Ecce Romanov Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 Him and Jim McLean were the best managers of that era Taking unfashionable clubs to heights But Clough was a genius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spencer Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 8 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said: Him and Jim McLean were the best managers of that era Taking unfashionable clubs to heights But Clough was a genius Clough was a genius What he achieved was absolutely staggering On Jim McLean, was a great shame they didn't win UEFA Cup. They probably deserved to win it. United had some real cracking players in that side. Many of whom were one club men Different times. Football was better back then imho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Салатные палочки Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 Clough showed that football is ultimately an easy game to play and win at. Never over-complicated things, although he was a complex man himself. He was also a great man-manager and got the best out of players who were unfancied or unfit (John Robertson for example). He wanted his goalkeepers to save shots, his defenders to defend, his midfielders to supply and his strikers to score. He was, in short, a genius. McLean had one great idea which was to pay the players low wages and very high win bonuses. That's bloody genius itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbee647 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 More often than not the players would not see Clough till match day, a fantastic motivator , played it on the grass, his players never argued with officials, and we should never underestimate the value of Peter Taylor, he could find players to fit the Forest and Derby County system, take Kenny Burns a striker at Birmingham who became POTY as a centre half in 1978 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busby8 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 4 minutes ago, jbee647 said: More often than not the players would not see Clough till match day, a fantastic motivator , played it on the grass, his players never argued with officials, and we should never underestimate the value of Peter Taylor, he could find players to fit the Forest and Derby County system, take Kenny Burns a striker at Birmingham who became POTY as a centre half in 1978 Was just delighted that he never managed England. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldar Hadzimehmedovic Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 I'm getting close to old duffer territory, all sentimental about the past, but I've always had a soft spot for Forest and Dundee Utd because of the teams Clough and McLean built. Forest - promotion, champions and double EC winners in four years. Utd - a bent ref away from the EC final against THE Liverpool, winning in the Camp Nou and UEFA Cup Final. Man, football was good in those days. But yeah, Clough was the real deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilary Briss Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 33 minutes ago, Busby8 said: Was just delighted that he never managed England. Agreed. Never could have happened though. The FA were petrified of him. What him and Peter Taylor did with Forest will never be repeated. What a team that was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i wish jj was my dad Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 9 minutes ago, Eldar Hadzimehmedovic said: I'm getting close to old duffer territory, all sentimental about the past, but I've always had a soft spot for Forest and Dundee Utd because of the teams Clough and McLean built. Forest - promotion, champions and double EC winners in four years. Utd - a bent ref away from the EC final against THE Liverpool, winning in the Camp Nou and UEFA Cup Final. Man, football was good in those days. But yeah, Clough was the real deal. I'm with you in this. We never had it so good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Beni of Gorgie Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 My former coach, played for Clough. Quite a few amusing stories, including a tale of how Cloughies brother ran a rather successful amateur team that was less than honest about where the players come from! The reward for the players was as much as they could grab off his newsagents shelves. Other tales included Brian devouring a pot of winter green before walking out of the room following a rather dismal first half performance in the FA Youth Cup at Mansfield. No need for words apparently. His other side included training sessions that were basically a walk along the Trent if the weather was too nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldar Hadzimehmedovic Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 On Clough - I wouldn't say it's forgotten, but it doesn't receive as much attention as his success at Forest - promotion with Derby County, champions, and then EC semi final. Derby County. ? Amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamhammer Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 44 minutes ago, Eldar Hadzimehmedovic said: On Clough - I wouldn't say it's forgotten, but it doesn't receive as much attention as his success at Forest - promotion with Derby County, champions, and then EC semi final. Derby County. ? Amazing. Yeah. Not a one trick pony. Leeds missed a trick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 He wasn't very good without Peter Taylor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Mulk Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 I Believe in Miracles is well worth a watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Four faces Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 11 minutes ago, benny said: He wasn't very good without Peter Taylor. Still built succesful sides and won trophies but yeah,they were a fantastic double act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 1 hour ago, Eldar Hadzimehmedovic said: On Clough - I wouldn't say it's forgotten, but it doesn't receive as much attention as his success at Forest - promotion with Derby County, champions, and then EC semi final. Derby County. ? Amazing. Did he winth first division with Derby? I thought it was Dave Mackay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldar Hadzimehmedovic Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 8 minutes ago, davemclaren said: Did he winth first division with Derby? I thought it was Dave Mackay. They both did. Derby won in 72 and 75. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 Just now, Eldar Hadzimehmedovic said: They both did. Derby won in 72 and 75. So they did. My memory is not what it was clearly. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougal Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 The documentary "I believe in miracles" is a great watch for anyone interested in football in the late 70s early 80s not just those interested in what Clough did after being sacked by Leeds. The start is fantastic with the interview with Clough and Revie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeftBack Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 Clough wasnt the best manager but he was in the top one....a huge personal hero of mine, read countless books on the great man. A flawed genius - but most of them are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 7 hours ago, LeftBack said: Clough wasnt the best manager but he was in the top one....a huge personal hero of mine, read countless books on the great man. A flawed genius - but most of them are. 8 hours ago, Four faces said: Still built succesful sides and won trophies but yeah,they were a fantastic double act. Only won 2 league cups without Taylor. A brilliant duo but his record is average on his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Tolbooth Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 Still love this story by Dean Saunders too, whether it's true or not! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxteth O'Grady Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 Football has been ruined by money Far fewer sides share the spoils now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilary Briss Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 3 hours ago, Sir Gio said: My former coach, played for Clough. Quite a few amusing stories, including a tale of how Cloughies brother ran a rather successful amateur team that was less than honest about where the players come from! The reward for the players was as much as they could grab off his newsagents shelves. Other tales included Brian devouring a pot of winter green before walking out of the room following a rather dismal first half performance in the FA Youth Cup at Mansfield. No need for words apparently. His other side included training sessions that were basically a walk along the Trent if the weather was too nice. Thats must have been some experience working under Cloughie.........very impressive. Forest are my second team...........I had family in Nottingham in 70's / 80's and went to quite a few games in golden era as was down there all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo1961 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 4 minutes ago, jonnothejambo said: The best thing Jim McLean did was chin that BBC Scotland wank John Barnes. "Have some of this". Lamp. Pity someone never lamped that wee dwarf Mclean a bully if ever Though a top Manager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 Jim McLeans hair-do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavieG Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 10 minutes ago, jonnothejambo said: The best thing Jim McLean did was chin that BBC Scotland wank John Barnes. "Have some of this". Lamp. And spent the next hour or so hiding from the pressmen who were waiting to kick his ^^^^ in. He was a coward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Slim Stylee Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 2 hours ago, benny said: Only won 2 league cups without Taylor. A brilliant duo but his record is average on his own. Every manager has a sell-by date, tbh. Apart from a force of nature like Ferguson. The drink was probably Clough's downfall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeftBack Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 3 hours ago, benny said: Only won 2 league cups without Taylor. A brilliant duo but his record is average on his own. It's a fair point. Always thought it interesting that Martin O'Neill's one real failing at a club - Sunderland - came without John Robertson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Fudge Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 " Brian we hired you because you are the best young manager in the land" " I'm the best old one too". As has been mentioned the job he done at Derby was special. But to then take a club like Forest to the heights he did marks him out as arguably the best British manager of all time. If it hadn't been for a rampant Liverpool in those days he could have easily achieved the kind of honours Fergie did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amadjambo Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 8 hours ago, Spencer said: Clough was a genius What he achieved was absolutely staggering On Jim McLean, was a great shame they didn't win UEFA Cup. They probably deserved to win it. United had some real cracking players in that side. Many of whom were one club men Different times. Football was better back then imho Was it the European Cup Semi that had some questionable refereeing? Great team Utd had back then. Remember being gutted when Dave Bowman left us to go there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Fudge Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 16 minutes ago, amadjambo said: Was it the European Cup Semi that had some questionable refereeing? Great team Utd had back then. Remember being gutted when Dave Bowman left us to go there. It was the away tie against AS Roma, had they got through it would have been a Liverpool v Dundee Utd final back in the same stadium in Rome. To be fair the officials were probably knackered after being up all night rattling prossies and picking colours for their soon to be new sports cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookieboy Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 1 hour ago, amadjambo said: Was it the European Cup Semi that had some questionable refereeing? Great team Utd had back then. Remember being gutted when Dave Bowman left us to go there. Bo went to Coventry first did he not ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWL Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 Okay, here's a question. What or when was the defining moment when football changed. In 1988/89 we took Bayern Munich all the way and were a kick in the arse of a UEFA Cup Semi-Final with Napoli; Diego Maradona et al. Not sure who were the actual Euro Champions at the time, maybe AC, Real, Barcelona etc but they weren't in quality terms that much in front of Bayern in the UEFA. We more than held our own against Bayern with what you would call good journeymen players, so when did the real era of the so called superstar begin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amadjambo Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 28 minutes ago, cookieboy said: Bo went to Coventry first did he not ? 29 minutes ago, cookieboy said: Bo went to Coventry first did he not ? Think you may be right now you mention it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacDonald Jardine Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 2 hours ago, amadjambo said: Was it the European Cup Semi that had some questionable refereeing? Great team Utd had back then. Remember being gutted when Dave Bowman left us to go there. It was the European Cup semi. Bowman left us for Coventry then came back up to United. McLean may have built great teams but his method of doing that was at best questionable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacDonald Jardine Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 14 minutes ago, JWL said: Okay, here's a question. What or when was the defining moment when football changed. In 1988/89 we took Bayern Munich all the way and were a kick in the arse of a UEFA Cup Semi-Final with Napoli; Diego Maradona et al. Not sure who were the actual Euro Champions at the time, maybe AC, Real, Barcelona etc but they weren't in quality terms that much in front of Bayern in the UEFA. We more than held our own against Bayern with what you would call good journeymen players, so when did the real era of the so called superstar begin? Early 90s with the Champions League. But the single biggest change was the Bosman ruling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWL Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 10 minutes ago, MacDonald Jardine said: Early 90s with the Champions League. But the single biggest change was the Bosman ruling. Probably but we still took a massive club like Athletico Madrid all the way in 1993. Not sure where I;m going but even after the inception of the CL and the Premiership in England, there must have been a point where everything just went nuclear and the Messi's and Ronaldo's seemed to appear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacDonald Jardine Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 7 minutes ago, JWL said: Probably but we still took a massive club like Athletico Madrid all the way in 1993. Not sure where I;m going but even after the inception of the CL and the Premiership in England, there must have been a point where everything just went nuclear and the Messi's and Ronaldo's seemed to appear. I think it was a cumulative effect of these things and the influence of pay per view TV, which all favoured the bigger clubs in the bigger countries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konrad von Carstein Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 4 hours ago, DavieG said: And spent the next hour or so hiding from the pressmen who were waiting to kick his ^^^^ in. He was a coward. Whit, What pressmen? He was an erse but none of the Scottish press pack would have the minerals to do anything about Barnes being lamped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lauriesrank Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 As far as I am concerned, Brian Clough is the best manager in English football ever. Apart from all his famous quotes, which are class, the refusal to buy FRancis for a million was indicative of things to come and he saw it in 79. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Gin Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 This book on Clough is a good read https://www.amazon.co.uk/Provided-You-Dont-Kiss-Me/dp/0007247117 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacDonald Jardine Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 7 minutes ago, lauriesrank said: As far as I am concerned, Brian Clough is the best manager in English football ever. Apart from all his famous quotes, which are class, the refusal to buy FRancis for a million was indicative of things to come and he saw it in 79. Refusal? He did buy Francis for £1m. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lauriesrank Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 7 minutes ago, MacDonald Jardine said: Refusal? He did buy Francis for £1m didn't he? Na, 999,999, in reality it was a little less but cause of vat etc, it ended up 1.2 million [sic] Giuseppe Salvodi was the worlds first million quid player though. Anyway, clough wasn't willing to pay a million. Savoldi was bought for about 23984287346827346 billion lire, which was £1.2 million at the time, before taxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacDonald Jardine Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, lauriesrank said: Na, 999,999, in reality it was a little less but cause of vat etc, it ended up 1.2 million [sic] Giuseppe Salvodi was the worlds first million quid player though. Anyway, clough wasn't willing to pay a million. Okay. If I remember rightly he was publicised as the first £1m footballer. I take the point about Clough though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NANOJAMBO Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 Clough was a foul mouthed (Michael Sheen put a few folk straight on that on a 5Live interview) dinosaur who was completely bent ( FA ban for selling cup final tickets, cash in a bag from Celtic for arranging Davie Provan's testimonial). Other stuff I know but can't post because it's from 3rd parties. I actually saw his Forest team that won the European Cup - it made Mourinho look like Pep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Placid Casual Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 8 hours ago, NANOJAMBO said: Other stuff I know but can't post because it's from 3rd parties. Come on. I don’t think the Clough family’s lawyers read Kickback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 Maybe different eras produce different characters. Likes of Allardyce and Pullis have been accused of different things especially re financial benefits. Modern guys probably more clean though with the murky world of agents you never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nookie Bear Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 11 hours ago, NANOJAMBO said: Clough was a foul mouthed (Michael Sheen put a few folk straight on that on a 5Live interview) dinosaur who was completely bent ( FA ban for selling cup final tickets, cash in a bag from Celtic for arranging Davie Provan's testimonial). Other stuff I know but can't post because it's from 3rd parties. I actually saw his Forest team that won the European Cup - it made Mourinho look like Pep. Or...Footballing Genius. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmore Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 Just heard john McGovern singing AC/ DC in the style of Brian Clough. Second time I've heard it and still worth hearing. He does 'a whole lot of Rosie'. Worth a listen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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