Deek Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 Surely its M?nchen and K?ln!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
systemx Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 Surely its Edinburgh and not Edimburg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2NaFish Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nn9Wcy88Np4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deek Posted September 27, 2011 Author Share Posted September 27, 2011 Surely its Edinburgh and not Edimburg Absolutely, but its relatively easy to say M?nchen to us, but burgh, may be difficult for Europeans!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denny Crane Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 London and Londres Prague and Praha Warsaw and Warsawa And so on..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dobmisterdobster Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 Johnny Foreigner doesn't pronounce the names of our cities correctly so why should we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Boy Named Crow Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 Pronumciations vary I suppose, butBayern Munich puzzles me. I would gave thought it was Bavaria Munich to their Bayern Munchen... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasman Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 Surely its M?nchen and K?ln!! The one that really wound me up was the 1990 World Cup Finals in Italy/Italia. It was reported in all the media back home that; "Scotland played in Torino's ground in Turin" - no we fekin didn't! It has to be either "Turin's ground in Turin" or it's "Torino's ground in Torino" but the media knew better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasman Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 Pronumciations vary I suppose, butBayern Munich puzzles me. I would gave thought it was Bavaria Munich to their Bayern Munchen... That's another one to annoy me, and I hadn't even noticed it before... Thanks, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southside1874 Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 Surely its M?nchen and K?ln!! Its all about empire biscuits mate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leginten Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 In Italian, Munich is Monaco. So, confusingly, is the principality of Monaco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romanov Stole My Pension Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 My view is that the team name is FC Bayern, and in Britain we give it a kind of suffix of Munich just to make it easier to remember who they are (like Glasgow Celtic etc.). It wouldn't make much sense to call them Bavaria Munich, since there is no football team called (FC) Bavaria. Calling them Bayern Munchen would be daft too since most people know the place Munich as Munich, so instead of making the team easier to remember it would complicate matters. Same with the Torino thing. The club's name is Torino FC, we don't anglicise the names of foreign businesses so why would we do it with football clubs? But if we're just talking about the place then we'll use the anglicised place name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
269miles Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 In Italian, Munich is Monaco. So, confusingly, is the principality of Monaco. Milan in Germany is Mailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
britishman Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 One always done my nut is PSG we pronounce it "Paris San Jerman" why not Paree or why not Saint Germain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
britishman Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 my post count is now double figures not bad for a lurker who reads forum around twice a day.I hope to raise my posting average to 2.5 - 3 a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossthejambo Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 One always done my nut is PSG we pronounce it "Paris San Jerman" why not Paree or why not Saint Germain Has it never occurred to you that when it's being said maybe the "s" at the end of Paris is actually the "s" at the beginning of Saint? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Bill Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 When I was kid, I knew this... ...as Ayers rock, and that was that. But in the last 20 years, with being to popular to travel to Australia, and an over all sense of political correctness, Ayers Rock is now universally recognised as Uluru, and quite rightly so, seeing as that was the original name given to it. I can see a much greater move towards us giving names/towns/objects etc their proper, localised spelling/pronunciation in future. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2NaFish Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 When I was kid, I knew this... ...as Ayers rock, and that was that. But in the last 20 years, with being to popular to travel to Australia, and an over all sense of political correctness, Ayers Rock is now universally recognised as Uluru, and quite rightly so, seeing as that was the original name given to it. I can see a much greater move towards us giving names/towns/objects etc their proper, localised spelling/pronunciation in future. . Not wanting to go down a PC debate route, but on this one i dont think thats the cause of people calling it Uluru. I think its the same as people referring to barcelona's ground as the Camp Nou. It's just low-level pretention. I dont think it's being down out of a sense of fear of offending aborigines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midloth_Iain Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 It aint just in this country (slightly different scenario of course). This years Hearts v Paks in the Europa draw is an example. Uefa had us down as Hearts of Midlothian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 My view is that the team name is FC Bayern, and in Britain we give it a kind of suffix of Munich just to make it easier to remember who they are (like Glasgow Celtic etc.). It wouldn't make much sense to call them Bavaria Munich, since there is no football team called (FC) Bavaria. Calling them Bayern Munchen would be daft too since most people know the place Munich as Munich, so instead of making the team easier to remember it would complicate matters. Same with the Torino thing. The club's name is Torino FC, we don't anglicise the names of foreign businesses so why would we do it with football clubs? But if we're just talking about the place then we'll use the anglicised place name. Emminently sensible. A few special cases spring to mind though The anglicised "AC Milan" is the actual name even in Italian having begun life as a Cricket Club for English Ex-pats. Some AEK fans get annoyed at the team name being suffixed with "Athens" as the club is supposedly in exile from Constantinople (now Istanbul) and just happens to be in Athens at the moment. The Correct form of Address for "Glasgow Rangers" is simply "Rangers FC" * *: FC doesn't stand for "football club" in this context Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldar Hadzimehmedovic Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 This is a weird one. On one hand it looks like English (the language) arrogance but on the other it's ridiculous. We speak different languages. That's still okay in these tip-toey, difficult times. We have slightly different words for Munich and Cologne just like we have for lemonade, ostrich and vagina. The Ayers Rock one is slightly more tricky. Hypothetically, I don't see the problem with a group of people coming across a landmark and giving it a name in their own language that is different from the one another group of people who also know the landmark have given it in theirs. But seen through the prism of abuse, persecution, denial of rights etc. the one group forced on the other, it becomes much more complex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTH Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 I can see a much greater move towards us giving names/towns/objects etc their proper, localised spelling/pronunciation in future. I hope this includes the rest of the world becoming aware of Heart of Midlothian Football Club rather than this new fangled Hearts FC that seem to be kicking about a lot more now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FWJ Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 Wasn't there something a wee while ago about how we had to refer to FC Basle as "Basil" and not "Bal" because that's how it was pronounced locally? Yet a certain Belgian club is still widely referred to as "FC Bruges" and not "FC Brugge" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Bill Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 I hope this includes the rest of the world becoming aware of Heart of Midlothian Football Club rather than this new fangled Hearts FC that seem to be kicking about a lot more now. That's Chris Robinson's fault with his bloody insistence of us being called 'Hearts FC' for all branding, including our registered name at the start of the SPL era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romanov Stole My Pension Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 Wasn't there something a wee while ago about how we had to refer to FC Basle as "Basil" and not "Bal" because that's how it was pronounced locally? Yet a certain Belgian club is still widely referred to as "FC Bruges" and not "FC Brugge" The German spelling is Basel ("Basil") and the French spelling Basle ("Bal"), but I don't think it's so much that we have to pronounce it the same way as the locals, just that officially the club is FC Basel, so that's what we call them. Calling them Basle wouldn't make sense since there is no FC Basle. I've only ever seen Club Brugge to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 People who say Newcastle with the emphasis on castle get my goat. Keeps me awake at night Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stupid Sexy Flanders Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 This is a weird one. On one hand it looks like English (the language) arrogance but on the other it's ridiculous. We speak different languages. That's still okay in these tip-toey, difficult times. We have slightly different words for Munich and Cologne just like we have for lemonade, ostrich and vagina. Some great examples of words there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazio Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 People who say Newcastle with the emphasis on castle get my goat. Keeps me awake at night Like Geordies do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 Like Geordies do? Basically Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
systemx Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 What was Arthurs Seat known as before the big man sat on it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo east anglia Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 People who say Newcastle with the emphasis on castle get my goat. Keeps me awake at night But don't we play at TyneCASTLE? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 But don't we play at TyneCASTLE? No, it's TYNEcastle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Boy Named Crow Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 That's another one to annoy me, and I hadn't even noticed it before... Thanks, I think. Romanov Stole My Pension seems to have put that one to bed now. I only hope you can find peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peebo Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 My view is that the team name is FC Bayern, and in Britain we give it a kind of suffix of Munich just to make it easier to remember who they are (like Glasgow Celtic etc.). It wouldn't make much sense to call them Bavaria Munich, since there is no football team called (FC) Bavaria. Calling them Bayern Munchen would be daft too since most people know the place Munich as Munich, so instead of making the team easier to remember it would complicate matters. Same with the Torino thing. The club's name is Torino FC, we don't anglicise the names of foreign businesses so why would we do it with football clubs? But if we're just talking about the place then we'll use the anglicised place name. I kind of get what you're saying. I'd suggest Bayern Munchen is a bad example, though. Their official name is....FC Bayern Munchen (as emblazoned twice on a 17-yr-old shirt I have)...which they, themselves, translate it to English as FC Bayern Munich. NB excuse my lack of umlauts above... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teepee Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 Not wanting to go down a PC debate route, but on this one i dont think thats the cause of people calling it Uluru. I think its the same as people referring to barcelona's ground as the Camp Nou. It's just low-level pretention. I dont think it's being down out of a sense of fear of offending aborigines. Anytime we go to an offsite the first thing the speaker does is to give thanks to the tribe that originally owned that area of the land - it happens everywhere here - it is in that sense done not to offend the aborigines but also to acknowledge that there was a country here long before the settlers arrived - as for Uluru it's all a bit strange at some point in the 80's the oz government officially returned it to the tribespeople of that area and it reverted back to it's original name - at the same time they in turn leased it back to the government in a joint owning scheme so by that reckoning it should be called Uluru rock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 'Tis but thy name that is my enemy; Thou art thyself, though not a Montague. What's Montague? it is nor hand, nor foot, Nor arm, nor face, nor any other part Belonging to a man. O, be some other name! What's in a name? that which we call a rose By any other name would smell as sweet; So Romeo would, were he not Romeo call'd, Retain that dear perfection which he owes Without that title. Romeo, doff thy name, And for that name which is no part of thee Take all myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Bill Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 The Newcastle one is a bit annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William H. Bonney Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 Slightly off topic but why do people call bangkok, bangkok? It hasn't been called that in nearly 400 years! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deek Posted September 30, 2011 Author Share Posted September 30, 2011 Wasn't there something a wee while ago about how we had to refer to FC Basle as "Basil" and not "Bal" because that's how it was pronounced locally? Yet a certain Belgian club is still widely referred to as "FC Bruges" and not "FC Brugge" http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/magazinemonitor/2011/09/how_to_say_baselbalebaslebasil.shtml Every now and then the third largest city in Switzerland has been the subject of audience correspondence and staff queries to the BBC Pronunciation Unit. This time it's because of a Twitter debate over a commentator's pronuncation during a Champions League game between Manchester United and FC Basel. There are four different spellings in popular use - Basilea, Basel, B?le and Basle - depending on the language and context they are all pronounced differently. The city of Basle is situated in the German-speaking part of Switzerland, in the border triangle of Switzerland, Germany and France. The original Latin name was Basilea (or Basilia), which has been preserved in Italian and Romansh. The German spelling is Basel, pronounced BAA-zuhl (-aa as in "father", -uh as "a" in "ago", stressed syllable in upper case). Given that it is in the German-speaking part of Switzerland, one might expect the English pronunciation to be based on the German but, in fact, the English form is Basle and for the pronunciation we give the established anglicisation baal (-aa as in "father"). This pronunciation is possibly based on the French spelling B?le, which is also pronounced baal. So which pronunciation should we use? Our usual recommendation for place names is to recommend the established anglicisation, if one exists. For instance, recommending bur-LIN (-ur as in "fur") for Berlin (not bair-LEEN) or Munich, pronounced MYOO-nick (-my as in "mute", -oo as in "boot") for the English form of M?nchen (MUEN-khuhn -ue as in German "f?nf", -kh as in German "ich"). Here at the Pronunciation Unit, we advise our broadcasters to base the pronunciation of Basel, B?le or Basle on the spelling they are using. When speaking about the city, people would generally use the English spelling Basle and pronounce it baal (-aa as in "father"). An example of an English-language use of the German spelling is in the context of football. Our recommendation for the Swiss football club FC Basel 1893 is BAA-zuhl (-aa as in "father", -z as in "zoo"). When we spoke to the press office, the club confirmed that its official name uses the German spelling and pronunciation (BAA-zuhl) and that they preferred that this form be preserved in other languages. For those who are interested the High German pronunciation is EFF tsay BAA-zuhl AKH-tsayn-drigh-uun(t)-NOYN-tsikh (-ts as in "bits", -z as in "zebra", 1st -kh as in Scottish "loch", -ay as in "day", -igh as in "high", -uu as in "book", -oy as in "boy", 2nd -kh as in German "ich", stressed syllables in upper case). The pronunciation of place names is rarely as straightforward as one might think. As a native German speaker I can sympathise with foreigners who are met with a giggle when asking for WOR-sess-tuhr-shigh-uhr-SAWSS (-or as in "corn", -sh as in "ship", -igh as in "high", -aw as in "law"). Another example of a place name, which might be confusing, is Oudenaarde in Flemish Belgium. The established anglicisation for this place name is OO-duh-nard (stressed syllable in upper case, -oo as in "boot", -uh as "a" in "ago", -ar as in "bar"). The Flemish pronunciation is actually closer to OW-duh-nar-duh (-ow as in "now"). So you'd be forgiven for thinking that this is the French pronunciation, but actually the French spelling is Audenarde, pronounced closer to oh-duh-NARD (-oh as in "no"). The English pronunciation appears to be based on the French pronunciation of the Flemish spelling. The key is to have a clear understanding of the context in which a pronunciation is to be used and to be aware of any cultural, political or language-related considerations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Tiresias Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 But don't we play at TyneCASTLE? We do if you're a geordie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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