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Mossmorran


jake

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been here before

When theres low cloud over Edinburgh and the Forth and they're doing some hefty flaring the ensuing glow looks very ethereal.

 

I like it.

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Could see it driving to the game last night whilst going down Colinton Road.

Very bright.

 

Must be a right pain to live next to.

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I stay about 3 miles from it. It's not as bad as last year when it was spewing out black shit all over the surrounding towns and keeping everyone awake at night due to the huge roar coming off it.

 

Place should be shut down.

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Phoned SEPA after viewing their website.

What a fekin toothless organisation they really are.

Pumping out fek knows what for weeks.

 

And what the fek is the Scottish government doing?

 

No wonder direct action is legitimate.

 

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It was supposed to have a plan for an enclosed flare completed by this January, so they are doing something about it. 

 

Ah well. Fifers are always boasting about their cheap houses, there's reasons why. 

Edited by The Brow
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been here before
4 hours ago, The Brow said:

It was supposed to have a plan for an enclosed flare completed by this January, so they are doing something about it. 

 

Ah well. Fifers are always boasting about their cheap houses, there's reasons why. 

 

Mossmorran, Grangemouth and a 40 mile detour when the waether is shite. Well worth that 'extra bedroom and a bigger garden for 30 grand less than you get in Edinburgh'.

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14 hours ago, jake said:

Outrageous tonight.

How the fek is this not resulting in sanctions.

It must be pumping out massive amounts of pollutants.

 

It's not great, but it's still better from both a safety and an environmental point of view to burn it rather than just let it vent off naturally. 

 

Lesser of two evils from that perspective. 

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24 minutes ago, Lemongrab said:

As seen from Bonnyrigg tonight.

20200213-212427.jpg

When i worked in the flour mill in leith docks, great view of the flames at night.

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That must be a nightmare to live near it , not sure if the noise or the light from it would be worse . Just seen it from the top of comely bank avenue , it’s incredible . 

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Shanks said no

We were at Tesco Hermiston Gait earlier and I noticed the red sky to the north, unbelievable when we got on the bypass toward Gogar and it was flaming away.

 

 

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22 hours ago, 3fingersreid said:

That must be a nightmare to live near it , not sure if the noise or the light from it would be worse . Just seen it from the top of comely bank avenue , it’s incredible . 

 

There hasn't been any noise this time, thankfully.

 

Last summer was like having a turbo jet going constantly. Great times.

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100-ish staff walked out a few hours early today in protest at the way the place is being run: safety concerns are not being addressed and workers no longer feel safe.

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Francis Albert

So still run by Exxon Mobil. I had assumed that it had been bought by one of the cheapo outfits that run most of the UK oil and gas business now. Seems the sort of thing that Scottish Government should be showing interest in and may even have some powers to intervene?

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  • 7 months later...
10 hours ago, Smack said:

At it's terrifying best tonight. The whole sky looks ablaze and I'm miles away. 

 

 

As I said, it's not ideal by any stretch, but much better than the alternative.

 

Exxon must be getting hammered at some point soon though. If you are relying on your flare/disposal systems this long in 'normal' operation, you have a serious problem that needs to be addressed.  

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The plant is clearly not right.

It clearly needs to be taken offline and seriously upgraded.

 

At the minute we're having to put up with giant flaring all the time to avoid a Beirut style explosion.

 

The government has to intervene and force a closure.

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7 hours ago, Cade said:

The plant is clearly not right.

It clearly needs to be taken offline and seriously upgraded.

 

At the minute we're having to put up with giant flaring all the time to avoid a Beirut style explosion.

 

The government has to intervene and force a closure.

No, you're not. 

 

You're having to put up with flaring to prevent the release of unburned flammable gases into the atmosphere which is 1) dangerous because they could ignite where you dont want them to, and 2) bad for the environment as their global warming potentials are much worse than the CO2 generated by burning them. 

 

Shutting the plant down until whatever is wrong is fixed is the correct answer though. Two problems with this though:

 

1) Ethylene crackers take forever and a day to turn back on to prevent thermal shock damage which is why they might be willing to keep it running if they think they can fix things soon. 

 

2) Its not just one plant you would have to shut down. Mossmorran gets its ethane feedstock directly from Shell's FNGL plant next door (nice place, i've visited) and they only have a finite amount of storage if Exxon cant take it and Shell cant export it via ship at Braefoot Bay. This would likely lead Exxon to pretty large penalties, which is again justifies flaring to them for the short term. 

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Hugh Phamism

I worked on the commissioning at Exxon (Esso it was then) Fife Ethylene Plant back in 1984/85 and I had to climb to the top of the flare stack to test the temperature sensors (thermocouples). It took over 30 minutes to get to the top, with a staggered ladder system, and then another 10 minutes to stop shaking when I got there. Once you got used to the flexing and swinging, even on a very still day, the view was breathtaking. 

 

As Trotter says, the flaring is a 'safety valve' and is the safest way to carry out a soft shutdown on the facility.

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The_razors_edge
On 07/02/2020 at 08:56, hmfc_liam06 said:

I stay about 3 miles from it. It's not as bad as last year when it was spewing out black shit all over the surrounding towns and keeping everyone awake at night due to the huge roar coming off it.

 

Place should be shut down.


I also live 3 miles away (crossgates) but it’s never really bothered me. My kids love seeing the big flame in the sky!

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It's ridiculously bright, I've never seen it like that. Looks like the whole place is in flames. 

Edited by Cruyff
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Dr. Sheldon Cooper

Was driving back from Perth earlier tonight and we ended up taking a detour on our way home to go and take a closer look. I've always been strangely fascinated by the place but have never seen it up close so this seemed like a perfect opportunity. Its quite the sight but I must admit I expected it to be a bit noisier than it was!

 

The effect it gives off is staggering. As others have said it feels like the whole place is on fire, especially when you can see the smoke climbing over the hills in the distance. I hadn't really appreciated the size of the place either.

 

Was reading up a bit about it earlier as I had never really been too clued up on it, but I can't say I came away feeling any more knowledgable 😂

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10 hours ago, Hugh Phamism said:

I worked on the commissioning at Exxon (Esso it was then) Fife Ethylene Plant back in 1984/85 and I had to climb to the top of the flare stack to test the temperature sensors (thermocouples). It took over 30 minutes to get to the top, with a staggered ladder system, and then another 10 minutes to stop shaking when I got there. Once you got used to the flexing and swinging, even on a very still day, the view was breathtaking. 

 

As Trotter says, the flaring is a 'safety valve' and is the safest way to carry out a soft shutdown on the facility.

 

One thing I haven't done yet, been up to the top of a flare/vent stack. Not something I'm actively yearning for! Strangest place I've ever been though, hands down, is inside the cargo tanks of a membrane-type LNG carrier. This particular tank holds 45,000 m³ of LNG at -160°C. For scale, those are full-sized adults at the bottom of the pump tower:

 

20171204-112604.jpg

 

2 hours ago, Dr. Sheldon Cooper said:

Was reading up a bit about it earlier as I had never really been too clued up on it, but I can't say I came away feeling any more knowledgable 😂

 

Flares are installed at pretty much every refinery/petchem facility/gas processing plants. They are designed to burn off excess gas that would otherwise build-up inside vessels, pipes and storage tanks and cause an increase in pressure that may lead to something breaking in a way you don't want it to. 

Normally, you see tiny (relatively speaking) pilot flames at the top. These are flames that are lit 24/7 using fuel gas - similar to the pilot flame on your boiler at home - so that when pressure relief or depressurization valves are opened, the gas released immediately ignites rather than causing chaos elsewhere. The Mossmorran Exxon plant takes ethane which is separated from natural gas coming from the North Sea at the Fife NGL plant next door which is then 'cracked' to produce ethylene and hydrogen. Ethylene is one of the most used petchem feedstocks and is used to make, amongst other things, polyethylene plastics and it's derivatives. Both ethylene and ethane have a much higher heat of combustion than natural gas (which is predominantly methane) hence the very large, very bright flame you see. 

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12 hours ago, Seaside jambo said:

It’s like a view of from the lord of the rings 

looks spectacular in a frightening way 

MossMordor as it's now known 😁

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Lone Striker
On 11/02/2020 at 23:26, jake said:

Phoned SEPA after viewing their website.

What a fekin toothless organisation they really are.

Pumping out fek knows what for weeks.

 

And what the fek is the Scottish government doing?

 

No wonder direct action is legitimate.

 

As others with knowledge of chemical process plants have said, this burn-off seems to be an unfortunate "least worst" safety consequence.   

 

However you are right about SEPA - an organisation which is  now  empowered b the SG to demand annual  income from small community groups & clubs under the guise of "flood risk mitigation"  .....  risks which have been calculated by their own  software with  no actual assessment visits by hydrology experts.      Basically a legal mafia operation. 

 

A few years ago, hundreds of residents in the Grangenouth area complained to councillors and the  MSP about a plague of flies/blue bottles which had suddenly appeared and was invading their houses.  The councillors contacted SEPA to investigate the source.       The only places they checked were  businesses and sites which held a licence from them - couldn't find a source at any of them -  and just advised  the residents to buy fly spray or fly traps.  Pathetic. 

 

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  • 1 month later...
30 minutes ago, Smack said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-54840311

 

News about the emissions from October's flaring. Good that it's official, but you didn't need to be an expert to figure out it was spewing some unholy foost into the air. Just a nose and a sense of smell covered that base.

And they want us to run about in battery operated cars.

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4 hours ago, Smack said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-54840311

 

News about the emissions from October's flaring. Good that it's official, but you didn't need to be an expert to figure out it was spewing some unholy foost into the air. Just a nose and a sense of smell covered that base.

 

There's no smell. It's like saying you can smell the gas on your cooker when the flame is on.

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Dr. Sheldon Cooper

I must admit, when we drove by the last time it was flaring we opened the car window as I had heard about the smell but we couldn't smell anything.

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On 07/11/2020 at 17:09, Herbert said:

 

There's no smell. It's like saying you can smell the gas on your cooker when the flame is on.

When it was flaring there was a smell a bit like burning tyre rubber in the air where I am about 10 miles away. Maybe just coincidence, correlation doesn't equal causation and all that.

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8 hours ago, Smack said:

When it was flaring there was a smell a bit like burning tyre rubber in the air where I am about 10 miles away. Maybe just coincidence, correlation doesn't equal causation and all that.

 

I worked in cowdenbeath for years and never smelt it once, I live less than 10miles from it aswell. The people in cowdenbeath are making out it's a bigger deal than it is, houses getting shaken to bits, kids getting scared etc.

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On 11/02/2020 at 23:26, jake said:

Phoned SEPA after viewing their website.

What a fekin toothless organisation they really are.

Pumping out fek knows what for weeks.

 

And what the fek is the Scottish government doing?

 

No wonder direct action is legitimate.

 

SEPA

Waste of space.

Good friend of mine has a wee garage with a bit of land out the back so he was breaking some scrapped cars, selling the parts on-line and then selling the rest of the chassis to the big scrap metal boys. Wasn't getting rich but it was paying the rates and the electric bills at the business.

SEPA told him to stop as he didn't have a "licence" to do that however; if he paid for a SEPA licence then he could continue.

So its not about the environmental issues of breaking up scrapped cars...its the licence that the money brings them.

Dont pay...no play!

Pay...it's OK.

He told them to RAM it!

WTF is that all about?

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