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Smack

How did politics come to be defined by these terms? I've googled it but none the wiser as opinions differ. 

 

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scott herbertson
2 minutes ago, Smack said:

How did politics come to be defined by these terms? I've googled it but none the wiser as opinions differ. 

 

The political terms "Left" and "Right" were coined during the French Revolution (1789–1799), referring to the seating arrangement in the French Estates General: those who sat on the left generally opposed the monarchy and supported the revolution

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Smack

With respect, that doesn't explain the modern interpretation. 

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bobsharp

I tend to believe that it refers to say a middle line of political belief that is general, whereas the conservative belief is more to the right of the middle line, and the socialist/communist beliefs are well left of the middle line.

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milky_26
43 minutes ago, Smack said:

With respect, that doesn't explain the modern interpretation. 

it sort of does, if you assume in those days those who opposed the monarchy in france would be more liberal wanting more equality etc

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Cade
43 minutes ago, Smack said:

With respect, that doesn't explain the modern interpretation. 

It exactly explains it.

The French National Assembly divided itself in the seating plan, with revolutionaries on the left and conservative traditionalists on the right.

This has then been extrapolated and assigned to political parties around the world as it labels them and make their policies easier to understand (well, for the media at least)

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Mac_fae_Gillie

Trouble today is there is a Left and Right on politics like immigration and a left/right on social issues/rich and poor.

You vote Labour your considered left wing because of the social issues but truth is poorer people are way more anti immigration as it is their jobs and wages that are effected by a larger and cheaper labour force.

If your anti gay then your right wing, but you here the talk of the working man in the pub if they see a gay looking person.

 

Today we got a 100 issues that have a left and a right, it is nothing more than a "for or against".

Don't even get me started on liberal.

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SpruceBringsteen

Two labels that have come to mean absolutely nothing. The radical left Maoist Labour party ran on a manifesto basically copied off the SNP who are of course Tartan Tories according to, uh, the Labour Party who were roundly trounced by (according to the Spectator) the centrist Boris Johnson.

 

It's even more ludicrous over here where supporters of the centre right Democrats are somehow both Stalin and Hitler simultaneously. :lol:

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AlphonseCapone

Hate the terms. So simplistic. Surely folk swing between each depending on the issue. 

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Dusk_Till_Dawn

The right - everything Owen Jones hates.

 

The left - everything Owen Jones likes.

 

That’s basically the long and short.

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Maple Leaf
1 hour ago, AlphonseCapone said:

Hate the terms. So simplistic. Surely folk swing between each depending on the issue. 

 

True enough.  I'm a liberal when it comes to social issues, but a fiscal conservative.

 

Where does that put me on the left/right spectrum?  Somewhere around "confused".

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Zlatanable
6 hours ago, Smack said:

How did politics come to be defined by these terms? I've googled it but none the wiser as opinions differ. 

 

 

6 hours ago, scott herbertson said:

The political terms "Left" and "Right" were coined during the French Revolution (1789–1799), referring to the seating arrangement in the French Estates General: those who sat on the left generally opposed the monarchy and supported the revolution

 

4 hours ago, Cade said:

It exactly explains it.

The French National Assembly divided itself in the seating plan, with revolutionaries on the left and conservative traditionalists on the right.

This has then been extrapolated and assigned to political parties around the world as it labels them and make their policies easier to understand (well, for the media at least)

This is why we say these terms. 

 

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H2
12 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

True enough.  I'm a liberal when it comes to social issues, but a fiscal conservative.

 

Where does that put me on the left/right spectrum?  Somewhere around "confused".

Not at all. It's perfectly reasonable to have some view that are labelled left and some labelled right. They are just labels.

For example, nationalisation - to be totally left you would have everything nationalised, but very few people actually believe that everything should be nationalised.

 

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Maple Leaf
36 minutes ago, Cade said:

Answer the questions, find out where you stand

 

https://www.politicalcompass.org/

 

Interesting quiz.  Here's me:

 

personalised chart

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Bring Back Paulo Sergio

20200129_232728.thumb.png.6e42564bb8e8c2d44e61fcd50f927c8d.png

 

Edited by Bring Back Paulo Sergio

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i8hibsh

Left wing are better people and their vote is always the well thought out and correct one. They work harder but have less money so want more of everyone elses. Their view is the only one and if you disagree you are a racist  They care more and contribute more and are completely selfless in all they do. They are peace loving but will bully and attack all those who oppose and they are for the worker but demand you to be sacked if they do not agree.

 

Right wing just gets on with it.

 

 

Edited by i8hibsh

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Maple Leaf
3 hours ago, i8hibsh said:

Left wing are better people and their vote is always the well thought out and correct one. They work harder but have less money so want more of everyone elses. Their view is the only one and if you disagree you are a racist  They care more and contribute more and are completely selfless in all they do. They are peace loving but will bully and attack all those who oppose and they are for the worker but demand you to be sacked if they do not agree.

 

Right wing just gets on with it.

 

 

 

Your sarcasm is clear and your descriptions are wildly exaggerated.  You can do better than that.

 

Right wing people like Hitler and Mussolini "just get on with it"?

 

OK. 

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Gashauskis9

The whole concept of left and right wing is pointless.  We keep getting told that political allegiance is a straight line spectrum, when the reality is that it’s more of a sphere.  Brexit being a fine example, where you couldn’t differentiate between the far left and far right most of the time.

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i8hibsh
4 hours ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

Your sarcasm is clear and your descriptions are wildly exaggerated.  You can do better than that.

 

Right wing people like Hitler and Mussolini "just get on with it"?

 

OK. 

 

 

They were both left wing. Ipso facto.

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John Findlay
2 hours ago, Gashauskis9 said:

The whole concept of left and right wing is pointless.  We keep getting told that political allegiance is a straight line spectrum, when the reality is that it’s more of a sphere.  Brexit being a fine example, where you couldn’t differentiate between the far left and far right most of the time.

That's the thing, the far right and the far left they always meet in the end.

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Boab

W*nk...Good guy !

Farage is a w*nk !

My MP is a good guy.

That’s how it rolls in my world.

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i8hibsh
6 hours ago, Gashauskis9 said:

The whole concept of left and right wing is pointless.  We keep getting told that political allegiance is a straight line spectrum, when the reality is that it’s more of a sphere.  Brexit being a fine example, where you couldn’t differentiate between the far left and far right most of the time.

 

We live in an age of identity politics sadly Gas.  Never even used to classify myself as anything until a few years back.  The way the world is today I certainly am right wing.  I used to see things from the left, at least in part but now I am 100% on the right.

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Maple Leaf
5 hours ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

They were both left wing. Ipso facto.

 

Nope.  They were both Fascists:

 

Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and strong regimentation of society and of the economy which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe.

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bobsharp
18 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

Nope.  They were both Fascists:

 

Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and strong regimentation of society and of the economy which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe.

 

That almost sounds like someone I have heard about, I'll have to see if I can remember.

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redjambo
1 minute ago, bobsharp said:

 

That almost sounds like someone I have heard about, I'll have to see if I can remember.

 

In order to grow and to function correctly, fascism needs a solid support of subservient underlings willing to administer and execute the leader's wishes, or at the very least not to stand in his or her way in cases where the leader's actions are immoral or wrong.

 

Yup, that's got me thinking too...

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i8hibsh
31 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

Nope.  They were both Fascists:

 

Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and strong regimentation of society and of the economy which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe.

 

Sigh.

 

During the time of their importance they were known as left wing fascists.  Fascism at this time in the world was exclusive to left wing politics.  Only since this time has the entire concept been forced to the right to sit snuggly as a convenient way to hide their shame and inconvenience for leftists.  These are known facts.

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bobsharp
12 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

Sigh.

 

During the time of their importance they were known as left wing fascists.  Fascism at this time in the world was exclusive to left wing politics.  Only since this time has the entire concept been forced to the right to sit snuggly as a convenient way to hide their shame and inconvenience for leftists.  These are known facts.

 

Wasn't Hitler inclined to attack certain groups of people, such as Jews, Communists, Union leaders, and their unions. Did Hitler not also in a right wing style also use the economy to stimulate employment to prove his interest in the people, when in truth such things as the Autobahn was created for the efficient transportation of war goods and supplies. As I am becoming used to in todays environment did he not also lie about the produce of all the factories which were contrary to end of WW1 agreements, and unlawfully produced weapons of war, and aircraft etc. There does seem to be a pretty strong case to argue now about a right wing leader who will blatantly lie and disparage as Hitler particularly done to anyone who disagrees with him. Didn't read about these things, may not be knowledgeable because I have only lived through them and seen the terrible,terrible results.

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Maple Leaf
31 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

Sigh.

 

During the time of their importance they were known as left wing fascists.  Fascism at this time in the world was exclusive to left wing politics.  Only since this time has the entire concept been forced to the right to sit snuggly as a convenient way to hide their shame and inconvenience for leftists.  These are known facts.

 

*sigh*

 

Those are not facts, those are opinions.  Facists were right-wing (the people you admire) who hated communists, who are left-wing.

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Boab

Ah’ll give ye Fascism. 
Deport everyone under a certain I.Q. to mainland Europe and replace them with Europeans who will further the society for the benefit of all.

Let Europe suffer these numbskulls !

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tian447
16 hours ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

Interesting quiz.  Here's me:

 

personalised chart

 

I'm apparently a bit more "Stalin"-y, and you're a bit more "Gandhi"-y, according to their baseline!

 

chart?ec=-4.63&soc=-0.15

 

axeswithnames.gif

 

Edited by tian447

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OmiyaHearts

I don't full understand what it means to be either but I done that test, out of interest. Basically, I'm Ghandi.... or @Maple Leaf !

Economic Left/Right: -4.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.54

personalised chart

 

 

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bobsharp

I finished it and it appears I am Ghandiish, I was sure I would tend to a more right result. I guess I am in a way Righteous.🤒

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redjambo

Here I am. Probably shows why I'm dissatisfied with the current state of UK politics. ;)

 

517111480_Screenshotat2020-01-3016-06-03.png.2acc488e200a9bca235d50736b14b57f.png

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Maple Leaf

@OmiyaHearts and @redjambo.  We're so close that we should form our very own wee hand-wringing, pants-wetting, pinko political party.  Left wing, of course! :wink:

 

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redjambo
1 minute ago, Maple Leaf said:

@OmiyaHearts and @redjambo.  We're so close that we should form our very own wee hand-wringing, pants-wetting, pinko political party.  Left wing, of course! :wink:

 

 

I'll get our draft constitution written up on recycled organic non-bleached fair-trade paper at the double!

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Maple Leaf
28 minutes ago, bobsharp said:

I finished it and it appears I am Ghandiish, I was sure I would tend to a more right result. I guess I am in a way Righteous.🤒

 

You'll need to learn how to work a spinning wheel.

 

Image result for gandhi spinning wheel

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SpruceBringsteen

Sign me up for the JKB Chomsky Bragg club.

 

78cwd3c.png

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bobsharp
14 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

You'll need to learn how to work a spinning wheel.

 

Image result for gandhi spinning wheel

Well at least I have the hair style for it, and the physique.

 

Edited by bobsharp

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Smack
3 hours ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

Nope.  They were both Fascists:

 

Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and strong regimentation of society and of the economy which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe.

Ann Budge? That was for you comrade I8

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WoolfordsHearts

Are you more likely to be left wing if you're a left footer than being right wing if you're a right footer?.....

🤔

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Cade

"Stalin and Hitler were both far-left because Stalin called himself a communist and the Nazis called themselves national socialists"

 

How much more ignorant can you be?

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Space Mackerel

Mine, although I did this test ages ago and the questions have certainly been updated for 2020.

 

image.png.82194f4fa68162f39036ffb520df5007.png

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leginten
On 30/01/2020 at 17:21, Cade said:

"Stalin and Hitler were both far-left because Stalin called himself a communist and the Nazis called themselves national socialists"

 

How much more ignorant can you be?

 

Agreed. 

 

It’s a bit like believing that countries which include the word “democratic” in their title will be shining examples of democracy.

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Tazio
On 30/01/2020 at 16:20, Maple Leaf said:

 

You'll need to learn how to work a spinning wheel.

 

Image result for gandhi spinning wheel

The only spin there is him pretending to be something he isn’t. He did very well from the sandals and robes image but the fact is he was a very educated man who was a qualified lawyer. 

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bobsharp

Trump is different than Hitler and Mussolini, they were both veterans who served their Country in a war.

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Toggie88
On 30/01/2020 at 15:19, OmiyaHearts said:

I don't full understand what it means to be either but I done that test, out of interest. Basically, I'm Ghandi.... or @Maple Leaf !

Economic Left/Right: -4.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.54

personalised chart

 

 

 

I done this about 6 months ago, and landed roundabout where you are. 

 

I've done this same test for years, noticed myself drifting slightly over time towards the centre (on Left/Right axis) but shifted substantially more Libertarian. When I first did this (must have been 19/20),  I was just below the centre line on between Auth/Libn. 

Edited by Toggie88

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Smack
4 hours ago, bobsharp said:

Trump is different than Hitler and Mussolini, they were both veterans who served their Country in a war.

Hitler served Germany. He was Austrian. 

 

5 hours ago, Tazio said:

The only spin there is him pretending to be something he isn’t. He did very well from the sandals and robes image but the fact is he was a very educated man who was a qualified lawyer. 

Interesting point. Fairly well qualified and travelled. 

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bobsharp
1 hour ago, Smack said:

Hitler served Germany. He was Austrian. 

 

Interesting point. Fairly well qualified and travelled. 

I do not dispute that, but he served Germany as a soldier and served Germany as a Leader, Germany and Austria were very close in fact had been related prior to 1866.  I was born and raised in Scotland but I am now Canadian, it would appear to me that Hitler had made a similar choice whether by actual immigration and citizenship application or just opting to domicile there.. Despite this my point is that he fought for Germany when they needed men, and went on to become a powerful man in German politics. I apologise for not being absolutely precise, but I have every confidence that I will be corrected promptly when required.

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