and the SPL about the state of the Scottish game when the club chairmen can't see past a couple of home gates against the Huns.

[Das Root]

The thing is, without Rangers and Celtic TV revenue will fall and an SPL club's general income will probably fall too. Some of these chairmen will have money invested in their clubs so I can understand why they're worried.

 

 

At the very least each club should poll their own fans to ascertain what they want. It's the fans club, the chairman are merely the custodians. If the fans and chairman are at different spectrums then a decision would need to be made by the chairman whether they wish to abide by the fans choice or look to sell the club on.

[Jezza]

There is a big difference between our club, who could survive pretty easily without Rangers' financial contributions and the smaller sides in the league who budget in accordance with the visits of the Old Firm. I'm also pretty sure chairman in charge of these clubs know what is best for the clubs.

 

It's not spineless at all - it's looking after numero uno, the same way everyone posting the spineless comments are only thinking of our club.

[Jamboman1512]

I just don't understand this "we need a strong rangers" rubbish, rangers and celtic have been pretty strong for the last two decades (rangers because of cheating) so saying we need them strong so we have any chance of a decent league is total mince, as i'm sure lots would agree that the league has been rather S#ite that whole time. What we need is a FAIR league where everyone has a fair crack at the whip which in turn would lead to a more competitive league which would then bring the fans back through the gates which would make the league more attractive for any TV company having a look which means more money which then means better players, better competition, more fans, more attractive for TV, more money and so on and so on.

[moogsy]

There is a big difference between our club, who could survive pretty easily without Rangers' financial contributions and the smaller sides in the league who budget in accordance with the visits of the Old Firm. I'm also pretty sure chairman in charge of these clubs know what is best for the clubs.

 

It's not spineless at all - it's looking after numero uno, the same way everyone posting the spineless comments are only thinking of our club.

 

Agree with this. I would tend to place the blame on the glory hunters who support the old firm rather than their local team for creating this climate of old firm reliance in the first place.

 

Fans may have opinions but at the end of the day surely the chairman is the person best placed to make decsions concerning the financial future of their club.

[Problem Officer?]

Yeah, think it was the St Mirren chairman who said that. I can't be too sure as I was swearing loadly at the telly when I heard him say it. We've seen a strong Rangers and its of very little benefit to us.

 

 

Our 1st win at Ibrox in ages against Rangers - I'd like to see that more often rather than have "strong Rangers" pishing all over us every time we rock up to Govan

 

Indeed.

[david mcgee]

There is a big difference between our club, who could survive pretty easily without Rangers' financial contributions and the smaller sides in the league who budget in accordance with the visits of the Old Firm. I'm also pretty sure chairman in charge of these clubs know what is best for the clubs.

 

It's not spineless at all - it's looking after numero uno, the same way everyone posting the spineless comments are only thinking of our club.

Get a grip, they get two home games against Rangers a year, ( one if bottom six ) if they dont have the guille to get an extra couple of hundred people to turn up to their home games in a competitive league that they would at least have a chance of European competition in , well its time to wrap it in altogether.

[Diego10]

Agree with this. I would tend to place the blame on the glory hunters who support the old firm rather than their local team for creating this climate of old firm reliance in the first place.

 

Fans may have opinions but at the end of the day surely the chairman is the person best placed to make decsions concerning the financial future of their club.

Craig Whyte was Rangers chairman...

[moogsy]

Craig Whyte was Rangers chairman...

 

There are of course exceptions to every rule

[Imeantasong]

The thing is, without Rangers and Celtic TV revenue will fall and an SPL club's general income will probably fall too. Some of these chairmen will have money invested in their clubs so I can understand why they're worried.

Mibbe.

 

I've seen about 20 counter arguments on this site alone though, with well thought out arguments diespelling this notion.

 

If gys n gals on here can at least consider how to turn this into a positive, then surely clubs could?

[Jezza]

Get a grip, they get two home games against Rangers a year, ( one if bottom six ) if they dont have the guille to get an extra couple of hundred people to turn up to their home games in a competitive league that they would at least have a chance of European competition in , well its time to wrap it in altogether.

 

Yep, they also get money from a TV deal that would decrease if Rangers weren't in the league.

 

How would it be a more competative league for a team that finishes from 6th to 10th the majority of the time? Why would more supporters turn up all of a sudden?

 

Why would the chairman of the likes of St Mirren or St Johnstone want Rangers in the SPL otherwise.

 

All this romanticism of a fairer league is complete shite. It would still be Celtic running away with it, there would be less money in the game and instead of a 2 horse race it would be one. Fairer TV money wouldn't change this. There would be 1 champions league spot won by Celtic, and nobody would be able to compete with them.

 

There would be a fight on for 2nd in the same way there is a fight for 3rd with the exact same outcome - Europa League.

 

There is 3 sides in with a very decent chance of making the Champions League next season for probably the only time in there history for 2 of them, and in the future - lets see how many more supporters turn up to watch this outcome and if there's not a huge increase with the Champions League carrot dangling I have absolutely no idea why crowds would increase in the future for a Europa League place?

[BlackJAC?]

The only people that are in any real position to know whether or not a strong Rangers is a good thing is the other clubs themselves. After all, they'll know what Rangers bring to the table through gate receipts and so on.

 

I think too many people are trying to state their opinion as fact when all it is in reality is grievances and so on.

 

Out of interest, does anyone know how much our club would lose if Rangers weren't about? No guesstimates or assumptions, because we can all do that and they mean nowt.

 

As far as i can see our own club can ill afford any drop in revenue, so unless I'm missing something major here, I'll assume no one on here has really thought any of this through.

[Jezza]

The only people that are in any real position to know whether or not a strong Rangers is a good thing is the other clubs themselves. After all, they'll know what Rangers bring to the table through gate receipts and so on.

 

I think too many people are trying to state their opinion as fact when all it is in reality is grievances and so on.

 

Out of interest, does anyone know how much our club would lose if Rangers weren't about? No guesstimates or assumptions, because we can all do that and they mean nowt.

 

As far as i can see our own club can ill afford any drop in revenue, so unless I'm missing something major here, I'll assume no one on here has really thought any of this through.

 

?210,000 in ticket sales to begin with.

[BlackJAC?]

?210,000 in ticket sales to begin with.

This is what i mean, can we afford to lose over 200k? after the 2 years we've endured I don't think we're in a position to lose that amount of revenue.

 

Now, had we been well run, debt free and making a profit, i would see things differently, but the stark reality is people should be careful for what they wish for.

[leginten]

The only people that are in any real position to know whether or not a strong Rangers is a good thing is the other clubs themselves. After all, they'll know what Rangers bring to the table through gate receipts and so on.

 

I think too many people are trying to state their opinion as fact when all it is in reality is grievances and so on.

 

Out of interest, does anyone know how much our club would lose if Rangers weren't about? No guesstimates or assumptions, because we can all do that and they mean nowt.

 

As far as i can see our own club can ill afford any drop in revenue, so unless I'm missing something major here, I'll assume no one on here has really thought any of this through.

 

Really? You don't think the people who actually pay for the whole shooting match year in, year out and without whom the game does not exist - the fans, the mugs - might by now have formed a valid opinion about whether or not a strong version of a club which has been part of a two-pronged, suffocating domination of Scottish football for over a quarter of a century is a good thing? Especially when it transpires that said club doesn't bother paying its taxes and issues illegal contracts?

 

I think we have a very good idea indeed of what is needed.

[Jezza]

This is what i mean, can we afford to lose over 200k? after the 2 years we've endured I don't think we're in a position to lose that amount of revenue.

 

Now, had we been well run, debt free and making a profit, i would see things differently, but the stark reality is people should be careful for what they wish for.

 

 

We probably could if we got more of a support in ourselves. I can't see how that would happen any time soon. Celtic would pish the league and everything would be over by Christmas which would probably mean less Celtic fans at grounds towards the end of the season which would result in less money from the support they bring too.

[Jezza]

Really? You don't think the people who actually pay for the whole shooting match year in, year out and without whom the game does not exist - the fans, the mugs - might by now have formed a valid opinion about whether or not a strong version of a club which has been part of a two-pronged, suffocating domination of Scottish football for over a quarter of a century is a good thing? Especially when it transpires that said club doesn't bother paying its taxes and issues illegal contracts?

 

I think we have a very good idea indeed of what is needed.

 

 

What would suggest would help St Johnstone and your Hibs' to get more supporters in to help the shortfall in rangers supporters bearing in mind they are almost always shite every season?

[Tiberius Stinkfinger]

?210,000 in ticket sales to begin with.

 

Whats the money difference between finishing 2nd and 3rd in the SPL ?

[colinmaroon]

Better stop the SFA and SPL enquiries then, because when it's proved categorically that Rangers have cheated with contracts, notwithstanding their cheating through tax evasion and using VAT and PAYE to run the club as they couldn't get an overdraft from the bank and, obviously Whyte wasn't going to put any money in himself -

 

when the truth comes out and the only course of action is to expel Rangers, what are these neanderthals going to do then?

 

And then, if an when the BIG tax bill comes in and, if they've not already gone, they finally go, what are these clubs going to do?

 

 

Introduce a new law that sanctions for wilfully deceiving the SFA and SPL and winning trophies, while denying others, that these sanctions don't apply to the OF?

 

 

We should be drawing up contingency plans for a future without Rangers, not crawling like spineless cretins to the biggest bully in the playground!

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

300k a year less coming in, 300k a year less spent... That's that problem sorted.

 

If people seriously want that disgusting club back in for peanuts like that then there is no point in carrying on with the SPL anyway. Jesus Christ.

[BlackJAC?]

Really? You don't think the people who actually pay for the whole shooting match year in, year out and without whom the game does not exist - the fans, the mugs - might by now have formed a valid opinion about whether or not a strong version of a club which has been part of a two-pronged, suffocating domination of Scottish football for over a quarter of a century is a good thing? Especially when it transpires that said club doesn't bother paying its taxes and issues illegal contracts?

 

I think we have a very good idea indeed of what is needed.

 

Unless anyone is privy to our club's accounts, then no, no one is in a position to give a valid opinion.

 

This isn't about what Rangers did, it's about how our club would cope with losing a further 200k or more a-season. I'm no mathematical expert, but our club would have to make contingency plans to make up for a further 200k shortfall. Which will mean there would be cuts of some sort.

[leginten]

What would suggest would help St Johnstone and your Hibs' to get more supporters in to help the shortfall in rangers supporters bearing in mind they are almost always shite every season?

 

The reason clubs are struggling financially, and in most cases are in debt, is that they pay mediocre players ridiculous money. Wages need to come down across the board. How much does two home gates against the Huns bring in? Enough to pay a Clum for the season? Clubs need to get real.

[Jezza]

Whats the money difference between finishing 2nd and 3rd in the SPL ?

 

 

Not sure of the figures but would it make much of a difference to sides who finish in the bottom 4?

 

3rd is fine, but the likes of St Mirren and Dunfermline won't finish there any time soon.

 

P.S it will be a lot less when the Sky deal is halved.

[leginten]

Unless anyone is privy to our club's accounts, then no, no one is in a position to give a valid opinion.

 

This isn't about what Rangers did, it's about how our club would cope with losing a further 200k or more a-season. I'm no mathematical genus, but our club would have to make contingency plans to make up for a further 200k shortfall. Which will mean there would be cuts of some sort.

 

As football comes to realise that it can't sustain salaries of thousands of pounds a week to mediocrities, there will be swingeing cuts across the board. And they can't come soon enough.

[IMA MAROON]

These guys have some big decisions to make and don't deserve the spineless, lapdog, old firm apologist types comments thrown at them.

 

They are in charge of clubs that are over 100 years old and they have to think about what is the right thing to do.

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

Unless anyone is privy to our club's accounts, then no, no one is in a position to give a valid opinion.

 

This isn't about what Rangers did, it's about how our club would cope with losing a further 200k or more a-season. I'm no mathematical expert, but our club would have to make contingency plans to make up for a further 200k shortfall. Which will mean there would be cuts of some sort.

 

We would just spend that same amount less by paying reasonable wages surely. No?

[Diego10]

Unless anyone is privy to our club's accounts, then no, no one is in a position to give a valid opinion.

 

This isn't about what Rangers did, it's about how our club would cope with losing a further 200k or more a-season. I'm no mathematical genus, but our club would have to make contingency plans to make up for a further 200k shortfall. Which will mean there would be cuts of some sort.

One player.

 

There would be a prize for finishing higher up the league, an extra European spot up for grabs and another 2 home games against someone else which would take a bit out of the shortfall.

 

And the team who'd suffer most financially is Celtic.

[The Mighty Thor]

The reason clubs are struggling financially, and in most cases are in debt, is that they pay mediocre players ridiculous money. Wages need to come down across the board. How much does two home gates against the Huns bring in? Enough to pay a Clum for the season? Clubs need to get real.

 

Quite.

 

The money we get in from 4 OF games at Tynie doesn't even pay David Obua's wages for the year.

 

Actually thinking that through, surely having no OF fans at games at Tynie would have been more of a competitive advantage than aything David Obua ever did in a Hearts jersey. Do you think we could raise retrospective criminal negligence proceedings against Csaba Laszlo for signing him?

[Getintaethem]

Bought and sold for Murdoch's gold.

[MacDonald Jardine]

Whats the money difference between finishing 2nd and 3rd in the SPL ?

 

Given it's funded by tv money it might not be very much in the future.

 

Boring as the SPL can be a procession of Celtic wins every year doesn't sound all that exciting.

 

When Aberdeen and Dundee United were challenging the finances were totally different and there wasn't much in the way of TV money.

 

In fact IIRC there was a TV blackout for part of 85/86.

[BlackJAC?]

One player.

 

There would be a prize for finishing higher up the league, an extra European spot up for grabs and another 2 home games against someone else which would take a bit out of the shortfall.

 

And the team who'd suffer most financially is Celtic.

 

If those sort of cuts were so easy to rectify, our own club wouldn't continue to make losses year in, year out.

 

As for finishing 2nd, do you seriously think weakening an already weakened team is going to improve our fortunes over the coming years? The cuts Romanov is already imposing on our club is moving us further down the table. We already need to cut our budget and that's with Rangers still in the league.

 

Almost every SPL club gets punted out of Europe before the competition gets serious, so again, weakening an already weakened team is only going to reenforce our piss poor showings in Europe. We simply don't stay in any competition long enough to make Europe a viable option. Also, what happens when we don't qualify for Europe?

[ivanhoe]

Is the main issue here the fact that most clubs in the league are in financial tatters.

 

These chairman may feel that if they throw the book at rangers (and i understand that not all clubs did the off shoring) then they may set a precedent should they enter administration themselves.

 

I am not saying its right but it is kind of understandable?

[kingantti1874]

These clubs are like leeches or parasites. If they need the old firm that much they deserve to die as professional clubs.. In fact that's what needs to happen. We shouldn't have any more than 15-20 anyway..

[Deevers]

Is the main issue here the fact that most clubs in the league are in financial tatters.

 

These chairman may feel that if they throw the book at rangers (and i understand that not all clubs did the off shoring) then they may set a precedent should they enter administration themselves.

 

I am not saying its right but it is kind of understandable?

They should be looking beyond all of this and working out how to put the SPL onto a proper and fair footing. The problem is that most of the chairmen of these clubs have been in part responsible for Scottish Football being in the state that is in. Most of them have sat on their hands and allowed the Old Firm to dictate the terms of the TV deals and the voting procedures for the SPL. Most of them are pretty gutless people who won't put their heads above the parapit and take any sort of lead.

 

There is little doubt that all they are doing just now is seeing how they can lessen Rangers pain - cowards the lot of them.

[leginten]

Given it's funded by tv money it might not be very much in the future.

 

Boring as the SPL can be a procession of Celtic wins every year doesn't sound all that exciting.

 

When Aberdeen and Dundee United were challenging the finances were totally different and there wasn't much in the way of TV money.

 

In fact IIRC there was a TV blackout for part of 85/86.

 

Wasn't that because of industrial action?

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

Just watched the Chairmen of half the clubs in the SPL slaver about how they need a strong Rangers.

 

In any other sport if one of your biggest competitors retires or suffers a serious injury, best wishes would be forth coming but the obvious opportunity it afforded you would be grasped.

 

The lack of ambition and belief in these clubs is pathetic, no wonder they win diddly squit.

 

The best era i can remember in Scottish football was when Aberdeen and Dundee Utd were prevalent and i dont remember any TV companies or sponsors threatening to withdraw support for the league then.

 

Its high time these chairmen grew a pair!

 

What is the obvious opportunity it would afford St Johnstone, St Mirren, Dunfermline and Killie?

[MacDonald Jardine]

Wasn't that because of industrial action?

 

Not according to wikipedia

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985?86_in_Scottish_football

[MacDonald Jardine]

What is the obvious opportunity it would afford St Johnstone, St Mirren, Dunfermline and Killie?

 

To be fair finishing ahead of the likes of us, Dundee United or Aberdeen would be easier for them than finishing ahead of Rangers.

 

The elephant in the room for all of this is Celtic.

[Debut 4]

Just watched the Chairmen of half the clubs in the SPL slaver about how they need a strong Rangers.

 

In any other sport if one of your biggest competitors retires or suffers a serious injury, best wishes would be forth coming but the obvious opportunity it afforded you would be grasped.

 

The lack of ambition and belief in these clubs is pathetic, no wonder they win diddly squit.

 

The best era i can remember in Scottish football was when Aberdeen and Dundee Utd were prevalent and i dont remember any TV companies or sponsors threatening to withdraw support for the league then.

 

Its high time these chairmen grew a pair!

All those mugs are just thinking about money mate. Tv money etc...what the OF bring in.

 

It`s perverse. Club`s need money to survive but its money, or money on tab, that is killing clubs and the game.

 

We don`t have enough people in high places and the right places who are football people and know what should happen and can bring change. Too many greedy bassas who don`t have a scooby.

[leginten]

Not according to wikipedia

 

http://en.wikipedia....ottish_football

 

Cheers - had forgotten the background to that.

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

To be fair finishing ahead of the likes of us, Dundee United or Aberdeen would be easier for them than finishing ahead of Rangers.

 

The elephant in the room for all of this is Celtic.

 

Celtic would have total domination for at least a decade and probably more which people seem happy to accept.

 

Finishing 2nd will just be the new 3rd. Big deal.

[i wish jj was my dad]

Unless anyone is privy to our club's accounts, then no, no one is in a position to give a valid opinion.

 

This isn't about what Rangers did, it's about how our club would cope with losing a further 200k or more a-season. I'm no mathematical expert, but our club would have to make contingency plans to make up for a further 200k shortfall. Which will mean there would be cuts of some sort.

 

I think that in 2005-06 Tynecastle was sold out just about every game. I am pretty confident that would happen again if we went into each season playing for a Champions League spot.

 

I haven't done the maths but I guess it would exceed any perceived benefit of Der Hun arriving at Tynecastle.