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Psychiatric drugs


Maximus

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I'm wary of applying a catch all label, but broadly speaking I mean the various theories and interventions that don't belong to the medical model. They are (mainly) classified as humanistic forms of therapy, and include gestalt therapy, coherence therapy, somatic psychology, object relations theory, mindfulness-based cognitive therapy, and the various types of relaxation techniques training systems.

 

The more sophisticated schools of thought combine many of these approaches, and the most sophisticated is probably IBP (integrative body psychotherapy).

Well I certainly hope more is invested in non medical interventions well into the future. For the sake of the next generation at least. :sunny:
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I read an article recently about the over-prescription and reliance on prozac as a cure-all, wonder-drug in developed countries. It's a massively profitable drug and is used for the treatment of depression. I can see Maxi's point (I think this is what he means) that docs are too quick to prescribe something like prozac rather than look at what's actually causing the depression in the first place. We've supposed to have moved away from the traditional biomedical model onto the biospsychosocial model of medicine, but when it comes to mental illness, maybe that area of practice is lagging behind somewhat.
That's exactly it Cosa.

 

When dealing with someone who may be damaged psychologically/emotionally/physically you don't start by immediately trying to (metaphorically) look inside their head! You take into account every other factor first. This is what I mean about the core ideology of psychiatry putting the cart before the horse. It is such a outdated approach, literally fake science, driven by a theory the field of psychiatry has been struggling to pin proof on for decades. They decided on the answer first and have spent the rest of the time trying to create the equation.

 

The central theories on mental illness are deep routed in the eugenics bias of the pioneers of modern psychiatry who seen it as a good way to push sterilisation programs to remove social ills, which is a cop out from actually removing the social ills through positive social reform and this is partly the reason why it continues to exist in it's deeply flawed ways today. It is far easier to artificially modify people to fit a (sick) society than to modify society to fit the people.

 

Psychiatric medicine has really struggled to conclusively link mental illness to genetics or chemical imbalance, partly because they can't even prove a 'mental illness', as they see it, is really an illness in it's own right to start with. As it relies so heavily on this outdated model, mainstream psychiatry can't/won't push past this obsession with labels and pills.

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It has been recently proven that the best treatment for a moderate to severe psychotic illness is through a combination of cognitive-behavioural-therapy and antipsychotics/lithium/ECT (electro-convulsant therapy).
Seriously!!!? I would like to see that proof, concrete proof, not opinion or doctor's spiel.

 

Then again that word, treatment, is used. It's a sticky word that, I suppose you could class banging your head against a wall a sort of treatment for a migraine if it knocks you out. So much psychiatry is about claims, or that something 'reportadly' works as a treatment. ECT effective treatment? In who's eyes? I have yet to encountered any solid proof of any befefits (to the patient any way) from ECT, only doctors claiming it works. On the other hand there is certainly plenty of proof of the horrible damage it inflicts.

 

Then again, it was only 60 years ago that a lobotomy was considered an effective treatment.:jiggy:

Edited by Maximus
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....the core ideology of psychiatry putting the cart before the horse. It is such a outdated approach....

 

But I keep saying that the "core ideology" has moved on since the medicalisation days, through two waves of evolution and with a third in progress.

 

As we develop a greater understanding of how the mind works, the very notion of "mental illness" is itself becoming outdated - and that's happening among the medical profession as much as anywhere else.

 

That's what's really happening out there. I know you don't think this, but that doesn't alter the facts.

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Show me the light then Uly, I want to see this revolution.

 

The problem as I see it is that the old theories have been imprinted on our entire culture, the seed has been planted and I remain pretty unconvinced that enough is being done to undo the damage inflicted or at least prevent any more.

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To be honest, it's not something I know an awful lot about and for that reason I don't feel that I can praise it or condemn it to any great extent.

 

All I'll say is that I don't believe drugs should ever be prescribed without good reason.

 

If the condition can be controlled adequately with dietary or lifestyle changes then obviously that is the best course of action. In Schizophrenia and psychosis I don't believe it always can and that's why I support the prescription of certain drugs in some cases.

 

ADD/ADHD is of course very different and has varying severities, as with anything else. If it is having a damaging effect on the child despite these interventions, be it on their education or whatever, then maybe other approaches do need to be considered.

 

I can assure you though that when I graduate I would much prefer to tell a child to eat certain things or get more exercise, than to tell them to take a pill to make them 'normal'.

Can you at least provide a description of ADHD - a medical description, a cuase and what sort of treatments would be used in an extreme case? Edited by Maximus
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doctor jambo

Most psychiatric illness is a product of society, with some other factors thrown into the mix

Even schizophrenia is less likely to relapse if the patient has a stable supportive environment and low stress

Most anti depressants are prescribed to people because thier lives are crap, so they feel miserable (perfectly understandable and natural)

BUt why do the public seek for thier Dr's to make them feel better, then blame us when they get side effects

Good diet and exercise are as effective in mild to moderate depression as SSRI's, yet tell patients to eat better and exercise more and they will pick a pill every time

The public gets what it deserves I'm afraid- a quick fix becasue they cannoyt be bothered sorting the cause of their unhappines

And ADHD- fictional condition invented so people dont have to bother properly parenting thier children

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Most psychiatric illness is a product of society, with some other factors thrown into the mix

Even schizophrenia is less likely to relapse if the patient has a stable supportive environment and low stress

Most anti depressants are prescribed to people because thier lives are crap, so they feel miserable (perfectly understandable and natural)

BUt why do the public seek for thier Dr's to make them feel better, then blame us when they get side effects

Good diet and exercise are as effective in mild to moderate depression as SSRI's, yet tell patients to eat better and exercise more and they will pick a pill every time

The public gets what it deserves I'm afraid- a quick fix becasue they cannoyt be bothered sorting the cause of their unhappines

And ADHD- fictional condition invented so people dont have to bother properly parenting thier children

Well, exactly. Especially the last bit. :earmuffs:

 

Do you not feel the drug companies play a huge role in the problem though, as it is them who are using rather underhand tactics to push drugs which are not actually 'treatments' at all simply to make a quick buck? People in positions of trust (doctors and psychiatrists coerced by the drugs companies) have for a while been effectively selling the concept of 'mental illness' to the public and then offering the medical 'cure' for these illnesses.

Edited by Maximus
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I thought it was a joke at first but it appears there is actually a version of prozac for pets.

 

FFS!

 

I wish these sick *******s would create a drug that supressed greed and then they could feed it to themselves and do the world a real favour for once.

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Show me the light then Uly, I want to see this revolution.

 

Go Google, or pick up the phone book. Either way, you'll see for yourself.

 

Except it probably won't work in your case, because of your need to believe in conspiracies.

 

But if it helps you, there's now a school of thought that says that the "non-medical" approach to emotional and psychological trauma is part of the problem, and is only being perpetuated because of a conspiracy among practitioners.

 

Isn't that great? :thumb:

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Go Google, or pick up the phone book. Either way, you'll see for yourself.

 

Except it probably won't work in your case, because of your need to believe in conspiracies.

 

But if it helps you, there's now a school of thought that says that the "non-medical" approach to emotional and psychological trauma is part of the problem, and is only being perpetuated because of a conspiracy among practitioners.

 

Isn't that great? :thumb:

I was actually being serious in that post Uly :7:
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I was actually being serious in that post Uly :7:

 

If you say so. I suppose things vary across different countries, but in Ireland people who specialise in what are termed mental illnesses prefer a humanistic rather than medical approach. However, GPs tend to take a medical approach, and they are the ones who prescribe most of the meds.

 

Generally speaking, the DSM-IV approach is much less favoured in Europe than it is in the US. On that basis, it is likely that GPs rather than specialists are prescribing meds in European countries.

 

Some may regard that as a conspiracy by "Big Pharm", but it is more likely that the explanation lies in the fact that GPs are not specialists in emotional and psychological dysfunction.

 

Meanwhile, there are alternatives to the medical approach. Maybe they work better, maybe they don't. But they do exist and many people are using them. However they are labour-intensive, time-consuming and expensive. Because of this, they are only available to people who can afford them. Governments won't fund them, because it is a lot cheaper to fund the prescriptions being written by the GPs.

 

There are also arguments that the humanistic models don't work, and that therapists have a vested interest in "failure" because they keep collecting fees from clients for longer. I don't know to what extent those arguments stack up, but in any case my point is that the alternatives to meds may well be as flawed as the drugs.

 

My fundamental point is this. Keep it complicated. ;) Conspiracy theories are wonderfully simple, but life is usually a lot more complex than that.

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Perhaps, in a great deal of cases, the answer lies with the person themselves? Taking more responsibility might be the answer? Taking care of ourselves and each other

2006-08-15T025423Z_01_NOOTR_RTRIDSP_2_OUKEN-UK-LEISURE-DANCING.jpg

 

In the study of other social animals, erratic behaviours that might be interpreted as 'insanity' in humans are taken for what they are. Repetitive patterns of behaviour that are responses, or in other cases they are reactions to sudden changes in environmental factors. In most cases these patterns can be broken by changing the situation around the animal, removing or altering what is causing the problem.

 

Maybe the problem with human psychology is that we tend to make things too complicated for ourselves, maybe it is the lives we are living that are really driving us 'insane' and perhaps science is thinking too far 'out of the box' for it's own good? Nature is complex but it works when it is allowed to do it's thing and it works very well (and has done since the dawn of time), humanity as a whole seems to have a big problem accepting this so when things go awry we convince ourselves that that it is nature not human logic that is flawed and we then try to be more complex or somehow superior to nature. Messing with nature always comes back to spank us on the arse in some way or another.

 

That's why I tend to believe more in the theories that suggest most if not all our problems with mental wellbeing are in some way self inflicted. Either directly, through our own patterns of thought or indirectly through social/environmental factors. Perhaps even as the result of something that goes directly against what nature intended, like a major dietary change that has messed up how our body functions.

 

There is a field called Orthomolecular Psychiatry that promotes varying the levels of substances normally present in the body to maximise mental functioning and there are new theories emerging that link mental disfunction to problems with the digestive tract (or food allergies/intolerance) or medical conditions.

 

It's complicated right enough.

Edited by Maximus
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There is a field called Orthomolecular Psychiatry that promotes varying the levels of substances normally present in the body to maximise mental functioning and there are new theories emerging that link mental disfunction to problems with the digestive tract (or food allergies/intolerance) or medical conditions.

 

 

It was devised around the same time as the medical school of psychiatry, and to be honest seems to make very little sense indeed. It's a branch of orthomolecular medicine, which despite almost 60 years of research has no evidence to support its claims. If it was going to work it would have worked by now, and the fundamental principles on which it is based seem decidedly irrational.

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  • 12 years later...

I just started on a SSRI medication, It's ****ing great, Apart from the yawning the side effects have been beneficial. My head doesn't feel like it's going 1000mph now and my mood is more stable. I would recommend them if your struggling.

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otterjohn

An interesting read this thread and once more highlights how much more research is needing done on mental health.Its something ive witnessed with relatives and its an awful illness.Ive lost count how many ops ive need due to Rheumatoid disease but would far rather put up with pain than have to go through the hell of that disease.My heart goes out to everyone suffering from it.

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Savage Vince
On 11/03/2009 at 16:55, Maximus said:

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][/url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73SRn1gdAdM

 

Does anyone actually disagree that the use of these drugs on children should be stopped outright immediately?

 

They are gateway drugs. In fact SSRIs are comparable to speed and cocaine as they are all reuptake inhibitors.

 

There is a tidal wave of shit heading society's way after a generation of very young children being doped up on the likes of Ritalin. It was too easy. Families pushed for it, many quite happy to collect the DLA payments and schools were happy for it to happen as it meant they could apply for extra funding for PSAs and ASN workers. 

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John Findlay
14 hours ago, Greedy Jambo said:

I've had some psychedelic drugs in the past.

Judging by what you post in the Terrace, you are still very much taking them.

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rudi must stay
15 hours ago, Greedy Jambo said:

I've had some psychedelic drugs in the past.

 

Be careful of the psychosis. Two moons in the sky etc 

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Les Izemore

Anyone that thinks smoking weed is harmless and actually beneficial may be correct, for them and them alone. 
 

However, a good mate of mine ended up sectioned, with good cause, as he had underlying mental issues which the weed magnified to almost catastrophic levels and was instrumental in making his low level mental illness almost fatal. Not to him either. 
 

I’m in no way against weed, but I defo saw first hand how the effects of it allowed him to turn his head in a horrible way. 
 

As I said, it’s not for everyone.  

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