2020/21 accounts/AGM - shareholders presentation/Q&A announced ( updated )

[RobNox]

While it is clear from these accounts that we relied on beneficiaries stepping up to plug the gap between revenues and outgoings in what was an exceptional set of circumstances, it is worth putting things into some context.

 

Our turnover from operations, excluding any one-off items was £6.4m.  That was clearly hugely impacted by the combination of playing in an empty stadium, and playing a curtailed season in the Championship.

 

In the 2020 accounts the equivalent figure was £11.5m (this excludes c £750k in furlough payments, which is why the 2020 figure in the 2021 accounts shows as c £12.3m).  The 2020 numbers were also impacted by Covid, due to the early curtailment of the season.

 

We have to go back to the 2019 accounts to see a turnover figure for a 'normal' season in the Premiership.  Our turnover from operations that season was £15m.  So it is not unreasonable to expect that we should see an increase in turnover of at least £9m during the current season. 

 

We obviously (or rather hopefully!) won't be getting any exceptional Covid- related payments, and it's likely our staff and operating costs will also increase, but even without receiving anything from any beneficiaries other than FOH, we could increase our cost base and still comfortably break even.

[Niemi’s gloves]

45 minutes ago, Tommy Brown said:

 

Just to clarify, the £500k government grant included in “turnover” is not the £500k from benefactor(s) other than James Anderson. That latter money is included in “donations” rather than “turnover”.  In other words, we have one or more established benefactors other than JA who contributed £500k - a pretty generous amount by normal standards.

[Vlad Magic]

Is the playing field even yet?

Asking for a friend.

 

[tian447]

 

The bait has been taken

 

 

[combo74]

Am I right in saying that some of the benefactors contributions are in return for carrying charities on our tops instead of a standard sponsorship deal or is this covered under another contribution on the accounts?

 

Obviously other teams negotiate more traditional 7 figure sponsorship deals, but we’ve gone down another route.

[Getintaethem]

10 minutes ago, RobNox said:

While it is clear from these accounts that we relied on beneficiaries stepping up to plug the gap between revenues and outgoings in what was an exceptional set of circumstances, it is worth putting things into some context.

 

Our turnover from operations, excluding any one-off items was £6.4m.  That was clearly hugely impacted by the combination of playing in an empty stadium, and playing a curtailed season in the Championship.

 

In the 2020 accounts the equivalent figure was £11.5m (this excludes c £750k in furlough payments, which is why the 2020 figure in the 2021 accounts shows as c £12.3m).  The 2020 numbers were also impacted by Covid, due to the early curtailment of the season.

 

We have to go back to the 2019 accounts to see a turnover figure for a 'normal' season in the Premiership.  Our turnover from operations that season was £15m.  So it is not unreasonable to expect that we should see an increase in turnover of at least £9m during the current season. 

 

We obviously (or rather hopefully!) won't be getting any exceptional Covid- related payments, and it's likely our staff and operating costs will also increase, but even without receiving anything from any beneficiaries other than FOH, we could increase our cost base and still comfortably break even.

We’ll definitely see a large increase in turnover, but I think we’ll still be feeling the financial effects of Covid for another couple of years.  Success on the pitch and competing in Europe could eventually see our turnover get up to £20m though. If we can achieve that we’d open up a significant financial gap on our rivals and be a lot closer to the Glasgow clubs.  I think we have the infrastructure in place to achieve that now.

[fabienleclerq]

1 hour ago, AlphonseCapone said:

Can I ask a daft question and not be called a hobo, thanks. Are we operating at a loss without James Anderson or is it more a case that last year was an expectional year due to Covid and in general we'd expect to turn a profit without benefactor addition? 

 

I was thinking similar, I suppose we do have a benefactor though so it's a bit redundant. We couldn't spend it if we didn't have it. 

 

 

[SUTOL]

1 minute ago, combo74 said:

Am I right in saying that some of the benefactors contributions are in return for carrying charities on our tops instead of a standard sponsorship deal or is this covered under another contribution on the accounts?

 

Obviously other teams negotiate more traditional 7 figure sponsorship deals, but we’ve gone down another route.

 

I think that was the case with Save the Children, but not with MND Scotland. DELL Technologies are funding that. AFAIK

 

Not sure how it was shown in the accounts though. 

[hughesie27]

I think I might have to update my signature for the first time in a very long time.

 

 

Mickey Weir 09:35 PM Today

Give it time and HSL will overtake their direct debit scheme and we will continue to grow while they go under.

[Rudy T]

We also must have the most valuable squad in the league outside the OF. Soapy, Beni, Devlin, Boyce, Mackay and Kingsley would fetch us about £12mil. Craig Gordon is priceless!

[Pivo]

23 minutes ago, ginger jambo98 said:

They owed LBG over £8m, a 30p in the £ deal would have meant a split of £2.5m to uncle Tommy and £5.5m of bad debt write off in the bank. Sounds about right from memory.

 

cheeturz etc etc

Don’t forget that LBG were owned by the Gov/Taxpayer at the time so they effectively did the tax payer out of millions due to an unpaid debt. Something they throw at us regularly whilst conveniently forgetting the facts above.

[Rudy T]

9 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

I think I might have to update my signature for the first time in a very long time.

 

 

Mickey Weir 09:35 PM Today

Give it time and HSL will overtake their direct debit scheme and we will continue to grow while they go under.

If he’s not a Hearts fan he needs checked into the Royal Ed pronto!

[heartsfc_fan]

9 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

I think I might have to update my signature for the first time in a very long time.

 

 

Mickey Weir 09:35 PM Today

Give it time and HSL will overtake their direct debit scheme and we will continue to grow while they go under.

[RobNox]

8 minutes ago, Getintaethem said:

We’ll definitely see a large increase in turnover, but I think we’ll still be feeling the financial effects of Covid for another couple of years.  Success on the pitch and competing in Europe could eventually see our turnover get up to £20m though. If we can achieve that we’d open up a significant financial gap on our rivals and be a lot closer to the Glasgow clubs.  I think we have the infrastructure in place to achieve that now.

That's a reasonable view, I was also not taking into account that we did suffer from reduced attendances in the early part of this season during the BetFred games, then the home game against Celtic which would ordinarily have been a full house.

 

Even then, if we take last season's contributions from other benefactors as being a one-off increase to address the impacts of Covid, we could still expect at least £4m additional money coming in between FOH and benefactors over an above what we generate from ongoing operations.  That's a big advantage to have if we use the money wisely, and the signs are that we are now beginning to do so.

[RobNox]

11 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

I think I might have to update my signature for the first time in a very long time.

 

 

Mickey Weir 09:35 PM Today

Give it time and HSL will overtake their direct debit scheme and we will continue to grow while they go under.

Surely that's a wind up?  What HSL raises in a week, FOH raises in a day, and rather than our pledges reducing, they are increasing.

[tian447]

12 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

I think I might have to update my signature for the first time in a very long time.

 

 

Mickey Weir 09:35 PM Today

Give it time and HSL will overtake their direct debit scheme and we will continue to grow while they go under.

 

Give it time. 

 

With the current rate of expansion, taking into account inflation, the volatile stockmarket, cryptocurrency and the blockchain, carry the 2, enhancing the pattern buffers, inverting the tachyon matrix, and they should be due to overtake us sometime roughly after the heat death of the universe. 

 

They are deluded as ****

 

[TheBigO]

3 minutes ago, RobNox said:

That's a reasonable view, I was also not taking into account that we did suffer from reduced attendances in the early part of this season during the BetFred games, then the home game against Celtic which would ordinarily have been a full house.

 

Even then, if we take last season's contributions from other benefactors as being a one-off increase to address the impacts of Covid, we could still expect at least £4m additional money coming in between FOH and benefactors over an above what we generate from ongoing operations.  That's a big advantage to have if we use the money wisely, and the signs are that we are now beginning to do so.

Plus bag (min) 3rd this season guarantees £3m minimum from Europe next season.

 

There's gold in them thar hills

[Bazzas right boot]

23 minutes ago, Getintaethem said:

We’ll definitely see a large increase in turnover, but I think we’ll still be feeling the financial effects of Covid for another couple of years.  Success on the pitch and competing in Europe could eventually see our turnover get up to £20m though. If we can achieve that we’d open up a significant financial gap on our rivals and be a lot closer to the Glasgow clubs.  I think we have the infrastructure in place to achieve that now.

 

 

Has to be a target. 

 

It's a, realistic and ambitious one. 

 

 

[Jambo 4 Ever]

5 hours ago, Poseidon said:

£6.385m in donations.. We are minted 😂

What happens when the benefactors decide they no longer want to donate - then what 

 

not all that impressive as it’s not sustainable long term 

[Section Q]

14 hours ago, Coco said:

The support from FoH is now flowing to the club's finances.

 

But it is dwarfed by the incredible cash coming in from James Anderson.  No individual in the club's history can ever have put in more.

I think Budge may have contributed some too.....!

[SUTOL]

2 minutes ago, Jambo 4 Ever said:

What happens when the benefactors decide they no longer want to donate - then what 

 

not all that impressive as it’s not sustainable long term 

 

If, or when, that happens we will operate as appropriate. 

 

i.e. spend what we can afford to, as we currently do.

[Jambo 4 Ever]

Just now, SUTOL said:

 

If, or when, that happens we will operate as appropriate. 

 

i.e. spend what we can afford to, as we currently do.

Yes but how wouldn’t we reduce our deficit by £5m as year straight away - won’t be that easy 

[Jambo 4 Ever]

3 minutes ago, Section Q said:

I think Budge may have contributed some too.....!

That won’t last forever either 

[Poseidon]

3 minutes ago, Jambo 4 Ever said:

What happens when the benefactors decide they no longer want to donate - then what 

 

not all that impressive as it’s not sustainable long term 

Was said with tongue firmly in cheek. 

 

But our revenue was down £4.6m from demotion/covid and we got almost exactly that from benefactors. We're not far away from being self sufficient 

[InternationalJambo]

5 minutes ago, Jambo 4 Ever said:

What happens when the benefactors decide they no longer want to donate - then what 

 

not all that impressive as it’s not sustainable long term 

Does anymore need said?

[RobNox]

4 minutes ago, TheBigO said:

Plus bag (min) 3rd this season guarantees £3m minimum from Europe next season.

 

There's gold in them thar hills

3rd place only guarantees that if one of the top 2 win the SC, otherwise the SC winners will take that spot.  Of course, we might win the SC, which would be nice.

[SUTOL]

2 minutes ago, Jambo 4 Ever said:

Yes but how wouldn’t we reduce our deficit by £5m as year straight away - won’t be that easy 

 

Sorry mate, I don't know what that means. 

[Jambo 4 Ever]

3 hours ago, stuart500 said:

Did Ann Budge not previously confirm the benefactors had promised support for 5 years? Can't remember when she said that but we could be benefitting for at least another 3 years.

 

A huge thank you from me for this and let's hope we can build a club and teams worthy of our glorious name for generations to come.

What do we do when that stops though?

[Section Q]

10 hours ago, Jambo 4 Ever said:

That won’t last forever either 

I think the club will operate within it's means in this new era of accountability and fan ownership. 

[Jambo 4 Ever]

2 minutes ago, SUTOL said:

 

Sorry mate, I don't know what that means. 

I mean how do we reduced spending etc / increase revenue to make up for the amount the benefactors are paying in?

[InternationalJambo]

1 minute ago, Jambo 4 Ever said:

I mean how do we reduced spending etc / increase revenue to make up for the amount the benefactors are paying in?

Do you not see the club making up the extra £5m/season in revenue due to competing in Europe over the next 4 years?

[Jambo 4 Ever]

2 hours ago, AlphonseCapone said:

Can I ask a daft question and not be called a hobo, thanks. Are we operating at a loss without James Anderson or is it more a case that last year was an expectional year due to Covid and in general we'd expect to turn a profit without benefactor addition? 

I’ve said the same sort of thing 

[Jambo 4 Ever]

Just now, InternationalJambo said:

Do you not see the club making up the extra £5m/season in revenue due to competing in Europe over the next 4 years?

If we don’t qualify then what 

[Poseidon]

3 minutes ago, Jambo 4 Ever said:

I mean how do we reduced spending etc / increase revenue to make up for the amount the benefactors are paying in?

Our revenue this season will probably be about  £5m+ more than last for a start

Edited November 16, 2021 by Poseidon

[RobNox]

1 minute ago, Jambo 4 Ever said:

Yes but how wouldn’t we reduce our deficit by £5m as year straight away - won’t be that easy 

Our deficit won't be £5m going forward, last year was an exceptional situation.  As I already mentioned above, in our last season in an uninterrupted Premiership, our turnover from ongoing operations (excluding any donations or other exceptional items) was £15m, compared to £6.4m last season.

 

The benefactors stepped up their donations to help cover last season, I wouldn't expect them to put as much money in this season, or going forward.   We can comfortably get by on what we would expect to generate in a 'normal' season, supplemented by FOH funds.  Anything the benefactors add to the kitty should be viewed as a bonus.

[InternationalJambo]

2 minutes ago, Jambo 4 Ever said:

If we don’t qualify then what 

Then our benefactors will cover the £5m loss for that season. 

Edited November 16, 2021 by InternationalJambo

[SUTOL]

Just now, Jambo 4 Ever said:

I mean how do we reduced spending etc / increase revenue to make up for the amount the benefactors are paying in?

 

Reduce spending by maybe not signing a couple of players. Or not offering increases to players whose contracts might be running out. Maybe arrange commercial finance for some capital projects, things like that.

 

Hopefully in a couple of years we will be in a more financially secure place than we have been previously with FoH contributions etc. So good performance on the pitch and relative success should help increase income, whether through European competition or more regular domestic success. 

 

 

[scott herbertson]

19 minutes ago, TheBigO said:

Plus bag (min) 3rd this season guarantees £3m minimum from Europe next season.

 

There's gold in them thar hills

 

 

Perhaps a song for Scott Wilson to play before the St Mirren game - a song about not giving up when times are tough

 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

6 minutes ago, Jambo 4 Ever said:

I mean how do we reduced spending etc / increase revenue to make up for the amount the benefactors are paying in?

 

 

Are You at it? 

 

We were in the championship and had no crowds. 

 

Our revenue will be up by at least £5m this season, imo more Likley £7-£8m when you factor in TV and prize money. 

 

Our revenue crashed v a normal ish season. 

 

If we get in Europe you can add in more for next season. 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 16, 2021 by Smith's right boot

[davemclaren]

1 minute ago, scott herbertson said:

 

 

Perhaps a song for Scott Wilson to play before the St Mirren game - a song about not giving up when times are tough

 

 

Can’t beat a bit of Ron. Not the Hibs one of course. 

[Jambo 4 Ever]

2 minutes ago, InternationalJambo said:

Then our benefactors will cover the £5m loss for that season. 

We can’t rely on that though - it’s not right or sensible to assume that 

[Bazzas right boot]

1 minute ago, SUTOL said:

 

Reduce spending by maybe not signing a couple of players. Or not offering increases to players whose contracts might be running out. Maybe arrange commercial finance for some capital projects, things like that.

 

Hopefully in a couple of years we will be in a more financially secure place than we have been previously with FoH contributions etc. So good performance on the pitch and relative success should help increase income, whether through European competition or more regular domestic success. 

 

 

 

It's not that complicated, our revenue crashed due to covid and demotion to the championship. 

 

It will jump up massively this season. 

[Jambo 4 Ever]

3 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

Are You at it? 

 

We were in the championship and had no crowds. 

 

Our revenue will be up by at least £5m this season, imo more Likley £7-£8m when you factor in TV and prize money. 

 

Our revenue crashed v a normal ish season. 

 

If we get in Europe you can add in more for next season. 

 

 

 

 

What was the excuse for the years before championship - we’ve had benefactors putting money in for a few years now 

[RobNox]

Just now, Smith's right boot said:

 

It's not that complicated, our revenue crashed due to covid and demotion to the championship. 

 

It will jump up massively this season. 

I'm surprised at how many don't seem to grasp that!

[stuart500]

4 minutes ago, Jambo 4 Ever said:

What do we do when that stops though?

The budgets set by the club will not assume any voluntary donations. Just like we tend to err conservatively on how we will perform in league and cup competitions. 

 

As explained by others we will always live within our means within normal seasons. 

 

It is also to be hoped that benefactor money is used to entice more fans into the FoH and the regular no of contributors increases substantially.

 

[Bazzas right boot]

3 minutes ago, Jambo 4 Ever said:

What was the excuse for the years before championship - we’ve had benefactors putting money in for a few years now 

 

 

We built a ****ing £20m stand, spent millions on in-frustracture and recovered from admin. 

 

Did you miss that? 

 

For the First time ever I think you are trolling and not just a daftie. 

 

Edited November 16, 2021 by Smith's right boot

[scott herbertson]

2 minutes ago, Jambo 4 Ever said:

What was the excuse for the years before championship - we’ve had benefactors putting money in for a few years now 

 

 

No idea. Maybe we put some money into maintaining the ground or something like that?

[RobNox]

Just now, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

We built a ****ing £20m stand, spent millions on in frustracture and recovered from admin. 

 

Did you miss that? 

 

For the First time ever I think you are trolling and not just a daftie. 

 

Took you a while SRB, but you got there in the end.  Better better late than never!

[Jambo 4 Ever]

4 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

We built a ****ing £20m stand, spent millions on in-frustracture and recovered from admin. 

 

Did you miss that? 

 

For the First time ever I think you are trolling and not just a daftie. 

 

I’m allowed to ask the questions mate 

[Sid]

1 minute ago, RobNox said:

I'm surprised at how many don't seem to grasp that!

 

2 minutes ago, Jambo 4 Ever said:

What was the excuse for the years before championship - we’ve had benefactors putting money in for a few years now 

Hobo 4 ever. 
it’s pretty simple. We do really well, we make loads of money and spend it. 
we don’t do so well. Our rich benefactors bail us out and have committed to do this for years to come. 
whereas you Hobos have what little money you make nicked by your mean owners and you have no one to bail you out. Your fan scheme doesn’t generate enough money to cover the postage of our thank you letters to our 8500 legends supporting the club.