England & Wales poppy row

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

Where do people stand on this then?

 

England and Wales have been denied permission to wear the poppy on their shirts on Saturday as FIFA see it as a political message rather than an act of remembrance and argue that if they allow this, they would not be able to stop other teams using their shirt for political messages.

 

It has kicked up an almighty seeth in some folk with even call me dave demanding FIFA reconsider.

 

Personally, it all seems a bit of a mock outrage to me with people falling over themselves to get the most offended.

 

This isn't very dignified as this time of year should be.

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

Summed up quite nicely. Some are in danger of cheapening what the poppy stands for. I hate when folk use it as an excuse for faux outrage.

[fabienleclerq]

Fifa are an embarrasing,corrupt and morally bankrupt organisation who are more interested in what they and their mates can get for free at the expense of normal fans than whats best for the game.

 

Teams should tell them where to go and wear it,it's neither poliical or religous.

[Vlad-Stupid]

Couldn't care less whether they wore a poppy or not. Remembrance day isn't about football.

[rossthejambo]

I agree that FIFA shouldn't be sticking their noses in but I can't help thinking that it seems as if the FA are just wanting any excuse to have a go at FIFA.

 

In the grand scheme of things, it's cheapening the poppy and all it represents, IMO.

[Dot Cotton]

Why now? Why didnt England ask this over the last 80 years?

 

Poppies have become a fashion item more these days than what they actually stand for. We should be remembering the fallen, not argueing with FIFA.

[Socrates]

I think it's much better for FIFA to say no to all such requests.

[super_vlad]

Why now? Why didnt England ask this over the last 80 years?

 

Poppies have become a fashion item more these days than what they actually stand for. We should be remembering the fallen, not argueing with FIFA.

This, where has the outrage being over the 50 something years? Personally for me, remembrance has always being the minute silences on the 11th and standing in silence at the haymarket clock!

 

This thing is coming to a head for a few years, the poppy is a symbol of remembence of the dead on both sides of the great wars! Not to be confused with support the troops and wars that the right wing media want to turn it into! I feel sorry for the troops having to go to war to do someone else dirty work!

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

I agree there is a bit of an agenda going on here.

 

Look at some of some of the stuff they are doing to mark the day

 

• 
   
  
• 2 minute training ground silence on Friday
  
• 1 minute silence at the game
  
• Poppy wreath on the pitch
  
• Black armbands
  
• 500 tickets to troops
  
• Poppy on the training kit while the anthem is going on
  

 

Does this fuss really have to be kicked up even though they are doing all that?

[syndicalist]

Corporate finance outweighs the importance of a nation honouring their war dead, and there are people on this thread who think that's a good thing.

[Diego10]

it's total nonsense tbh. There is a mania about Poppy wearing in this country these days that is bordering on the fascist. I wear one through choice, but folk getting abused for not wearing one or people being pressured into it is totally wrong.

 

FIFA are right to ban it imo. Once you open the door for political symbols then it's only going to end one way. the players can wear poppies on their suits pre and post match, the fans can wear them and they can commemorate in lots of other ways.

[SE16 3LN]

Why now? Why didnt England ask this over the last 80 years?

 

Poppies have become a fashion item more these days than what they actually stand for. We should be remembering the fallen, not argueing with FIFA.

In fairness they don't have an International every year at this time of year. To me if it raises awareness then it can only be a good thing.

[Patrick Bateman]

I agree there is a bit of an agenda going on here.

 

Look at some of some of the stuff they are doing to mark the day

 

• 
   
  
• 2 minute training ground silence on Friday
  
• 1 minute silence at the game
  
• Poppy wreath on the pitch
  
• Black armbands
  
• 500 tickets to troops
  
• Poppy on the training kit while the anthem is going on
  

 

Does this fuss really have to be kicked up even though they are doing all that?

 

 

Simple, harking back to WW1 and 2 and trying to associate it with the failed wars/occupations in Iraq and Afghanistan makes the English/British feel that they are still important in world standings. I'm sure this view won't be entirely popular or supported on here, but I'm pretty sure that's why they're 'wearing their poppy with pride' and not 'for a dignified remembrance'.

[super_vlad]

Simple, harking back to WW1 and 2 and trying to associate it with the failed wars/occupations in Iraq and Afghanistan makes the English/British feel that they are still important in world standings. I'm sure this view won't be entirely popular or supported on here, but I'm pretty sure that's why they're 'wearing their poppy with pride' and not 'for a dignified remembrance'.

This 100%,

[Sten Guns]

The Poppy agenda has turned in to a farce these days.

[SUTOL]

Easy fix for the English FA, play the match outwith FIFA dispensation, i.e. a non 'official' friendly (it would still be against Spain and live on Sky, with a 'proper' referee etc) and they can wear what they want on their shirts.

 

Other option, announce that all match revenues and player fee's will be donated to the Poppy Appeal/British Legion, in place of wearing poppies on their tops.

[2NaFish]

Easy fix for the English FA, play the match outwith FIFA dispensation, i.e. a non 'official' friendly (it would still be against Spain and live on Sky, with a 'proper' referee etc) and they can wear what they want on their shirts.

 

Other option, announce that all match revenues and player fee's will be donated to the Poppy Appeal/British Legion, in place of wearing poppies on their tops.

 

Yes, because there would be no fall out from that.

[SUTOL]

Yes, because there would be no fall out from that.

 

Fall out from what?

[The Treasurer]

Why now? Why didnt England ask this over the last 80 years?

 

Poppies have become a fashion item more these days than what they actually stand for. We should be remembering the fallen, not argueing with FIFA.

 

 

This would explain why I see hardly any being worn in the Weeg, obviously don't go well with shell suits

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

I can't stand FIFA but I'm with them on this. It reeks of yet more cheapening of Remembrance Day. Too many folk caught up in my poppy, our freedom, our boys etc. When did this become about this generation? I'll be remembering those poor *******s 100 years ago, guys my age who were taken from their wives and kids and sent to die, terrified and alone much of them, in a war that was as much about freedom as it was about an argument over soup. That can't be represented by egotistical footballers, their even more egotistical WAGS, or their scummy fans.

[Optimus Prime]

Simple, harking back to WW1 and 2 and trying to associate it with the failed wars/occupations in Iraq and Afghanistan makes the English/British feel that they are still important in world standings. I'm sure this view won't be entirely popular or supported on here, but I'm pretty sure that's why they're 'wearing their poppy with pride' and not 'for a dignified remembrance'.

 

100% agree.

 

On the FIFA/FA debate. I think the people who are outraged about this are failing to see it in the context of wider global conflict. Imagine the **** storm that would be caused if Serbia wore something on their shirts to commemorate their war dead in the upcoming game against Croatia. If FIFA protested the Serbs would just point to this as a precedent and FIFA wouldn?t have a leg to stand on.

[Tiberius Stinkfinger]

Why now? Why didnt England ask this over the last 80 years?

 

Poppies have become a fashion item more these days than what they actually stand for. We should be remembering the fallen, not argueing with FIFA.

 

Perhaps they should have been doing this over the last 80 years and feel now is the time to atone for the mistake ?

 

Its turned into a Circus whatever the rights or the wrongs and that's probably what the English FA wanted to happen.

 

Takes the heat of the England captain being a racist at the very least.

[Guest Borat]

The poppy appeal is for a good cause.

 

Were Hearts accused of being 50 years too late in putting it on their shirts, or of cheapening the poppy?

 

I seem to remember the vast majority were in support of Hearts having the poppy on their kits. But this is about England, which is why the majority are now against it.

 

Simple, harking back to WW1 and 2 and trying to associate it with the failed wars/occupations in Iraq and Afghanistan makes the English/British feel that they are still important in world standings

 

 

Scotland want to honour Britain's war dead too.

 

The SFA have asked FIFA for permission as they want to be allowed to wear poppies on their tracksuits before the Cyprus game.

 

Looks like the Scots are just as bitter as the English about the UKs falling world standing. Shame.

[Dot Cotton]

This would explain why I see hardly any being worn in the Weeg, obviously don't go well with shell suits

 

There is nothing wrong with a shell suit.*

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*Unless you are in the vacinity of a flamable substance.

[speedbump]

Well here ends the argument, well done you ******* cretins!

 

[milky_26]

Well here ends the argument, well done you ******* cretins!

 

that is on the roof of FIFA HQ in Zurich

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

Well here ends the argument, well done you ******* cretins!

 

 

 

that is on the roof of FIFA HQ in Zurich

 

Jesus wept...

[Buffalo Bill]

Re the poppy. People should have the choice to wear one if that's what they so choose. 'Freedom of choice' is a cornerstone of democracy. I wear one, but I wouldn't demand that you do; not for one second.

 

 

Re the England strip: if the FA want to do this, then they should be able to. To me, all nations, such as England, are political entities, bound by common identity, language, culture, government, a land border etc. FIFA (a horribly corrupt orginisation) run football, on behalf of 'nations' (such as the World Cup) and profit greatly from it. Those nations are identified by their nationality, and nationality gives them their identity. In other words, all 'national' contests are 'political' by their very definition.

 

Thus, if FIFA profit from nations (which are 'political' entities), then surely those nations should be allowed to display their identity as they seem fit.

 

 

It's all or nothing for me.

 

 

 

.

[SUTOL]

If the nations want to participate under the auspices of FIFA then they should go along with FIFA's rules, surely.

 

As I said before in this thread, there is nothing to stop the match being held outwith FIFA and then they could wear strips made from poppies if they wished.

[Shanks]

I can't stand FIFA but I'm with them on this. It reeks of yet more cheapening of Remembrance Day. Too many folk caught up in my poppy, our freedom, our boys etc. When did this become about this generation? I'll be remembering those poor *******s 100 years ago, guys my age who were taken from their wives and kids and sent to die, terrified and alone much of them, in a war that was as much about freedom as it was about an argument over soup. That can't be represented by egotistical footballers, their even more egotistical WAGS, or their scummy fans.

 

 

Exactly how I feel. Can we not just remember the people who fought for our country, without getting outraged because football players arent allowed to wear a poppy during a match!

[Alba gu Brath]

Seems like a storm in a teacup. I can't remember this being an issue before. Why do some teams have to wear the poppy anyway? Surely the freedom won by our grandfathers means we can choose our own way of remembering. Does it have to be sanctioned by the BBC or whoever is kicking up this stink?

[vintage1874]

Did Scotland ever have plans to wear a poppy in the friendly?

Britain helped win both the world wars with a great loss of life. All the home nations should wear the poppy regardless of what FIFA/UEFA think or say.

 

 

What next will the players have to do funny salutes before games at the request of some mad dictator?

 

 

 

[Alba gu Brath]

Well here ends the argument, well done you ******* cretins!

 

 

Oh dear, just saw this... end of debate! The EDL are so patriotic they can't use their own language correctly.

[stirlo]

Why now? Why didnt England ask this over the last 80 years?

 

Poppies have become a fashion item more these days than what they actually stand for. We should be remembering the fallen, not argueing with FIFA.

 

Agree with you. It is cringworthy the extent to which the poppy has become politicised in recent years.

 

The England players can all wear the poppy on their training gear before the game and after the game, they can wear it for the rest of the week - and they are free to donate a month's wages to the poppy collection if they feel so strongly.

 

The whole argument is embarrassing.

[Francis Albert]

The whole poppy thing is getting ridiculous. There was an excuse, after two world wars with millions of dead and wounded for a war-bankrupted country to look to charity to look after the casualties. If the state can't afford to look after the relatively small number of casualties from today's military adventures, we shouldn't be participating in them.

[Juan Rom?n Riquelme]

I wonder who decided that a bunch of over paid ARSEHOLES having a poppy on their shirt was paramount to remembering Britain's war dead.

 

I'd rather it was kept to a minimum so that it is marked with quiet dignity rather than gibbering morons using it as a fashion statement.

[Francis Albert]

Meanwhile Private Eye reports that one of the FA's member clubs, Tranmere Rovers is seeking to sell for a housing development the local former school playing fields it bought some time ago as a training ground. Unfortunately the development will include the destruction of 88 mature poplar trees planted in memory of 88 former pupils of the school who died in WW1. One of the dead was the great WWI poet Wilfrid Owen.

 

Maybe something more appropriate for the FA to get involved in?

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

FIFA have agreed England can wear a poppy on their black arm bands against Spain.

 

Panic over.

[Gibbo]

Did Scotland ever have plans to wear a poppy in the friendly?

Britain helped win both the world wars with a great loss of life. All the home nations should wear the poppy regardless of what FIFA/UEFA think or say.

 

 

What next will the players have to do funny salutes before games at the request of some mad dictator?

 

According to the Daily Record, Scotland wanted to wear poppies on their strips. Instead, they will have poppies in their training tops, which they will keep on until kick off. The Record quotes an 'SFA insider' as saying that:

 

"All the Home Nations are pretty hacked off about the poppy ruling.

 

"But we have to respect Fifa's decision as they make the rules. It's not as if we are trying to promote alcohol or anything which could be deemed unsavoury for a young audience.

 

"It would have been great to showcase the new strip complete with poppies.

 

"But, by having them printed on the training tops, the lads will feel they are still able to pay their respects to those who lost their lives protecting our freedom.

 

"Everyone in the squad is aware of the importance of wearing a poppy."

[The Great Khali]

The poppy being used as a fashion item is highlighted on the guff that is on tele these days.

For example, X-factor at the weekend had Gary Barlow wearing a mahoosive glittery, shiny felly, while Tulisa had a ring on her finger with a poppy on it.

Cheapening the whole thing.

 

Someone wrote to the BBC earlier suggesting that the FA Buy a poppy for each fan that goes to the game to wear, so obviously, crowd shots and such would show the poppies, and the FA would be shown in good light.

Unfortunately though, as someone already mentioned on here, that won't do the FA because it looks as though it could be an excuse to have a pop at FIFA.

[west lothian loyal]

Guy on talk sport this morning raised a good point re football and war. The only time both the germans and british stopped fighting briefly in ww1 was for a kickabout on xmas day. Showing that football can unite nations.

 

Kinda puts into perspective the whole football and poppy love in lately.

 

 

H.M.F.C FOREVER

[ivanhoe]

Don't totally agree with the Fifa's decision but i fully understand it.

 

By the way the same FA that seem to be having a go at Fifa at every turn are the same FA that say we should trust them on Team GB.

 

Double Standards?

[Ray Winstone]

Now allowed to wear poppies on their black armbands.

[jimjamjolly]

Fifa allows England to wear poppy on black armbands

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/15666769.stm

[Shanks]

Now allowed to wear poppies on their black armbands.

 

Oh thank god!! David Cameron was beginning to panic, suppose he can get back to running the country now.

[Cade]

The teams are allowed to wear a poppy on their tracksuit tops and can be worn when the teams line up.

There is still a one minute silence.

There are armed forces personnel being honoured on the pitch at half time.

All that FIFA are saying no to is the poppy being worn on the playing strips for the entire game.

 

A lot of Little Englander moaning over this.

[Nicholas Brody]

The poppy being used as a fashion item is highlighted on the guff that is on tele these days.

For example, X-factor at the weekend had Gary Barlow wearing a mahoosive glittery, shiny felly, while Tulisa had a ring on her finger with a poppy on it.

Cheapening the whole thing.

 

Someone wrote to the BBC earlier suggesting that the FA Buy a poppy for each fan that goes to the game to wear, so obviously, crowd shots and such would show the poppies, and the FA would be shown in good light.

Unfortunately though, as someone already mentioned on here, that won't do the FA because it looks as though it could be an excuse to have a pop at FIFA.

 

A poppy should just be a simple design and not an accessory to look cool.

 

I wear a poppy but don't go on a moral crusade against anyone who doesn't. I'm glad they will be able to wear a poppy but feel this has just been about point scoring.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

This whole thing is so indignified. Football really is a shithouse of a sport/business

[wibble]

The war cemeteries in France will be ploughed over this morning after all the war dead spun rapidly in their graves after seeing that **** from the EDL and after hearing about X Factor folk accessorising with poppies.

 

The British Legion better start looking for a new symbol because they let the genie out of the bottle by letting people like Hearts popularise the image of the poppy on shitey nylon football strips and the like. A sacred image for nearly a century is now relegated to Ed Hardy status. Desperately sad.