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kingantti1874
On 17/11/2020 at 20:28, JJ93 said:

What about a British football league?


I would love that.

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kingantti1874
2 hours ago, Kiwidoug said:

It would break my heart if rangers and Celtic joined another league and we went with them.


Evolve or die, there is no room for sentiment in football or business.. in 20 years the leagues won’t look as they do today so we either get on board or suffer in a footballing backwater.

 

**** Scottish football and every ****ing tinpot team in it. Would love it if I never had to go to ****ing Hamilton or Perth ever again

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JimmyCant
On 17/11/2020 at 20:28, JJ93 said:

What about a British football league?

What kind of level would we settle at. We’d probably start low but what sort of level of clubs would be our rivals eventually.

 

Im thinking Watford Millwall Hull Preston, that sort of level

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39 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:


Evolve or die, there is no room for sentiment in football or business.. in 20 years the leagues won’t look as they do today so we either get on board or suffer in a footballing backwater.

 

**** Scottish football and every ****ing tinpot team in it. Would love it if I never had to go to ****ing Hamilton or Perth ever again

Could not have said it any better 👍

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kingantti1874
17 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

What kind of level would we settle at. We’d probably start low but what sort of level of clubs would be our rivals eventually.

 

Im thinking Watford Millwall Hull Preston, that sort of level


We would grow significantly with the increased funding. No reason why we couldn’t achieve what Bournemouth or achieved given time and investment.

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ToqueJambo
49 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:


Evolve or die, there is no room for sentiment in football or business.. in 20 years the leagues won’t look as they do today so we either get on board or suffer in a footballing backwater.

 

**** Scottish football and every ****ing tinpot team in it. Would love it if I never had to go to ****ing Hamilton or Perth ever again

 

I don't see any scenario where we would benefit by following the OF to an Atlantic League. We'd have the same issue as we have now in terms of the financial gap.

 

However, them leaving would immediately give us and all the other clubs more shots at CL and other European football and the money that goes along with that. 

 

We'd be very well positioned to win titles and get into the CL in a league without the OF. In fact, we'd go back to the days when 4 or 5 teams could potentially win the league in any season as the financial gulf between us, Hibs and Aberdeen and the rets is much smaller tan the gap between us and the OF.

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8 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:


We would grow significantly with the increased funding. No reason why we couldn’t achieve what Bournemouth or achieved given time and investment.

Decent little club and all that but to me Bournemouth are the ultimate example of how English football is ****ed. A ground that holds less than 12000, yet a big cash investment gets them to the EPL and then the gravy train begins. No fans needed through the turnstiles to turn a profit as the tv cash is so huge. Yet all the time looking over their shoulders looking at where other clubs managed to scrabble their way in with the big boys and how quickly it can go horribly wrong. 

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ToqueJambo
3 minutes ago, Tazio said:

Decent little club and all that but to me Bournemouth are the ultimate example of how English football is ****ed. A ground that holds less than 12000, yet a big cash investment gets them to the EPL and then the gravy train begins. No fans needed through the turnstiles to turn a profit as the tv cash is so huge. Yet all the time looking over their shoulders looking at where other clubs managed to scrabble their way in with the big boys and how quickly it can go horribly wrong. 

 

The other thing is what did Bournemouth actually achieve? OK, they stayed in the big league for a while and competed well but is that really what we want to achieve, and as you say they mostly played for a TV audience not real fans at games. If we want to win titles, which I do, a league without the OF is our best chance of that. We'd have a very competitive, highly entertaining league without them. The OF don't have great footballers or play great football so the quality of our game wouldn't suffer at all. We'd just become a normal league for a country our size without two mega rich clubs dominating things.

Edited by ToqueJambo
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On 17/11/2020 at 09:09, S Form said:

A British league? Dermot Desmond is clearly delusional if he thinks that’s ever going to happen.

So ironic that the team who's fans hate Britain the most are prepared to drop their pants if the price is right lol

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ToqueJambo
56 minutes ago, tcjambo said:

So ironic that the team who's fans hate Britain the most are prepared to drop their pants if the price is right lol

 

English clubs: "So, what will Celtic bring to the "bestest league in the world"?"

 

Celtic: "Mass weekly chants in support of terrorists in a country that was regularly bombed by same terrorists, while also making it harder for big, established English teams like Forest, Derby, Watford, Sunderland, Middlesborough, etc to get back to the top league."

 

English clubs: "Er, we'll call you."

 

Never going to happen in a million years.

Edited by ToqueJambo
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4 hours ago, JimmyCant said:

What kind of level would we settle at. We’d probably start low but what sort of level of clubs would be our rivals eventually.

 

Im thinking Watford Millwall Hull Preston, that sort of level

Well if EFL clubs go to the wall in a big enough number, the English game might need to reconstruct as well which would be our pass to enter higher up depending on the criteria. We'd be prime for billionaire investment considering our city, history and fanbase. It would probably be the best thing to ever happen to us.

 

Yet some people would rather play Kilmarnock away with their 3k fans in their own stadium 3-4 times a season.

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FanofInverness

I support the Atlantic League. 

It would be a futuristic, ambitious move by Scottish football to join the Atlantic League. 

I think it should contain clubs from Scotland, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Poland, Wales, Finland, The Netherlands, Belgium, and the North and South of Ireland.

The big 6 Scottish clubs could join Celtic, Rangers, Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen and Dundee United. 

Have relegation and promotion between the Atlantic League and the national leagues. 

Have Eastern, Western and Southern conferences for a league of 16 teams n each conference. With the top 4 in each league having a play off system to decide the champions of the entire league. 

I totally disagree that it would not work. 

The recent Atlantic League idea was talked about 15 million pounds for each club. Which would put us ahead of English Championship sides in terms of TV money. It is no brainer to join the Atlantic League. 

 

Plus there is no way fans would get sick of playing big clubs from other countries. There would be national and local pride up for grabs. 

Plus the travel would just mean mostly travelling to other parts of Scotland, Wales, Ireland, and North West Europe. 

Did you know the biggest market for the EPL in TV money is Scandinavia? So if this would allow us to get a slice of the money pie going to the EPL that would be great. 

If we took a lead in this we could see Scottish clubs starting off in the top tier of a European Super League rather than starting off at the bottom of another league system. 

 

We would click our fingers and be in the top tier of a massive league that could grow. 

 

Imagine games like Celtic v Brondby, Rangers v IFK, Aberdeen V Rosenborg, Hearts v AIK, Dundee United v Viking, Hearts v Malmo. It would get massive attention all over Europe. It would be a chance for Scottish football to grow it's market all over Europe. 

We would attract more income, attendances and better players. 

If there is going to be a European  Super League,. lets get in at the start and start in the top tier rather than waiting and joining at the bottom. 

 

And it makes far more sense to create and Atlantic League, at the top tier, rather than just joining the bottom of the English football system and taking decades to work our way up to the English second tier. 

 

I cannot understand why anyone would turn down Scotland being at the forefront of this. 

 

We could be at the top tier. 

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ToqueJambo
39 minutes ago, FanofInverness said:

I support the Atlantic League. 

It would be a futuristic, ambitious move by Scottish football to join the Atlantic League. 

I think it should contain clubs from Scotland, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Poland, Wales, Finland, The Netherlands, Belgium, and the North and South of Ireland.

The big 6 Scottish clubs could join Celtic, Rangers, Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen and Dundee United. 

Have relegation and promotion between the Atlantic League and the national leagues. 

Have Eastern, Western and Southern conferences for a league of 16 teams n each conference. With the top 4 in each league having a play off system to decide the champions of the entire league. 

I totally disagree that it would not work. 

The recent Atlantic League idea was talked about 15 million pounds for each club. Which would put us ahead of English Championship sides in terms of TV money. It is no brainer to join the Atlantic League. 

 

Plus there is no way fans would get sick of playing big clubs from other countries. There would be national and local pride up for grabs. 

Plus the travel would just mean mostly travelling to other parts of Scotland, Wales, Ireland, and North West Europe. 

Did you know the biggest market for the EPL in TV money is Scandinavia? So if this would allow us to get a slice of the money pie going to the EPL that would be great. 

If we took a lead in this we could see Scottish clubs starting off in the top tier of a European Super League rather than starting off at the bottom of another league system. 

 

We would click our fingers and be in the top tier of a massive league that could grow. 

 

Imagine games like Celtic v Brondby, Rangers v IFK, Aberdeen V Rosenborg, Hearts v AIK, Dundee United v Viking, Hearts v Malmo. It would get massive attention all over Europe. It would be a chance for Scottish football to grow it's market all over Europe. 

We would attract more income, attendances and better players. 

If there is going to be a European  Super League,. lets get in at the start and start in the top tier rather than waiting and joining at the bottom. 

 

And it makes far more sense to create and Atlantic League, at the top tier, rather than just joining the bottom of the English football system and taking decades to work our way up to the English second tier. 

 

I cannot understand why anyone would turn down Scotland being at the forefront of this. 

 

We could be at the top tier. 

 

Football thrives on local rivalries. Take those away and you lose a lot from the game. I'm at the point where an escape route would be nice, but then I look at those fixtures you post and feel bored just reading them, in the same way I get bored watching most CL football in the group stages at least. Whatever Scottish football is it's not boring.

 

You need derbies. I followed the MLS for a bit and it only got interesting- and successful compared to previous times they've tried to make a league work in North America - when they introduced more local rivalries by expanding the league and strategically adding more teams near each other, so you get Portland Vs Seattle, Toronto vs Montreal, two New York teams, etc, etc.

 

I've always been in favour of expanding our top league simply to include as many derbies as possible, and we have quite a few tasty ones.

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Libertarian

The latest proposals include Scottish clubs with an Irish club along with Scandinavian clubs. The proposals would include a hugely improved TV deal compared to what Scottish clubs currently receive. The TV deal would allow clubs like Hearts to compete at least with English Championship clubs. The benefits for Scottish clubs in particular are huge and I would hope that the organisers push on with their proposals and call Celtic's bluff as they would likely cave in if the other clubs stuck together and show a united front on this.

One other point, after the events of the summer Hearts owe nothing to the SPFL and should therefore push for the latest proposals to come to fruition 

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Jamboinparis
4 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Football thrives on local rivalries. Take those away and you lose a lot from the game. I'm at the point where an escape route would be nice, but then I look at those fixtures you post and feel bored just reading them, in the same way I get bored watching most CL football in the group stages at least. Whatever Scottish football is it's not boring.

 

You need derbies. I followed the MLS for a bit and it only got interesting- and successful compared to previous times they've tried to make a league work in North America - when they introduced more local rivalries by expanding the league and strategically adding more teams near each other, so you get Portland Vs Seattle, Toronto vs Montreal, two New York teams, etc, etc.

 

I've always been in favour of expanding our top league simply to include as many derbies as possible, and we have quite a few tasty ones.


Local rivalries would stil exist in this setup. The proposal includes Hearts, Hibs, Rangers, Celtic and Aberdeen - still plenty of local rivalries in there! 8 a season. What this does is replace games against St Mirren or Livi for games against FC Cogenhagen, Malmo, Rosenborg. For some fans, the chace to ram it up St Mirren is much more entertaining than a game against a team like AIK with which we have no history or connection; for others the opportunity to compete in a bigger league against bigger teams like Malmo or Cophagen is more appealing. 

Super leagues / regional leagues seem to be inevitable. Obviously the super league with the major powers from the top leagues has had a lot of press, and beyond that there is talk of a Belgium/Netherlands league and also a Balkans league. Again, the question is do you want to be left behind as a big fish in a rapidly shrinking pond, or compete against a broader range of more well financed teams? I understand that many would rather remain in Scotland only.

 

Personally I'm in favour of the Atlantic League idea and we should grab these opportunities for the long-term benefit of the club. I can imagine being able to attract a far higher quality of player because of the money we would have. And no more seeing talented young Scottish players make the move to bog standard EFL sides because thats where the money is; we would be competing with English Championship sides in terms of budgets.

 

Being realistic, I think Hearts would be somewhere in the middle of this setup. However what excites me is the potential for us to go and challenge at or near the top. Two reasons the Old Firm are streets ahead in Scotland because of their revenue and the league setup (playing the OF 4 times makes a title change hard). The massive increase in TV money offsets the match-day/attendance disparity and we only need to play them twice a season. Also don't discount the effect of a league run by a bunch of charlatans like Neil Doncaster. Of course, with a bit of misfortune we could easily see ourselves down the bottom of the league in a play-off game against Dundee Utd for the chance to stay in the league. There will be a lot of similar sized teams in this league from across Scandinavia, plus Aberdeen and Hibs.

However I do have a concern about what is the best proposal will be as there are various ways this could be structured. For example:

- Who is involved? If Belgium and Netherlands are involved (they arent currently) then its a much more interesting prospect with teams like Ajax, PSV and Anderlecht featuring.

- This is a league system with 20 teams, so does European qualification come directly from this league? I would assume so as I don't expect the big clubs like Rangers or Copenhagen to give up potential places in the Champions League or Europa League while St Johnstone and Randers win the national leagues and secure a UCL qualification spot.  

- Can those teams leaving retain a colt team in the league structure? (below Premiership level) 

- How does relegation work? 3 down, and then 3 up from the national leagues of those relegated? E.g. Hibs replaced by Motherwell? Or is it a closed shop? Or is there a playoff between all the national champions for the spaces? That last one is unlikely as it could in time totally skew the representation and see Irish teams fall out of the setup completely.

- Are national cup competitions retained? I would hope that we could still compete in the Scottish Cup. My understanding is that the Canadian MLS teams still play in a Candada FA cup. Yes the Atlantic League teams would be an advantage, but we see cupsets every year in the FA Cup where wealthy Prem and Champ teams are put out by lower league sides.

- Would this be a summer or winter season? Of the countries mentioned I think only Scotland and Denmark play winter seasons.
 

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Off topic but bizzare name, given 90 percent of teams mentioned are nowhere near the Atlantic.

 

On topic this idea will be the death of football you love and know. It will become some NFL franchise style where if you lose your first two games your season is over nothing to play for. Game times would be all over the shop, fans bored, tynecastle would get 10k and it would be the death of the game and culture we love. 

 

I am in favour though of the new European competition, Europe league 2 or whatever its called, that is perfect for clubs of our size to go the distance in European competition which would be fun journey.  We just need to get our act together and get back up there.

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kingantti1874
17 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

I don't see any scenario where we would benefit by following the OF to an Atlantic League. We'd have the same issue as we have now in terms of the financial gap.

 

However, them leaving would immediately give us and all the other clubs more shots at CL and other European football and the money that goes along with that. 

 

We'd be very well positioned to win titles and get into the CL in a league without the OF. In fact, we'd go back to the days when 4 or 5 teams could potentially win the league in any season as the financial gulf between us, Hibs and Aberdeen and the rets is much smaller tan the gap between us and the OF.


Wishful thinking but incorrect .. we’d have the same European places as Latvia or wales, near zero TV income, zero coverage outside of Scotland, no sponsorship income. Even more kids in Scotland will gravitate to watching the old firm or English team..  
 

.. leagues of every nation will evolve!  We will either be part of it or be be as relevant as RoI or NI leagues.

Edited by kingantti1874
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20 hours ago, kingantti1874 said:


Evolve or die, there is no room for sentiment in football or business.. in 20 years the leagues won’t look as they do today so we either get on board or suffer in a footballing backwater.

 

I remember the exact same argument 20 years ago. Nothing has changed other than the rich clubs getting richer and the rest fighting over the scraps.

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