Northern Ireland and sectarianism

[doctor jambo]

Watched Panorama last night and was interested to see that there have been even more segregation walls and fences built since Stormont than before it

Separate Catholic and Protestant bus stops

Separate games halls and sports facilities

Is the government really trying to integrate the two communities or, as it would appear, merely trying quite successfully to keep them apart?

[flecktimus]

I caught the end of the program.I just wish people using religion for there own agendas would GTF

[felix]

Good programme.

Wouldn't just blame "the government" tho' when clearly parents are raising their youngsters to respect bigotry and it's traditions.

 

As someone said, it will probably take two generations for it to disappear...taking the walls down and in some cases, demolishing the "estates" would also help imo.

 

Interesting to note that the new-built housing estates mentioned, seemed to be division free.

Think there's a lesson there.

[grumpyjambo]

Good programme.

Wouldn't just blame "the government" tho' when clearly parents are raising their youngsters to respect bigotry and it's traditions.

 

As someone said, it will probably take two generations for it to disappear...taking the walls down and in some cases, demolishing the "estates" would also help imo.

 

Interesting to note that the new-built housing estates mentioned, seemed to be division free.

Think there's a lesson there.

 

The schools have started to be integrated in some areas, something we should be doing in Scotland.

[felix]

The schools have started to be integrated in some areas, something we should be doing in Scotland.

 

Agreed but that doesn't seem to be what's happening in other areas, which repotedly have become even more divided since the Good Friday agreement .

[grumpyjambo]

Agreed but that doesn't seem to be what's happening in other areas, which repotedly have become even more divided since the Good Friday agreement .

 

It will come in time, at least the bombs and bullets (well most of them) have stopped.

[cosanostra]

Spent a week in Belfast a couple of years ago and other than the big murals on walls that could be seen from the train, i saw no sign of any sectarianism of any sort. The people were friendly and warm. The city itself was boring and everything closed too early but that's a different matter.

 

I know i was only there for a short time but my brother lived over there for 4 years and he had no problem ever at any point. Is the problem really as bad as many say it is?

[Deek]

I was taken round both East and North Belfast eight years ago. When we went round the Ardoyne I was half expecting the coffee jar bomb to come trundling under our car.

 

Strange feeling though when we went to the Shankhill I felt so much safer.

 

But the dividing line was the Crumlin Road. Many people had been murdered there over the years so you can understand the need to have seperate bus stops for both sides.

 

But you dont have to go far to leave the worst of the sectarianism behind you.

 

Bangor in County Down was a great place, with nice hotels, pubs etc. It also has a nice marina with yaughts and Palm trees. Most folk live in nice houses and dont care much for violence.

[doctor jambo]

Then is it a case that the new build estates and "better" more affluent areas are peaceful , yet the predominantly working class areas that are the bother?

Is this merely ned culture like we see ourselves with sink hole estates being cess pools of violence and crime?

Is this really sectarianism, or just poverty and its social manifestations, with religion merely a good excuse to cause trouble?

Seems like its that way to me

[Ivan Drago]

I think that's an excellent and interesting point.

 

From my limited experience and knowledge, i'd say that sectarianism in NI (and probably everywhere else to an extent) is a symptom of ignorance, lack of education and poverty related social problems.

 

I've met loads of Northern Irish people, mostly at university, who are bright and well educated and couldn't give a toss about religeon or being bigots. It's easy to blame the neds but in my experience, most of the bigots i've ever encountered have been complete and utter neds.

 

One of my best mates girlfriends is from Belfast and supports Celtic. I know that itself might not be newsworthy or entirely relevant but i think it highlights the ridiculousness of some bigots.

[felix]

Then is it a case that the new build estates and "better" more affluent areas are peaceful , yet the predominantly working class areas that are the bother?

Is this merely ned culture like we see ourselves with sink hole estates being cess pools of violence and crime?

Is this really sectarianism, or just poverty and its social manifestations, with religion merely a good excuse to cause trouble?

Seems like its that way to me

 

There's a lot of history to consider, but one point Panorama seemed to be implying is much of todays trouble is indeed ned culture.

 

There's no reason for young teenagers in NI today to hate the other side..they were born after the worst of the troubles and just after the Good Friday Agreement.

If however they're being brought up to hate the other side - and if the other side is clearly defined by fences, different bus stops and schools - the effects are obvious.

 

Many seem to be able to wipe the slate, move to new-build, non-sectarian estates, and get on with their lives.

[John Findlay]

As someone once said. The problem with Northern Ireland is that there are to many catholics, to many prostestants and not enough christians.

 

 

 

 

John