jbee647 Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Lets get this straight, there will always be a Heart of Midlothian Football Club, too many people love them and think far too much of them for the club to die. But i do fear that without investment in the future, we are in danger of becoming another Dundee, drifting between the SPL and the first division, we were in this position in the late 70s and early 80s, and although the first season 1977/78 was exciting, subsequent seasons getting beat in the premier league and dropping back down again were a bit of a nightmare, in fact had we not been promoted in 1983, part time football was a serios possibility at that point. The reason we ended up in that position was down to lack of investment over a number of years, results suffered, crowds dropped from average crowds of 22000 in 1965 to 9500 by 1971, subsequently although we were still the third biggest club in the country, people did not turn out to watch an average team that would invariably lose most weeks, 1967 we were 12th 1970 we were 4th 1971 we were 11th 1973 we were 12th, so by the time relegation came in 1977 it had been on the cards for years. People saying we must play the kids are living in cloud cuckoo land, a losing side will knock any heart and stuffing out of a young kid, in fact id say a club fighting for there future is the worst envoirment to blood young players. I understand we have to make cuts, but i really fear its going to be more painful than most of us can imagine, any Jambos from pre 1983 will know where im coming from, my biggest fear is we become another Dundee, a club saddled with huge debts who yo yo between the SPL and the first division with an ever decreasing fan base The reason we have been relatively succesful since 1983 was because subsequent owners invested and paid more wages than the other non old-firm clubs,which lead to higher attendances, which lead to relative success, if we pay the same as the Motherwells and the St Mirrens, then we become the Motherwells and the St Mirrens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eggo Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Dundee would love a fan base like us and I dont see us playing in front of 2000 in the near future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 **** me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Italian Lambretta Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 There is NO chance, even at our lowest ebb will we be worse than Hibs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 My biggest fear is herpes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbee647 Posted November 20, 2011 Author Share Posted November 20, 2011 Dundee would love a fan base like us and I dont see us playing in front of 2000 in the near future. i meant more in terms of yo yoing between divisions, im assuming you were around when the likes of Bill Lindsay and Bobby Parker never invested a penny in the club, by the time relegation came in 1977 it wasnt a complete shock was it ? I actually beleive we need a good coach first and foremost, what we wouldnt give for an Alex Macdonald Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbee647 Posted November 20, 2011 Author Share Posted November 20, 2011 There is NO chance, even at our lowest ebb will we be worse than Hibs. im assuming you werent around during the 1970s then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbee647 Posted November 20, 2011 Author Share Posted November 20, 2011 **** me! not while theres dogs in the street mate... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eggo Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 i meant more in terms of yo yoing between divisions, im assuming you were around when the likes of Bill Lindsay and Bobby Parker never invested a penny in the club, by the time relegation came in 1977 it wasnt a complete shock was it ? I actually beleive we need a good coach first and foremost, what we wouldnt give for an Alex Macdonald What makes you think we will be a yoyo team? And what are you basing this on? Because youve lost me im afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hearts_crazy Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Dundee?????? Are you for real? Did you see how much maroon and white was lining the streets of Edinburgh after our Scottish Cup wins? Their fan base is not even remotely close to ours, so this is a stupid comparison. Also when we did yoyo between two divisions in the late 70s early 80s I don't think our fan base diminished greatly, certainly not anywhere near the levels you are suggesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drylaw Hearts Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 I have my doubts that we'll ever be a yo-yo team anytime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debut 4 Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 I know its a diff landscape to 20,25 years ago but i wouldn`t mind us being like we were under Wallace Mercer. We still had the 3rd biggest wage bill but it was sensibly mapped out. We signed some good experience and young players...who were still better than what most other clubs had outside the OF..... But that also came down to good decisions at the top. We had a fine manager who knew what he was doing and we signed the right players. We have the 3rd biggest wage bill just now but have spent it horrifically at times and this is simply down to the circus behind the scenes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Bateman Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 My worst fear is repugnant Hivs interlopers infesting this board and people not seeing through it straight away. I'm so glad this fear hasn't been realised yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mouse Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Lets get this straight, there will always be a Heart of Midlothian Football Club, too many people love them and think far too much of them for the club to die. But i do fear that without investment in the future, we are in danger of becoming another Dundee, drifting between the SPL and the first division, we were in this position in the late 70s and early 80s, and although the first season 1977/78 was exciting, subsequent seasons getting beat in the premier league and dropping back down again were a bit of a nightmare, in fact had we not been promoted in 1983, part time football was a serios possibility at that point. The reason we ended up in that position was down to lack of investment over a number of years, results suffered, crowds dropped from average crowds of 22000 in 1965 to 9500 by 1971, subsequently although we were still the third biggest club in the country, people did not turn out to watch an average team that would invariably lose most weeks, 1967 we were 12th 1970 we were 4th 1971 we were 11th 1973 we were 12th, so by the time relegation came in 1977 it had been on the cards for years. People saying we must play the kids are living in cloud cuckoo land, a losing side will knock any heart and stuffing out of a young kid, in fact id say a club fighting for there future is the worst envoirment to blood young players. I understand we have to make cuts, but i really fear its going to be more painful than most of us can imagine, any Jambos from pre 1983 will know where im coming from, my biggest fear is we become another Dundee, a club saddled with huge debts who yo yo between the SPL and the first division with an ever decreasing fan base The reason we have been relatively succesful since 1983 was because subsequent owners invested and paid more wages than the other non old-firm clubs,which lead to higher attendances, which lead to relative success, if we pay the same as the Motherwells and the St Mirrens, then we become the Motherwells and the St Mirrens. Correct, I'd hate to be in Motherwells position at the moment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadKiller Dog Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 More than half the SPL clubs are just treading water . Dundee United are expecting to make a loss this season even after the Goodwullie money is added and will again be making cuts ,The Thompsons want out and are really only still there because of respect for there Mother ,Murderwell are doing well in the league but we have seen what Boyle has done there a few times . Hibs are running at a loss . Dunfermilne struggling ,Killie have large debts .Rangers are fecked . Inverness have needed investment from there owners every year . St Johnstone seem stable and the Stadium Move has helped St Midden (but arent they still looking for an owner ? ). We have one advantage with Vlad is that he has the ability if he chooses to leave us in a semi decent position time will tell . I think we will turn out in the end no better or worse than we have always been ,i expect a bumpy ride on the way . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rods Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 There is a lot worse teams than us out there so calm your jets a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin_T Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Lets get this straight, there will always be a Heart of Midlothian Football Club, too many people love them and think far too much of them for the club to die. But i do fear that without investment in the future, we are in danger of becoming another Dundee, drifting between the SPL and the first division, we were in this position in the late 70s and early 80s, and although the first season 1977/78 was exciting, subsequent seasons getting beat in the premier league and dropping back down again were a bit of a nightmare, in fact had we not been promoted in 1983, part time football was a serios possibility at that point. The reason we ended up in that position was down to lack of investment over a number of years, results suffered, crowds dropped from average crowds of 22000 in 1965 to 9500 by 1971, subsequently although we were still the third biggest club in the country, people did not turn out to watch an average team that would invariably lose most weeks, 1967 we were 12th 1970 we were 4th 1971 we were 11th 1973 we were 12th, so by the time relegation came in 1977 it had been on the cards for years. People saying we must play the kids are living in cloud cuckoo land, a losing side will knock any heart and stuffing out of a young kid, in fact id say a club fighting for there future is the worst envoirment to blood young players. I understand we have to make cuts, but i really fear its going to be more painful than most of us can imagine, any Jambos from pre 1983 will know where im coming from, my biggest fear is we become another Dundee, a club saddled with huge debts who yo yo between the SPL and the first division with an ever decreasing fan base The reason we have been relatively succesful since 1983 was because subsequent owners invested and paid more wages than the other non old-firm clubs,which lead to higher attendances, which lead to relative success, if we pay the same as the Motherwells and the St Mirrens, then we become the Motherwells and the St Mirrens. Dundee through the administration process, have relatively no debt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbee647 Posted November 20, 2011 Author Share Posted November 20, 2011 What makes you think we will be a yoyo team? And what are you basing this on? Because youve lost me im afraid. so im guessing all this talk of cutbacks is just scaremongering then, cos from where im looking, we have the third highest wage budget in the SPL and we do not look like even a top 6 side at the moment, so its not gonna look very clever when we start cost cutting, certainly not with the present incumbents in charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambogemz Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 One game we played in the first division -against Dundee- 22000 att Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbee647 Posted November 20, 2011 Author Share Posted November 20, 2011 Dundee?????? Are you for real? Did you see how much maroon and white was lining the streets of Edinburgh after our Scottish Cup wins? Their fan base is not even remotely close to ours, so this is a stupid comparison. Also when we did yoyo between two divisions in the late 70s early 80s I don't think our fan base diminished greatly, certainly not anywhere near the levels you are suggesting. sorry mate but these people aint been turning up for many games have they, and fans will desert the club in bad times, it has happened before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbee647 Posted November 20, 2011 Author Share Posted November 20, 2011 One game we played in the first division -against Dundee- 22000 att one game....once we had been down for the 3rd time crowds dropped below 5000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxteth O'Grady Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 , if we pay the same as the Motherwells and the St Mirrens, then we become the Motherwells and the St Mirrens. I've see both of them win the Scottish Cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory House M.D. Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 The 70's: The Era of The Real Phan! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Dundee through the administration process, have relatively no debt. Nor do they have any money.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbee647 Posted November 20, 2011 Author Share Posted November 20, 2011 anyway its just a fear i have, i hope it never comes to this obviously, but sitting in the pub last night talking about the Hearts, got to talking about Hearts pre Wallace Mercer, when in the words of Bob Crampsey we were run like "the local Bowling Club", the club cant be allowed to drift into neglect like it was back then, when apathy was apparent all through the club from directors players and fans alike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadKiller Dog Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Nor do they have any money.... Or own there stadium . There fan ownership recently refused to sell out to group of local businesmen which would have gave them more money , i think they wont do the same next time , and two senior figures in the fans group which saved there club stood down in the last 2 weeks . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moriarty Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Mr Romanov won't let this happen :greggy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbee647 Posted November 20, 2011 Author Share Posted November 20, 2011 The 70's: The Era of The Real Phan! im afraid football didnt start in 1992 with the birth of SKY sports. the 1990s the era of the TV fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craigieboy Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 If a two bob, shan outfit like hibs can survive a financial crisis then so can we. :greggy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorgie rd eh11 Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 My worst fear is repugnant Hivs interlopers infesting this board and people not seeing through it straight away. I'm so glad this fear hasn't been realised yet. The place is crawling. Oh no what if this happens, what if that happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Problem Officer? Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Don't talk shite. With teams like Inverness, Dunfermline, and Hamilton switching between the SPL and Division 1 every few years, in the dire current day and age we will never get relegated unless we were to somehow get like a 30 point deduction. To be blunt, for as long as Scottish football stays in its current, ransid state, there will always be several teams a lot more worse off than us each year. As for some of the other things you've shat in regards to not blooding some youngsters just because your team isn't playing too great (mid-table) etc, just sigh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Problem Officer? Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 And you're relating the game of today to what it was like 30 years ago - a lot has changed in this time. :Vlad-Stupid: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan_R Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Brown Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Dundee?????? Are you for real? Did you see how much maroon and white was lining the streets of Edinburgh after our Scottish Cup wins? Their fan base is not even remotely close to ours, so this is a stupid comparison. Also when we did yoyo between two divisions in the late 70s early 80s I don't think our fan base diminished greatly, certainly not anywhere near the levels you are suggesting. http://www.londonhearts.com/scores/sea/1980-81.html 1980/81 Attendannces gurlay fell below 5k in our last delegation year. In our last years of Wally, our regular crowds were around 8k, we have bucked the trend in Scottish football in the lt decade regarding crowds, mainly due to a belief that silverware was more than possible. Take way that belief and crowds WILL diminish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Cheever Loophole Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 http://www.londonhea...ea/1980-81.html 1980/81 Attendannces gurlay fell below 5k in our last delegation year. In our last years of Wally, our regular crowds were around 8k, we have bucked the trend in Scottish football in the lt decade regarding crowds, mainly due to a belief that silverware was more than possible. Take way that belief and crowds WILL diminish. I would like to think our support is not made up of predominately glory hunters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbee647 Posted November 20, 2011 Author Share Posted November 20, 2011 Our support is just like any other group of fans , they wiil disappear in the bad times and reappear when success appears more likely it happened before and it could just as easily happen again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Brown Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 I would like to think our support is not made up of predominately glory hunters. It's a fact of life, play good football and make a challenge the crowds will come. Play shite and lose the belief and the crowds stop. 1980/81 is total proof, football was a damn sight cheaper to attend back then in relative terms. What was the attendance for our last Scottish cup tie? Shows we are still capable of crap crowds. The start of each season under the mad one, I have believed we were to compete, season ticket sales show most of us believed that too. But the erratic stewardship shown by Romanov each season pulls the rug from under our feet, supporters eventually vote with their feet and stop going, most of us are ST holders, we pay our money in advance. But what of our pay at the gate supporters, they are the ones difficult to win back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 We've more chance of becoming like another Dundee if we don't change our ways - Dundee have massively overspent twice and gone into administration twice as a result, they got relegated and overspent trying to get out of the first division - that's what crippled them again. We have to mend our own ways and learn to live within our means - if anything we've suffered from over-investment in the team not underinvestment. Overspending is our problem and continuously living beyond our means is our biggest threat - if we don't take charge of our own behaviour and change voluntarily then insolvency could force massive change upon us involuntarily and subsequent weakness like Dundee! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Cheever Loophole Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 It's a fact of life, play good football and make a challenge the crowds will come. Play shite and lose the belief and the crowds stop. 1980/81 is total proof, football was a damn sight cheaper to attend back then in relative terms. What was the attendance for our last Scottish cup tie? Shows we are still capable of crap crowds. The start of each season under the mad one, I have believed we were to compete, season ticket sales show most of us believed that too. But the erratic stewardship shown by Romanov each season pulls the rug from under our feet, supporters eventually vote with their feet and stop going, most of us are ST holders, we pay our money in advance. But what of our pay at the gate supporters, they are the ones difficult to win back. I know what your saying,what were we paying back in '81?Something in the region of ?3-50 IIRC.I'm not clever enough to work out the cost compared with take home pay then and today,but It's the add on's that the killer,travelling,the price of a pint and food,especially if you are taking young ones. I remember the Pieman putting up the price of a season ticket,saying if we wanted to keep the best players we had to pay the best wages and after he got all the season ticket money in,he sold them regardless. Whatever the future holds,I feel that the Supporters will turn out,if only to keep our Hearts beating. (shocking pun) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hearts_crazy Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 http://www.londonhea...ea/1980-81.html 1980/81 Attendannces gurlay fell below 5k in our last delegation year. In our last years of Wally, our regular crowds were around 8k, we have bucked the trend in Scottish football in the lt decade regarding crowds, mainly due to a belief that silverware was more than possible. Take way that belief and crowds WILL diminish. Right enough, we are all glory hunters, that's why we support Hearts Actually if we were in the first division (a moot point, it will never happen so dry your eyes princess) we would be in with a really good chance of siverware,the League championship. BTW regular crowds of 8k are still more than most SPL teams can muster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shapes Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Feck me this place is full of doom and gloom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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