Rawrrrrrrr Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 Have they established the cause of death yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cigaro Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geddy Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 I am down south visting family just now. Last night on the BBC news in the sport section, they mentioned it was the weekend of the underdog. They spoke about the FA cup and showed goals. However strangely enough said nothing and showed nothing of the rugby. Even my sis-in-law who is English remarked "take it we got beat on Saturday then?". What sore losers. I can't be bothered with rugby but it is ALWAYS good to beat England at anything! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horse Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 Have they established the cause of death yet? world cup winner....legend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suspect Device Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 world cup winner....legend. diver, tried to cheat good honest scots lads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Das Root Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 world cup winner....legend. One trick pony posted missing at the w/e I noticed as well, all the breakfast news from London talked about all the other rugby games but did not mention the Scotland victory. I think they mentioned 1966 though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Winstone Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 Lets hope Scotland take note and punt Dan Parks well into touch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazio Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 Very good player who has hardly played and is off the pace, yet the England management can't see past him as a quick fix for their deeper lying problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertracoon Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 He probably disappeared up his own arse at some point just after half-time on Saturday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del1812 Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 Was brilliant to see him being taken off after being fairly useless for the majority of the game on saturday. GIRFUY has never been a more apt phrase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cigaro Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 Sets the world record and we pish on his parade! GIRFUY indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seats Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 Can't believe it made the friggin NATIONAL news that he has been dropped for this weekend...... oh, wait a minute.... yes I can! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedbump Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 One trick pony posted missing at the w/e Not to mention Paterson in the same breath;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loveofthegame Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 Top sportsman who was arguably the best at his sport in the world for a short period. Also a record points scorer, was the reason his country won a world cup AND is a top rolemodel to any budding sports star- you dont read about JW falling out of nightclubs at 3am or sleeping with the local prozzy etc etc. Not bad in my book. Delighted he was awful on Sat as it meant we won, a JW on top form probably would have been the difference in that poor game. Certainly wouldnt go as far as to say GIRFUY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I P Knightley Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 Top sportsman who was arguably the best at his sport in the world for a short period. Also a record points scorer, was the reason his country won a world cup AND is a top rolemodel to any budding sports star- you dont read about JW falling out of nightclubs at 3am or sleeping with the local prozzy etc etc. Not bad in my book. Delighted he was awful on Sat as it meant we won, a JW on top form probably would have been the difference in that poor game. Certainly wouldnt go as far as to say GIRFUY. All very fair comments but it's bloody funny that the national press's darling hasn't lived up to their super-high expectation. Wilkinson's not a one-trick pony; his tackling can be awesome as well as his kicking and, often, his line breaking running. However, the fact that the English press for 5 years have had him as the saviour of English rugby is ridiculous. They don't realise that rugby is, more than football, a team game when a poor performance from only one player can make the difference between winning and losing and the England team of 2003 was strong in every single position. So, GIRFUY to the English press and broadcast media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 All very fair comments but it's bloody funny that the national press's darling hasn't lived up to their super-high expectation. Wilkinson's not a one-trick pony; his tackling can be awesome as well as his kicking and, often, his line breaking running. However, the fact that the English press for 5 years have had him as the saviour of English rugby is ridiculous. They don't realise that rugby is, more than football, a team game when a poor performance from only one player can make the difference between winning and losing and the England team of 2003 was strong in every single position. So, GIRFUY to the English press and broadcast media. I sort of agree with what you say. Raw talent strangled by hype and expectation. England's problem is one of game plan around 1 player. It's always been about kicking for position, taking penalties and keeping the opposition pinned back by the boot. As a result they can't play rugby through the hands, they don't know how to. They would have been far less successful if a try was worth 7 points and a penalty 2. Wilkinson is the egg chasers Beckham. very good at a particular facet of the game but not all round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I P Knightley Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 I sort of agree with what you say. Raw talent strangled by hype and expectation. England's problem is one of game plan around 1 player. It's always been about kicking for position, taking penalties and keeping the opposition pinned back by the boot. As a result they can't play rugby through the hands, they don't know how to. They would have been far less successful if a try was worth 7 points and a penalty 2. Wilkinson is the egg chasers Beckham. very good at a particular facet of the game but not all round. Exactly what I had intended to write. The English media have done to Wilkinson exactly what they did to Beckham - heap a huge burden of expectation on him, ignoring the importance of those around him and, critically, exonerating or turning a blind eye to poor performances of his team-mates & coaching staff. Luckily, Scotland (in football or rugby) have had no such squeaky clean superstars on whom to pile this burden. Even with James McFadden &, to lesser extent, Chris Paterson the Scottish media are not as powerful and pervasive as the "British" media are regarding Wilkinson and Beckham so we're relatively safe. As for the 7 point try & 2 point penalty, it would be great, especially if readjustment meant that Neil Jenkins returned to the top points scorer position and our own Gavin Hastings for top World cup points scorer. (Not anti-Wilkinson; anti-having-an-English-record-holder!!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Say What Again Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 Delighted he was awful on Sat as it meant we won, a JW on top form probably would have been the difference in that poor game. Certainly wouldnt go as far as to say GIRFUY. Is it only the Scots that could manage to turn somebody becoming the world record points scorer in his sport into a 'GIRFUY'? Like him or not (and I don't particularly like him or rugby), nobody in the history of rugby has scored more international points than he has. Erm.... GIRFUY Wilkinson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Say What Again Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 England's problem is one of game plan around 1 player. It's always been about kicking for position, taking penalties and keeping the opposition pinned back by the boot. As a result they can't play rugby through the hands, they don't know how to. England tries this 6 Nations: 5 Scotland tries this 6 Nations: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 England tries this 6 Nations: 5 Scotland tries this 6 Nations: 1 Insightful stuff! We were discussing Wilkinson and Englands frailties in rugby terms. Scotlands problems are much worse than Englands and we could spend all day on them. We can't build a game plan on anyone. Hadden tried it on Dan Parks. It's like putting Pat Butcher into the Miss World contest. Never let that stand in the way of a cheap shot though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Say What Again Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 Insightful stuff! We were discussing Wilkinson and Englands frailties in rugby terms. And I was pointing out that for all their frailties they've scored 5 times as many tries as Scotland during this seasons 6 Nations - as well as getting to the final of the World Cup. And please don't even begin to suggest I'm in the 'Chelsea avatar brigade' or the like. I support Scotland at international sport and nobody else. Just a pity we can only dream of being as 'frail' as England. Never let that stand in the way of a cheap shot though Like this entire thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 And I was pointing out that for all their frailties they've scored 5 times as many tries as Scotland during this seasons 6 Nations - as well as getting to the final of the World Cup. And please don't even begin to suggest I'm in the 'Chelsea avatar brigade' or the like. I support Scotland at international sport and nobody else. Just a pity we can only dream of being as 'frail' as England. Like this entire thread? Bloody Chelsea avatar brigade!! I think its good old schadenfreude at work. and before you mention it, yes we are sh*t and we know we are! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Say What Again Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 I think its good old schadenfreude at work. Oh without a doubt. You can't beat it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibrahim Tall Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 England tries this 6 Nations: 5 Scotland tries this 6 Nations: 1 Scotlands pish, bringing them in to compare with England is like comparing Italy and Latvia in football. Why not compare them to a country of similar stature like France or Wales? Or, better yet, the worst team in the group, Italy, who they've only scored one try more than? England is still an over hyped one dimentional team, and reaching the World Cup final was a complete fluke before you mention it. They were lucky to even get out of the group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Say What Again Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 Scotlands pish, bringing them in to compare with England is like comparing Italy and Latvia in football. Why not compare them to a country of similar stature like France or Wales? Or, better yet, the worst team in the group, Italy, who they've only scored one try more than? So, using that logic, who should I compare Scotland to? Iraq? Madagascar? If Scotland are so pish they shouldn't even be compared with one of the teams in a 6 team tournament , should they even be allowed to take part? England is still an over hyped one dimentional team, and reaching the World Cup final was a complete fluke before you mention it. They were lucky to even get out of the group. Yet you mention comparing them to World Cup winners Italy if it was football? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibrahim Tall Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 So, using that logic, who should I compare Scotland to? Iraq? Madagascar? If Scotland are so pish they shouldn't even be compared with one of the teams in a 6 team tournament , should they even be allowed to take part? Yet you mention comparing them to World Cup winners Italy if it was football? Italy etc, Scotlands been poor bar the odd performance for years. Trying to make out England are World Class purely because they're better than a poor team is laughable. Then again i'm not sure why you even need to find a comparison for Scotland when your talking about England? 2nd point, what exactly are you talking about? Yet you mention comparing them to World Cup winners Italy if it was football? It was in reference to the gulf in class, would you have prefered if i'd said Germany/Malta? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Say What Again Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 Italy etc, Scotlands been poor bar the odd performance for years. Trying to make out England are World Class purely because they're better than a poor team is laughable. Where did I do that? I pointed out that they had scored 5 times as many tries as Scotland yet had been described as 1 dimensional and a kicking team (which they probably are). I just wondered what that made us. I've said on the thread I'm not particularly interested in rugby and in fact haven't watched a single 6 nations game this season, but what is laughable is trying to mock a world record holder in any sport while our 'heroes' are being compared to Malta. It was in reference to the gulf in class, would you have prefered if i'd said Germany/Malta? If that suits your agenda then please do. I doubt you actually think that the gulf in class is anywhere near the comparisons you're choosing to make. Germany could play Malta 100 times and win 99. How many would England win against Scotland? 60? 65? Scotland have beaten England 3 times since 2000 and the overall record in the Calcutta Cup stands at: England - 63 (54%) Scotland - 39 (34%) draw - 14 (12%) Doesn't look anything like Germany/Malta or Italy/Latvia to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HMFCjamieHMFC Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 Not to mention Paterson in the same breath;) no paterson can actual score tries Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedbump Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 no paterson can actual socre tries When was his last one???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazy_jambo_2006 Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 air play to jonny for coming back from injury after 3 years out. He has carried an average eng team. His try against us last yr (his comeback game) should've been scrapped, he was taken on Lions tour 2005, despite bein injured. Not since '03. Farce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HMFCjamieHMFC Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 Wilkinson 6 tries for England Paterson 22 tries for Scotland that shows it all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazy_jambo_2006 Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 Will also say that England have scored 5 tries this tournament. For a country "as good as" England, that is pathetic. They used to score 4 or 5 in one game. They are average. They fluked it to the World Cup Final - could say Wilkinson carried the team to W C Final. Yes, I know Scotland have only scored 1 try. But we are used to not scoring many tries. England usually score quite a few in 6 Nations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denny Crane Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 Wilkinson to be fair is not a one-trick pony as some are rash to suggest. He is - on his day - not a bad fly-half. However, he's no Barry John, Philippe Sella. Phil Bennett, John Rutherford, Dan Carter, Stuart Barnes, Tony Ward.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 I put Wilkinson in the same bracket as Rob Andrew. Kick, kick, kick, kick, kick, kick.....................boring as hell. He'd make alot more money playing as a special team kicker in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazio Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 Wilkinson to be fair is not a one-trick pony as some are rash to suggest. He is - on his day - not a bad fly-half. However, he's no Barry John, Philippe Sella. Phil Bennett, John Rutherford, Dan Carter, Stuart Barnes, Tony Ward.......... Just a shame that France insisted on giving Sella about 100 caps at centre really:rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denny Crane Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 Just a shame that France insisted on giving Sella about 100 caps at centre really:rolleyes: Like the great JPR Williams, Sella was adept at numbers 10-15. Given that the likes of Lescaboura and Camberabrero were world class fly-halves in their own right, to have Sella who could slot into any back line position was a luxury many coaches would kill for. His club Agen used him at both fly-half and centre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HMFCjamieHMFC Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 Wilkinson to be fair is not a one-trick pony as some are rash to suggest. He is - on his day - not a bad fly-half. However, he's no Barry John, Philippe Sella. Phil Bennett, John Rutherford, Dan Carter, Stuart Barnes, Tony Ward.......... Your right Wilkinson is a great player on his day but now realise on his kicking ability only Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julio Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 world cup winner....legend. Without doubt Horse. World cup winning legend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughesie27 Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 England tries this 6 Nations: 5 Scotland tries this 6 Nations: 1 Scotland's Victories against England 1 England's Victories against Scotland 0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julio Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 Scotland's Victories against England 1England's Victories against Scotland 0 England second in the table Scotland second bottom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Say What Again Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 Scotland's Victories against England 1England's Victories against Scotland 0 I refer you to Julios post on the last page. Oh wait - the table doesn't actually matter as long as we beat England eh? I was watching Soccer Saturday in the pub yesterday while most of the other people were watching the rugby down the front. Having just watched the pride of Scotland losing to the might of Italy to secure the wooden spoon, the pub took to roaring on every touch Ireland made (in a meaningless encounter). It's pretty pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julio Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 I refer you to Julios post on the last page. Oh wait - the table doesn't actually matter as long as we beat England eh? I was watching Soccer Saturday in the pub yesterday while most of the other people were watching the rugby down the front. Having just watched the pride of Scotland losing to the might of Italy to secure the wooden spoon, the pub took to roaring on every touch Ireland made (in a meaningless encounter). It's pretty pathetic. Jack as you say the table does not lie. But hey Scotland managed to beat England. Question is why they can raise their game for that but be woeful in four others. As you say truly pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughesie27 Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 Rousing a neighbouring nation (Ireland)= Pathetic (a)Rousing a neighbouring nation (England) = Pass the tissues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Therapist Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 Question is why they can raise their game for that but be woeful in four others. It's because of the small-minded anti-English racism that blights our country. Instead of looking at England as just another game, it becomes the be all and end all. We'll never progress as a nation or society until we get rid of this attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughesie27 Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 It isn't just another game though. It's the Calcutta(sp) Cup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Therapist Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 It isn't just another game though. It's the Calcutta(sp) Cup In the grand scheme of things, it's a mere bauble. Scotland need to focus on the whole 6 Nations campaign, not get hyped up by racism and think that beating England is the ultimate prize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 I refer you to Julios post on the last page. Oh wait - the table doesn't actually matter as long as we beat England eh? I was watching Soccer Saturday in the pub yesterday while most of the other people were watching the rugby down the front. Having just watched the pride of Scotland losing to the might of Italy to secure the wooden spoon, the pub took to roaring on every touch Ireland made (in a meaningless encounter). It's pretty pathetic. Italy finished bottom. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Say What Again Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 Italy finished bottom. Hope this helps. Yes it does. Thanks. I'd like to clear up my previous post. Scotland didn't finish bottom, Italy did on point difference. Italy (who I think) have won five 6 Nations game ever - 3 of them against Scotland. At least we beat England though because that's all that really matters isn't it? Could someone confirm? What's the 'official' stance if we don't beat England but still finish above them? Surely we still 'win' eh? I despair. Scotland fans mentality - Hibs fans mentality. Anyone fancy a game of spot the difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughesie27 Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 Yes it does. Thanks. I'd like to clear up my previous post. Scotland didn't finish bottom, Italy did on point difference. Italy (who I think) have won five 6 Nations game ever - 3 of them against Scotland. At least we beat England though because that's all that really matters isn't it? Could someone confirm? What's the 'official' stance if we don't beat England but still finish above them? Surely we still 'win' eh? I despair. Scotland fans mentality - Hibs fans mentality. Anyone fancy a game of spot the difference? Did you just throw yourself into that genralisation there or are you admitting you love it when Scotland do poorly and don't support them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julio Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 It's because of the small-minded anti-English racism that blights our country. Instead of looking at England as just another game, it becomes the be all and end all. We'll never progress as a nation or society until we get rid of this attitude. So very sad this kind of mentality. As you say until we get rid of this chippy attitude we will never progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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