Notorious BIG Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 hiya, i got a parking ticket today when i was parked in private property at mcdonald road, it was issued by town and city parking LTD, ive herd that u just ignore these tickets, is that true, has anyone dealt with them in the past, u need a permit but i had one and was on my way up to the flat to get the permit! i only have 10 days to decide wat to do, can anyone shed any light cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattyw_1874 Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Place it firmly in the bin. Nothing will come of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southside1874 Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 hiya, i got a parking ticket today when i was parked in private property at mcdonald road, it was issued by town and city parking LTD, ive herd that u just ignore these tickets, is that true, has anyone dealt with them in the past, u need a permit but i had one and was on my way up to the flat to get the permit! i only have 10 days to decide wat to do, can anyone shed any light cheers! You can't be charged for parking on private property unless you cause damage to the property Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 hiya, i got a parking ticket today when i was parked in private property at mcdonald road, it was issued by town and city parking LTD, ive herd that u just ignore these tickets, is that true, has anyone dealt with them in the past, u need a permit but i had one and was on my way up to the flat to get the permit! i only have 10 days to decide wat to do, can anyone shed any light cheers! If they're a private firm then do the following: 1) Find a bin 2) Rip said ticket in half 3) Place said ticket in said bin 4) Go to the boozer and spend your ?60 on sambuca If it's a council parking ticket then I'd probably pay it to be fair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notorious BIG Posted February 15, 2011 Author Share Posted February 15, 2011 cheers guys, i thought that, ive just turned 18 and started driving and wasnt sure wat to do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millano Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 hiya, i got a parking ticket today when i was parked in private property at mcdonald road, it was issued by town and city parking LTD, ive herd that u just ignore these tickets, is that true, has anyone dealt with them in the past, u need a permit but i had one and was on my way up to the flat to get the permit! i only have 10 days to decide wat to do, can anyone shed any light cheers! Just ignore it! Don't respond to it, the minute you do you accept responsibility. They will send you some letters maybe threatening but ignore these also as they don't have a leg to stand on. they may say they are taking legal action but they wont. Had many of these in the past due to a dispute I had with a neighbour and even CAB said to ignore them. If you require any other advice PM me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumpy Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Yes ignore. There is no appeal process (despite what they claim). If you contact them you'll be put on a responders list and get even more junk mail (until you ignore them). You can expect 2 - 3 letters from Town and City, 2 - 3 from so called debt collectors and maybe 1 or 2 from a lawyer. The threat level will steadily increase as they realise your not biting - all manor of threats starting out with maybe ccj's, maybe court action, maybe removal of property etc etc. then progressing to impending court action. They eventually run out of threats about their second final warning of intended litigation and might even offer you a discount Its a scam on a par with Nigerian e-mails requesting your bank details. Enjoy ignoring. FYI the only ones you respond to are Fixed Penalty Notices from the Police, Penalty Charge Notices from the Council or a genuine notice from the Sheriff court. Plenty of forums dedicated to how to deal with the scammers if you need more confidence. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?88-Parking-Traffic-Offences http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=30 http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/forumdisplay.php?f=163 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumpy Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Watchdog article on these Private Parking Companies (PPC's). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambof3tornado Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 I have had my 3rd letter for parking behind Aldi on gorgie rd the night of the cup game. Managing to ignore them all. Quite threatening and a lesser man would have paid up by now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wibble Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Is it not time that someone collected all these threatening letters then sued them for causing upset and distress? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumpy Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Is it not time that someone collected all these threatening letters then sued them for causing upset and distress? Some of these companies have crossed the line and have been fined for harassment and passing themselves off as something they're not. Most tread a fine line but manage to keep just on the right side of the law - they tend to use words like may or could to disguise the threats and give them a get out if anyone does take them to court. They also attempt to make their letters sound / look official in order to con people into paying. The business model relies on people paying up either by mistaking their invoice as a real fine or falling for the bullying and intimidation tactics. The forums I posted links to earlier have plenty of examples of these companies methods. Its also very rare that the PPC's take anyone to court let alone win. Any cases they have won are strongly suspected as set ups or by default. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zibi Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 100% nothing happens mate. I don't drive yet but my Dad has had loads from that same group and nothing ever comes of them The companies know they will be successful in intimidating some folk to pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munch Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 hiya, i got a parking ticket today when i was parked in private property at mcdonald road, it was issued by town and city parking LTD, ive herd that u just ignore these tickets, is that true, has anyone dealt with them in the past, u need a permit but i had one and was on my way up to the flat to get the permit! i only have 10 days to decide wat to do, can anyone shed any light cheers! i got one of these a few years back i wrote to them saying to not bother sending mail to this address any more as the previous owner whom the ticket was made out to no longer stays here, i told them as far as i was aware he had moved to Australia and all future letters would be binned. I never heard a peep again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munch Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 If they're a private firm then do the following: 1) Find a bin 2) Rip said ticket in half 3) Place said ticket in said bin 4) Go to the boozer and spend your ?60 on sambuca If it's a council parking ticket then I'd probably pay it to be fair no always appeal if nothing else it throws a spanner in there works Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheriff Fatman Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Is it not time that someone collected all these threatening letters then sued them for causing upset and distress? On the other hand is it not time that those of us that don't park on private property and think we should get of with it scot free started using the driveways of those that do. I can just imagine the howls of 'That's ok, you are free to park where you want'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southside1874 Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 On the other hand is it not time that those of us that don't park on private property and think we should get of with it scot free started using the driveways of those that do. I can just imagine the howls of 'That's ok, you are free to park where you want'. you live in the sticks then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devorgilla Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Poor connection so haven't watched it, but presumably the Watchdog piece will be about the situation south of the border, and therefore probably different legisilation/situation? Pretty sure the use of clamping there is different, ie permitted there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trotter Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Poor connection so haven't watched it, but presumably the Watchdog piece will be about the situation south of the border, and therefore probably different legisilation/situation? Pretty sure the use of clamping there is different, ie permitted there! There's a whole host of stuff going through the courts at the minute. The bottom line is that it is technically legal, but it is under the basis of contract law. Therefore by 'agreeing' to the company's terms (which are usually on a sign somewhere out of sight) by driving into a car park you are saying that you agree to any fine which comes your way. HOWEVER, you may only legally sue for damages as a result of you breaching the contract, i.e. what is the net worth of one car space out of a couple of hundred over the time you spent there. Usually this is nowhere near the hundreds of pounds these charlatans charge. Clamping however is a grey area, but one guy down here (Hull) spent 2 days in his car the other week after they clamped and tried to remove his car. They eventually gave in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumpy Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 no always appeal if nothing else it throws a spanner in there works Never contact them. If you do you, you get marked for special treatment (lots of threatening letters instead of just a few). There is no proper appeals process. If you answer, they know you're there and go after you with a vengeance. On the other hand is it not time that those of us that don't park on private property and think we should get of with it scot free started using the driveways of those that do. I can just imagine the howls of 'That's ok, you are free to park where you want'. That is actually a fair point. No one should condone taking the piss out of parking on private ground, however when there's no (or inadequate) signs, the invoice is way out of proportion, there's no appeals procedure, any alleged contract is with the driver - not the registered keeper (who will receive the scam invoice - as there's no way anyone could identify twho the actual driver was), the basics of contract law aren't adhered to and so on, then we have a problem. Add to that the lies and bully boy tactics used by these companies (and that it is really only the land owner who can sue you for actual losses), then the whole private parking industry is a scam. Its pretty much the same as clamping. Poor connection so haven't watched it, but presumably the Watchdog piece will be about the situation south of the border, and therefore probably different legisilation/situation? Pretty sure the use of clamping there is different, ie permitted there! No. Its exactly the same here. The only difference is that in England they threaten you with a CCJ. Here it should be a Sheriffs Decree but they can't even get that right and usually illegally threaten you under English law with a CCJ. There's a whole host of stuff going through the courts at the minute. The bottom line is that it is technically legal, but it is under the basis of contract law. Therefore by 'agreeing' to the company's terms (which are usually on a sign somewhere out of sight) by driving into a car park you are saying that you agree to any fine which comes your way. HOWEVER, you may only legally sue for damages as a result of you breaching the contract, i.e. what is the net worth of one car space out of a couple of hundred over the time you spent there. Usually this is nowhere near the hundreds of pounds these charlatans charge. Clamping however is a grey area, but one guy down here (Hull) spent 2 days in his car the other week after they clamped and tried to remove his car. They eventually gave in. Pretty reasonable summary. Could add "what are the losses from a free car park". As there are none they are entitled to .....errr, well.....nothing. Sorry about the spelling / grammar. I was on the move last night + at the moment. Key point is ignore. Their invoices are unenforceable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumpy Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 There's a whole host of stuff going through the courts at the minute. The bottom line is that it is technically legal, but it is under the basis of contract law. Therefore by 'agreeing' to the company's terms (which are usually on a sign somewhere out of sight) by driving into a car park you are saying that you agree to any fine which comes your way. HOWEVER, you may only legally sue for damages as a result of you breaching the contract, i.e. what is the net worth of one car space out of a couple of hundred over the time you spent there. Usually this is nowhere near the hundreds of pounds these charlatans charge. Clamping however is a grey area, but one guy down here (Hull) spent 2 days in his car the other week after they clamped and tried to remove his car. They eventually gave in. Just reread the end of your post. Clamping is illegal in Scotland but still legal in England (at least for now). Its likely to become illegal later this year. On the downside Section 4 of the draft of the governments new Freedom bill very clearly states that Registered Keepers will become responsible for Parking charges issued by these scammers. There's a lot of inconsistency and anomalies in the draft though so hopefully that will be amended out. That only removes one hurdle for them though - there's still plenty of questions to be answered such as whether the "penalty" is fair + the basics of contract law i.e. offer, consideration and acceptance. As it stands,it shouldn't make much difference to the advice on ignoring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homme Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Ok guys, i think i know the answer from reading numerous threads similar to this one in the past, however i find myself in the same situation now and just require a bit reassurance. I have a firm called Parking Eye Car Park Management wanting money from me. This was for marginally exceeding the allocated time allowed in a local retail park. They have a wee pic of my car entering and leaving the car park too. Ignore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sterling Archer Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Ok guys, i think i know the answer from reading numerous threads similar to this one in the past, however i find myself in the same situation now and just require a bit reassurance. I have a firm called Parking Eye Car Park Management wanting money from me. This was for marginally exceeding the allocated time allowed in a local retail park. They have a wee pic of my car entering and leaving the car park too. Ignore? Send them a picture of your ******. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe.gausden Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Ok guys, i think i know the answer from reading numerous threads similar to this one in the past, however i find myself in the same situation now and just require a bit reassurance. I have a firm called Parking Eye Car Park Management wanting money from me. This was for marginally exceeding the allocated time allowed in a local retail park. They have a wee pic of my car entering and leaving the car park too. Ignore? Yes, as long as they are an English based company. If they're Scottish your car will be lifted and crushed in 5 days Joke BTW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicholas Brody Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Ok guys, i think i know the answer from reading numerous threads similar to this one in the past, however i find myself in the same situation now and just require a bit reassurance. I have a firm called Parking Eye Car Park Management wanting money from me. This was for marginally exceeding the allocated time allowed in a local retail park. They have a wee pic of my car entering and leaving the car park too. Ignore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
...a bit disco Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Yes, as long as they are an English based company. If they're Scottish your car will be lifted and crushed in 5 days Joke BTW English apparently! car Park chargey *******s link Good times! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homme Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 The mob are from Chorley? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbo-Jambo Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Send them a picture of your ******. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
¼½¾ Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 I got a ticket in a Lidl car park a couple of years ago and just threw it away. When they wrote to me, as the registered keeper, demanding payment, I wrote back telling them that under Scots law, it is the driver of the car who has entered into a contract with them by parking, and not the registered keeper. I asked them politely to tell me who was driving the car at the time and I would make sure they paid. After some time I got another letter demanding payment, and quoting from the Road Traffic Act; a section to do with the registered keeper having to know who was driving the car at any time. I pointed out that the quote they used related to motor insurance, and accused them of using the quote to try and intimidate me into paying. I ended my letter by asking again for details of who was driving the car and told them I had taken legal advice and that any further contact, except to provide the information I asked for would be treated as harassment and reported to the police. I never heard fro the c^^ts again. Some of the comments to this EEN story might be helpful. http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/Landlord39s-car-park-plan-is.6831474.jp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trotter Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 These tickets are NOT ENFORCABLE UNDER SCOTS LAW... And even if they were, they have to prove that 1) you knowingly entered into a contract - they post tiny wee notices about the place saying this but if you didn't see it you're fine, and 2) as they're essentially 'suing' you for breach of said contract, they have to prove that the penalty charge they are enforcing is relistic and proportionate to the 'damage' you caused. i.e. did you overstying by ten mins cost them (or the supermarket ?70 or whatever the fine is. Seeing as they can't prove either you tell them to piss off. They try and get money by threatening letters, bailiffs, CCJs etc, just ignore them and they'll go away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabienleclerq Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 I have had my 3rd letter for parking behind Aldi on gorgie rd the night of the cup game. Managing to ignore them all. Quite threatening and a lesser man would have paid up by now! Got one at the same aldi pied it, got three letters price going up each time.Didnt reply at all and never heard from them again. i think the main thing is only if its the police or council you have to say by law who was driving.and if its a private firm you dont so they cant take you to court because they dont know who was driving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notorious BIG Posted September 20, 2011 Author Share Posted September 20, 2011 A started the thread and heard once or twice from them but not heard a peep in 3-4 months Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homme Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 A started the thread and heard once or twice from them but not heard a peep in 3-4 months Was hoping you would return and post. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT1959 Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 To the OP, as a new driver you will have many years of happy motoring ahead of you. Make it your business, whenever you park, to check parking regulations for the parking space you are using and you will not go far wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notorious BIG Posted September 20, 2011 Author Share Posted September 20, 2011 i had a permit but was on my way up to get it when the fly B****** came round in his car Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumpy Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Do not ignore a Fixed Penalty Notice issued by the Police. Do not ignore a Penalty Charge Notice issued by or on behalf of the council. Do ignore any Parking Charge Notice received from scamming scum commonly known as Private Parking Companies. They issue unenforceable invoices - ignore them and their pet debt collectors / lawyers. They are scammers - every last one. They'll send several threatograms about court appearances, you losing, you having your credit rating destroyed, sheriffs officers - all lies and deception. Ignore. Do not respond at all. If you acknowledge them, your added to the responders list and they'll send you a few extra empty threats. Ignore, Ignore, Ignore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southside1874 Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 To the OP, as a new driver you will have many years of happy motoring ahead of you. Make it your business, whenever you park, to check parking regulations for the parking space you are using and you will not go far wrong. And stick to the speed limit!! Keep to the correct lane at all time and never be stopped for driving with due care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambof3tornado Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Parking eye are scumbags who rely on idiots paying up without googling them 1st!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GazzaBroon Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Council issued tickets can be a scam also. I have had several tickets when I have legally purchased a ticket and the wardens have indiscriminately issued tickets to the cars parked in a area. Recently I appealed a ticket issued at Chalmers Street sfter taking my daughter to the Dental Clinic. I purchased a ticket, came back and a parking ticket was placed on several cars including mine where I had parked. On checking the offence code it seemed I and the others had parked outwith the bay lines. When I checked, there was no real sign of white lines as the building work being carried out had covered most of the bays with concrete dust, therefore they were no longer adequately visible. I appealed and won with an apoligy. I have appealed on several occasions previously and won because some warded go for a lottery approach whereby's the rely on most folk not officially challenging the ticket. Check your ticket to see the offence code that they have done you with as sometimes it can be wrong. eg. I was ticketed for not displaying the correct permit for the bay I'd parked in. There were big yellow signs saying that the bays had been suspended. Now if a bay is suspended there is no permit offence as there is a separate offence code for parking in a suspended bay which should have been issued on the ticket. So in theory I did commit a parking offence, but not the one the ticket accused me of. Result = Ticket withdrawn. I parked at the opening of a gate which had been padlocked and barricaded for months. Returned to find a ticket on the windscreen. Offence was parked on a yellow line beyond the 5 minutes or so. I looked to the ground and there was only a patchy remnant of what remained of the yellow paint. I took photographs and challenged the ticket. Result = Ticket withdrawn. Parked on George Street for 5 minutes one day, came back, ticket issued. The bit where i had parked had just been resurfaced and the yellow lines hadn't been painted back yet. Took photo's sent them in with my challenge. Result = Ticket withdrawn. So check your offence code Offence Codes Take photographs of the area and send them in with your challenge which you can do online Challenge a Parking Ticket And don't let the bassas fleece you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul_C Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Do not ignore a Fixed Penalty Notice issued by the Police. Do not ignore a Penalty Charge Notice issued by or on behalf of the council. Do ignore any Parking Charge Notice received from scamming scum commonly known as Private Parking Companies. They issue unenforceable invoices - ignore them and their pet debt collectors / lawyers. They are scammers - every last one. They'll send several threatograms about court appearances, you losing, you having your credit rating destroyed, sheriffs officers - all lies and deception. Ignore. Do not respond at all. If you acknowledge them, your added to the responders list and they'll send you a few extra empty threats. Ignore, Ignore, Ignore Scamming Scum is a bit much is it not? These are companies who are operating on behalf on landowners who want to protect their land from people parking on it who A - shouldn't be there and B - can't be arsed finding a proper parking bay and paying for it. Someone owns a small housing estate which has 30 bays marked for Permit Holders Only. Each resident gets a permit, but a few can't park outside their own homes cos someone thinks they are above paying attention to signs on private land. They get a ticket issued by a wee 60 year old attendant, who is now "scamming scum". A supermarket buys land and builds a store. They have enough room for parking spaces for shoppers. Shoppers coming to the store can't get parked cos people park there to go to the football, work, other shops in the town. The store manager loses the money that shopper was going to spend in his store. He's well within his rights to make sure anyone who wants to shop there, gets to park there. So he hires "scamming scum" to help protect his store's investment in their car park. I work for one of those private companies so I'm "scamming scum" now too by this logic. Your last line about being "added to the responders list" is utter nonsense too. There is no such thing as a "responders list". Believe it or not, when it comes to pay and display car parks, operators make more money from people complying with the regulations than issuing tickets. Aberdeen Council admitted this. If you have a bay that's ?2 an hour say, you park in it and pay ?4. You leave after an hour. Someone else takes your bay just after you leave, and pays ?2 for an hour. The council has made ?4 for that bay for that one hour as you've both paid for it. If they issue a ticket for ?30, it costs them through wages (both for the attendant and the back office staff to process the ticket), DVLA trace, letters, paper, cost of the ticket roll etc about ?10 to issue that ticket. If the car sits in that bay, ticketed, for 8 hours then the council lose at least ?16 in hiring that bay out to other users. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homme Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Scamming Scum is a bit much is it not? These are companies who are operating on behalf on landowners who want to protect their land from people parking on it who A - shouldn't be there and B - can't be arsed finding a proper parking bay and paying for it. Someone owns a small housing estate which has 30 bays marked for Permit Holders Only. Each resident gets a permit, but a few can't park outside their own homes cos someone thinks they are above paying attention to signs on private land. They get a ticket issued by a wee 60 year old attendant, who is now "scamming scum". A supermarket buys land and builds a store. They have enough room for parking spaces for shoppers. Shoppers coming to the store can't get parked cos people park there to go to the football, work, other shops in the town. The store manager loses the money that shopper was going to spend in his store. He's well within his rights to make sure anyone who wants to shop there, gets to park there. So he hires "scamming scum" to help protect his store's investment in their car park. I work for one of those private companies so I'm "scamming scum" now too by this logic. Your last line about being "added to the responders list" is utter nonsense too. There is no such thing as a "responders list". Believe it or not, when it comes to pay and display car parks, operators make more money from people complying with the regulations than issuing tickets. Aberdeen Council admitted this. If you have a bay that's ?2 an hour say, you park in it and pay ?4. You leave after an hour. Someone else takes your bay just after you leave, and pays ?2 for an hour. The council has made ?4 for that bay for that one hour as you've both paid for it. If they issue a ticket for ?30, it costs them through wages (both for the attendant and the back office staff to process the ticket), DVLA trace, letters, paper, cost of the ticket roll etc about ?10 to issue that ticket. If the car sits in that bay, ticketed, for 8 hours then the council lose at least ?16 in hiring that bay out to other users. For what its worth i agree that landowners need to protect their property / looking after their businesses. Can you tell me what is not scummy about threatening, harassing individuals into being conned out of money they are legally not required to pay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul_C Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 For what its worth i agree that landowners need to protect their property / looking after their businesses. Can you tell me what is not scummy about threatening, harassing individuals into being conned out of money they are legally not required to pay? What's scummy / threatening / harassment about a letter that says to the registered keeper that they are due x amount of pounds and they have 28 days to pay it, and should they not do so, the matter will be passed to a Sheriff Officer, who may take the dispute to court? When they don't pay it, the amount owed get's passed to a Sheriff Officer. They effectively buy the debt, and chase the correspondant for that money, that's how they make their money, and why they add on their percentage. If you want to throw the word scummy about, should it not be pointed at the debt collectors? The point about these Parking Charge Notices and any court action is that the owner can say, how can you justify charging me ?30 when it would've cost ?2 to park there. I've said on threads like this before, a company will not take you to court for a ?30 unpaid parking ticket. If you have loads of them, then they can, and probably would. The long and the short of it is, if car owners pay attention to the signs, park where you are allowed to, and not think they are above being told what to do on someone elses property then there wouldn't be a need to issue PCN's, would there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homme Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 I will try and engage in debate later, but i am away to the game. Free parking of course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trotter Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 What's scummy / threatening / harassment about a letter that says to the registered keeper that they are due x amount of pounds and they have 28 days to pay it, and should they not do so, the matter will be passed to a Sheriff Officer, who may take the dispute to court? When they don't pay it, the amount owed get's passed to a Sheriff Officer. They effectively buy the debt, and chase the correspondant for that money, that's how they make their money, and why they add on their percentage. If you want to throw the word scummy about, should it not be pointed at the debt collectors? The point about these Parking Charge Notices and any court action is that the owner can say, how can you justify charging me ?30 when it would've cost ?2 to park there. I've said on threads like this before, a company will not take you to court for a ?30 unpaid parking ticket. If you have loads of them, then they can, and probably would. The long and the short of it is, if car owners pay attention to the signs, park where you are allowed to, and not think they are above being told what to do on someone elses property then there wouldn't be a need to issue PCN's, would there? for the sake of argument, if we ignore the principle of 'don't park where you shouldn't' for a second... as i've previously stated, the car parks where this occurs typically display signage that states something along the lines of "by parking here you agree to these terms..." the terms of course being that your arse gets fined for contravening whatever rules they have in that particular car park. However, often these signs are tiny and are in conspicuous places so that you don't actually see them. So look at it this way, some OAP goes into a car park with a 1hr limit, doesn't notice the signs and ends up being fined after parking for 2. He/she then gets increasingly aggressive and threatening letters. Now, by effectively making you enter a 'contract' when you park, these parking charges are covered under contract law, NOT criminal law. Now, the owner of that contract can sue you for breach of said contract (in this case the parking charges). However, the amount MUST be in proportion to the 'loss' incurred by breach of the contract. Can anyone honestly tell me that the 'loss' of a parking space, particularly in large car parks like supermarkets is justified by way of a ?70+ fine? I don't think so. Also, a large percentage of these companies are not registered with the security industry agency. If they cannot provide you with their SIA accreditation tell them to get tae. graeme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GazzaBroon Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Exactly, nicely put Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul_C Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 for the sake of argument, if we ignore the principle of 'don't park where you shouldn't' for a second... as i've previously stated, the car parks where this occurs typically display signage that states something along the lines of "by parking here you agree to these terms..." the terms of course being that your arse gets fined for contravening whatever rules they have in that particular car park. However, often these signs are tiny and are in conspicuous places so that you don't actually see them. So look at it this way, some OAP goes into a car park with a 1hr limit, doesn't notice the signs and ends up being fined after parking for 2. He/she then gets increasingly aggressive and threatening letters. Now, by effectively making you enter a 'contract' when you park, these parking charges are covered under contract law, NOT criminal law. Now, the owner of that contract can sue you for breach of said contract (in this case the parking charges). However, the amount MUST be in proportion to the 'loss' incurred by breach of the contract. Can anyone honestly tell me that the 'loss' of a parking space, particularly in large car parks like supermarkets is justified by way of a ?70+ fine? I don't think so. Also, a large percentage of these companies are not registered with the security industry agency. If they cannot provide you with their SIA accreditation tell them to get tae. graeme That's the point I was alluding to about the ?30 compared to ?2 thing, regarding contract law, and implied acceptance. Regarding SIA, the SIA is, or is in the process of, being abolished. Parking attendants only required SIA licences if their job entailed security on a car park, or they were involved in clamping, which is obviously not happening in Scotland. The vast majority are only walking around issuing tickets so they were not required to be SIA licence holders. This might give you an idea of what companies need to adhere to - http://www.britishparking.co.uk/write/BPA_CodeofPractice_v8.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van Wilder Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Very informative thread. Keep the debate going lads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheriff Fatman Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 for the sake of argument, if we ignore the principle of 'don't park where you shouldn't' for a second... Why should we ignore the the most pertinent point. If you park somewhere you are not supposed to because; i) you are too lazy to walk a bit further ii) you are too much of a skinflint to pay the correct fees then you deserve all you get and nobody should have any sympathy with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GazzaBroon Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Or iii) The lack of adequate car parking in Edinburgh forcing you to look for alternatives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dobmisterdobster Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 I was always under the impression that parking tickets from private companies are not worth the paper they are written on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumpy Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 What's scummy / threatening / harassment about a letter that says to the registered keeper that they are due x amount of pounds and they have 28 days to pay it, and should they not do so, the matter will be passed to a Sheriff Officer, who may take the dispute to court? When they don't pay it, the amount owed get's passed to a Sheriff Officer. They effectively buy the debt, and chase the correspondant for that money, that's how they make their money, and why they add on their percentage. If you want to throw the word scummy about, should it not be pointed at the debt collectors? The point about these Parking Charge Notices and any court action is that the owner can say, how can you justify charging me ?30 when it would've cost ?2 to park there. I've said on threads like this before, a company will not take you to court for a ?30 unpaid parking ticket. If you have loads of them, then they can, and probably would. The long and the short of it is, if car owners pay attention to the signs, park where you are allowed to, and not think they are above being told what to do on someone elses property then there wouldn't be a need to issue PCN's, would there? The majority of tickets are issued to cars which have overstayed some random time in a free supermarket car park. Signs (if they exist) are usually inadequate or misleading / hidden in a dark corner. The Private Parking Companies, their pet debt collectors and charlatan lawyers can't get a decree against anyone or hand the case over to Sheriffs Officers just because they feel like it. First they have to go to court (very unlikely) and win (several levels of magnitude less likely). Its also illegal for one private individual to fine another - yet their letters constantly refer to fines and use legal sounding phrases designed to confuse and give them some air of legitimacy. Add to that that they can only go after the driver - not the owner (although they'll lie about that too) and that the land owner can only recover actual losses - so where do the demands for ?60, ?90, ?120 rising to ?400 or more come from ? Actual losses for overstaying in a free car park by a few minutes: I'd make that nothing. Remember this is an industry which evolved from the clampers (extortionists under Scots law since the early 90's) and doesn't even follow its own code of conduct or have an independent appeals process. They rely on threats , lies and intimidation. Oh and if they happen to get hold of your phone number, then the fun really starts - you'd understand what intimidation means then. So we have companies demanding large sums of money, which do not reflect actual loss or reasonable expenses. Those same companies can be proven to lie and to break the law in their pursuit of these excessive demands whilst frequently harassing their victims. They also ignore their own "rules" and don't have any appeals process (unless you hit the jackpot and get the local paper to take up your story). Obviously there is a minority of drivers who do take advantage. No one should condone that and to be honest if such an individual came back to discover some misfortune had befallen their car, I wouldn't feel sorry for them. Personally I would never knowingly park on someone else's property unless I had legitimate business. I suspect the vast majority of people are the same. Most of these invoices are issued to innocent shoppers - I've been caught out twice. Once there was absolutely no signage and I did a genuine shop / made the mistake of going for a coffee which took me over the invisible time limit, the other time I was 2 minutes 35 seconds over my allocated 45 minute parking limit (complete with receipts for a Christmas shop of well over ?100) - appeals both rejected / neither invoice paid / full set of letters posted on the appropriate forums. Scum and scam seems appropriate to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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