Barney Rubble Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 You know how we have been pretty kack at winning things with Romanovs millions and him at the helm , whats it going to be like without his millions and him at the helm :eek: :eek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johanes de Silentio Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 You know how we have been pretty kack at winning things with Romanovs millions and him at the helm , whats it going to be like without his millions and him at the helm :eek: :eek: About the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest C00l K1d Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 You know how we have been pretty kack at winning things with Romanovs millions and him at the helm , whats it going to be like without his millions and him at the helm :eek: :eek: If someone takes over, he's probably going to have more money than Romanov if he's willing to take on the debt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Better call Saul Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Won't be a problem as we will be managed better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld Reekin' Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 About the same. Exactly. For all of "Romanov's millions", he has not taken us forward footballing-wise - in any consistent, strategic, or thought-out way - since he gained control of the club. Yeah, we won the Scottish Cup, but we'd done the same thing (much more convincingly and with much greater style) 8 years earlier. The 05-06 season was effectively and prematurely sabotaged by Romanov's insane sacking of Burley and since then we've been treading water, at very best, in terms of our footballing standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2NaFish Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Exactly. For all of "Romanov's millions", he has not taken us forward footballing-wise - in any consistent, strategic, or thought-out way - since he gained control of the club. Yeah, we won the Scottish Cup, but we'd done the same thing (much more convincingly and with much greater style) 8 years earlier. The 05-06 season was effectively and prematurely sabotaged by Romanov's insane sacking of Burley and since then we've been treading water, at very best, in terms of our footballing standards. you say that but we, relatively speaking, spent a fair whack getting the 98 cup and that also was money we didn't have. from a long term view, the past 15 years have been very succesful in terms cups and league placings. money has bought us this success; money we don't and have never had but always assumed we'd get once we took that next step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld Reekin' Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 you say that but we, relatively speaking, spent a fair whack getting the 98 cup and that also was money we didn't have. from a long term view, the past 15 years have been very succesful in terms cups and league placings. money has bought us this success; money we don't and have never had but always assumed we'd get once we took that next step. And you might well be right in what you say, but the crazy deal struck between Pieman and SMG came after the '98 cup win, not before, and that's when the rot REALLY set in with Hearts, in recent history at least... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmaroon Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Let me see! I've been supporting Hearts for over 50 years. Began to become aware of the board when they sold Dave Mackay and Alex Young, and then Tommy White, Willie Wallace, sacked Tommy Walker, our greatest ever mananger etc., and then "led" us through the sickening 70's - then we had a reasonable spell wit Wallace, although even he wasn't too popular at the end and in came the Pieman and then Vlad. We've yet to see from the board the kind of soul destroying careless, feckless stuff we saw in the late 50's, 60's. 70's!!! If Vlad says, "Right! That's it! Live within your means and not a penny will you get, then we're back to some 40 years worth of what it was to be Hearts' supporter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2NaFish Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 And you might well be right in what you say, but the crazy deal struck between Pieman and SMG came after the '98 cup win, not before, and that's when the rot REALLY set in with Hearts, in recent history at least... post bosman wages did more damage to the club than 4million in unvonverted stock. it was self inflicted damaged sure enough, but Adam and Flogel and several others were on, once again relatively, very big money and all that before that day in May. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld Reekin' Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 post bosman wages did more damage to the club than 4million in unvonverted stock. it was self inflicted damaged sure enough, but Adam and Flogel and several others were on, once again relatively, very big money and all that before that day in May. Money well spent though... (Unlike so much squandered criminally on so many incompetent / inconsistent / couldnae-gie-a-flyin'-feck Romanov-era signings. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Rom?n Riquelme Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 We'll do alright. It's essentially like when you pay somebody to do a job for you that you could quite easily do yourself. We could still hold our own and be finishing 3rd without some of the high earners. We've got a very good youth team at the moment as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sydney Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 You know how we have been pretty kack at winning things with Romanovs millions and him at the helm , whats it going to be like without his millions and him at the helm :eek: :eek: I've been around for 40 years and we've won 2 cups.......I'm sure I'll cope in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBjambo Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Without Romanov backing us we'll drop like a stone... the quality of player we'll attract will drop and our only way forward will be with the youth... Unless a new sugar daddy rides over the horizon! Might be a good thing?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Bill Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 We all know that for every Bednar, Janny, Skacel, Brellier, Karipidis, there has been a Nade, Pinilla, Kingston, Makela, Beslija. What unites these players is that we've never really been able to afford any of them, whether we serve up an 05/06 or an 07/08. Yet when you look at Motherwell, who pay their players a few hundred quid a week, with a tight-knit squad, run by a decent, hard-working manager; then in the humdrum of the SPL, you can be not too far off the top, if you keep it simple, and do the simple things right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Someday Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 About the same. You obviously weren't around in the 70's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Someday Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 We all know that for every Bednar, Janny, Skacel, Brellier, Karipidis, there has been a Nade, Pinilla, Kingston, Makela, Beslija. What unites these players is that we've never really been able to afford any of them, whether we serve up an 05/06 or an 07/08. Yet when you look at Motherwell, who pay their players a few hundred quid a week, with a tight-knit squad, run by a decent, hard-working manager; then in the humdrum of the SPL, you can be not too far off the top, if you keep it simple, and do the simple things right. Based on the way that fans turned on Mercer and Robinson when their respective good times were coming to an end, I would say that any owner trying to use Motherwell as a model would be likely to be hounded out in the same disgusting way that Mercer was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAl Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Money well spent though... (Unlike so much squandered criminally on so many incompetent / inconsistent / couldnae-gie-a-flyin'-feck Romanov-era signings. ) That's right. We never had one bad signing before Romanov appeared. Mo Berthe, Petric, Jenkinson, Fitzroy Simpson etc were brilliant stars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sydney Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 That's right. We never had one bad signing before Romanov appeared. Mo Berthe, Petric, Jenkinson, Fitzroy Simpson etc were brilliant stars. Pettigrew, Marinello, Goss, Craig Nelson, Brian Hamilton, Fraser Wishart, Kevin James.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo Drifter Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Good riddance, I say. We'd still be the third biggest club in Scotland and perhaps in a post-Romanov era we could start building from the bottom up in terms of bringing through young talent, see some dignity return to the way the club affairs are handled, drop all this nonsense about moving from Tynecastle (at least for the short term) and win back some of the haters in the media and elsewhere who have let xenophobia and untruth taint their "reporting" of the Hearts story over the last six years. If Romanov does sell, now's the time for the fans to win back some control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Do The Dance Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 And you might well be right in what you say, but the crazy deal struck between Pieman and SMG came after the '98 cup win, not before, and that's when the rot REALLY set in with Hearts, in recent history at least... Correct. The incoming SMG money, and newer (bigger) contracts for the '98 players was when the money was spent, in the years after '98. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johanes de Silentio Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 You obviously weren't around in the 70's. I was - it was a very different kind of mismanagement to the type we have now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fort Vallance Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 We all know that for every Bednar, Janny, Skacel, Brellier, Karipidis, there has been a Nade, Pinilla, Kingston, Makela, Beslija. What unites these players is that we've never really been able to afford any of them, whether we serve up an 05/06 or an 07/08. Yet when you look at Motherwell, who pay their players a few hundred quid a week, with a tight-knit squad, run by a decent, hard-working manager; then in the humdrum of the SPL, you can be not too far off the top, if you keep it simple, and do the simple things right. Motherwell had to go through administration etc and their financial situation was forced on them, it wasn't by choice. I understand you're talking about their current structure but there have been half a dozen teams that have flattered to deceive for a few months, ourselves included. IMO they won't stay up there and only decent investment in a squad would keep any club up there in the long term. A couple of other posters have touched on previous boardroom regimes and there have been better and worse. At least we've got a couple of trophies to show for this particular debacle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld Reekin' Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 That's right. We never had one bad signing before Romanov appeared. Mo Berthe, Petric, Jenkinson, Fitzroy Simpson etc were brilliant stars. Thanks very much for putting words in my mouth and implying that I was stating something that I absolutely wasn't. Well done: keep it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leginten Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 We're not going to win the league any time soon, unless a new owner with bags of money willing to employ football professionals and leave the running of the team to them for more than a few months suddenly pitches up. And it's hard to imagine our being any worse in cup competitions than we are currently, even if we were Division 3 minnows. So more of the same, basically. Not a lot of trophies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 One thing concerns me. This simple, stark fact: Despite being clearly Scotland's third biggest club, Hearts have never finished in the top three since 1992 (and quite possibly then too) without spending beyond our means. That's hardly true of many other clubs to have finished 3rd over that period. But it is true of us. It suggests that, if we ever do live within our means, our league position is bound to fall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denny Crane Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 One thing concerns me. This simple, stark fact: Despite being clearly Scotland's third biggest club, Hearts have never finished in the top three since 1992 (and quite possibly then too) without spending beyond our means. That's hardly true of many other clubs to have finished 3rd over that period. But it is true of us. It suggests that, if we ever do live within our means, our league position is bound to fall. Season 91/92 saw fees paid out for (figures are off the top of my head so stand corrected if wrong): Ian Baird (?350k), Graeme Hogg (?250k), Ian Ferguson (?100k) and John Millar (?50k). Throw in as well, the wages of those guys and the free transfers (Steve Penney, Gary Williams and John Sharples). Summer of 1992: Mercer announces Hearts are ?2m in debt and that Dave McPherson (an asset who can command a big fee) needs to be sold. The spending prior to 91/92 may or may not have helped the financial situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Season 91/92 saw fees paid out for (figures are off the top of my head so stand corrected if wrong): Ian Baird (?350k), Graeme Hogg (?250k), Ian Ferguson (?100k) and John Millar (?50k). Throw in as well, the wages of those guys and the free transfers (Steve Penney, Gary Williams and John Sharples). Summer of 1992: Mercer announces Hearts are ?2m in debt and that Dave McPherson (an asset who can command a big fee) needs to be sold. The spending prior to 91/92 may or may not have helped the financial situation. Thanks. So we've got to go back to 1990 then? Any advances on that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbo27_22 Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Someone with a fraction of Romanov's supposed money could do a far better job. An owner should sign the cheques and let the manager do the job. Sack him if he's not doing the job well enough. Personally can't wait to get back to that set up. Romanov just can help himself. Could have been a legend, will leave the club a what could have been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denny Crane Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Thanks. So we've got to go back to 1990 then? Any advances on that? (Again, figures of the top of my head) 89/90: Husref Musemic ?200k, Nicky Walker ?100k, Davie Kirkwood (between ?25-75k), Dave McCreery (free). But Mercer felt flush enough to lash out ?750k on Derek Ferguson for the following season and spend some dosh regarding the abortive takeover of a certain club... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudolf's Mate Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Someone with a fraction of Romanov's supposed money could do a far better job. An owner should sign the cheques and let the manager do the job. Sack him if he's not doing the job well enough. Personally can't wait to get back to that set up. Romanov just can help himself. Could have been a legend, will leave the club a what could have been. Unfortunately you are correct on every level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyMcI Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 You know how we have been pretty kack at winning things with Romanovs millions and him at the helm , whats it going to be like without his millions and him at the helm :eek: :eek: This is a really good point people overlook - We can become a financially well run organisation, living within our means. This will generally lead to alot worse players on the pitch. Effectively we can become Hibs. We could also go the youth route but after 2 weeks all the youngsters will get booed on matchdays and then savaged on here when we lose to Motherwell, Killie, Dundee United etc as no matter what some will still believe its a disgrace if we don't beat everyone except the OF (and they will even still moan about that) It should be a fun when some realise that if they think there is plenty to moan about just now and that the current squad isn't good enough.............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott herbertson Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 (Again, figures of the top of my head) 89/90: Husref Musemic ?200k, Nicky Walker ?100k, Davie Kirkwood (between ?25-75k), Dave McCreery (free). But Mercer felt flush enough to lash out ?750k on Derek Ferguson for the following season and spend some dosh regarding the abortive takeover of a certain club... Pettigrew and Addison in the early 80s nearly had us chucked out of the league as Mercer couldn't (or wouldn't) pay the instalments, so this goes back to 1980/1. I remember the shame of it at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 One thing concerns me. This simple, stark fact: Despite being clearly Scotland's third biggest club, Hearts have never finished in the top three since 1992 (and quite possibly then too) without spending beyond our means. That's hardly true of many other clubs to have finished 3rd over that period. But it is true of us. It suggests that, if we ever do live within our means, our league position is bound to fall. No, there has been a series of teams spending beyond their means which have taken them up the leagues in that period. Ourselves, Motherwell, Hibs, Dundee United, Killie etc and most obviously Livingston. There was 'success' for all of them. Almost all of them have now realised that there is nothing to accumulate following speculation. There is a new financial reality at all the clubs in the league seemingly other than Hearts. The strategy at Hearts should go back to that Wallace Mercer wrote down in Anatomy of a Football Club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pettigrewsstylist Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Let me see! I've been supporting Hearts for over 50 years. Began to become aware of the board when they sold Dave Mackay and Alex Young, and then Tommy White, Willie Wallace, sacked Tommy Walker, our greatest ever mananger etc., and then "led" us through the sickening 70's - then we had a reasonable spell wit Wallace, although even he wasn't too popular at the end and in came the Pieman and then Vlad. We've yet to see from the board the kind of soul destroying careless, feckless stuff we saw in the late 50's, 60's. 70's!!! If Vlad says, "Right! That's it! Live within your means and not a penny will you get, then we're back to some 40 years worth of what it was to be Hearts' supporter Well put,, my take on it would be ive within your means and i would expext mid table with 3 rd plae every 3 rd yr or so,.......but if live within your means includes paying the debt back by every player sae for next 5 yrs and only academy promotions as fresh blood i think we could leave the top flight for several years IMHO this is what vlad will do , he wil recoup as much as poss from player sales to lessen debt and wont sign a soul in this time,,,, this should at least make us a more viable investment ,,,,i think Tynie is safe for now in terms of asset stripping Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Bill Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Motherwell had to go through administration etc and their financial situation was forced on them, it wasn't by choice. I understand you're talking about their current structure but there have been half a dozen teams that have flattered to deceive for a few months, ourselves included. IMO they won't stay up there and only decent investment in a squad would keep any club up there in the long term. A couple of other posters have touched on previous boardroom regimes and there have been better and worse. At least we've got a couple of trophies to show for this particular debacle. I appreciate that Motherwell have had their financial problems and I'm not hailing that particular club as some beacon of light or suchlike. But when we do scale back, we need not necessarily be any worse off than we are now, if we bring in hungry, hard-working players, run by a manager who is allowed time to do his job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbee647 Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 The last time we lived within our means would be during the 1970s in fact we didnt pay a transfer fee between April 1969 -?10k for Ernie Winchester and February 1973 ,?17k for Kenny Aird , this fiscal policy culminated in relegation in 1977, for a club of the stature of Hearts, a level of funding must be made available or we just become like everyone else, where we could fluctuate anywhere between 3rd place and relegation, the knock on being crowds and season ticket sales will rise and fall more dramatically than they do now, in the 70s we would have 35 000 people for old firm and derby games but 6000 for games against the likes of St Johnstone and St Mirren etc. We are Hearts Fc, but we are not big enough that our name and reputation wins us results on it's own, ie the Old Firm, we must invest more in player purchases and youth investment than our rivals just to maintain some kind of status quo. Unfortunately history tells us Hearts fans are just as fickle as every other teams fans maybe even more so, our average crowds between 1965 and 1970 dropped from 22 000 to 10500, and I'll wager a few on here shouting for us to cut back and live within our means will be some of the first to say " am no goin back " when performances and player standards drop, producing inconsistent results and bad performances on the pitch. The truth is we have only achieved any kind of moderate success since promotion in 1983 because the club has spent out with our means to achieve this, there is a generation of fans who have known nothing else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbee647 Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 I understand what your saying but I don't think the comparison to the 70's is a particularly fair one. The Bosnman ruling has changed football forever there is no requirement to spend transfer fees. Living beyond our means hasn't transferred into any form of sustained success. If we don't start we'll simply seize to exist. Also other clubs have realised that they can't live beyond our means so it will be a level playing field. The key will be managing the club correctly. It definitely won't be easy though. I agree with you 100% , I'm just concerned that a support more used to relative success ie top 5 finishes for the last 28 years won't know how to handle the ups and downs related to a more frugal spending policy. Its all very well saying we must live within our means but the reality is a lot of the support, who may not have been around in the late 60s & 1970s ( the wilderness years) will not be able to handle us just being another club, getting beat by Hibs more regularly than we have been used to ( they are more financially secure, only a fool would disagree) and I fear just like in the 1970s our support will drop alarmingly, as we are seeing at Pittodrie and Easter Road at present. I can still recall gates of 3000 regularly in the first division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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