Juniors League

[Locky]

Don't know an awful lot about this level of football but what I do know is they have a few decent teams and some of the biggest teams can attract attendances bigger than most division 2 and even 1 teams. Is this another reason why Scottish football should be re-developed.

 

I'm not overly fussed about changing the SPL format, I just feel the whole of Scottish football would benefit as a whole if there was a complete revamp.

[NewYorkJambo]

Don't know an awful lot about this level of football but what I do know is they have a few decent teams and some of the biggest teams can attract attendances bigger than most division 2 and even 1 teams. Is this another reason why Scottish football should be re-developed.

 

I'm not overly fussed about changing the SPL format, I just feel the whole of Scottish football would benefit as a whole if there was a complete revamp.

 

The top junior teams could play in Division 2 at the moment, possibly then growing to be bigger than that.

 

However, I don't agree with your comment about some of them attracting bigger attendances that Division 1 teams. Perhaps in one off cup finals or in the Scottish Cup, but not on average.

 

A couple of junior sides are in the Scottish Cup this weekend. Bo'ness United play Cowdenbeath, for example.

[Locky]

The top junior teams could play in Division 2 at the moment, possibly then growing to be bigger than that.

 

However, I don't agree with your comment about some of them attracting bigger attendances that Division 1 teams. Perhaps in one off cup finals or in the Scottish Cup, but not on average.

 

A couple of junior sides are in the Scottish Cup this weekend. Bo'ness United play Cowdenbeath, for example.

 

Yeah, albeit once in a blue moon but its happened recently. Cowdenbeath had pretty low figures in division 1 last year.

[Carl Fredrickson]

I regularly watch my local Junior team and you are lucky if 60 folk turn up.

 

What I will say that it is better value for money than the SPL. ?5 admission and some cracking banter and being able to stand at the game is a big bonus.

 

The quality of football aint the greatest but neither is most of the fare in the SPL.

 

Top junior sides will attract a couple of hundred (maybe more) every week but they are good at their level and the "success" that they have helps draws in the punters. For most junior teams I doubt that stepping up into the SFL would bring much financial reward due to the lack of cup wins etc resulting in a decrease in crowds.

 

I know a few folk on KB follow the juniors too so it will be interesting to hear other views.

[Paolo]

The top junior teams could play in Division 2 at the moment, possibly then growing to be bigger than that.

 

However, I don't agree with your comment about some of them attracting bigger attendances that Division 1 teams. Perhaps in one off cup finals or in the Scottish Cup, but not on average.

 

A couple of junior sides are in the Scottish Cup this weekend. Bo'ness United play Cowdenbeath, for example.

They could play at that level but they do not want to.

 

They would need to meet various SFA regulations after registering as members, which can be costly.

 

I also think there are differences to the way they set up as a business and taxed (could be wrong). I think that is one reason why they manage to sign decent ex pros that lower league clubs can not. I also think that is why some league clubs objected to their participation in the Scottish Cup.

[jamie1874]

I regularly watch Pollok Juniors.

 

Where they get crowds to match or beat Div 2/3 it?s also helped by the fact its only ?5 to get in.

At the game at the weekend there was just over 800 (v Irvine Meadow) and at the end of last season 1500 at Pollok V Arthurlie in the West of Scotland cup final.

 

A lot of junior teams are not interested in joining the SFL as you have to pay membership costs ? this is also why a lot of SFL opposed juniors in the senior Scottish cup as they felt they were getting everything they wanted without contributing.

 

So there is a bit of a resentment to junior sides in the Scottish cup as they are good sides (the 3 super league winners and the Scottish winners qualify) and will beat the non league sides, so restricting these teams chances to a big pay day.

 

There will be some junior sides who would fancy a crack at senior football but as already posted the negative is they become a small fish in the big pond ? less opportunity to win ? less crowds ?downward spiral.

[jamie1874]

They could play at that level but they do not want to.

 

They would need to meet various SFA regulations after registering as members, which can be costly.

 

I also think there are differences to the way they set up as a business and taxed (could be wrong). I think that is one reason why they manage to sign decent ex pros that lower league clubs can not. I also think that is why some league clubs objected to their participation in the Scottish Cup.

 

I think juniors had to change a few seasons ago how they pay the players and now they are under the same scrutiny as other levels of football so tax and NI needs paid.

 

But a good few seasons ago money would have been cash in hand and players could make a nice bit of pocket money

[NewYorkJambo]

As rightly mentioned on here, the fact that the top junior teams are successful, and that it only costs a fiver to get in, are reasons why they get quite good crowds.

 

Many junior teams get very poor crowds. It is your Linlithgow Rose's, Bo'ness United's and even your Penicuik Athletic's who can attract a few people. But huge crowds are not the norm in junior football. Edinburgh United, despite being in a bigger city, hardly get anyone.

[Schevchenko]

Whitburn used to be a good team they are pish now tho! Remember a Scottish cup tie v Broxburn many years ago central park was absolutely packed great atmosphere.

[DalryJambo]

This, for me, is one of the problems with top flight football in this country. All junior and youth football should kick off at 11 on a Saturday morning. Think of all the potential fans up down the country that are involved in amateur football, that could be attending pro games instead. I played from under 13 to under 21 and it meant I could never regularly go to watch hearts.

 

Players, coaches, parents could be involved in a game at 11 and you could go ad a team to your local match in the afternoon. Could even be used as an 'classroom' style coaching session. Boys clubs could get discounted tickets from the clubs. Could benefit all aspects of the game.

[Del1812]

This, for me, is one of the problems with top flight football in this country. All junior and youth football should kick off at 11 on a Saturday morning. Think of all the potential fans up down the country that are involved in amateur football, that could be attending pro games instead. I played from under 13 to under 21 and it meant I could never regularly go to watch hearts.

 

Players, coaches, parents could be involved in a game at 11 and you could go ad a team to your local match in the afternoon. Could even be used as an 'classroom' style coaching session. Boys clubs could get discounted tickets from the clubs. Could benefit all aspects of the game.

 

100% agree.

 

It's also costing the Scottish games potentially fans as the better footballers don't get to strengthen their emotional attachment to the club they chose in primary school. A lot of the more successful footballers I knew from a young age would say they supported a team, but they didn't support them like I supported Hearts. These guys tend to know more, and feel more strongly about, their English team because these are the games they are able to watch with kickoffs on a Saturday night and all day Sunday.

[mahgrassyshoes]

This, for me, is one of the problems with top flight football in this country. All junior and youth football should kick off at 11 on a Saturday morning. Think of all the potential fans up down the country that are involved in amateur football, that could be attending pro games instead. I played from under 13 to under 21 and it meant I could never regularly go to watch hearts.

 

Players, coaches, parents could be involved in a game at 11 and you could go ad a team to your local match in the afternoon. Could even be used as an 'classroom' style coaching session. Boys clubs could get discounted tickets from the clubs. Could benefit all aspects of the game.

 

 

It's a decent throry, but it's a bit fecked at the top level thanks to tv. i play Sundays and missed playing a load of games this season thanks to Europe and playing the old firm where games were on the Sunday.

[Midfield Dynamo]

Whitburn used to be a good team they are pish now tho! Remember a Scottish cup tie v Broxburn many years ago central park was absolutely packed great atmosphere.

It was a great atmosphere.

I was on the bench for Whitburn that day.

 

The top junior teams could easily hold their own in the 2nd & 3rd divisions.

Far too many dinosaurs in the committee's to affiliate the juniors to the big leagues.

 

Imagine a set up like in England where conference teams can live the dream.

[maltese jambo]

Anyone interested in Junior football should just go along to a match; admission is cheap and standard of football isnt as bad as some folk have suggested on here. Musselburgh Athletic won 5-2 on the weekend and there were some high quality goals on show.

[Locky]

Anyone interested in Junior football should just go along to a match; admission is cheap and standard of football isnt as bad as some folk have suggested on here. Musselburgh Athletic won 5-2 on the weekend and there were some high quality goals on show.

 

Was gonna head along to that, was it not against Carnoustie. If so then that's a good score cos I remember Carnoustie making the Junior cup final a few years back. Speaking of which did they not used to televise those games?

[Locky]

A few interesting figures on the attendance subject. Have only been able to find attendances for the following cup finals but am listing the Challenge cup final attendances from the same season.

 

2008-09: Juniors: Auchinleck vs Clydebank - 8,122

Challenge Cup: Airdrie United vs Ross County - 4,031

 

2010-11: Juniors: Auchinleck vs Musselburgh - 6,025

Challenge Cup: Queen of the South vs Ross County - 5,124

[NewYorkJambo]

A few interesting figures on the attendance subject. Have only been able to find attendances for the following cup finals but am listing the Challenge cup final attendances from the same season.

 

2008-09: Juniors: Auchinleck vs Clydebank - 8,122

Challenge Cup: Airdrie United vs Ross County - 4,031

 

2010-11: Juniors: Auchinleck vs Musselburgh - 6,025

Challenge Cup: Queen of the South vs Ross County - 5,124

 

You would be better comparing lower league sides in the senior Scottish Cup.

 

The junior sides you listed were playing in the junior Scottish cup - which is more important than the junior league even. Then you have compared that with the Challenge cup - which is the least important trophy (more so than the league, the scottish, or the league cup) that Divs 1,2 and 3 play in.

 

You're comparing apples and oranges.

 

PLUS, the junior cup is still a lot cheaper and price does impact attendances

[Locky]

You would be better comparing lower league sides in the senior Scottish Cup.

 

The junior sides you listed were playing in the junior Scottish cup - which is more important than the junior league even. Then you have compared that with the Challenge cup - which is the least important trophy (more so than the league, the scottish, or the league cup) that Divs 1,2 and 3 play in.

 

You're comparing apples and oranges.

 

PLUS, the junior cup is still a lot cheaper and price does impact attendances

 

True in some instances, but for teams that don't really aim for promotion i'd imagine they take the challenge cup final seriously as it's a chance to see their side win something. It's harder to compare Scottish cup ties in a way too as you're not sure what percentage of the attendance was made up of home supporters. For instance, last season when Berwick played Celtic i'm fairly certain that the mhanks levelled, if not outnembered the Berwick support.