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Agentjambo

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4 hours ago, BarneyBattles said:

 

Spot on. Brian Clough was asked how was he able to build such good teams 'because I sign good players....' he replied.

I remember reading an article in 4-4-2 magazine where they interviewed managers around Europe and in the UK, Fergie, Wenger among may others, and it was specifically about their thoughts on what makes a successful team. Pretty much every manager said 90% of the time its the players you pick/sign/promote. The remaining 10% was everything else.

 

But we live in a tactics, strategy obsessed world now in football. Every manager wants to be the genius. 

 

Football isn`t easy and there`s many challenges and scenarios to deal with but i think having an eye for a player, knowing how to build a team and honing them on a high workrate gives you the base. I`m not sure football works that way now though and its worse for it, imo.

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2 hours ago, Rudy T said:

Football has changed and formations aren't what they once were, now everything is more fluid and positions have changed, full backs and wingers are no longer completely different types of players, both are expected to defend and attack. Forwards are no longer poachers they're now the first line of defence and are expected to drop in to receive the ball from areas in the past would be a midfield position. A 442 changes in game so how attacking or defensive the team play comes down to how far up or deep on the pitch the team is.

 

What we need to see more of is players initial thought is to play forward, at the moment we still look took take the easy option which tends to be sideways or backwards. 

Within your opening lines is why the game is going as a spectacle.  It is becoming so generic it bores people to f££k.

 

Where`s the individuality? Key elements are being lost in the game as players become safe, characterless and bred on one way of playing. 

 

People ask why Hearts rarely produce a centre forward. I was told the strategy was to breed them on being a number 10. I can`t remember the name but we lost a prospect not too long ago because of this. The Dad pulled him out.  But its not just a Hearts problem.

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18Jambo_dave74

For me it’s not really about the formation.

 

The best and most successful Hearts teams I’ve seen all played with energy, directness and at a tempo - particularly on the wide areas. That’s what we need to try and get back to on a consistent basis IMO.

 
I grew up watching the likes of McCann and Cameron who set the tempo of the team. 05/06 the team came flying out and you had Miko, Chesny and Rudi on the wings with Hartley in the middle. Under JJ and Sergio you had Suso, Temps and Driver on the wings. Last time in the championship we played at a tempo with Gomis pressing and dictating and the energy and pace of Nicholson, King and Paterson. 

 

The frustration has been seeing pedestrian football for years and mainly a group of slow players. Any quick players we’ve had have been generally poor.

 

 

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14 minutes ago, Debut 4 said:

Within your opening lines is why the game is going as a spectacle.  It is becoming so generic it bores people to f££k.

 

Where`s the individuality? Key elements are being lost in the game as players become safe, characterless and bred on one way of playing. 

 

People ask why Hearts rarely produce a centre forward. I was told the strategy was to breed them on being a number 10. I can`t remember the name but we lost a prospect not too long ago because of this. The Dad pulled him out.  But its not just a Hearts problem.

 

I agree. It's football by numbers. We coach players not to think for themselves and show any personality on the pitch.

 

I get fed up hearing phrases like "breaking the lines" and "they're good in transition" It's utter nonsense. 

 

Get the ball down, pass and move, track runners and get bodies in the box that's football. This obsession with possession is ruining the game. There's only one stat that matters and that's goals.

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20 minutes ago, Rudy T said:

 

I agree. It's football by numbers. We coach players not to think for themselves and show any personality on the pitch.

 

I get fed up hearing phrases like "breaking the lines" and "they're good in transition" It's utter nonsense. 

 

Get the ball down, pass and move, track runners and get bodies in the box that's football. This obsession with possession is ruining the game. There's only one stat that matters and that's goals.

Agree.  Players are swamped by “info” now.  Gies peace.  

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ToqueJambo

What a shower of crabbit so and sos. 

 

Just to point out he doesn't specify 4-4-2 or any other formation. The two strikers don't have to play up top side by side. What he's describing could easily be a 4-2-3-1 or a 4-3-3 or 4-5-1 or 4-4-1-1 or 4-1-4-1. Either way, he's trying to build a team for the long term and wants to install an attacking approach. All good, no? 

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gowestjambo

Almost every single team we watch plays the same way. Recycle the ball keep possesion. Sideways and Backwards with no intensity. Play the safe pass instead of using a bit of initiative. I have just watched Man City v Brighton - it drives you nuts it's just so boring. We sem to have lost the ability to dribble past players to create an opening. It is as if we need to score a perfect goal.

 

In my opinion, it will not matter what formation Robbie plays as he is a Defensive coach. All this crap about building a team for the future is just buying him time.

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4 hours ago, HoGwash said:

What a lot of negative nonsense posted on the back if what is essentially a puff piece talking us up. People need to lighten up a bit. 

Place is ****ing mental

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Dusk_Till_Dawn
12 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

What a shower of crabbit so and sos. 

 

Just to point out he doesn't specify 4-4-2 or any other formation. The two strikers don't have to play up top side by side. What he's describing could easily be a 4-2-3-1 or a 4-3-3 or 4-5-1 or 4-4-1-1 or 4-1-4-1. Either way, he's trying to build a team for the long term and wants to install an attacking approach. All good, no? 


Neilson’s football is dull. His quotes in this piece are drivel.

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1 minute ago, gowestjambo said:

Almost every single team we watch plays the same way. Recycle the ball keep possesion. Sideways and Backwards with no intensity. Play the safe pass instead of using a bit of initiative. I have just watched Man City v Brighton - it drives you nuts it's just so boring. We sem to have lost the ability to dribble past players to create an opening. It is as if we need to score a perfect goal.

 

In my opinion, it will not matter what formation Robbie plays as he is a Defensive coach. All this crap about building a team for the future is just buying him time.

Another disciple let's keep spreading the gospel, Stevie Wonder could win this league as manager of Hearts, yet I still have a nagging feeling it's going to be close because of Robbie's inability to put a side out to win constantly away from home..

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Dusk_Till_Dawn
5 minutes ago, gowestjambo said:

Almost every single team we watch plays the same way. Recycle the ball keep possesion. Sideways and Backwards with no intensity. Play the safe pass instead of using a bit of initiative. I have just watched Man City v Brighton - it drives you nuts it's just so boring. We sem to have lost the ability to dribble past players to create an opening. It is as if we need to score a perfect goal.

 

In my opinion, it will not matter what formation Robbie plays as he is a Defensive coach. All this crap about building a team for the future is just buying him time.


Correct

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Dusk_Till_Dawn
44 minutes ago, Rudy T said:

 

I agree. It's football by numbers. We coach players not to think for themselves and show any personality on the pitch.

 

I get fed up hearing phrases like "breaking the lines" and "they're good in transition" It's utter nonsense. 

 

Get the ball down, pass and move, track runners and get bodies in the box that's football. This obsession with possession is ruining the game. There's only one stat that matters and that's goals.


It’s not nonsense. It’s just that in order to apply these principles, you need players and coaches who are talented enough to do it. The more technical your style, the more technical your squad/staff have to be.

 

Exhibit A - Austin McPhee. A massive fraud who clearly eats coaching manuals and speaks like a coaching manual but is devoid of any talent and therefore hopeless. But fool enough people and you’ll get a career in the game (for a while).

 

I actually enjoy tactical analysis. I find the tricks and tactics of football fascinating. Re: City v Brighton tonight. The reason it’s dull is because City are quality and Brighton are shite. Brighton have a manager who tries to play like Guardiola but is actually not up to it and as a result, created a team who just clog up the field by messing about in the defensive third and middle third. The people killing the game are the coaches who try to emulate the best even though they don’t have anything like the ability.

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ToqueJambo
18 minutes ago, gowestjambo said:

Almost every single team we watch plays the same way. Recycle the ball keep possesion. Sideways and Backwards with no intensity. Play the safe pass instead of using a bit of initiative. I have just watched Man City v Brighton - it drives you nuts it's just so boring. We sem to have lost the ability to dribble past players to create an opening. It is as if we need to score a perfect goal.

 

In my opinion, it will not matter what formation Robbie plays as he is a Defensive coach. All this crap about building a team for the future is just buying him time.

 

 

The absolute state of the mentalists on here. in Neilson's time at Hearts - 1st and 2nd - we've constantly been one of the top scoring clubs in the country. One of the top scoring in Europe in his first season. He's literally just said he wants to build a squad containing attacking full-backs, attacking wingers, a playmaker stye central midfielder and different styles of strikers. You are off your head if you think Neilson is defensive.

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ToqueJambo
15 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:


Neilson’s football is dull. His quotes in this piece are drivel.

 

You saying this constantly doesn't make it true. I like goals personally. We just competed in a cup final - got closer to beating Celtic in a final than any team for several years - that was the very opposite of dull.

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Spellczech
10 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:


It’s not nonsense. It’s just that in order to apply these principles, you need players and coaches who are talented enough to do it. The more technical your style, the more technical your squad/staff have to be.

 

Exhibit A - Austin McPhee. A massive fraud who clearly eats coaching manuals and speaks like a coaching manual but is devoid of any talent and therefore hopeless. But fool enough people and you’ll get a career in the game (for a while).

 

I actually enjoy tactical analysis. I find the tricks and tactics of football fascinating. Re: City v Brighton tonight. The reason it’s dull is because City are quality and Brighton are shite. Brighton have a manager who tries to play like Guardiola but is actually not up to it and as a result, created a team who just clog up the field by messing about in the defensive third and middle third. The people killing the game are the coaches who try to emulate the best even though they don’t have anything like the ability.

McPhee was an analyst. I think he was good at watching and analysing matches. It is what he did at N Ireland & St Mirren. For some reason we decided that he was a first team coach, then an assistant manager, then a caretaker manager - perhaps because he owned a suit? If we'd just had McPhee doing what he was proven to be good at then perhaps we'd have got more out of him? Ditto Cathro. He was a first team coach but we employed him as a manager...Levein? He was a manager, but we employed him as a DOF, and then also a Manager - at the same time...Square pegs, round holes...

 

The problem with football is that it is too easy to get promoted to an entirely different role!

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Dusk_Till_Dawn
1 minute ago, Spellczech said:

McPhee was an analyst. I think he was good at watching and analysing matches. It is what he did at N Ireland & St Mirren. For some reason we decided that he was a first team coach, then an assistant manager, then a caretaker manager - perhaps because he owned a suit? If we'd just had McPhee doing what he was proven to be good at then perhaps we'd have got more out of him? Ditto Cathro. He was a first team coach but we employed him as a manager...Levein? He was a manager, but we employed him as a DOF, and then also a Manager - at the same time...Square pegs, round holes...

 

The problem with football is that it is too easy to get promoted to an entirely different role!


People seemed to change what McPhee was supposedly “good at” every time he ****ed something else up. The evidence at Hearts suggests he isn’t good at anything, apart from feathering his own nest.

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sandylejambo

I think the reason Robbie is getting a hard time is to do with some of the dross he has brought to the club, in past years a new player was usually an improvement, not with Robbie, he's brought two wingers that are worse than the boys we could have had playing and for less expense, and a defender that has made Berra look like the safe option. who's word is he taking that these dudes where any good?  his judgement until GMS (we hope) has been suspect to say the least. as for the lack of heart from players like Walker, maybe work these lazy *******s really hard in training until they either put in a shift or a transfer request, might be the way to go.

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6 hours ago, Agentjambo said:

I wouldn't play Jamie walker at all, can't even cut it in the championship. 

Agreed.

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Weakened Offender
1 hour ago, Lfhearts said:

Another disciple let's keep spreading the gospel, Stevie Wonder could win this league as manager of Hearts

 

See that there? ☝️  That's banter, likes. 👌

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Bull's-eye
1 hour ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:


Neilson’s football is dull. His quotes in this piece are drivel.

 

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 made my day. 

 

Thanks. 

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gowestjambo
2 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

 

The absolute state of the mentalists on here. in Neilson's time at Hearts - 1st and 2nd - we've constantly been one of the top scoring clubs in the country. One of the top scoring in Europe in his first season. He's literally just said he wants to build a squad containing attacking full-backs, attacking wingers, a playmaker stye central midfielder and different styles of strikers. You are off your head if you think Neilson is defensive.

 

Well as we all know talk is cheap. Barring the odd game, we are dreadful to watch. Passing back, sideways when we are under no pressure is nothing Football. As soon as we get pressed we panic and lump the ball forward. In most games despite the standard of the oppossition, we never grab the game by the scruff of the neck. When we play with tempo we are a different team, but all too often all we see is ponderous stuff. The Dundee and Dunfermline games are a prime example of handing the initiative to the opposition, and hoping for the best instead of attacking from the start. Yes I think Neilson is a Defensive Manager - the Hibs cup game when we were 2-0 proves that. You are off your head if you think otherwise......

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ToqueJambo
47 minutes ago, gowestjambo said:

 

Well as we all know talk is cheap. Barring the odd game, we are dreadful to watch. Passing back, sideways when we are under no pressure is nothing Football. As soon as we get pressed we panic and lump the ball forward. In most games despite the standard of the oppossition, we never grab the game by the scruff of the neck. When we play with tempo we are a different team, but all too often all we see is ponderous stuff. The Dundee and Dunfermline games are a prime example of handing the initiative to the opposition, and hoping for the best instead of attacking from the start. Yes I think Neilson is a Defensive Manager - the Hibs cup game when we were 2-0 proves that. You are off your head if you think otherwise......

 

Losing games now and then for whatever reason like every manager does is not the same as being a defensive manager. And believing in a possession game also does not make you a defensive manager. He has very clearly said he wants to attack and has a track record of putting out high scoring Hearts teams to back that up.

 

Defensive managers don't want to play two attacking FBs, two wingers, two strikers and a playmaker FFS. What Neilson does do is adapt his style according to the players at his disposal. So if he doesn't have faith in our attackers, like in between Sow leaving and Bjorn Jonnson hitting form, he will play more cautiously. When he has the right players he definitely goes for it.

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No Idle Talk

I like what Robbie had to say and I look forward to seeing him turn his vision into reality.

 

Teams who play with wingers and get lots of crosses into the box are exciting to watch. So if Robbie can turn us into that kind of team then I will be a happy chappy.

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Smith's right boot

Thank **** he never said something like, "we need to be hard to beat first and foremost and go from there."

 

Folk would be calling him dull and defensive......

 

Folks brains are that melted by CL they just can't process information or data coherently anymore. 

They're broken. 

 

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busby1985

Nothing wrong with what he’s said IMO. Unfortunately I’ve grown tired of listening to managers/players/owners/sporting directors etc etc talk a good game. Do it on the park and people will get on board. We’ve played 5 away games at championship sides and lost 3, simply not good enough. We dropped 4 points the last time in this league to sides that weren’t Rangers or Hibs. 1 loss and 1 draw. The league is significantly weaker than the 2014/2015 season. It’s all about attitude and professionalism in the games we’ve lost so far. When we aren’t at the races and aren’t up for matching the desire of the other sides, we’ve lost. That’s down to professionalism. Alloa are jobby. They’ll pack the midfield and look to contain us. I expect Hearts to have an answer for that this time round. If we don’t, then I’ll be worried. All the great chat and great sound bites in the media mean **** all if it’s not backed up on the park. I don’t want to hear about great things further down the road and all the if buts and maybes. Deal with the here and now and I’ll be happy. If playing 442 as he’s eluded to wins us matches and gets me excited then I am all for it. I am equally all for 4231 or 433 or 262 or any many, as long as it brings results. Like him or loathe him, Robbie has been the most successful manager we’ve had for a long time. His win % is ridiculous, one season in the championship and one and a bit seasons in the top flight and his win % is higher than 50%, that’s impressive for any Hearts manager. Sort the away form and we could be a very successful side. 

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10 hours ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:


It’s not nonsense. It’s just that in order to apply these principles, you need players and coaches who are talented enough to do it. The more technical your style, the more technical your squad/staff have to be.

 

Exhibit A - Austin McPhee. A massive fraud who clearly eats coaching manuals and speaks like a coaching manual but is devoid of any talent and therefore hopeless. But fool enough people and you’ll get a career in the game (for a while).

 

I actually enjoy tactical analysis. I find the tricks and tactics of football fascinating. Re: City v Brighton tonight. The reason it’s dull is because City are quality and Brighton are shite. Brighton have a manager who tries to play like Guardiola but is actually not up to it and as a result, created a team who just clog up the field by messing about in the defensive third and middle third. The people killing the game are the coaches who try to emulate the best even though they don’t have anything like the ability.

 

But none of this is any different to how football has always been played, the fundamentals are create space, pass, move, track runners, mark men at set pieces, get bodies in the box and score goals. The way managers and pundits talk now it's as if they've revolutionised the game.

 

The reality is most teams over analyse the opposition and the games are stale and defensive as both teams cancel each other out. You should always play to your strengths, obviously be aware of the oppositions threats but play your own game. 

 

Man City v Brighton is just a typical EPL game with no desire to win the game from One team and they're probably delighted with losing 1-0. 

 

Look at Rangers this season they play a system that every player is well drilled in, no matter who plays or who they play against they stick to it. It's taken a couple of seasons to get it right but look at the rewards. It's also enabled Gerrard to buy players who suit that system not just any random that happens to be decent. On the flip side you have a Celtic squad made up of decent players with no recognised system and they can't cope with Rangers or anyone else prepared to have a go at them.

 

 

 

 

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gregzy2k7

I quite like the 4-2-3-1 although we need more pace and energy imo, i hope we can get Campbell and a younger fitter CB for next season though. Alrhough saying that it's good to have options and if we can have a big powerful striker beside boyce in the Kevin Kyle mould who can hold the ball up and link up play and chip in with goals then I'm all for a 4-4-2 it very much depends on getting the right quality in for me.

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11 hours ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:


It’s not nonsense. It’s just that in order to apply these principles, you need players and coaches who are talented enough to do it. The more technical your style, the more technical your squad/staff have to be.

 

Exhibit A - Austin McPhee. A massive fraud who clearly eats coaching manuals and speaks like a coaching manual but is devoid of any talent and therefore hopeless. But fool enough people and you’ll get a career in the game (for a while).

 

I actually enjoy tactical analysis. I find the tricks and tactics of football fascinating. Re: City v Brighton tonight. The reason it’s dull is because City are quality and Brighton are shite. Brighton have a manager who tries to play like Guardiola but is actually not up to it and as a result, created a team who just clog up the field by messing about in the defensive third and middle third. The people killing the game are the coaches who try to emulate the best even though they don’t have anything like the ability.

Although Rudy was agreeing with my post I totally agree with yours, particularly the last big paragraph  which sort of gets at what I was saying.  
 

Every coaching manual coach wants to play from their 6 yard box, pass out like Barca or Man City. It’s a cock measuring exercise to try and show they can get their team playing like that. The bottom line is, they can’t. They lose silly goals, lose the ball in dangerous areas, waste time trying to pass the ball all the way up the park only to not be good enough in the last 3rd.

 

There’s one or two teams down there being different, playing to their strengths and bringing individuality, but it’s rare.  
 

Burnley are never going to set the world alight but they play to their strengths and probably survive longer than some of the sheep following teams who end up relegated.  Leeds are great to watch and play at pace but do play from their box and have conceded goals because of it.  

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Dusk_Till_Dawn
51 minutes ago, Rudy T said:

 

But none of this is any different to how football has always been played, the fundamentals are create space, pass, move, track runners, mark men at set pieces, get bodies in the box and score goals. The way managers and pundits talk now it's as if they've revolutionised the game.

 

The reality is most teams over analyse the opposition and the games are stale and defensive as both teams cancel each other out. You should always play to your strengths, obviously be aware of the oppositions threats but play your own game. 

 

Man City v Brighton is just a typical EPL game with no desire to win the game from One team and they're probably delighted with losing 1-0. 

 

Look at Rangers this season they play a system that every player is well drilled in, no matter who plays or who they play against they stick to it. It's taken a couple of seasons to get it right but look at the rewards. It's also enabled Gerrard to buy players who suit that system not just any random that happens to be decent. On the flip side you have a Celtic squad made up of decent players with no recognised system and they can't cope with Rangers or anyone else prepared to have a go at them.

 

 

 

 


But isn’t your final point contradicting what was said further up the thread? Rangers have a tactical plan. Celtic just have players. Doesn’t that prove it’s not 90 per cent about players?

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hmfc_liam06
17 hours ago, jambo3tevie said:

wow the Robbie haters out in force again. Lets hire another plane eh?

 

bellends 😂

 

 

 

The Dundee defeat is the Hibs defeat of his 2nd reign.

 

These sorts pounce on the first mistake and don't let go...because they were against him from the start. It gives them justification.

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hmfc_liam06
8 hours ago, Smith's right boot said:

Thank **** he never said something like, "we need to be hard to beat first and foremost and go from there."

 

Folk would be calling him dull and defensive......

 

Folks brains are that melted by CL they just can't process information or data coherently anymore. 

They're broken. 

 

 

👏

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sandylejambo

I just want to see players trying, we have better players than the other teams in the league but our midfield are a bunch of lazy, slow nerdowells, we don't need a forward, the ones we have are quite good, if only the midfield was not always 50 yards away from them, doing their nails. Slow and uninterested  are the words that come to mind when talking about our players. If the manager can't sort this he should F off.

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42 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:


But isn’t your final point contradicting what was said further up the thread? Rangers have a tactical plan. Celtic just have players. Doesn’t that prove it’s not 90 per cent about players?

No one said it’s not about coaching or managing but having the right players in the first place is always key.  
 

It’s a debate that can grow arms and legs though...In short, good management means many things and poor management really makes any standard of team ineffective.  Celtic have the latter now.  But if a good manager comes in and reinvigorates Celtic, it’s a different beast because of the players going hand in hand with that. 

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JimmyCant
8 hours ago, Smith's right boot said:

Thank **** he never said something like, "we need to be hard to beat first and foremost and go from there."

 

Folk would be calling him dull and defensive......

 

Folks brains are that melted by CL they just can't process information or data coherently anymore. 

They're broken. 

 

Don’t talk shite. You know as well as anyone else that he’s not going to play 2 wingers and 2 strikers away from home in the top league . In fact he’ll focus on making us hard to beat, which would actually be an improvement on where we’ve been recently, would have made more sense and is much closer to what he’ll actually do

 

 

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42 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:


But isn’t your final point contradicting what was said further up the thread? Rangers have a tactical plan. Celtic just have players. Doesn’t that prove it’s not 90 per cent about players?

 

No, Rangers play their game they don't worry about the opposition and change dramatically to nullify them. Gerrard let's them go out and play, I'm making myself ill talking about them but it's what's got them to the top again.

 

Of course it's tactics but the point earlier was about how dull the game has become with the over analysis of teams and stopping players expressing themselves on the pitch. In order to make it sound more than it is they've started using phrases like 2nd phase, transition, break the line the truth is it's a fear to trust your players. Mangers plotting out games before they are played because the majority of teams (especially in the EPL) are so predictable.

 

 

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Dusk_Till_Dawn
30 minutes ago, Rudy T said:

 

No, Rangers play their game they don't worry about the opposition and change dramatically to nullify them. Gerrard let's them go out and play, I'm making myself ill talking about them but it's what's got them to the top again.

 

Of course it's tactics but the point earlier was about how dull the game has become with the over analysis of teams and stopping players expressing themselves on the pitch. In order to make it sound more than it is they've started using phrases like 2nd phase, transition, break the line the truth is it's a fear to trust your players. Mangers plotting out games before they are played because the majority of teams (especially in the EPL) are so predictable.

 

 


Again, things like transition/breaking the line are just jargon if they’re being used by coaches who are trying to sound clever. But transitional play, for example, can be really effective. At their best, look at the way City/Liverpool set traps with their pressing off the ball. It can work brilliantly for them but it only works if it’s practiced and co-ordinated. Players wouldn’t be able to do it in the same way without that specific coaching.

 

I agree with something debut 4 said. There’s a huge differences between coaches who can do it and coaches who want people to think they can do it. Brighton are actually a great example of a coach (Potter) who is using his reputation as a passing coach to shield the inadequacies of his tactics and his team. It’s the old ‘they play the right way’ defence. But they don’t play the right way because it doesn’t work.

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avhudtheteeshirt

On here its all about style of play, yet if we win a game with a hoof up the park and it bounces over the keepers head we take the win?

Style of play only matters when your not winning, ask the Hobos, they'll tell you they play great football until the start to tumble down the league, then its any way to win ugly!!!

For years Jim Mclean had Dundee United playing an offside trap on the halfway line, it was boring to watch, yet they ended up winning the league, how many of their fans complained about the style of play?????

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jambonian

All Neilson has to do is stop worrying about what the opposition can do to us and concentrate on what we can do to them. Of course...be aware of any danger-men in the team you're playing against but don't change tactics because of them. Against Dundee, Charlie Adam was always going to be their main threat, he has played at the top level in football and although a player will lose pace, they don't lose their ability to read a game. The goal he scored against us in the first game of the season shows the ability he has. The best way to combat him is to try and keep the ball away from him as much as possible and when we have possession, make it count. No duff passes along the back or you're asking for trouble and to avoid any major mistakes, movement by team-mates makes it easier to receive the ball and create. And therein lies the problem. You don't run/make an angle, the game slows down and you're back to tippy-tappy stuff across the back and repeat it all over and over again. No coach should ever stop an individual from trying to be creative. Levein did this with Milinkovic and dropped him for having the audacity to try to create and not stay zonal. Probably Demi Mitchell as well.

Football's a simple game and doesn't need over-thought like so many managers do nowadays. If results don't come it costs managers their jobs constantly now partly because they try to nullify instead of create.

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JimmyCant
3 minutes ago, avhudtheteeshirt said:

 

For years Jim Mclean had Dundee United playing an offside trap on the halfway line, it was boring to watch, yet they ended up winning the league, how many of their fans complained about the style of play?????

McLeans United were hardly boring to watch. Yes they were a counterattacking team away from home but they had width and pace and some very underrated forward talent in that team. They were a great and quick side going forward and they were solid at the back. I’d rather watch Maclean’s United than Robbie Neilsons United, all day long.

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1 hour ago, Debut 4 said:

No one said it’s not about coaching or managing but having the right players in the first place is always key.  
 

It’s a debate that can grow arms and legs though...In short, good management means many things and poor management really makes any standard of team ineffective.  Celtic have the latter now.  But if a good manager comes in and reinvigorates Celtic, it’s a different beast because of the players going hand in hand with that. 

Our lack of pace in midfield demonstrates your point perfectly.  In a broader discussion our club have made mistakes or failed to reach the right standard in player fitness, tactics, coaching and signings in recent seasons. 

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Juho_Makela_Goal_Machine
14 hours ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:


Neilson’s football is dull. His quotes in this piece are drivel.

 

Best football we've played in the last 10 years was under him.

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jambonian
Just now, GinRummy said:

Our lack of pace in midfield demonstrates your point perfectly.  In a broader discussion our club have made mistakes or failed to reach the right standard in player fitness, tactics, coaching and signings in recent seasons. 

You could say that to play tippy-tappy football in midfield and across the back you don't need any pace, as long as you have a winger in the team it would seem. Replacing one defensive midfielder for another, then another, and another over the last few years hasn't progressed us as a team and that's where we need to see a change in mindset in the next six months.

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1 minute ago, jambonian said:

You could say that to play tippy-tappy football in midfield and across the back you don't need any pace, as long as you have a winger in the team it would seem. Replacing one defensive midfielder for another, then another, and another over the last few years hasn't progressed us as a team and that's where we need to see a change in mindset in the next six months.

Aye I’d like more dynamism in midfield as well. If we are stuck with the players we have then I still think we can attack well enough with Ginelly and GMS wide even with a slow midfield and avoid the tippy tippy stuff. At the moment any team that presses us has a great chance of beating us because we can’t get it together fast enough to counter. 

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JimmyCant
21 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Our lack of pace in midfield demonstrates your point perfectly.  In a broader discussion our club have made mistakes or failed to reach the right standard in player fitness, tactics, coaching and signings in recent seasons. 

I don’t think you need much pace in midfield unless you want to use a box to box player on the counter. Players like that are like hens teeth these days.

 

You need pace just about everywhere else and we’ve got very little of it. I couldn’t even tell you a really quick player we have. Possibly Ginelly but we’ve not seen him at 100%. Roberts is quick but doesn’t have much else. White surprisingly and deceptively quick. That’s about it really.

 

You do need fitness in midfield and you need speed of thought, awareness and tackling and passing ability. We’re missing some of those things sometimes. I’ve looked at us a few times this season and thought we weren’t fit enough. We’re certainly not aggressive enough and we’re not forward thinking enough.

 

 

Edited by JimmyCant
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6 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

I don’t think you need much pace in midfield unless you want to use a box to box player on the counter. Players like that are like hens teeth these days.

 

You need pace just about everywhere else and we’ve got very little of it. I couldn’t even tell you a really quick player we have. Possibly Ginelly but we’ve not seen him at 100%. Roberts is quick but doesn’t have much else. White surprisingly and deceptively quick. That’s about it really.

 

You do need fitness in midfield and you need speed of thought, awareness and tackling and passing ability. We’re missing some of those things sometimes. I’ve looked at us a few times the season and thought we weren’t fit enough. We’re certainly not aggressive enough and we’re not forward thinking enough.

 

 

Good post. On the other thread I mentioned that playing with two wingers means we shouldn’t need much pace in midfield.  I agree with what you are saying about speed of thought, ponderous is a word often used on here to describe the way we go from defending to attacking. The biggest problem (and there are probably many ways to fix it) is that of teams press us we can’t get our shit together to counter attack quickly enough. 
 

I agree regarding the individual players as well. I think White and Ginelly playing instantly changes out whole pattern of play. 

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davemclaren
8 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

I don’t think you need much pace in midfield unless you want to use a box to box player on the counter. Players like that are like hens teeth these days.

 

You need pace just about everywhere else and we’ve got very little of it. I couldn’t even tell you a really quick player we have. Possibly Ginelly but we’ve not seen him at 100%. Roberts is quick but doesn’t have much else. White surprisingly and deceptively quick. That’s about it really.

 

You do need fitness in midfield and you need speed of thought, awareness and tackling and passing ability. We’re missing some of those things sometimes. I’ve looked at us a few times this season and thought we weren’t fit enough. We’re certainly not aggressive enough and we’re not forward thinking enough.

 

 

Isn’t GMS quick?

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JimmyCant
2 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Good post. On the other thread I mentioned that playing with two wingers means we shouldn’t need much pace in midfield.  I agree with what you are saying about speed of thought, ponderous is a word often used on here to describe the way we go from defending to attacking. The biggest problem (and there are probably many ways to fix it) is that of teams press us we can’t get our shit together to counter attack quickly enough. 

Agreed. It often looks to me like we’re over focusing on safe possession and picking easy passes all the time instead of mixing it up a bit and playing passes a bit quicker. Yes you will lose the ball more often playing quicker passes but the ones that find a man tend to hurt a lot more than passing it 10 yards square to make sure we keep it. It’s like we’re waiting for a gap to appear rather than making a gap happen

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JimmyCant
3 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Isn’t GMS quick?

Can’t remember him being hugely speedy but I imagine he’s quicker than Frear Kingsley Walker etc

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