Vlads ex bank building back up for sale

[Russian Hats]

The old Rbs building vlad bought a year or so again is up for sale again.

 

Don't shoot the messenger.

[vegas-voss]

The old RHS building vlad bought a year or so again is up for sale again.

 

Don't shoot the messenger.

 

For a nice wee profit i bet

[Russian Hats]

For a nice wee profit i bet

 

you would think so but market is not strong. Saying that Edinburgh always seems to have its own market.

[Jammy T]

For a nice wee profit i bet

 

well he bought it for 20% above the next closest bid - allegedly

 

and the commercial property market is currently tanking

 

he was very public about his plans for this place, I presume he will be just as public about why he has changed his plans

 

reeks of desperation and definitely a(nother) change of strategy

 

ukio bankas opened up yet?

[The Real Maroonblood]

well he bought it for 20% above the next closest bid - allegedly

 

and the commercial property market is currently tanking

 

he was very public about his plans for this place, I presume he will be just as public about why he has changed his plans

 

ukio bankas opened up yet?

 

His dreams for us are just nightmares.

[SUTOL]

The old Rbs building vlad bought a year or so again is up for sale again.

 

Don't shoot the messenger.

 

Source?

[Drylaw Hearts]

.....ukio bankas opened up yet?

 

 

[Walter Kidd]

Possibly to fund his purchase of the Archerfield complex?

[Boris]

Possibly to fund his purchase of the Archerfield complex?

 

Is that like the Dharma Initiative?

[The Real Maroonblood]

It could be to fund bringing in Nevo Scala.

[Sherlock]

Source? (selling agent etc?)

[SUTOL]

well he bought it for 20% above the next closest bid -

 

Source?

 

 

 

ukio bankas opened up yet?

 

Have they got a (uk banking) licence yet? They can hardly open and trade as a bank without one.

[Colonel Kurtz]

If true will be investigated.

Buy a property at well over market value,then sell quickly at a loss hmmmm.

All thats missing is paying in cash

[Russian Hats]

Not that suprised to be honest. Will be interested to see if he takes a hit on it.

 

Though perhaps should be a warning to us, that plans can change very quickly even when large amounts of money have been invested.

 

OP have any idea for the change of heart?

 

No idea of reason. Source is from mate in commercial property sector.

[Walter Kidd]

Is that like the Dharma Initiative?

 

You my man are far too well read for this site.

[Drylaw Hearts]

Possibly to fund his purchase of the Archerfield complex?

 

Archerfield ?

 

Is this the Golf Club that was rumoured to be of interest to him ?

 

 

CALA Homes are heavily involved in a project there.

 

 

 

Mmmmmmm........................

[Sherlock]

... Source is from mate in commercial property sector.

 

Not doubting that this is what you've been told but can your source confirm who the selling agent is?

 

A link to that companies subjects for sale perhaps?

 

This reeks of pish to me.

[Sherlock]

You my man are far too well read for this site.

 

 

Ach, he just watches too much telly WK.

[Dr. Bapswent]

A business deal like that must surely be death knell for the club, it must be some sort of sign and KBers should do thier upmost to read as much into this as possible so we can work ourselves into a frenzy of speculative hype.

 

The fact he is selling MUST have repercusions for the club.

 

The fact he is selling CANNOT be a good sign.

 

The fact he is selling MUST mean he is a swindler in some way.

 

The fact he is selling MUST mean he will do the same to Hearts.

 

The fact he is selling SURELY is an indictment of his business knowledge being terrible.

 

 

 

 

 

 

....or maybe its just a business deal.

[Arse 'Friends' Dyslexic?]

Vlad bought the ex-RBS buildings of 42 St Andrew Square and West Register Street.

I'm sure I read on here that his application to turn it into a hotel had been rejected - which is probably why he's now selling it.

[Sherlock]

A business deal like that must surely be death knell for the club, it must be some sort of sign and KBers should do thier upmost to read as much into this as possible so we can work ourselves into a frenzy of speculative hype.

 

The fact he is selling MUST have repercusions for the club.

 

The fact he is selling CANNOT be a good sign.

 

The fact he is selling MUST mean he is a swindler in some way.

 

The fact he is selling MUST mean he will do the same to Hearts.

 

The fact he is selling SURELY is an indictment of his business knowledge being terrible.

 

....or maybe its just a business deal.

 

Is it a fact that he is selling? or are you speculating also.....?

[Russian Hats]

Not saying the OP is wrong but I thought Vlad bought the BoS building, not the RBS one?

 

Its me who assumed it was rbs not bos. Mate said old bank building. I will try and find out more detail re agent etc. EEN is bound to be on to it if others know.

[Boris]

Ach, he just watches too much telly WK.

 

Ssshhhh....don't spoil the perception!

[Boris]

Its me who assumed it was rbs not bos. Mate said old bank building. I will try and find out more detail re agent etc. EEN is bound to be on to it if others know.

 

I think it was an RBS building.

 

On St Andrew Square there is the main RBS building with the BoS next door to the right as you face them. Then next to that on the right is the building in question which was RBS and it also went over onto West Register Street, above the greggs?

[Sherlock]

Its me who assumed it was rbs not bos. Mate said old bank building. I will try and find out more detail re agent etc. EEN is bound to be on to it if others know.

 

They will be now.

[Jambof3tornado]

Amazing that so much can be read into Vlad doing what Vlad does,you know,buying and selling. Its wont be at a loss,you dont make millions doing bum deals.

 

I like the Nevio scala plan!!!

[Jammy T]

Source?

 

 

 

 

 

Have they got a (uk banking) licence yet? They can hardly open and trade as a bank without one.

 

Nice selective quoting mate.

 

My overpayment comment was caveated by allegedly. It was someone on here that has com prop contacts I think.

 

There may not be a uk banking licence yet. The plans were for an opening in May or June last year. He has been renting a property since before then. It is shocking programming if he didnt factor in this delay. Should he not have tied up a banking licence before he started spending money on renting bank premises - IF THIS REALLY IS THE PROBLEM?

 

The bottom line is the Com Prop market peaked around 6 or 9 months ago. If you sell in a tanking market you do so because you need to release yourself from what essentially is a bad deal or someone has offered you a private sale you cant turn down

 

It WOULD make sense if someone had approached him privately to offer, say, ?30m (he bought it for ?24m I think) but from what the OP says that doesnt appear to be the case - it seems more likely it will go on the open market.

 

Maybe he is just testing the market.

 

If not why the change of heart?

[redm]

Vlad bought the ex-RBS buildings of 42 St Andrew Square and West Register Street.

I'm sure I read on here that his application to turn it into a hotel had been rejected - which is probably why he's now selling it.

 

There has been no planning application on that building. Not for a good few years anyway. He hasn't had anything turned down.

 

I'd like to know which agent is reportedly marketing this one. Maybe the OP could get back to his friend who works in commercial property and ask?

[Jammy T]

Amazing that so much can be read into Vlad doing what Vlad does,you know,buying and selling. Its wont be at a loss,you dont make millions doing bum deals.

 

 

Are you presuming in that comment that Vlad doesnt do bum deals?

[Mr Quagmire]

No idea of reason. Source is from mate in commercial property sector.

 

its not up for sale in any commercial property sector ?

[Jammy T]

There has been no planning application on that building. Not for a good few years anyway. He hasn't had anything turned down.

 

 

...and Edinburgh is crying out for more hotel space, and the redevelopment of the rest of St Andrews square. I dont think the council would turn down a sensible application for that site to be a hotel.

 

Maybe that Vlad will turn around a deal against the tide of the world commercial property market, but I just dont see how there can have been any growth in the last 12 months.

 

Has there been any refurb work done?

 

If he does turn around a profitable deal I will humbly apologise - cant see it though

[Cardiac Rucksack]

Rumor and hearsay the foundations Kickback is built upon.

[Boris]

.

 

Maybe he is just testing the market.

 

If not why the change of heart?

 

I'm sure I read on here that his application to turn it into a hotel had been rejected - which is probably why he's now selling it.

 

If this is true then that's probably your reason.

[Cliffundo]

Are you presuming in that comment that Vlad doesnt do bum deals?

 

I thought doing bum deals was Callum Elliots department?

[SUTOL]

Nice selective quoting mate.

 

Thanks, I usually try and just quote specific parts that need questioned, instead of quoting whole posts.

 

 

My overpayment comment was caveated by allegedly. It was someone on here that has com prop contacts I think.

 

I read you "allegedly" bit, and have heard it quoted before, but nobody seems to be able to substantiate the allegation with any facts, and this still appears to be the case.

 

There may not be a uk banking licence yet. The plans were for an opening in May or June last year. He has been renting a property since before then. It is shocking programming if he didnt factor in this delay. Should he not have tied up a banking licence before he started spending money on renting bank premises - IF THIS REALLY IS THE PROBLEM?

 

How much of the day-to-day running of Ukio is he involved in?

How long does it take to get a UK banking licence? what is the application process?

 

 

Maybe he is just testing the market.

 

If not why the change of heart?

 

Is he selling?

[Coco]

The only succour for the abysmal financial running of Hearts in the last 3 years has been the presence of the UBIG/Ukio Bankas group of companies providing financial assistance.

 

We have seen at Hearts that there has been a fire sale and cost cutting after initial overspending.

 

Ukio Bankas is too small to support the 'investments' in Edinburgh football and property assets so far.

 

Perhaps the St Andrews Square building was bought right at the top of the market - and perhaps the intention is now for a fire sale of those sorts of assets?

 

We see quotes of how big a company UBIG is and the assets it controls. I have never seen an estimate of its profitability nor its financing. It is conceivable that their financing is being tightened very quickly. Will there be more fire sales?

[SUTOL]

Ukio Bankas is too small to support the 'investments' in Edinburgh football and property assets so far.

 

From UBIG website relating got the St Andrews Sq development, "the design proposals are in progress and negotiations with potential funders - banks operating in Scotland"

[redm]

...and Edinburgh is crying out for more hotel space, and the redevelopment of the rest of St Andrews square. I dont think the council would turn down a sensible application for that site to be a hotel.

 

Maybe that Vlad will turn around a deal against the tide of the world commercial property market, but I just dont see how there can have been any growth in the last 12 months.

 

Has there been any refurb work done?

 

If he does turn around a profitable deal I will humbly apologise - cant see it though

 

Nope, nothing requiring any consent anyway...last thing was an application to remove the bridge link and do stone restoration work I think, and that was 2006.

 

Can't imagine why he would be selling this one unless it was an off market deal but then we'd be unlikely to hear anything about it until it was done anyway.

[Eggo]

The old Rbs building vlad bought a year or so again is up for sale again.

 

Don't shoot the messenger.

 

 

 

Bang....your shot Mr Hobo:cool:

[Coco]

From UBIG website relating got the St Andrews Sq development, "the design proposals are in progress and negotiations with potential funders - banks operating in Scotland"

 

Yes as I said, Ukio Bankas is too small. So they need to find finance elsewhere.

 

Oh dear, so they were going to use banks operating in Scotland. Guess this financing route might have just dried up ...

[martinb]

Archerfield ?

 

Is this the Golf Club that was rumoured to be of interest to him ?

 

 

CALA Homes are heavily involved in a project there.

 

 

 

Mmmmmmm........................

 

Gary o connor has bought one of the houses for 1.3 million

[redm]

Gary o connor has bought one of the houses for 1.3 million

 

Can't remember the details but I'm sure there was talk of Chris Robinson having one of those properties too....

[colinzeal]

Amazing that so much can be read into Vlad doing what Vlad does,you know,buying and selling. Its wont be at a loss,you dont make millions doing bum deals.

 

I like the Nevio scala plan!!!

 

Even people who have made millions make bad business decisions and do amazingly incur losses.

[Guest casper]

If true will be investigated.

Buy a property at well over market value,then sell quickly at a loss hmmmm.

All thats missing is paying in cash

 

And a loss making football club......??

[Jammy T]

Yes as I said, Ukio Bankas is too small. So they need to find finance elsewhere.

 

Oh dear, so they were going to use banks operating in Scotland. Guess this financing route might have just dried up ...

 

Which causes bigger potential problems for us as a whole - from another post I did elsewhere:

 

I'll paint a scenario that lets Vlad completely shaft us, and provides the perfect scenario for his standard modus operandi of blaming anything but himself.

 

In doing so I am aware that this might not always have been his intention as things have changed in the last 9 months - but remember that Vlad has been involved in the banking sector for a few years so he might just have known about the forthcoming problems.

 

The economy in the UK is currently on the turn, there are a few things currently happening which will likely have a direct impact upon the proposed stadium development:

 

1. the credit crunch

2. a drop in commercial property values

3. the start of businesses cutting costs

 

The credit crunch is meaning that you cant borrow large sums of money without some private equity involvement AND that the interest rates for that borrowing are higher than they were. If anyone thinks that Vlad wont need to borry the ?51m cost of this project they are in cloud cuckoo land. He might assume the risk but I doubt a single penny of his own money will go into this

 

He is therefore reliant upon either full 100% funding, or investment from a third party.

 

Com Prop prices are in free fall. I know for a fact that the only reason the proposed Stadium development is viable is because of the commericial property add-ons to the stand. The whole budget for the development will have been based upon a certain commercial property value at the end of the build. I think Com Prop prices are already down 25% from their peak with projections it will eventually be between 40-50%.

 

So far, therefore you have funding issues for the project, at the very best case scenario much more expensive financing costs, and you have an end product that might only be worth half of what it was forecast to be worth when this process started 2 years ago

 

If you were a third party with your own financing and business risks would you contribute any money to such a project?

 

Couple this with the fact that there will be a construction drain down to London for the olympics at the precise time we will need experienced stadium contractors AND that the cost of building materials and supplies are likely to inflate as a result of the commodity boom

 

BANG

 

The perfect excuse.

 

Planned or not, convenient or not, well intending or not.

 

What happens in the worst case scenario?

 

Well, the housing market downturn would affect 1. the number of housebuilders willing to invest in a new housing project which will contain exactly the sort of properties the market is currently flooded with - 2 bedroom flats, 2. even interested parties would not want to commit a lot of money for the land - we might not even get what Cala offered 4 years ago

 

Scary stuff.

 

If Vlad is genuinely a good business man and genuinely has the best long term intentions of the club at heart I would expect that he has no intention of starting construction - if he gets planning permission - for around 3 years.

 

At this stage credit should have stabilised, build costs will be lower in a depressed market, and there is a chance he will be getting in at the start of the next economic up-turn.

 

The sad thing is I dont believe either part of my italicised wording applies to Vlad

 

If he doesnt care a jot he gets out with as little a hit as possible and moves on. From a corporate perspective this would involve getting whatever assets he can out of the football club then allowing what is left to be liquidated.

 

Some might argue the process of maximising sales of assets from a club over a period is evidence of cost cutting, others might argue it is asset stripping....

[redm]

Which causes bigger potential problems for us as a whole - from another post I did elsewhere:

 

I'll paint a scenario that lets Vlad completely shaft us, and provides the perfect scenario for his standard modus operandi of blaming anything but himself.

 

In doing so I am aware that this might not always have been his intention as things have changed in the last 9 months - but remember that Vlad has been involved in the banking sector for a few years so he might just have known about the forthcoming problems.

 

The economy in the UK is currently on the turn, there are a few things currently happening which will likely have a direct impact upon the proposed stadium development:

 

1. the credit crunch

2. a drop in commercial property values

3. the start of businesses cutting costs

 

The credit crunch is meaning that you cant borrow large sums of money without some private equity involvement AND that the interest rates for that borrowing are higher than they were. If anyone thinks that Vlad wont need to borry the ?51m cost of this project they are in cloud cuckoo land. He might assume the risk but I doubt a single penny of his own money will go into this

 

He is therefore reliant upon either full 100% funding, or investment from a third party.

 

Com Prop prices are in free fall. I know for a fact that the only reason the proposed Stadium development is viable is because of the commericial property add-ons to the stand. The whole budget for the development will have been based upon a certain commercial property value at the end of the build. I think Com Prop prices are already down 25% from their peak with projections it will eventually be between 40-50%.

 

So far, therefore you have funding issues for the project, at the very best case scenario much more expensive financing costs, and you have an end product that might only be worth half of what it was forecast to be worth when this process started 2 years ago

 

If you were a third party with your own financing and business risks would you contribute any money to such a project?

 

Couple this with the fact that there will be a construction drain down to London for the olympics at the precise time we will need experienced stadium contractors AND that the cost of building materials and supplies are likely to inflate as a result of the commodity boom

 

BANG

 

The perfect excuse.

 

Planned or not, convenient or not, well intending or not.

 

What happens in the worst case scenario?

 

Well, the housing market downturn would affect 1. the number of housebuilders willing to invest in a new housing project which will contain exactly the sort of properties the market is currently flooded with - 2 bedroom flats, 2. even interested parties would not want to commit a lot of money for the land - we might not even get what Cala offered 4 years ago

 

Scary stuff.

 

If Vlad is genuinely a good business man and genuinely has the best long term intentions of the club at heart I would expect that he has no intention of starting construction - if he gets planning permission - for around 3 years.

 

At this stage credit should have stabilised, build costs will be lower in a depressed market, and there is a chance he will be getting in at the start of the next economic up-turn.

 

The sad thing is I dont believe either part of my italicised wording applies to Vlad

 

If he doesnt care a jot he gets out with as little a hit as possible and moves on. From a corporate perspective this would involve getting whatever assets he can out of the football club then allowing what is left to be liquidated.

 

Some might argue the process of maximising sales of assets from a club over a period is evidence of cost cutting, others might argue it is asset stripping....

 

 

Where did you get those figures on the com prop market? Moreover, are you absolutely certain that they apply to the Edinburgh market?

 

[Eggo]

Gary o connor has bought one of the houses for 1.3 million

 

 

Remember him,didnt he used to play in a 1st team once:rolleyes:

[john brownlee]

Rumor and hearsay the foundations Kickback is built upon.

 

 

 

And then they jump in with both feet

 

some on here as as bad as the hobo accounts department

[Buffalo Bill]

Dharma Initiative?

 

Boris, has Vlad and this guy (below) ever been spotted in the same place at the same time?

 

 

Buffalo Bill

 

.

[Jammy T]

Where did you get those figures on the com prop market? Moreover, are you absolutely certain that they apply to the Edinburgh market?

 

 

General economic reports I read - Moneyweek etc. Based upon national figures / predictions, but London is already going down. If London takes a hit Edinburgh will too.

 

In a downturn the com prop market tends to go just ahead of the housing market

 

Remember much of Edinburgh's industry is founded upon the finance sector. Thats the biggest casualty at present so there will be 1000s of job losses over the next year or so as the finance sector contracts and licks its wounds.