Selkirkhmfc1874 Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 The way we start games gives teams a chance to settle into the game!! We always start slow , passing ball sideways, backwards and slow as milk turning , what we need in my opinion is to start aggressively pushing teams back and win our battles because there's no doubt we've got better players but for that to make difference they've got to win undividual battles first but we ain't doing that from the start and also the manager needs to set up the team to push teams back and attack attack attack and let the players off the leash to entertain becaise watching us is like watching paint dry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatlock Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 When the rules changed about the kick off no longer having to be forward, it played into our negative mindset by ensuring that we give the defence the ball first to ‘get the feel’ of the ball. Did nobody explain that it wasn’t compulsory to do so?. At least we used to launch the ball long and wide at kick off and force the team to move forward as a team thereby starting games on the front foot. The defending team immediately on back foot and that’s how we can at least try and gain an early initiative. It’s still worth a try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 It's a good point. We just weren't at the races. We have done it in games but generally it's like they haven't considered the environment. That is the opposition, the conditions and the pitch, all of which were difficult last night and were difficult against Queen of the South. Is it complacency with the big lead? But it is a concern. I think that's the source of Craig Gordon's annoyance in his post match interview because he can see it all. We did drag it back a bit. I think McEneff and Mackay-Steven tried to lift things. Boyce is always on step. But overall the need to show more energy but crucially perform because early on the passing and control was woeful. But as I said they should have realised the pitch was terrible and adapted to it. More energy, get the ball forward quicker. Lots to improve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howdy Doody Jambo Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 Think if Robbie could take a page out of the George Burley book of tactics and go high tempo for the first 20 minutes we have enough in the squad to blow the opposition away in the championship Is it just the attitude from players, no fans in the stadiums or Neilsons instructions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 13 hours ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said: The way we start games gives teams a chance to settle into the game!! We always start slow , passing ball sideways, backwards and slow as milk turning , what we need in my opinion is to start aggressively pushing teams back and win our battles because there's no doubt we've got better players but for that to make difference they've got to win undividual battles first but we ain't doing that from the start and also the manager needs to set up the team to push teams back and attack attack attack and let the players off the leash to entertain becaise watching us is like watching paint dry. Wasn’t it you who was on here last week telling everyone to stop moaning? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan_R Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 We started pretty good against Morton. First ten looked lively but just faded Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Beni of Gorgie Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 More McEneffs and we will be able to play up tempo. Walker Naismith debate is a moot point. Neither play with high energy. Then Halliday just seems to wander about before finding an altercation somewhere along the way to justify his existence as destroyer. Irving is a stroller, not that player either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hearts1975 Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 19 hours ago, Ma Roon said: Think if Robbie could take a page out of the George Burley book of tactics and go high tempo for the first 20 minutes we have enough in the squad to blow the opposition away in the championship Is it just the attitude from players, no fans in the stadiums or Neilsons instructions Combination of all 3 more than likely. More impact from the tactics though. Correct - with Burley we dragged teams (who sat in all the time and behind the ball) with fast tempo passing, direct and off the ball movement We had better players back then, but still no reason to not set up, and have a go, and play this way. We seem to spend the first twenty minutes, playing cagey, and sussing out the opposition even although we know exactly what their own limitations are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambopilms Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 How many times have we gone behind this season, and then start to play ( or try to ). Can't be good stats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 On 27/02/2021 at 09:58, Tatlock said: When the rules changed about the kick off no longer having to be forward, it played into our negative mindset by ensuring that we give the defence the ball first to ‘get the feel’ of the ball. Did nobody explain that it wasn’t compulsory to do so?. At least we used to launch the ball long and wide at kick off and force the team to move forward as a team thereby starting games on the front foot. The defending team immediately on back foot and that’s how we can at least try and gain an early initiative. It’s still worth a try. Gordon touched the ball from our kickoff! Launch it left corner with snow on it. Ball should arrive with our 6ft 4 striker’s elbow to rightback’s cheekbone. game on.! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texaco Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 We're not an unknown in this league anymore and the opposition rarely now gives us respect by defending deep at the start of games. Team coaches watch us on TV and are learning that closing us down quickly from the start is their best tactic to unsettle us and mabee nip a goal. Answer - It's quite simple, fight fire with fire. It's not so much what we do with the ball at the start of the game it's more what we do without it. Close down with pace man on man without lunging in. Double up tempory on any playmaker early on. It's pure effort and concentration. If we win the battle to ‘get in their face’ we’ll start winning games again at a canter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbo-Jambo Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 2 hours ago, Hearts1975 said: Combination of all 3 more than likely. More impact from the tactics though. Correct - with Burley we dragged teams (who sat in all the time and behind the ball) with fast tempo passing, direct and off the ball movement We had better players back then, but still no reason to not set up, and have a go, and play this way. We seem to spend the first twenty minutes, playing cagey, and sussing out the opposition even although we know exactly what their own limitations are. Baffling why Neilson doesn't does this. Is he scared of Alloa, Arbroath and the Mortons of this world? He is so negative it gives these teams hope when they should be filled with trepidation when they face us. That's why we will go nowhere with him in charge. All imo of course. To play like that four games in a row in this league cements the fact all is not well at the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nookie Bear Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 I think we actually start games quite strongly. It’s what happens if we don’t score in those 10/15 mins that’s the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nookie Bear Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 On 27/02/2021 at 09:38, Selkirkhmfc1874 said: The way we start games gives teams a chance to settle into the game!! We always start slow , passing ball sideways, backwards and slow as milk turning , what we need in my opinion is to start aggressively pushing teams back and win our battles because there's no doubt we've got better players but for that to make difference they've got to win undividual battles first but we ain't doing that from the start and also the manager needs to set up the team to push teams back and attack attack attack and let the players off the leash to entertain becaise watching us is like watching paint dry. What happened to “Calm Down”, give the management time to work on it and get it right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hearts1975 Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 51 minutes ago, Robbo-Jambo said: Baffling why Neilson doesn't does this. Is he scared of Alloa, Arbroath and the Mortons of this world? He is so negative it gives these teams hope when they should be filled with trepidation when they face us. That's why we will go nowhere with him in charge. All imo of course. To play like that four games in a row in this league cements the fact all is not well at the club. It’s a rigid system he uses. Doesn’t allow for any fluidity. Example being, if you watch, the full backs won’t overlap or go past the wingers and use the extra man to get in behind. When we do get into the box there are almost always 3 defenders and sometimes just our one striker. (Apart from the odd occasion) No one else leaves their position or gets into pockets of space. We never get in behind or try and get 2 men on their one player to get in behind them. we never try and drag their players out of position and when players do take their man on, they end up running into walls rather than open them up. If teams sit in and players run, then there isn’t enough room. Players moving and moving out of position to try and drag the opposition out, is what will do it. Watch any re-runs or clips when Burley was in charge. For ever goal you will almost always see players running off of each other and coming in at various different positions to attack the ball. Under Neilson it’s Predictable rather than using the element of surprise. All IMo of course Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbo-Jambo Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 5 minutes ago, Hearts1975 said: It’s a rigid system he uses. Doesn’t allow for any fluidity. Example being, if you watch, the full backs won’t overlap or go past the wingers and use the extra man to get in behind. When we do get into the box there are almost always 3 defenders and sometimes just our one striker. (Apart from the odd occasion) No one else leaves their position or gets into pockets of space. We never get in behind or try and get 2 men on their one player to get in behind them. we never try and drag their players out of position and when players do take their man on, they end up running into walls rather than open them up. If teams sit in and players run, then there isn’t enough room. Players moving and moving out of position to try and drag the opposition out, is what will do it. Watch any re-runs or clips when Burley was in charge. For ever goal you will almost always see players running off of each other and coming in at various different positions to attack the ball. Under Neilson it’s Predictable rather than using the element of surprise. All IMo of course Good description, especially when you think back to the Burley days. The big question is why do you need such a rigid system that never changes against teams that to be blunt are really pretty ****. We pay the teams in this league far too much respect when it should be them that are worried about us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gambo Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 Does not seem any desire to change this. Happy to plod along taking our time to feel our way into the game and suss out our opponents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selkirkhmfc1874 Posted February 28, 2021 Author Share Posted February 28, 2021 55 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said: What happened to “Calm Down”, give the management time to work on it and get it right? I made point without shouting bin this one and bin that one ! Stand by calm down to some of the over the top criticism at times Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nookie Bear Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 9 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said: I made point without shouting bin this one and bin that one ! Stand by calm down to some of the over the top criticism at times 👍🏻 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super_Hans Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 1 hour ago, Nookie Bear said: I think we actually start games quite strongly. It’s what happens if we don’t score in those 10/15 mins that’s the problem. We haven't scored in the first 30 minutes of an away league match since St Johnstone on the 1st February 2020. That was a 27th min goal after we went behind. It was also the only goal scored in the first 30 mins in an away match during the entire 19/20 season. Truly horrendous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nookie Bear Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 17 minutes ago, Super_Hans said: We haven't scored in the first 30 minutes of an away league match since St Johnstone on the 1st February 2020. That was a 27th min goal after we went behind. It was also the only goal scored in the first 30 mins in an away match during the entire 19/20 season. Truly horrendous. Yes, we don't score but i do see that we try to start on the front foot. The problem for me is that we seem to lose momentum or run out of ideas if we don't score or go a goal down. When we went behind on Friday at ICT we inexplicably slowed right down and started passing the ball to death in our own half - it was only when we went more direct, or moved the ball forward quicker, that we posed a threat. That led to our goal. And then we came out for the second half with that possession-based mentality that is easy to defend against. I actually don't know what to make of us in front of goal this season. The stats show we have loads of shots on goal, but very few on target, but we have scored quite a few as well so we are converting them when we create them. That's my confused way of saying that i have never seen a team create as many half chances as we have this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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