We're up for sale -- official

[Thunderstruck]

What if he has found a partner to invest, which equals the club isn't going to be sold. Rather than producing the sort of OP topic headline you did would it not have made more sense if you had said club might be sold rather than club is being sold, given their are two options and both options don't achieve the same end result.

 

Or why didn't you call the thread title "We're looking for a further investment source" if you only wanted to pick one of the two options.

 

Reading the whole statement, it seems that there must have been a more positive response from Planning or the Council re either new stand or new stadium. I can only imagine that either option will proceed if some form of external investment comes along, does that meaning selling a share of the club? Who knows - certainly not the Media who, as you say, will opt for any negative connotation.

[LeylandJambo]

David Murray.........

 

I thought about him first then very quickly dismissed it

[CJGJ]

What if he has found a partner to invest, which equals the club isn't going to be sold. Rather than producing the sort of OP topic headline you did would it not have made more sense if you had said club might be sold rather than club is being sold, given their are two options and both options don't achieve the same end result.

 

Or why didn't you call the thread title "We're looking for a further investment source" if you only wanted to pick one of the two options.

Because it clearly states selling the club is an option which you seem to want to ignore for some reason.

 

However in view of your opinion I will request the thread is re-named

 

'We're up for part sale, partnership or just a full sale -- official.'

 

Whichever way this is the clearest indication of where the club stands in Vlad's eyes and that one of the options is a full sale.

[Martin_T]

It all depends on the terms of sale. With current debt level the club is un-sellable. If Hearts staffing costs were moved into line with our direct competitors, Motherwell, Dundee United, Hibs, Aberdeen etc, then there is potential for the business to be modestly profitable.

[Coco]

It all depends on the terms of sale. With current debt level the club is un-sellable. If Hearts staffing costs were moved into line with our direct competitors, Motherwell, Dundee United, Hibs, Aberdeen etc, then there is potential for the business to be modestly profitable.

 

The papers today suggested that St Mirren's wage bill is ?1m.

 

If that is even half right I suspect they have better management than the Hearts Board and indeed are getting better value for money.

[Gdog]

Interesting to see the reaction this news. Been rumoured for a while but at finally the admission has came. I wonder if a consortium could come together. Romanov may well be willing to cut his losses especially as if it seems he is keeping us a float out of his own pocket. Let's hope there is someone with a hefty wedge and deep pockets who fancies giving our club a lifeline.

 

As a side note, I don't think the council can be blameless here, the lack of support over a new stand has really peeved VR off and set us back and VRs plans. A new stand bringing with it increased matchday revenue and commercial profits would make it far more attractive to VR and any buyer as football to be a sport worth investing (excluding Man City/Chelsea model) is far more about the other revenue streams. The council have let us down big time.

[portobellojambo1]

You know what title the media will choose tomorrow PJ

 

 

 

 

.

 

Absolutely.

 

And despite me being aware there were two options which meant I was questioning the title of the thread which states "we're bring sold" (there again maybe we're not given there is another option) it appears I might be ignoring this other option.

 

So I give in and accept that what he has said is a clear indication we are being sold, as there is no other option he is considering.

[Coco]

Interesting to see the reaction this news. Been rumoured for a while but at finally the admission has came. I wonder if a consortium could come together. Romanov may well be willing to cut his losses especially as if it seems he is keeping us a float out of his own pocket. Let's hope there is someone with a hefty wedge and deep pockets who fancies giving our club a lifeline.

 

As a side note, I don't think the council can be blameless here, the lack of support over a new stand has really peeved VR off and set us back and VRs plans. A new stand bringing with it increased matchday revenue and commercial profits would make it far more attractive to VR and any buyer as football to be a sport worth investing (excluding Man City/Chelsea model) is far more about the other revenue streams. The council have let us down big time.

 

The Council have a responsibility to Council Tax Payers and not to companies catering to private hobbies. The recent idea that they should build a stadium for the club was farcical.

 

As for the perceived lack of support for the previous property development plan at Tynecastle - the Council agreed to sell their land to UBIG and there has been little informed commentary that they were the factor preventing the hotel/shop/offices/houses being built. It is not their fault that UBIG/Hearts don't have enough money to fund their grandiose dreams.

[Jay B-8)]

its prolly for the best as Vlad is mental

[i wish jj was my dad]

I have mixed feelings about this.

 

There are some reassuring messages in the statement. I don't think there will be any fire sale and we won't bend over and let the Uglies take our better players for buttons. Contracts won't be renewed and guys like Balogh, Kyle, Obua etc will be released. The squad will be trimmed and the guys who come in will be from the academy or their salaries will be more in line with average SPL salaries. I'm absolutely fine with that.

 

Realistically, I guess that the 'dream' is over and any hope of achieving success like 2006 has gone - just at the time when the Uglies are at their most vulnerable. If Mr Romanov really wanted success this would be the time to go for it.

 

While he has chucked an awful lot of money at Hearts and brought Fyssas, Rudi etc a lot of it has been wasted on chancers like Nade and Kingston and others that should never been near a Hearts strip. I don't believe these guys were sourced by the head coach so in that sense Mr Romanov only has himself to blame for that.

 

For me, I can only hope that Mr Romanov is as good as his word and continues to support Hearts albeit at a reduced scale and let us operate at our true level. That should still allow us to sit at the top end of the table and compete for cups - pretty much the way it was for the 20 years before Mr Romanov arrived. Perhaps the question that needs answered is why bin JJ and bring in PS if he wanted to move to a more sustainable model?

 

Sorry if this is a bit of ramble but in a lot of ways the statement got me thinking and if I'm honest I'm more hopeful today than I have been for a while.

[Francis Albert]

The Council have a responsibility to Council Tax Payers and not to companies catering to private hobbies. The recent idea that they should build a stadium for the club was farcical.

As for the perceived lack of support for the previous property development plan at Tynecastle - the Council agreed to sell their land to UBIG and there has been little informed commentary that they were the factor preventing the hotel/shop/offices/houses being built. It is not their fault that UBIG/Hearts don't have enough money to fund their grandiose dreams.

 

 

Agreed but the Council agreed to a joint study the terms of reference of which apparently allowed it to be recommended. Why waste people's time like that?

[Coco]

Agreed but the Council agreed to a joint study the terms of reference of which apparently allowed it to be recommended. Why waste people's time like that?

 

Completely agree. There is something rotten at the Council when time and money is wasted in that manner.

[Debut 4]

What was dramatic about the OP? The poster was just making a point, making people aware of the statement if they hadn`t heard...

 

Maybe you should calm doon....

[Deodato]

Good, hopefully a multi billionaire Sheikh or somebody like Abramovich with a liking for Gorgie will step in.

 

It would be a plus if they hate paedos as well and insist on the manager playing 2 proper strikers.

 

This constructive and pragmatic perspective on the complex situation facing the future of Heart of Midlothian Football Club allows me to relax and stay calm and composed during this period of transition, no matter how perennial the period feels.

 

Thank you Toxteth, rock on my brother.

 

Deodato

[Seymour M Hersh]

The smarter bears saw this coming after our recent troubles.

 

Rangers fans knew? And surely there is no such thing as a smart bear.

[Guest]

Rangers fans knew? And surely there is no such thing as a smart bear.

[Punks No Deid]

I have mixed feelings about this.

 

There are some reassuring messages in the statement. I don't think there will be any fire sale and we won't bend over and let the Uglies take our better players for buttons. Contracts won't be renewed and guys like Balogh, Kyle, Obua etc will be released. The squad will be trimmed and the guys who come in will be from the academy or their salaries will be more in line with average SPL salaries. I'm absolutely fine with that.

 

Realistically, I guess that the 'dream' is over and any hope of achieving success like 2006 has gone - just at the time when the Uglies are at their most vulnerable. If Mr Romanov really wanted success this would be the time to go for it.

 

While he has chucked an awful lot of money at Hearts and brought Fyssas, Rudi etc a lot of it has been wasted on chancers like Nade and Kingston and others that should never been near a Hearts strip. I don't believe these guys were sourced by the head coach so in that sense Mr Romanov only has himself to blame for that.

 

For me, I can only hope that Mr Romanov is as good as his word and continues to support Hearts albeit at a reduced scale and let us operate at our true level. That should still allow us to sit at the top end of the table and compete for cups - pretty much the way it was for the 20 years before Mr Romanov arrived. Perhaps the question that needs answered is why bin JJ and bring in PS if he wanted to move to a more sustainable model?

 

Sorry if this is a bit of ramble but in a lot of ways the statement got me thinking and if I'm honest I'm more hopeful today than I have been for a while.

I agree glass half full rather than half empty we'll just have to wait n see tho eh?

interesting times ahead... but theres no change there, every morning u wake up n wonder what's

next on the agenda..always eventful n never boring, thats for sure

[Drylaw Hearts]

Whereas the really smart bears were aware that one day we would get either a new owner or additional income from another source, and that discussions have been going on for a long, long time in relation to both. And the really, really smart bears would have read that statement, and having read it would have correctly drawn the conclusion that two potential options don't equal we're going to be sold.

 

I'm a really smart bear then.

 

And the really really really smart bears realise that the press spouting pash like they have done this week, will not help one bit.

 

au contraire.....

 

This may just have been the straw that broke the camels back.

 

[Martin_T]

I am cautiously optimistic if we are indeed up for sale. The 2005/6 apart, the whole Romanov era has quite simply been, a collosal waste of money. Challenging for 3rd/4th and the occasional game in Europe, isn't that what Motherwell have done on a fraction of our budget over the same period?

[Independence]

An owner willing to sell! Shock, horror stop the front page!

Just about every owner would sell if they received a good deal.

Newcastle United have been up for sale for about 2 years. Evertons owner repeatedly reminds everyone that they are for sale.

The real news here is that he will continue to back Hearts financially. He will cut back financially (about time) and maybe we will get players who want to play for the jersey.

[iainmac]

A couple of years ago, I attended a meeting where a banker suggested - and he was deadly serious - that all we had to do to buy out VR was to get 3,000 Jambos to put in ?8K each and that would be enough to purchase the footballing side of the business. I suppose 8,000 Jambos putting ?3K in would have the same effect.

 

The question is - who's up for it?

[JAYEL]

A couple of years ago, I attended a meeting where a banker suggested - and he was deadly serious - that all we had to do to buy out VR was to get 3,000 Jambos to put in ?8K each and that would be enough to purchase the footballing side of the business. I suppose 8,000 Jambos putting ?3K in would have the same effect.

 

The question is - who's up for it?

 

 

And the running costs ??? + tax / vat / insurance

 

 

.

[mintmyster]

I am cautiously optimistic if we are indeed up for sale. The 2005/6 apart, the whole Romanov era has quite simply been, a collosal waste of money. Challenging for 3rd/4th and the occasional game in Europe, isn't that what Motherwell have done on a fraction of our budget over the same period?

 

This is something that really puts the last 6 years into perspective. Our achievements in this time have not been that impressive and not much more than what Motherwell (old firm challenge) and Dundee Utd (cup win) for example have achieved with far less investment. How different it may have been if Romanov had taken more of a back seat and let the managers do what managers should be doing.

[Mister Dee]

Surely the only stumbling block is Vlads valuation.

He must cut his losses.

 

If he wrote of the debt & asked for 10-15M, I wonder if he'd flush out any investors.

[Seymour M Hersh]

Surely the only stumbling block is Vlads valuation.

He must cut his losses.

 

If he wrote of the debt & asked for 10-15M, I wonder if he'd flush out any investors.

 

That and the total lack of a potential purchaser.

[Drylaw Hearts]

That and the total lack of a potential purchaser.

 

I didn't realise you knew everyone in the world SMH.

[edin1874]

I didn't realise you knew everyone in the world SMH.

 

If you think there is any person in the World who wants to put tens of millions of ? into a loss making Scottish football team you need to arrange a visit to the local looney hospital. LOL !!

[Drylaw Hearts]

If you think there is any person in the World who wants to put tens of millions of ? into a loss making Scottish football team you need to arrange a visit to the local looney hospital. LOL !!

 

LOL.

[edin1874]

LOL.

 

Ok well apart from the LOL I think the point was maybe a decent one ?!

 

People are not bothered in investing anywhere just now. A Scottish football team comes just about the bottom of the pile.

[Seymour M Hersh]

I didn't realise you knew everyone in the world SMH.

 

 

This is where your total hatred of all things VR fall's flat on it's face. When VR bought the club who else was genuinely in to buy us? i know you kept your distance from SOH but you must remember. Considering a. our financial situation is worse b. there's a global recession and c. Scottish football is at it's most unattractive for decades I really don't have to know everyone to be pretty confident we'll have no takers.

[Drylaw Hearts]

Ok well apart from the LOL I think the point was maybe a decent one ?!

 

People are not bothered in investing anywhere just now. A Scottish football team comes just about the bottom of the pile.

 

It's just such a general statement to say that nobody wants to invest or there are no buyers.

 

How do you actually now that is actually the case ?

[kennyblack'sshot]

This is something that really puts the last 6 years into perspective. Our achievements in this time have not been that impressive and not much more than what Motherwell (old firm challenge) and Dundee Utd (cup win) for example have achieved with far less investment. How different it may have been if Romanov had taken more of a back seat and let the managers do what managers should be doing.

 

One second place, two third places and one cup win puts us firmly ahead of the two clubs you mentioned, and anyone else outside the OF, over the last 6 years. The other seasons in between kind of followed the Hearts pattern of a good season followed by a bad season, and we did have one unusually bad season thrown in for good measure (which we recovered nicely from to finish third the next season).

[Drylaw Hearts]

This is where your total hatred of all things VR fall's flat on it's face. When VR bought the club who else was genuinely in to buy us? i know you kept your distance from SOH but you must remember. Considering a. our financial situation is worse b. there's a global recession and c. Scottish football is at it's most unattractive for decades I really don't have to know everyone to be pretty confident we'll have no takers.

 

Eh......I didn't keep my distance from SOH.

 

And as I've said before....

 

There was a buyer the last time (VR) so there is a possibility there will be a buyer(s) this time also.

[Coco]

It's just such a general statement to say that nobody wants to invest or there are no buyers.

 

How do you actually now that is actually the case ?

 

The issue is the price that UBIG will accept in terms of losses on their 'investment'.

 

It is possible to run a break even football club in the SPL - a team like St Johnstone has been the model in that regard. Budget on halfway up the SPL and no Cup runs - and keep the wages well within that level. The turnover of the club is not very hard to predict. Selling players could potentially finance maintenance to the ground/keeping Rudi Skacel.

 

So the issue would be to raise enough money to outbid a property developer for Tynecastle. Given the property crash that is again within the realms of possibility.

[edin1874]

It's just such a general statement to say that nobody wants to invest or there are no buyers.

 

How do you actually now that is actually the case ?

 

If you fancy we can make a wager. However I don't really like taking money of strangers !! LOL !!!

 

Come on - we all want there to be some mega rich ***** who is sitting there watching ESPN who just happens to fancy buying HMRC - however we all know it just is not going to happen.

 

However much I hate the Huns they couldn't even get a buyer after 2 years on the market - and as far as a 'brand' is concerned they are more than we are. And in the end they were sold for one pound to some seriously dodgy weedgie ***** who appears (IMO) to have not even two brass farthings to rub together.

[kennyblack'sshot]

The Council have a responsibility to Council Tax Payers and not to companies catering to private hobbies. The recent idea that they should build a stadium for the club was farcical.

 

As for the perceived lack of support for the previous property development plan at Tynecastle - the Council agreed to sell their land to UBIG and there has been little informed commentary that they were the factor preventing the hotel/shop/offices/houses being built. It is not their fault that UBIG/Hearts don't have enough money to fund their grandiose dreams.

 

Scotland needs more and better stadiums and we need the governments and councils to put money into it. We need a more mature attitude to this in this country. In Australia they made a conscious effort to get better at sport - and succeeded. In Scotland we're all just getting fatter.

 

Hearts are looking for a land swap not a handout. Arguably, given that the land the council would get - around Tynecastle - would be much more valuable over the long term than whatever land they find for a Hearts/community stadium, it's the taxpayers who stand to benefit.

 

There's also the fact that Edinburgh rugby also need a stadium.

[The Old Tolbooth]

Ok well apart from the LOL I think the point was maybe a decent one ?!

 

People are not bothered in investing anywhere just now. A Scottish football team comes just about the bottom of the pile.

 

 

What makes you think that a new owner would come in and run the club in such a car crash of a way that Romanov has done over the last 5-6 years though? It's possible, just possible, that any new owners would come in and start with a clean slate and run the club within it's means, heaven forbid we ever get to that stage.

[PTBCAL]

If you fancy we can make a wager. However I don't really like taking money of strangers !! LOL !!!

 

Come on - we all want there to be some mega rich ***** who is sitting there watching ESPN who just happens to fancy buying HMRC - however we all know it just is not going to happen.

 

However much I hate the Huns they couldn't even get a buyer after 2 years on the market - and as far as a 'brand' is concerned they are more than we are. And in the end they were sold for one pound to some seriously dodgy weedgie ***** who appears (IMO) to have not even two brass farthings to rub together.

 

There was a group individuals very interested 6 months ago - who is to say they are no longer interested.

[Charlie-Brown]

The issue is the price that UBIG will accept in terms of losses on their 'investment'.

 

It is possible to run a break even football club in the SPL - a team like St Johnstone has been the model in that regard. Budget on halfway up the SPL and no Cup runs - and keep the wages well within that level. The turnover of the club is not very hard to predict. Selling players could potentially finance maintenance to the ground/keeping Rudi Skacel.

 

So the issue would be to raise enough money to outbid a property developer for Tynecastle. Given the property crash that is again within the realms of possibility.

 

Why would UBIG sell Tynecastle at the bottom of the property market when they could exercise the floating charge, claim ownership of tynecastle in lieu of a proportion of debt and charge Hearts a rental for Tynecastle on an ongoing basis or until a new stadium is built. Unless you expect Edinburgh property prices to depress even further then collecting a few years or decade rental then selling would see them get back far more money than selling now.

 

Extremely optimistic to think that Skacel will be given a new deal - if he survives to the end of the season the he/we will be very lucky but I expect Robinson or Holt will be earmarked to take his place in the team.

[edin1874]

What makes you think that a new owner would come in and run the club in such a car crash of a way that Romanov has done over the last 5-6 years though? It's possible, just possible, that any new owners would come in and start with a clean slate and run the club within it's means, heaven forbid we ever get to that stage.

 

The problem I see is any clean slate is up to Vlad to decide. And if he doesn't fancy giving away tens of millions - then anyone who wants to start HMFC off with a clean slate - needs to have a good ?30 million spare change in their back pocket.

 

These people just do not exist. If they did - we would know by now.

[edin1874]

There was a group individuals very interested 6 months ago - who is to say they are no longer interested.

 

Do they have 30 million sitting there waiting to be spent ?

 

That is the important thing. I could say I am interested in buying Hearts - however without the ??? it means nothing.

[Martin_T]

One second place, two third places and one cup win puts us firmly ahead of the two clubs you mentioned, and anyone else outside the OF, over the last 6 years. The other seasons in between kind of followed the Hearts pattern of a good season followed by a bad season, and we did have one unusually bad season thrown in for good measure (which we recovered nicely from to finish third the next season).

 

Since 2006/7

 

Dundee United have had one Scottish cup win, a league cup final they lost on penalties and have regularly finished in the top 5. Their wage bill is around 30% if our own.

 

Motherwell have played in Europe 3 times, played in a Scottish Cup final and regularly finished in the top 5. Their wage bill is 25% of our own.

 

Hibs have won the Scottish league cup, finished top 5 three times and finished their stadium. Wage bill is around 40 to 50% our own.

 

Aberdeen have reached the last 32 of the Uefa Cup and finished 3rd in the league once.

 

2005/6 was great for Hearts with the 2nd place and Scottish cup, but since then given our wage bill relative to our competitors, we have massively, massively under-achieved. United and Motherwell have regularly out-performed and beaten a Hearts team easily spending twice what they are on our playing staff. The Romanov era, 2005/6 apart has been a collosal waste of money and sadly, a real wasted opportunity.

[Seymour M Hersh]

Eh......I didn't keep my distance from SOH.

 

And as I've said before....

 

There was a buyer the last time (VR) so there is a possibility there will be a buyer(s) this time also.

 

It was my understanding that you did and thought the whole thing a waste. Clearly I'll need to check with my source.

[JAYEL]

The issue is the price that UBIG will accept in terms of losses on their 'investment'.

 

It is possible to run a break even football club in the SPL - a team like St Johnstone has been the model in that regard. Budget on halfway up the SPL and no Cup runs - and keep the wages well within that level. The turnover of the club is not very hard to predict. Selling players could potentially finance maintenance to the ground/keeping Rudi Skacel.

 

So the issue would be to raise enough money to outbid a property developer for Tynecastle. Given the property crash that is again within the realms of possibility.

 

 

Surely they cant build houses in a danger zone.

 

 

 

 

.

[brownkg]

It's just such a general statement to say that nobody wants to invest or there are no buyers.

 

How do you actually now that is actually the case ?

 

 

are you contending that you KNOW the converse is the case? Really?

[Coco]

Why would UBIG sell Tynecastle at the bottom of the property market when they could exercise the floating charge, claim ownership of tynecastle in lieu of a proportion of debt and charge Hearts a rental for Tynecastle on an ongoing basis or until a new stadium is built. Unless you expect Edinburgh property prices to depress even further then collecting a few years or decade rental then selling would see them get back far more money than selling now.

 

Extremely optimistic to think that Skacel will be given a new deal - if he survives to the end of the season the he/we will be very lucky but I expect Robinson or Holt will be earmarked to take his place in the team.

 

You seem desperate to see Hearts sell Tynecastle. A positive glee that UBIG could take the ground from the club.

 

Perhaps there is funding pressure on UBIG.

 

It will be interesting to see whether the St Andrew Square building goes back on the market too ...

[Drylaw Hearts]

It was my understanding that you did and thought the whole thing a waste. Clearly I'll need to check with my source.

 

You don't need to check with your source - your source is hardly going to know better than me if I thought it was a waste of time.

[david mcgee]

What makes you think that a new owner would come in and run the club in such a car crash of a way that Romanov has done over the last 5-6 years though? It's possible, just possible, that any new owners would come in and start with a clean slate and run the club within it's means, heaven forbid we ever get to that stage.

Does anyone else find it hilarious that Vlad actually thinks he could find a "partner"?

 

Despite us all being Hearts daft, are any of us daft enough to fancy a partnership with Vlad?

 

Would anyone willing to invest cash be happy to share the limelight with Mr Romanov?

 

Could you imagine the meetings thrashing out whos turn it was to pick the team?

 

Is there anyone out there he hasnt fallen out with?

[Drylaw Hearts]

are you contending that you KNOW the converse is the case? Really?

 

I don't know if there is potential investors out there.

 

I also don't know if there isn't.

[kennyblack'sshot]

Since 2006/7

 

Dundee United have had one Scottish cup win, a league cup final they lost on penalties and have regularly finished in the top 5. Their wage bill is around 30% if our own.

 

Motherwell have played in Europe 3 times, played in a Scottish Cup final and regularly finished in the top 5. Their wage bill is 25% of our own.

 

Hibs have won the Scottish league cup, finished top 5 three times and finished their stadium. Wage bill is around 40 to 50% our own.

 

Aberdeen have reached the last 32 of the Uefa Cup and finished 3rd in the league once.

 

2005/6 was great for Hearts with the 2nd place and Scottish cup, but since then given our wage bill relative to our competitors, we have massively, massively under-achieved. United and Motherwell have regularly out-performed and beaten a Hearts team easily spending twice what they are on our playing staff. The Romanov era, 2005/6 apart has been a collosal waste of money and sadly, a real wasted opportunity.

 

The poster said we'd done as well as Motherwell and Dundee Utd. We haven't - we've done better. We spend the most outside of the OF, therefore our minimum target is that we should do better than the rest more often than any of the other teams - and we kept that record going under Romanov, with a cup thrown in.

 

Talk of top five finishes is nonsense. We have one 2nd and two 3rds in 6 years. That's much better than any other non-OF teams. You mentioned Hibs - they have the 4th highest wage bill but not consistently finished 4th or higher.

 

There's also no point saying because we spend x amount of money we should finish x points above our rivals or win x more cups. By your logic the OF should finish far further ahead of the other teams and score many more goals against them than they actually do. Likewise, Man City should have won the league and European Cup by now.

 

Agree with the bit in bold though 100%.