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#501 Normthebarman

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 08:56 AM

Why should I pay for someone's child?


You could argue similar with regards to paying for people's parents and grandparents with the state pension.

#502 i8hibsh

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 08:56 AM

Why should that child pay for you?


Pretty certain a child will not be.

#503 AlimOzturk

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 08:59 AM

I8 we just to going to allow children to starve because their parents decided not to use protection?

#504 southcap

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 09:01 AM

Pretty certain a child will not be.

I'm pretty sure they will be.



#505 i8hibsh

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 09:01 AM

You could argue similar with regards to paying for people's parents and grandparents with the state pension.


Elderly people in the most will have contributed their entire lives to society. They deserve that and more.

I can't stress this enough, if you can't afford to have children you do not have them. The vast majority of people in the world can't afford children. The welfare system is a great thing and should be for those dealt a bad hand, not to bring up someone's ******* children.

#506 southcap

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 09:01 AM

I8 we just to going to allow children to starve because their parents decided not to use protection?

Nah, he thinks having twice as many pensioners as workers in the future will some how pay for itself.

 

Not sure how, but it will.



#507 i8hibsh

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 09:03 AM

I8 we just to going to allow children to starve because their parents decided not to use protection?


Never said that Alim man. We need to start making it less desireable for those who feel the world owes them a favour or two. Ffs we even give people free contraception in this country!!

#508 AlphonseCapone

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 09:11 AM

If you take your argument even further you could even say "The laws of nature require the obliteration of the unfit and human life is valuable only when it is of use to the community or race."

I do not wish to punish people for their, in my view deficiency, don't try to make me a supremacist with comments such as above.
You do not know me, or my personal circumstances for my views, don't judge on your half informed opinions.


Regardless of your circumstances etc, using the word defiency when talking about someone's sexual orientation is vile imo.

#509 Jambo_in_Hamilton

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 09:34 AM

Not really sure who's on the wind-up on this thread anymore.

I don't see anyone trying to wind up anyone on here at all



#510 Barack

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 09:38 AM

I don't see anyone trying to wind up anyone on here at all


Ok. Cheers.

#511 Riddley Walker

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 10:00 AM

Ok. Cheers.


:lol:

#512 doctor jambo

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 10:03 AM

Pretty certain a child will not be.

You don't understand most pensions.

Certainly state pension there is no pot built up- when it was brought in there had been no-one paying in- so the tax payers of any given generation are paying for those currently retired, then someone else will pay yours out their tax - a reciprocal agreement.

Done on the understanding that when we retire someone will be paying to support us- though I suspect that by the time we retire we wont get anything and the while thing will have been pulled



#513 doctor jambo

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 10:05 AM

Regardless of your circumstances etc, using the word defiency when talking about someone's sexual orientation is vile imo.

Indeed, its all a bit ########## for my liking

gayness = deficiency

Are you Tim farron in disguise?



#514 doctor jambo

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 10:05 AM

Indeed, its all a bit ########## for my liking

gayness = deficiency

Are you Tim farron in disguise?

unter  ......  mensch is blocked out?



#515 OTT

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 01:46 PM

I think if a gay couple can provide a positive nurturing environment for the children then thats what is most important. Plenty of kids end up growing up in foster care/ unloving environments etc which seems considerably worse. Moreover is it any worse than a single parent household? Odds are it would be much more stable environment (financially - 2 person income, adoption is a vocational commitment so children would more than likely be entering a house that really wants them).

 

When adopting (I believe) there is a fairly rigorous checks to make sure the people are decent. Provided they pass the checks I can't see a problem.

 

The only potential issue I could see is the child(ren) failing to pick up traditional gender roles and what is considered appropriate within society based on that. The curveball is that the couple could be aware of that and be extra conscientious not to train the child to copy their behaviour - Thats worded horribly, obviously being gay isn't a learned behaviour but developing/encouraging 'camp' behaviour for example when it isn't in the childs personality could lead to issues like bullying.

 

(I'm talking in general terms, obviously there will be some some gay parents who are complete *****, in the same way straight parents can be *****).

 

The takeaway I want to put across is plenty of straight couples/single parents find inventive ways to screw their children up and I can't fathom how a gay couple who are choosing to adopt could make the child feel anything other than loved and at the end of the day its the childs welfare and social development that is most important. Provided the couple put time and effort into raising the child correctly I don't see any issue whatsoever with it.



#516 i8hibsh

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 01:53 PM

Can I just point out as well that just because a couple are gay does not mean they will be great parents, seem to be taking that from this thread. Gay people also get divorced too.



#517 Jambo_in_Hamilton

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 02:01 PM

Can I just point out as well that just because a couple are gay does not mean they will be great parents, seem to be taking that from this thread. Gay people also get divorced too.

Good point



#518 Stokesy

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 02:27 PM

Good point

 

Not really. I don't think anyone has suggested that homosexual people are guaranteed to be good parents.

 

Lots of people have been stating that all other things being equal there isn't going to be much if any difference between heterosexual and homosexual parents. Peer-reviewed scientific studies backing up this claim have been posted. Do you have any evidence to the contrary?



#519 Homme

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 02:32 PM

I personally know 3 same sex couples.

Two girls have adopted a little boy and they certainly give me the impression they are fantastic, responsible parents.

Two other girls have a 17 year old son through one of their relationships with a man before they met. Look like great parents to me and I think they will adopt together in future as they are both still fairly young. The 17yo is a popular lad - loads of mates, pretty decent at football and plays in a band. The family dynamic doesn't seem to have had an effect on his growing up at all.

I know a male couple very well and although they have no kids at the moment I think they would both be excellent parents in the future. They are absolutely fantastic with the kids in our family - who btw know of their relationship and know that it is normal for couples of the same sex to be in love.

If there is still a major issue with homophobia out there I certainly have not seen it.

Edited by Homme, 24 April 2017 - 02:33 PM.


#520 Homme

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 02:34 PM

Edit - I've just thought of another couple of girls who have become lesbians in recent years. Clearly sleeping with me helped with their decision making process :rofl:

#521 AlphonseCapone

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 02:51 PM

I think if a gay couple can provide a positive nurturing environment for the children then thats what is most important. Plenty of kids end up growing up in foster care/ unloving environments etc which seems considerably worse. Moreover is it any worse than a single parent household? Odds are it would be much more stable environment (financially - 2 person income, adoption is a vocational commitment so children would more than likely be entering a house that really wants them).

When adopting (I believe) there is a fairly rigorous checks to make sure the people are decent. Provided they pass the checks I can't see a problem.

The only potential issue I could see is the child(ren) failing to pick up traditional gender roles and what is considered appropriate within society based on that. The curveball is that the couple could be aware of that and be extra conscientious not to train the child to copy their behaviour - Thats worded horribly, obviously being gay isn't a learned behaviour but developing/encouraging 'camp' behaviour for example when it isn't in the childs personality could lead to issues like bullying.

(I'm talking in general terms, obviously there will be some some gay parents who are complete *****, in the same way straight parents can be *****).

The takeaway I want to put across is plenty of straight couples/single parents find inventive ways to screw their children up and I can't fathom how a gay couple who are choosing to adopt could make the child feel anything other than loved and at the end of the day its the childs welfare and social development that is most important. Provided the couple put time and effort into raising the child correctly I don't see any issue whatsoever with it.


Traditional gender roles?

#522 i8hibsh

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 03:02 PM

Edit - I've just thought of another couple of girls who have become lesbians in recent years. Clearly sleeping with me helped with their decision making process :rofl:

 

I'd gladly help them out with the 'having a baby' part.



#523 John Findlay

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 03:06 PM

Edit - I've just thought of another couple of girls who have become lesbians in recent years. Clearly sleeping with me helped with their decision making process :rofl:


I was under the impression that people were born gay. Or is that just homosexual men and not lesbian woman?

#524 Quagmire

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 04:40 PM

I was under the impression that people were born gay. Or is that just homosexual men and not lesbian woman?

i don't think there's any particular rule, some people just realise they are gay later in life after having kids and stuff. IMO, it's a spectrum that everyone is on, and some people are far enough along to one side for it to be practically black and white, while others are more in the middle but might not want to be one way or the other for social reasons thus repress that side of themselves, i'm sure very often without even particularly noticing their entire lives, or it just basically not really being an issue or whatever.



#525 Quagmire

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 04:42 PM

Can I just point out as well that just because a couple are gay does not mean they will be great parents, seem to be taking that from this thread. Gay people also get divorced too.

i don't think anyone is arguing that, i think the point is that they are just as capable of being great parents. this said, you could probably argue that the amount planning that goes into for gay parents could give them a 'statistical edge' in terms of stability, because they're not going to be in the unwanted/unplanned pregnancy situation...just a thought though.



#526 John Findlay

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 05:14 PM

i don't think there's any particular rule, some people just realise they are gay later in life after having kids and stuff. IMO, it's a spectrum that everyone is on, and some people are far enough along to one side for it to be practically black and white, while others are more in the middle but might not want to be one way or the other for social reasons thus repress that side of themselves, i'm sure very often without even particularly noticing their entire lives, or it just basically not really being an issue or whatever.


Never understood the above at all.