h-e-a-r-t-s Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 Two games recently, both involving Arsenal, where they have had to win. v Liverpool in the Champ League and v Man Yoo yesterday. Both games of the highest calibre with attacks going box to box, loads of chances, and loads of action. Two of the best games I've seen this season, and nothing like the dross you see early in the season with teams cautiously playing for a draw. So it struck me, what if we made it 4 points for a win, 0 points for a draw, and 1 point for a scoring draw. This would create the same situation as we've had recently, but for every game in the league. We'd have keepers coming up for corners in the 88th minute week in week out. It would be awesome! Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 No. Liverpool v Arsenal was a Champions League QF and United v Arsenal involved two teams whose philosophy is to attack and who can match each other. Teams going to these grounds shut up shop because they know that trying to take them on in footballing ability will see them destroyed. A good team will break these teams down and get the results they deserve. That's why United have won 26 of their 34 league games this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmfc_steve Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 or even ... 3pts win 0pts any kind of draw -1pt lose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennygarland1 Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 or even ... 3pts win 0pts any kind of draw -1pt lose IMO we should go back to 2pts for a win,the 3pts for a win was concocted by the bigger clubs FOR the bigger clubs,not for more attacking football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambovambo Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 When this was debated a long time ago, I put forward an idea to the papers, which didn't get taken up ... that of literally a game of two halves ... Win the first half and you get 2 pts Win the second half and you get 2 pts Score-draw either half and share those 2 pts (1 each) Win the game overall and you get 1 pt more It's a different allocation of the points, which punishes negative play (i.e. 0-0gets no points, and there's an added incentive to score (win) in both halves. So 0-0 draw = 0 points Win game 1-0 = 3 pts Win game 2-0, with a goal in each half = 5pts 2-2 (1-1 at ht) = 2pts each Downside might be teams trying to win each half 1-0 ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h-e-a-r-t-s Posted April 14, 2008 Author Share Posted April 14, 2008 No. Liverpool v Arsenal was a Champions League QF and United v Arsenal involved two teams whose philosophy is to attack and who can match each other. Teams going to these grounds shut up shop because they know that trying to take them on in footballing ability will see them destroyed. A good team will break these teams down and get the results they deserve. That's why United have won 26 of their 34 league games this season. so my idea would remove the incentive for the poorer teams to shut up shop and actually have a go at the home team. they would atleast need to to score to get any points so no point playing 5 in midfield or 5 at the back, or 1 man upfront. This may result in the odd team getting destroyed on occasion. But that's a good thing right? lots of goals = good viewing, right? man yoo v arsenal games are usually pretty dull affairs with each cancelling each other out. These recent games have been the exception, not the rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h-e-a-r-t-s Posted April 14, 2008 Author Share Posted April 14, 2008 When this was debated a long time ago, I put forward an idea to the papers, which didn't get taken up ... that of literally a game of two halves ... Win the first half and you get 2 pts Win the second half and you get 2 pts Score-draw either half and share those 2 pts (1 each) Win the game overall and you get 1 pt more It's a different allocation of the points, which punishes negative play (i.e. 0-0gets no points, and there's an added incentive to score (win) in both halves. So 0-0 draw = 0 points Win game 1-0 = 3 pts Win game 2-0, with a goal in each half = 5pts 2-2 (1-1 at ht) = 2pts each Downside might be teams trying to win each half 1-0 ... this seems like a similar idea to mine though a bit more complex. Would the likes of Clum be able to work out the math with 10 mins to go to know if he needs to score or not? i'm a sceptic. but i like any idea which encourages goals, and discrouages draws and defending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 so my idea would remove the incentive for the poorer teams to shut up shop and actually have a go at the home team. they would atleast need to to score to get any points so no point playing 5 in midfield or 5 at the back, or 1 man upfront. This may result in the odd team getting destroyed on occasion. But that's a good thing right? lots of goals = good viewing, right? man yoo v arsenal games are usually pretty dull affairs with each cancelling each other out. These recent games have been the exception, not the rule. That's the real problem - teams know they would get destroyed and then factors like goal difference come into play. If anything, teams would be even more defensive. A point for a draw is just reward, in my view. As for the entertainment thing, part of the joy of football is that the great games happen sporadically. It's one of the draws that brings you back because, amidst all the dross, there will be a gold nugget as just reward. If we had 'great' games every week, we would get blase about them and not remember the great games for what they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h-e-a-r-t-s Posted April 14, 2008 Author Share Posted April 14, 2008 That's the real problem - teams know they would get destroyed and then factors like goal difference come into play. If anything, teams would be even more defensive. A point for a draw is just reward, in my view. As for the entertainment thing, part of the joy of football is that the great games happen sporadically. It's one of the draws that brings you back because, amidst all the dross, there will be a gold nugget as just reward. If we had 'great' games every week, we would get blase about them and not remember the great games for what they are. okay, lets scrap goal difference too. now there's no reason to sit back. ever! interesting point about getting blase. I think it's a problem I'd like to have. i can't bring myself to watch midweek bolton v reading games that end 0 - 0 but if I knew both teams would be attacking at every opportunity and i would see goals then i think i'd watch. i think the sponsors would prefer it anyway. perhaps it would be a good rule for the neutral and for the fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 okay, lets scrap goal difference too. now there's no reason to sit back. ever! interesting point about getting blase. I think it's a problem I'd like to have. i can't bring myself to watch midweek bolton v reading games that end 0 - 0 but if I knew both teams would be attacking at every opportunity and i would see goals then i think i'd watch. i think the sponsors would prefer it anyway. perhaps it would be a good rule for the neutral and for the fans. Perhaps. I happen to think there's too much football on TV now, although now I have the time difference factor I control my access to both Scottish and English football. It changes the perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musemic Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 on the assumption that changing from 3 points for a win back to 2 points (ask your dads youngsters!) isn't an option because this is a policy adopted by FIFA. I'd go along with 3 points for a win and 1 point for a score draw - nowt for a 0-0 draw. Though I've seen some pretty good 0-0 games over the years they are greatly outnumbered by other, totally awful 0-0 games, I've been unfortunate enough to be at. It is supposed to be an entertainment industry after all (albeit hugely overpriced) so the teams need to be made aware of the need to entertain the paying public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambovambo Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 When this was debated a long time ago, I put forward an idea to the papers, which didn't get taken up ... that of literally a game of two halves ... Win the first half and you get 2 pts Win the second half and you get 2 pts Score-draw either half and share those 2 pts (1 each) Win the game overall and you get 1 pt more It's a different allocation of the points, which punishes negative play (i.e. 0-0gets no points, and there's an added incentive to score (win) in both halves. So 0-0 draw = 0 points Win game 1-0 = 3 pts Win game 2-0, with a goal in each half = 5pts 2-2 (1-1 at ht) = 2pts each Downside might be teams trying to win each half 1-0 ... With this, if you shipped 3 goals in the first half, there would still be something to play for ... i.e. win the second half 1-0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfstar Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 you cant have 0points for 0-0 and 1point for a score draw, or with 5 mins to go both teams could let each other score to get a point (match fixing ect) I like the 3 points for a win and 1 for a draw. Now only playing the old firm twice each season with 16 teams in the league could make it more intresting and a closer league....but thats for another thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h-e-a-r-t-s Posted April 14, 2008 Author Share Posted April 14, 2008 you cant have 0points for 0-0 and 1point for a score draw, or with 5 mins to go both teams could let each other score to get a point (match fixing ect) I like the 3 points for a win and 1 for a draw. Now only playing the old firm twice each season with 16 teams in the league could make it more intresting and a closer league....but thats for another thread match fixing is the result of unscrupulous people within the game, it isn't borne out of the points structure. you think teams would agree to let eachother both score a goal to get an extra point? i wouldn't think so. more like they would both see the advantage in winning and go hell for leather to win the game. this isn't hmfc-italia-kickback is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambovambo Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 match fixing is the result of unscrupulous people within the game, it isn't borne out of the points structure. you think teams would agree to let eachother both score a goal to get an extra point? i wouldn't think so. more like they would both see the advantage in winning and go hell for leather to win the game. this isn't hmfc-italia-kickback is it? Good point - how could you trust the other team to let you score after you had let them score ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.J Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 I've an incredibly radical idea. Fitba is biggest and best sport in the world - stop ****ing about with it. Crazy, I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfstar Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 match fixing is the result of unscrupulous people within the game, it isn't borne out of the points structure. you think teams would agree to let eachother both score a goal to get an extra point? i wouldn't think so. more like they would both see the advantage in winning and go hell for leather to win the game. this isn't hmfc-italia-kickback is it? but you can see the point. 5 mins to go and its 0-0. Both teams would rather draw and get the point than draw and get no points. Any way as I.J. says, its the best sport in the world so lets leave it be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h-e-a-r-t-s Posted April 14, 2008 Author Share Posted April 14, 2008 but you can see the point. 5 mins to go and its 0-0. Both teams would rather draw and get the point than draw and get no points. Any way as I.J. says, its the best sport in the world so lets leave it be it IS the best sport in the world. but there is still significant room for improvmenet. changes happen every year for the good of the game. the pass back rule, the points structure, the offside (interfering with play) rule...some are good, some are bad, but refinements are as nescessary as evolution. games towards the end of the season, when they mean something, are often the best games of the entire season. i think its possible to create an environment where such games would thrive on a more regular basis througout the season. imagine first game of the season and it's 0-0, neither team wants to lose right now. but with my system, both teams would be taking defenders off for strikers in order to get that vital goal. it would be awesome, all guns blazing stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas-voss Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 When this was debated a long time ago, I put forward an idea to the papers, which didn't get taken up ... that of literally a game of two halves ... Win the first half and you get 2 pts Win the second half and you get 2 pts Score-draw either half and share those 2 pts (1 each) Win the game overall and you get 1 pt more It's a different allocation of the points, which punishes negative play (i.e. 0-0gets no points, and there's an added incentive to score (win) in both halves. So 0-0 draw = 0 points Win game 1-0 = 3 pts Win game 2-0, with a goal in each half = 5pts 2-2 (1-1 at ht) = 2pts each Downside might be teams trying to win each half 1-0 ... So what if it has been an absolutely storming game of football with both goalkeepers playing brilliant,goaline clearances and shots rattling the bar the game still ends 0-0.Don't you think it would be a bit unfair that despite both teams efforts to score they are awarded zero points at the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juanimator Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 I wouldnae mind seeing a point for every goal scored, that must encourage teams to attack. Even if you get beat 5-4, you'd still pick up 4 points, giving reward for actually trying win the game. Admittedly this idea could also lead to match fixing eg:- The SPL could arrange it so Septic play St Midden on the final game of the season knowing that St Midden will lie down and concede enough goals for Septic to win the league every year. I'm not paranoid . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 The whole theory seems predicated on the idea that higher scoring games are desirable. This is a beguiling notion but, as anyone who has ever attended a Basketball game will confirm, the excitement attached to an individual score becomes devalued as they become more abundant. It's why Cricket spectators get excited about wickets falling but only clap politely as the ball is smartly knocked away for two. If you are convinced that defenders and goalkeepers have it too easy and are determined to make life harder for these enemies of entertainment then you might consider a system that was tried in the USA where the league sponsorship money is divided according to goals scored as opposed to league position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gadgey55 Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 Bonus points for an away win would make the away side play a bit less defensivley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarhead Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 That's the real problem - teams know they would get destroyed and then factors like goal difference come into play. If anything, teams would be even more defensive. A point for a draw is just reward, in my view. As for the entertainment thing, part of the joy of football is that the great games happen sporadically. It's one of the draws that brings you back because, amidst all the dross, there will be a gold nugget as just reward. If we had 'great' games every week, we would get blase about them and not remember the great games for what they are. That's pretty much how I see it as well. I would liken it to the way red cards are dished out these days. Once upon a time 1 red card in a game was back page news. 2 red cards would be front page news. Nowadays a red card is no big deal. About the only rule change in the last 20 years worth its salt is the outlawing of the passback. We could do with a period where we stop tinkering with the rules for the sake of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoked-Glass Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 If your going to make it 4 points for a win and nothing for draw or loss you might as well make it 1 point for a win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambovambo Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 So what if it has been an absolutely storming game of football with both goalkeepers playing brilliant,goaline clearances and shots rattling the bar the game still ends 0-0.Don't you think it would be a bit unfair that despite both teams efforts to score they are awarded zero points at the end. I know - that's a tricky one. Can't come up with an answer to that ... but it's not frequent ... the really crackin' nil-nil draw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Grimes Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 When this was debated a long time ago, I put forward an idea to the papers, which didn't get taken up ... that of literally a game of two halves ... Win the first half and you get 2 pts Win the second half and you get 2 pts Score-draw either half and share those 2 pts (1 each) Win the game overall and you get 1 pt more It's a different allocation of the points, which punishes negative play (i.e. 0-0gets no points, and there's an added incentive to score (win) in both halves. So 0-0 draw = 0 points Win game 1-0 = 3 pts Win game 2-0, with a goal in each half = 5pts 2-2 (1-1 at ht) = 2pts each Downside might be teams trying to win each half 1-0 ... for some reason I really feel like having a Budweiser right now.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tane Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 Wasn't there a guy down south last year who wanted any games ending in a draw to go to penalties to fight for the "3rd point"? i.e. If the game ends 0-0, 1-1, 2-2 etc. Each team gets a point, but a further point is available in a penalty shootout. Sounds interesting, although I don't know if it would catch on or become popular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 Should be two points for a win and one for a draw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimeBandit Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 All this ersing about with points is well.. erse!! I grew up playing rugby when they had 4 for a try and 2 for a conversion etc... then it changed and the quality of rugby has diminished drastically since.. Also, anyone remember 94 world cup? USA etc.. When USA was being touted as potential host the media wanted to make it 3 points for a goal.. because Americans haven't got the brains to envisage a team winning 1 nil... they thought the higher score lines (for instance 9-3... actually 3-1..) would produce hieghtened interest from USA and thus finally help soccer arrive there.. Its the same with these wild ideas for points. It should be 2 for a win. 1 for a draw. None for a loss. End OF. Fair and to the point.. I think it would be better to outlaw systems whereby managers aren't managers and 4-5-1 at home game after game is punishable by naked whippings through the streets for the owners... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudi Skacel Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 When this was debated a long time ago, I put forward an idea to the papers, which didn't get taken up ... that of literally a game of two halves ... Win the first half and you get 2 pts Win the second half and you get 2 pts Score-draw either half and share those 2 pts (1 each) Win the game overall and you get 1 pt more It's a different allocation of the points, which punishes negative play (i.e. 0-0gets no points, and there's an added incentive to score (win) in both halves. So 0-0 draw = 0 points Win game 1-0 = 3 pts Win game 2-0, with a goal in each half = 5pts 2-2 (1-1 at ht) = 2pts each Downside might be teams trying to win each half 1-0 ... Whats the point in calling it a half? 1st leg of the game and second leg of the game. Keep it as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wibble Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 Two games recently, both involving Arsenal, where they have had to win. v Liverpool in the Champ League and v Man Yoo yesterday. Both games of the highest calibre with attacks going box to box, loads of chances, and loads of action. Two of the best games I've seen this season, and nothing like the dross you see early in the season with teams cautiously playing for a draw. So it struck me, what if we made it 4 points for a win, 0 points for a draw, and 1 point for a scoring draw. This would create the same situation as we've had recently, but for every game in the league. We'd have keepers coming up for corners in the 88th minute week in week out. It would be awesome! Thoughts? Not true. No team could maintain "end of season" tempo throughout a whole season. Current system is OK. There will always be average games regardless of how you muddle it. Some of the other suggestions are worthy of inclusion on hibs.net!!!! 5 points for a goal in each half??? Why not just turn the pitch into a giant pinball table and allow the fans to jump up and down on the huge flipper buttons in the stand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4marsbars Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 I wouldn't change the points system, but I think we could encourage attacking football by making the rules harsher on foul play. The reason that there are (still) too many fouls is that committing foul play gives a defending team a huge advantage. You commit a free kick, and as long as you stop your opponent from taking it quickly, you'll get the referee to come along and hold up play for as long as it takes you to organise your defence. Too often, it's like the team that was fouled against gets penalised. Similarly, some refs wait ages to let an injured player back on the pitch, as if administering some kind of punishment. Mad. So why not: - allow attacking team to take a quick free kick at any spot between where the foul was committed and where the ball landed (OK, there are times when the ref wants to stop play to cool things down or make a booking or both - but he could do that next time the ball goes out of play) - disallow any opposing player from touching/kicking the ball any time after the ref has blown for a foul (booking) against their team - allow players to take a free kick to themselves (so you could just get up and go, without waiting for support); the requirement that you must pass (or shoot) is crazy - who is being penalised after all? - restrict the number of defenders who could get between the ball and the goal line by ruling that if, at the time the foul was committed there was only one defender between the foul and goal line, only one defender can be between the ball and the goal when the kick is taken (all other players must not be between the ball and the goal-line, and not within ten yards of the ball), and so on. Count the number of fouls committed by each player as in basketball and use a sin-bin after four (or whatever) I'm not saying all these changes would work, but it would be an interesting experiment. As long as players have an incentive to commit foul play, they will do so. Take away that incentive, and you'd get fewer fouls and more attacking football. (Another downside to this is that it also gives greater incentive for players to dive) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2 Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 4 points for a win, 1 for a draw and 0.5pts for every goal scored. Then it is never mathematically possible to have the league wrapped up before the last game of the season. Oh -3 points if you play in blue or green. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRY Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 IMO, 3 points for a win, combined with playing the Old Firm 4 times a season has been the worst thing for Scottish football for a long time. It's just another reason that makes it easier for nobody but the Old Firm to win the league... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h-e-a-r-t-s Posted April 15, 2008 Author Share Posted April 15, 2008 If your going to make it 4 points for a win and nothing for draw or loss you might as well make it 1 point for a win. we can't do that because we're awarding 1 point for a score draw and a win must be valued a lot higher that a score draw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h-e-a-r-t-s Posted April 15, 2008 Author Share Posted April 15, 2008 Not true. No team could maintain "end of season" tempo throughout a whole season. Current system is OK. There will always be average games regardless of how you muddle it. Some of the other suggestions are worthy of inclusion on hibs.net!!!! 5 points for a goal in each half??? Why not just turn the pitch into a giant pinball table and allow the fans to jump up and down on the huge flipper buttons in the stand? i'd like to see them try. by all means reintroduce the winter break to let them recover for a few weeks. perhaps even a spring break too for 2 weeks to allow recovery. the pinball idea i don't agree with. just not sure it would be practical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john brownlee Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 IMO we should go back to 2pts for a win,the 3pts for a win was concocted by the bigger clubs FOR the bigger clubs,not for more attacking football. got to agree with you Kenny you could see the squirm wringing their hands with glee when it was changed and of course the smaller league of ten + teams was an added bonous correct me if I'm wrong was it not still two points a win when the SPL was constructed. Anyway the whole set up was geared for the squirm, flock the rest BTW you dont want to put ideas in to gordhun smith's pea brain, he might just go for it :5643::5643: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allystrachan Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 what ever hapens.. 0-0 draws dont deserve any points! i would quite happy see that become a reality, even if it was hearts drawing 0-0 (unless we need a point to win the league, but maybe we can worry about that at the time! lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Shin Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 win = 3pts score draw = 1 pts no score draw = 0 pts.....usually boring and deserve nil point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Statto Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 I think France was looking to introduce something a few years ago. If a team scored over 2 goals, they got 1 extra bonus point. so; win 2+ goals = 4 points win 2 and under = 3 points draw 2+ goals = 2 points draw 2 and under = 1 point lose but score 2+ = 1 point lose and score 2 or under = 0 points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo66 Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 win = 3ptsscore draw = 1 pts no score draw = 0 pts.....usually boring and deserve nil point Is 0 points for a no score draw because there have been no goals or because the game is boring? If it is because there have been no goals, then that is much the same as suggesting that extra points should be awarded for scoring goals. If it is because the game is boring, then we are into the realms of having a subjective test for deciding whether or not a game is boring and thus neither team should get any points. What about a game where, but for the briliiance of one keeper, the game would have finished 6-0? Is it really fair to award no points to either team? Also, what happens if there is 5 minutes left and the score is 0-0. There is an incentive for each team to let the other score, so that they both get a point. I am with other posters who say we should go back to 2 for a win and 1 for a draw. Anything else positively assists the bigger teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarhead Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 Is 0 points for a no score draw because there have been no goals or because the game is boring? If it is because there have been no goals, then that is much the same as suggesting that extra points should be awarded for scoring goals. If it is because the game is boring, then we are into the realms of having a subjective test for deciding whether or not a game is boring and thus neither team should get any points. What about a game where, but for the briliiance of one keeper, the game would have finished 6-0? Is it really fair to award no points to either team? Also, what happens if there is 5 minutes left and the score is 0-0. There is an incentive for each team to let the other score, so that they both get a point. I am with other posters who say we should go back to 2 for a win and 1 for a draw. Anything else positively assists the bigger teams. I've got to agree with J66 here. 3 points for a win was introduced to encourage attacking play. Anyone fancy arguing the case that that has been a success? A good example is the recent celtic/Motherwell games. 0-1 for Motherwell at Parkhead. 1-4 (IIRC) for celtic at Fir Park. Was the second game more 'exciting'? Whos win was the greater acheivment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.