Liverpool and the Champions League

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

What is it with Liverpool and the Champions League?

 

They have won the Champions League an incredible 5 times and finished runners up twice.

 

Why do they seem to excel in Europe but in England they are pretty average?

 

Is it Benitez? He has an outstanding record in the Champions League and in his few years as manager of Liverpool they have reached the final twice, winning it once in arguably the greatest ever final. He has also won the UEFA Cup with Valencia.

 

This season they have broke their record win with an 8-0 victory against Besiktas and look on course for a semi final place after a 1-1 away draw at Arsenal.

 

Does Rafas rotation policy work better in Europe? Are his tactics suited to European competition?

 

I personally think they will go on to win it again this year, their belief and confidence when playing in Europe is incredible.

[kearney19]

What is it with Liverpool and the Champions League?

 

They have won the Champions League an incredible 5 times and finished runners up twice.

 

Why do they seem to excel in Europe but in England they are pretty average?

 

Is it Benitez? He has an outstanding record in the Champions League and in his few years as manager of Liverpool they have reached the final twice, winning it once in arguably the greatest ever final. He has also won the UEFA Cup with Valencia.

 

This season they have broke their record win with an 8-0 victory against Besiktas and look on course for a semi final place after a 1-1 away draw at Arsenal.

 

Does Rafas rotation policy work better in Europe? Are his tactics suited to European competition?

 

I personally think they will go on to win it again this year, their belief and confidence when playing in Europe is incredible.

 

I was in the pub with a couple of Liverpool fans and they think they wont go through on Tuesday.

They play hoof football and are not good to watch.

 

They are very lucky in the CL, look at the shoot out V Milan, Reina off his line every time but did well to win it 3-0 down half time.

 

Would be ironic if Arsenal a team with no Champion League success beats a team with the only excuse of winning the championsleague 5 times or something.

 

They are so lucky in the Championsleague, but i guess its the only thing they will ever concentrate on.

[Ivan Drago]

as soon as they drew Arsenal i thought they would go through, and still do. Benitez just knows how to play in 2 legged matches, and Wenger doesnt imo.

[siegementality]

What is it with Liverpool and the Champions League?

 

They have won the Champions League an incredible 5 times and finished runners up twice.

 

Why do they seem to excel in Europe but in England they are pretty average?

 

Is it Benitez? He has an outstanding record in the Champions League and in his few years as manager of Liverpool they have reached the final twice, winning it once in arguably the greatest ever final. He has also won the UEFA Cup with Valencia.

 

This season they have broke their record win with an 8-0 victory against Besiktas and look on course for a semi final place after a 1-1 away draw at Arsenal.

 

Does Rafas rotation policy work better in Europe? Are his tactics suited to European competition?

 

I personally think they will go on to win it again this year, their belief and confidence when playing in Europe is incredible.

 

They've won the CL once and the European Cup four times. They were that sheeite in England that you could only qualify for the European Cup as league champions (no 2nd, 3rd and 4th place crap!) or holders.

 

Liverpool haven't won the league for 17 years yet they've still won it more times than Man U.

 

I think Liverpool will win the league in the next few years.

 

I'm an Arsenal man by the way.

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

I was in the pub with a couple of Liverpool fans and they think they wont go through on Tuesday.

They play hoof football and are not good to watch.

 

They are very lucky in the CL, look at the shoot out V Milan, Reina off his line every time but did well to win it 3-0 down half time.

 

Would be ironic if Arsenal a team with no Champion League success beats a team with the only excuse of winning the championsleague 5 times or something.

 

They are so lucky in the Championsleague, but i guess its the only thing they will ever concentrate on.

 

I think any team needs a bit of luck to win the Champions League but that's not why they are so successful.

 

Can't see Arsenal winning at Anfield although theres always a chance of them scoring. They were pretty poor against Liverpool yesterday and I thought as soon as Torres came on the defence looked very nervous.

 

Gerrard and Torres are a lethal combination at the moment.

[Denny Crane]

 

They are very lucky in the CL, look at the shoot out V Milan, Reina off his line every time but did well to win it 3-0 down half time.

 

He even found time to don his Jerzy Dudek disguise.

[kearney19]

I think any team needs a bit of luck to win the Champions League but that's not why they are so successful.

 

Can't see Arsenal winning at Anfield although theres always a chance of them scoring. They were pretty poor against Liverpool yesterday and I thought as soon as Torres came on the defence looked very nervous.

 

Gerrard and Torres are a lethal combination at the moment.

 

Gerrard is class, but Torres has still to prove it against the bigger teams, but no doubting his class.

 

Can see it going to extra time.

Arsenal were nervy yesterday V them even more when Torres came on, but Liverpool can be beat at home and this stuff bout the fortress of Anfield on a European night, load of tosh!

 

Its luck!

[kearney19]

He even found time to don his Jerzy Dudek disguise.

 

haha! Sorry Dudek i meant to say.

[shaun.lawson]

What is it with Liverpool and the Champions League?

 

They have won the Champions League an incredible 5 times and finished runners up twice.

 

Why do they seem to excel in Europe but in England they are pretty average?

 

Is it Benitez? He has an outstanding record in the Champions League and in his few years as manager of Liverpool they have reached the final twice, winning it once in arguably the greatest ever final. He has also won the UEFA Cup with Valencia.

 

This season they have broke their record win with an 8-0 victory against Besiktas and look on course for a semi final place after a 1-1 away draw at Arsenal.

 

Does Rafas rotation policy work better in Europe? Are his tactics suited to European competition?

 

I personally think they will go on to win it again this year, their belief and confidence when playing in Europe is incredible.

 

While it's odd how certain clubs (namely, Real Madrid, Milan and Liverpool) have been tremendously successful in this competition down the years, while others (such as Barcelona, Juventus and Man Utd), despite matching or exceeding those three in domestic competition, have been a lot less successful on the wider stage, you have to think Liverpool's recent CL record is pretty much all down to Benitez.

 

Having watched many of their CL games, it seems to me that Rafa is such an ubertactician, it's almost as though he's able to remote control his players in these matches: so every game turns into a chess match. Hence Jorge Valdano's brilliant "**** on a stick" retort about Liverpool-Chelsea last season. As with international football, the CL is far, far more about tactics - which is where Benitez comes into his own.

 

And not only does this increase his players' confidence whenever a European tie comes around, but it also scares opponents who, domestically, would normally fancy themselves to beat the Reds every time. Yes, they were lucky in 2005 - but equally, knocking out Juve, Chelsea and Milan with that team (Vladimir Smicer? Igor Biscan? Djimi Traore?) was a monumental achievement: Liverpool effectively won the European Cup with a team of journeymen.

 

That said though, they've not got past Arsenal yet, and I'm expecting another 1-1 on Tuesday night - meaning penalties, and they have to lose a shootout at some point. And if they do make it, then both Man Utd and Chelsea surely have a better chance of lifting the trophy than they do. It is remarkable though, and the Liverpool board are left in a horrible quandary. They so desperately need to regain the title after so many years - but equally, the European Cup is so prestigious and makes so much cash that how do you turf out a manager so adept at it?

 

They could conceivably carry on like this for years to come - off the pace in the league, but a top 4 place earning the chance to make much money on the European stage (well, enough to keep Rafa in sugar puffs for the next year, at least...)

[Denny Crane]

What is it with Liverpool and the Champions League?

 

They have won the Champions League an incredible 5 times and finished runners up twice.

 

Why do they seem to excel in Europe but in England they are pretty average?

 

Is it Benitez? He has an outstanding record in the Champions League and in his few years as manager of Liverpool they have reached the final twice, winning it once in arguably the greatest ever final. He has also won the UEFA Cup with Valencia.

 

This season they have broke their record win with an 8-0 victory against Besiktas and look on course for a semi final place after a 1-1 away draw at Arsenal.

 

Does Rafas rotation policy work better in Europe? Are his tactics suited to European competition?

 

I personally think they will go on to win it again this year, their belief and confidence when playing in Europe is incredible.

 

Well the first four times (and the first runners-up spot) was in an era in which they destroyed the domestic opposition. The likes of Forest, Villa and Everton would put in the occasional dent but couldn't keep up as Liverpool always responded to their respective challenges (such a dent was beyond Man Utd who between Busby stepping down and Fergie arriving did their best to be football's 'Punch & Judy' show).

As for today, maybe Rafa has the knack of handling a two-legged/one-off situation better than maintaining a run of form over nine months in the league. His tenure at Valencia followed a similar vein.

European Cups are very nice - and a lovely stick to beat Man Utd with - but as Shankly himself said: "The league is our bread and butter". Although 18 years is not as bad as Man Utd's 26 (between 1967-93), Liverpool fans really don't want to get too close to that particular landmark.

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

Gerrard is class, but Torres has still to prove it against the bigger teams, but no doubting his class.

 

Can see it going to extra time.

Arsenal were nervy yesterday V them even more when Torres came on, but Liverpool can be beat at home and this stuff bout the fortress of Anfield on a European night, load of tosh!

 

Its luck!

 

He's done it against the big teams, scored against Chelsea and Inter. (only two I can think of)

[paulah]

I hope Liverpool do it,a love them and their fans are so passionate too

[Stupid Sexy Flanders]

I hope Liverpool do it,a love them and their fans are so passionate too

 

I can't stick Liverpool fans, they remind me of Celtic fans too much.

[The Old Tolbooth]

To be fair AP, when Liverpool won the bulk of their European cups, they were the best side in England by some distance.

 

There was barely a season went by when they didnt win some silverware.

 

When they recently were kings of Europe, it was regarded as a shock as Liverpool have been pants in the league and no one gave them a chance.

 

Tuesdays game against the Gunners really could go any way, although you have to fancy the home team to start as favourites.

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

I know the bulk of the wins were a good few years ago but there still seems to be something about Liverpool in Europe, they won the UEFA Cup quite recently as well (2001?)

 

Just find it fascinating that certain teams can dominate Europe when there are clubs like Man United and Barca who don't win it as often as they should.

 

Does the success of Benitez in Europe mean he has earned a shot with one of the REALLY big clubs?

 

How would he do at the likes of Barca or Real? If he could get his league form sorted out he could be one of the greats.

[Dr Ian Malcolm]

I fancy Liverpool to go through against Arsenal, Torres could be the difference. The last couple of times against Chelsea the scraped through with a very dubious goal and on pens. This time around they can back up the defensive solidity and tactical awareness with a genuine goal threat. Arsenal are more than capable of scoring at Anfield, but not so sure about keeping Liverpool out. They also seem to bottle it a little when under pressure - great for the first three quarters of the season but have lost form when it really counts, what Fergie might call "squeaky bum time".

 

Liverpool 2-1 on the night for me, and fancy them to reach the final.

[The Old Tolbooth]

I know the bulk of the wins were a good few years ago but there still seems to be something about Liverpool in Europe, they won the UEFA Cup quite recently as well (2001?)

 

Just find it fascinating that certain teams can dominate Europe when there are clubs like Man United and Barca who don't win it as often as they should.

 

Does the success of Benitez in Europe mean he has earned a shot with one of the REALLY big clubs?

 

How would he do at the likes of Barca or Real? If he could get his league form sorted out he could be one of the greats.

 

Heaven forbid Benitez going to Barca or Real, I couldnt see him lasting 5 minutes there with his boring brand of football.

[269miles]

Heaven forbid Benitez going to Barca or Real, I couldnt see him lasting 5 minutes there with his boring brand of football.

 

The best thing said about Benitez this thread.

 

He's such a tactical ubermeister he can't put out a team to beat any of the top clubs in the league - check out his record against Man U , Chelsea & Arsenal. But all that is forgiven and forgotten on a cold Wednesday night when they beat someone in the CL.

 

Arsenal can't win/won't win next week ? Anfield is a fortress because of the fans ?

So what happened last season when Arsenal reserves peshed all over them in the league cup and a few days later the A team did the same in the FA cup. Why Benitez is so lionised in the press is beyond me. His team selection and overall sucess in the league is an absolute disgrace but the Scousers think he 's god. Apart from Torres and Gerrard (maybe Mascherano) they haven't got a player that would get a game for the top clubs in the Premiership.

 

Their last appearance in the CL final was a complete embarrasment : they were totally outplayed and outclassed.

 

The season they won it ,Gerrard got them out of the merde with a wonder goal against the Greeks. The following season they were humiliated at home by Benfica.

 

Please spare us another Liverpool v Chelsea borefest this season.

I'm not a Gooner but I hope they stuff Liverpool.

[bobbydee]

While it's odd how certain clubs (namely, Real Madrid, Milan and Liverpool) have been tremendously successful in this competition down the years, while others (such as Barcelona, Juventus and Man Utd), despite matching or exceeding those three in domestic competition, have been a lot less successful on the wider stage, you have to think Liverpool's recent CL record is pretty much all down to Benitez.

 

Having watched many of their CL games, it seems to me that Rafa is such an ubertactician, it's almost as though he's able to remote control his players in these matches: so every game turns into a chess match. Hence Jorge Valdano's brilliant "**** on a stick" retort about Liverpool-Chelsea last season. As with international football, the CL is far, far more about tactics - which is where Benitez comes into his own.

 

And not only does this increase his players' confidence whenever a European tie comes around, but it also scares opponents who, domestically, would normally fancy themselves to beat the Reds every time. Yes, they were lucky in 2005 - but equally, knocking out Juve, Chelsea and Milan with that team (Vladimir Smicer? Igor Biscan? Djimi Traore?) was a monumental achievement: Liverpool effectively won the European Cup with a team of journeymen.

 

That said though, they've not got past Arsenal yet, and I'm expecting another 1-1 on Tuesday night - meaning penalties, and they have to lose a shootout at some point. And if they do make it, then both Man Utd and Chelsea surely have a better chance of lifting the trophy than they do. It is remarkable though, and the Liverpool board are left in a horrible quandary. They so desperately need to regain the title after so many years - but equally, the European Cup is so prestigious and makes so much cash that how do you turf out a manager so adept at it?

 

They could conceivably carry on like this for years to come - off the pace in the league, but a top 4 place earning the chance to make much money on the European stage (well, enough to keep Rafa in sugar puffs for the next year, at least...)

 

all true ..

as soon as liverpool scored on wednesday benitez was not celebrating he was straight to the touch lines telling his players to tighten up...

it does not make the football look good but gets them through.

would not surprise me if the game at anfield is boring as ......... benitez will be happy with 0-0 as it will get them through ...

[Seymour M Hersh]

I can't stick Liverpool fans, they remind me of Celtic fans too much.

 

Hahaha, there speaks someone who's listened to the chelsea avatar set too much!!

[gorgie rd eh11]

Gerrard is class, but Torres has still to prove it against the bigger teams, but no doubting his class.

 

Can see it going to extra time.

Arsenal were nervy yesterday V them even more when Torres came on, but Liverpool can be beat at home and this stuff bout the fortress of Anfield on a European night, load of tosh!

 

Its luck!

 

 

 

Aye it's luck. Five european cups, three uefa cups, eleven european finals. How jammy can they get.

 

[Terrible Trio]

you have to think Liverpool's recent CL record is pretty much all down to Benitez.

 

Having watched many of their CL games, it seems to me that Rafa is such an ubertactician,

 

maybe it's Alex Miller

[kearney19]

Aye it's luck. Five european cups, three uefa cups, eleven european finals. How jammy can they get.

 

 

So your saying the Championsleague final V Milan was not luck?

And the Uefa Cup final they wona few years back ina high scoring game was not luck?

 

All im saying is they get lucky breaks and pure luck in European games.

And as soon as they go back to the EPL they get beat or draw with a lower ranking side.

 

IF Liverpool beat Arsenal and the same with Chelsea V Fenerbache it will be the most boring semi final with the previous Chelsea V Pool Semi to watch.

 

Get ready for hoof football and a boring 1-0 score.

 

But i believe Arsenal will draw 2-2 with them.

[gorgie rd eh11]

So your saying the Championsleague final V Milan was not luck?

And the Uefa Cup final they wona few years back ina high scoring game was not luck?

 

All im saying is they get lucky breaks and pure luck in European games.

And as soon as they go back to the EPL they get beat or draw with a lower ranking side.

 

IF Liverpool beat Arsenal and the same with Chelsea V Fenerbache it will be the most boring semi final with the previous Chelsea V Pool Semi to watch.

 

Get ready for hoof football and a boring 1-0 score.

 

But i believe Arsenal will draw 2-2 with them.

 

 

 

Yes that's what i'm saying. You don't win european trophys with luck.

 

You arsenal fans have pretty short memories when comes to the hoofball have you not. A few seasons of pretty football and your history of dull 1-0 wins is swept under the carpet.

 

The two european finals you talk about were two of the best european finals ever by the way. Kind of shafts your own arguement does it not. Oh and after coming back from europe last week Liverpools reserves got a draw at the emirates.

 

Arsenal play some good stuff and if they get through tomorrow then good luck to them. But good football comes in many forms, don't fall into the lochend trap.

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

Gerrard is class, but Torres has still to prove it against the bigger teams, but no doubting his class.

 

Can see it going to extra time.

Arsenal were nervy yesterday V them even more when Torres came on, but Liverpool can be beat at home and this stuff bout the fortress of Anfield on a European night, load of tosh!

 

Its luck!

 

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

[jamboinheaven]

There is why magic

[The Merse]

:eek::eek::eek::eek:

 

That didn't take long.

 

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

That didn't take long.

 

 

As soon as it left the boot of Torres I had it planned.

 

Yes, I am sad.

[Ivan Drago]

I dont think Arsenal will ever come as close to winning the CL as they did when they got to the final, at least not under Wenger anyway, as great a manager as he is i just dont think his style is suited to two legged knockout fixtures

[jamboinheaven]

********l.

 

waring and kicked i would guess no need for that

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

I dont think Arsenal will ever come as close to winning the CL as they did when they got to the final, at least not under Wenger anyway, as great a manager as he is i just dont think his style is suited to two legged knockout fixtures

 

You can praise Arsenal all you want for their great football but it counts for feck all when you can't defend a lead.

[Ivan Drago]

You can praise Arsenal all you want for their great football but it counts for feck all when you can't defend a lead.

 

exactly, if Chelsea or Liverpool or even Man Utd were in that position you would expect them to go on and go through, with Arsenal there's always the feeling the other team will come back

[Denny Crane]

*********.

 

 

They were duly punished and the club themselves have repented profusely (and will no doubt continue to do so) and, inside the Anfield trophy room, there is a commemorative display paying tribute to those who died at Heysel. The latter is something Juventus fans have publicly wished their own club would do the same - the Turin club for some bizarre reason want to sweep it under the carpet. If you can find a copy of the Observer Sport Monthly's 20th anniversary of the disaster back in 2005, Juve fans express their disgust at their directors for acting as if nothing happened.

 

As for your comment on Liverpool. Maybe in this case it would be better to engage your brain before spewing puerile nonsense.

[jamboinheaven]

They were duly punished and the club themselves have repented profusely (and will no doubt continue to do so) and, inside the Anfield trophy room, there is a commemorative display paying tribute to those who died at Heysel. The latter is something Juventus fans have publicly wished their own club would do the same - the Turin club for some bizarre reason want to sweep it under the carpet. If you can find a copy of the Observer Sport Monthly's 20th anniversary of the disaster back in 2005, Juve fans express their disgust at their directors for acting as if nothing happened.

 

As for your comment on Liverpool. Maybe in this case it would be better to engage your brain before spewing puerile nonsense.

 

thank you matt i have had a few beers and love liverpool you have done us proud

[Ivan Drago]

They were duly punished and the club themselves have repented profusely (and will no doubt continue to do so) and, inside the Anfield trophy room, there is a commemorative display paying tribute to those who died at Heysel. The latter is something Juventus fans have publicly wished their own club would do the same - the Turin club for some bizarre reason want to sweep it under the carpet. If you can find a copy of the Observer Sport Monthly's 20th anniversary of the disaster back in 2005, Juve fans express their disgust at their directors for acting as if nothing happened.

 

As for your comment on Liverpool. Maybe in this case it would be better to engage your brain before spewing puerile nonsense.

 

I may be wrong but im sure the poster said previously that he wanted every British team to do well in Europe except Celtic. I'd ignore his comments as if that's the case he's obviously just fishing.

[kearney19]

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

 

Check who he was being marked by.

Bit poor bringing up old posts I made but thats kids for you.

 

People forget how many goals he has scored away from home and at home.

Torres is class yes but Arsenal jhave an awful defence and if you have Senderos playing for you you deserve to be beaten by one of the best strikers in the world.

[davemclaren]

maybe it's Alex Miller

 

Is that you pushing him forward for the Hearts job?

[JyTees]

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

 

Good finish but when he's shown inside onto his better foot it's poor defending rather than good striking.

 

If you're classing Senderos or even Arsenal for that matter as top notch defending you're off your nut.

 

He'll have to do it against better than that.

 

Maybe against United in the final...then again...was he even playing in the last game at OT?

[JamboJoker98]

Cracking finnish by the lad, no doubt he can go onto bigger and better performances and become a kop legend. Once Arsenal score you did get the feeling that they would drift away. Liverpool always seem to get these jammy decisions on the knock out stages though, its getting really annoying.

 

And just how bad is Senderos!

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

They were duly punished and the club themselves have repented profusely (and will no doubt continue to do so) and, inside the Anfield trophy room, there is a commemorative display paying tribute to those who died at Heysel. The latter is something Juventus fans have publicly wished their own club would do the same - the Turin club for some bizarre reason want to sweep it under the carpet. If you can find a copy of the Observer Sport Monthly's 20th anniversary of the disaster back in 2005, Juve fans express their disgust at their directors for acting as if nothing happened.

 

As for your comment on Liverpool. Maybe in this case it would be better to engage your brain before spewing puerile nonsense.

 

English football was duly punished, I think you mean.

[Flogel98]

What is it with Liverpool and the Champions League?

 

They have won the Champions League an incredible 5 times and finished runners up twice.

 

.

 

No they haven't, they won the old European Cup 4 times and the Champs League once.

 

Differetn competitions, different format.

 

The Champs League I would suggest is harder to win so fair play to them for having managed it but don't get carried away with the being 5 times winners cos they're not.

[gorgie rd eh11]

European champions 5 times. Same difference. The first 4 times Liverpool won it you had to be champions of your own country to gain entry so it was, if anything, harder to win in the past.

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

No they haven't, they won the old European Cup 4 times and the Champs League once.

 

Differetn competitions, different format.

 

The Champs League I would suggest is harder to win so fair play to them for having managed it but don't get carried away with the being 5 times winners cos they're not.

 

5 times champions of Europe I should have said.

 

An amazing achievment whatever format the competition is!

[Denny Crane]

English football was duly punished, I think you mean.

 

Liverpool received an extra three years for when the indefinite ban was lifted. That was reduced to one by UEFA thanks to the gracious intervention (when they had every right to demand full retribution by the Agnelli family (Juve's controlling influence).

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Liverpool received an extra three years for when the indefinite ban was lifted. That was reduced to one by UEFA thanks to the gracious intervention (when they had every right to demand full retribution by the Agnelli family (Juve's controlling influence).

 

I think you'd probably concede that a five-year ban for doing nothing is more severe than a six-year ban for being complicit in the disaster.

[Denny Crane]

I think you'd probably concede that a five-year ban for doing nothing is more severe than a six-year ban for being complicit in the disaster.

 

 

Listen, I'm not saying for one minute that Liverpool should not have been punished. I was origininally responding to IMAMAROON'S nonsense (since expunged by a mod it seems) that the club itself should have been forcibly disbanded after Heysel.

 

In retrospect, the six years that were served does seem light - but that is largely in part to Juve's own benevolence.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Listen, I'm not saying for one minute that Liverpool should not have been punished. I was origininally responding to IMAMAROON'S nonsense (since expunged by a mod it seems) that the club itself should have been forcibly disbanded after Heysel.

 

Fair enough. That is a ludicrous statement.

[Deek]

English football as a whole needed a break from foreign competition.

 

Liverpool were the catalyst for the ban. What happened at the Heysel was horrific and Liverpool fans were totally to blame.

 

But any other English clubs fans could have carried out the same in similar circumstances, such were the times.

 

The enforced break has helped English football, erradicate many but not all their hooligan problems.