Smack Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 How did politics come to be defined by these terms? I've googled it but none the wiser as opinions differ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott herbertson Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 2 minutes ago, Smack said: How did politics come to be defined by these terms? I've googled it but none the wiser as opinions differ. The political terms "Left" and "Right" were coined during the French Revolution (1789–1799), referring to the seating arrangement in the French Estates General: those who sat on the left generally opposed the monarchy and supported the revolution Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smack Posted January 29, 2020 Author Share Posted January 29, 2020 With respect, that doesn't explain the modern interpretation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpie Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 I tend to believe that it refers to say a middle line of political belief that is general, whereas the conservative belief is more to the right of the middle line, and the socialist/communist beliefs are well left of the middle line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milky_26 Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 43 minutes ago, Smack said: With respect, that doesn't explain the modern interpretation. it sort of does, if you assume in those days those who opposed the monarchy in france would be more liberal wanting more equality etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 43 minutes ago, Smack said: With respect, that doesn't explain the modern interpretation. It exactly explains it. The French National Assembly divided itself in the seating plan, with revolutionaries on the left and conservative traditionalists on the right. This has then been extrapolated and assigned to political parties around the world as it labels them and make their policies easier to understand (well, for the media at least) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mac_fae_Gillie Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 Trouble today is there is a Left and Right on politics like immigration and a left/right on social issues/rich and poor. You vote Labour your considered left wing because of the social issues but truth is poorer people are way more anti immigration as it is their jobs and wages that are effected by a larger and cheaper labour force. If your anti gay then your right wing, but you here the talk of the working man in the pub if they see a gay looking person. Today we got a 100 issues that have a left and a right, it is nothing more than a "for or against". Don't even get me started on liberal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpruceBringsteen Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 Two labels that have come to mean absolutely nothing. The radical left Maoist Labour party ran on a manifesto basically copied off the SNP who are of course Tartan Tories according to, uh, the Labour Party who were roundly trounced by (according to the Spectator) the centrist Boris Johnson. It's even more ludicrous over here where supporters of the centre right Democrats are somehow both Stalin and Hitler simultaneously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphonseCapone Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 Hate the terms. So simplistic. Surely folk swing between each depending on the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 The right - everything Owen Jones hates. The left - everything Owen Jones likes. That’s basically the long and short. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maple Leaf Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 1 hour ago, AlphonseCapone said: Hate the terms. So simplistic. Surely folk swing between each depending on the issue. True enough. I'm a liberal when it comes to social issues, but a fiscal conservative. Where does that put me on the left/right spectrum? Somewhere around "confused". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 Answer the questions, find out where you stand https://www.politicalcompass.org/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2 Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 12 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said: True enough. I'm a liberal when it comes to social issues, but a fiscal conservative. Where does that put me on the left/right spectrum? Somewhere around "confused". Not at all. It's perfectly reasonable to have some view that are labelled left and some labelled right. They are just labels. For example, nationalisation - to be totally left you would have everything nationalised, but very few people actually believe that everything should be nationalised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maple Leaf Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 36 minutes ago, Cade said: Answer the questions, find out where you stand https://www.politicalcompass.org/ Interesting quiz. Here's me: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring Back Paulo Sergio Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 (edited) Edited January 29, 2020 by Bring Back Paulo Sergio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 (edited) Left wing are better people and their vote is always the well thought out and correct one. They work harder but have less money so want more of everyone elses. Their view is the only one and if you disagree you are a racist They care more and contribute more and are completely selfless in all they do. They are peace loving but will bully and attack all those who oppose and they are for the worker but demand you to be sacked if they do not agree. Right wing just gets on with it. Edited January 29, 2020 by i8hibsh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maple Leaf Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 3 hours ago, i8hibsh said: Left wing are better people and their vote is always the well thought out and correct one. They work harder but have less money so want more of everyone elses. Their view is the only one and if you disagree you are a racist They care more and contribute more and are completely selfless in all they do. They are peace loving but will bully and attack all those who oppose and they are for the worker but demand you to be sacked if they do not agree. Right wing just gets on with it. Your sarcasm is clear and your descriptions are wildly exaggerated. You can do better than that. Right wing people like Hitler and Mussolini "just get on with it"? OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gashauskis9 Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 The whole concept of left and right wing is pointless. We keep getting told that political allegiance is a straight line spectrum, when the reality is that it’s more of a sphere. Brexit being a fine example, where you couldn’t differentiate between the far left and far right most of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 4 hours ago, Maple Leaf said: Your sarcasm is clear and your descriptions are wildly exaggerated. You can do better than that. Right wing people like Hitler and Mussolini "just get on with it"? OK. They were both left wing. Ipso facto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Findlay Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 2 hours ago, Gashauskis9 said: The whole concept of left and right wing is pointless. We keep getting told that political allegiance is a straight line spectrum, when the reality is that it’s more of a sphere. Brexit being a fine example, where you couldn’t differentiate between the far left and far right most of the time. That's the thing, the far right and the far left they always meet in the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boab Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 W*nk...Good guy ! Farage is a w*nk ! My MP is a good guy. That’s how it rolls in my world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 6 hours ago, Gashauskis9 said: The whole concept of left and right wing is pointless. We keep getting told that political allegiance is a straight line spectrum, when the reality is that it’s more of a sphere. Brexit being a fine example, where you couldn’t differentiate between the far left and far right most of the time. We live in an age of identity politics sadly Gas. Never even used to classify myself as anything until a few years back. The way the world is today I certainly am right wing. I used to see things from the left, at least in part but now I am 100% on the right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maple Leaf Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 5 hours ago, i8hibsh said: They were both left wing. Ipso facto. Nope. They were both Fascists: Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and strong regimentation of society and of the economy which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpie Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 18 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said: Nope. They were both Fascists: Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and strong regimentation of society and of the economy which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe. That almost sounds like someone I have heard about, I'll have to see if I can remember. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjambo Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 1 minute ago, bobsharp said: That almost sounds like someone I have heard about, I'll have to see if I can remember. In order to grow and to function correctly, fascism needs a solid support of subservient underlings willing to administer and execute the leader's wishes, or at the very least not to stand in his or her way in cases where the leader's actions are immoral or wrong. Yup, that's got me thinking too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 31 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said: Nope. They were both Fascists: Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and strong regimentation of society and of the economy which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe. Sigh. During the time of their importance they were known as left wing fascists. Fascism at this time in the world was exclusive to left wing politics. Only since this time has the entire concept been forced to the right to sit snuggly as a convenient way to hide their shame and inconvenience for leftists. These are known facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpie Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 12 minutes ago, i8hibsh said: Sigh. During the time of their importance they were known as left wing fascists. Fascism at this time in the world was exclusive to left wing politics. Only since this time has the entire concept been forced to the right to sit snuggly as a convenient way to hide their shame and inconvenience for leftists. These are known facts. Wasn't Hitler inclined to attack certain groups of people, such as Jews, Communists, Union leaders, and their unions. Did Hitler not also in a right wing style also use the economy to stimulate employment to prove his interest in the people, when in truth such things as the Autobahn was created for the efficient transportation of war goods and supplies. As I am becoming used to in todays environment did he not also lie about the produce of all the factories which were contrary to end of WW1 agreements, and unlawfully produced weapons of war, and aircraft etc. There does seem to be a pretty strong case to argue now about a right wing leader who will blatantly lie and disparage as Hitler particularly done to anyone who disagrees with him. Didn't read about these things, may not be knowledgeable because I have only lived through them and seen the terrible,terrible results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maple Leaf Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 31 minutes ago, i8hibsh said: Sigh. During the time of their importance they were known as left wing fascists. Fascism at this time in the world was exclusive to left wing politics. Only since this time has the entire concept been forced to the right to sit snuggly as a convenient way to hide their shame and inconvenience for leftists. These are known facts. *sigh* Those are not facts, those are opinions. Facists were right-wing (the people you admire) who hated communists, who are left-wing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boab Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 Ah’ll give ye Fascism. Deport everyone under a certain I.Q. to mainland Europe and replace them with Europeans who will further the society for the benefit of all. Let Europe suffer these numbskulls ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tian447 Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 (edited) 16 hours ago, Maple Leaf said: Interesting quiz. Here's me: I'm apparently a bit more "Stalin"-y, and you're a bit more "Gandhi"-y, according to their baseline! Edited January 30, 2020 by tian447 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmiyaHearts Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 I don't full understand what it means to be either but I done that test, out of interest. Basically, I'm Ghandi.... or @Maple Leaf ! Economic Left/Right: -4.38 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.54 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpie Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 I finished it and it appears I am Ghandiish, I was sure I would tend to a more right result. I guess I am in a way Righteous.🤒 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjambo Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 Here I am. Probably shows why I'm dissatisfied with the current state of UK politics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maple Leaf Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 @OmiyaHearts and @redjambo. We're so close that we should form our very own wee hand-wringing, pants-wetting, pinko political party. Left wing, of course! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjambo Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 1 minute ago, Maple Leaf said: @OmiyaHearts and @redjambo. We're so close that we should form our very own wee hand-wringing, pants-wetting, pinko political party. Left wing, of course! I'll get our draft constitution written up on recycled organic non-bleached fair-trade paper at the double! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maple Leaf Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 28 minutes ago, bobsharp said: I finished it and it appears I am Ghandiish, I was sure I would tend to a more right result. I guess I am in a way Righteous.🤒 You'll need to learn how to work a spinning wheel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpruceBringsteen Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 Sign me up for the JKB Chomsky Bragg club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpie Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said: You'll need to learn how to work a spinning wheel. Well at least I have the hair style for it, and the physique. Edited January 30, 2020 by bobsharp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smack Posted January 30, 2020 Author Share Posted January 30, 2020 3 hours ago, Maple Leaf said: Nope. They were both Fascists: Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and strong regimentation of society and of the economy which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe. Ann Budge? That was for you comrade I8 ✊ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoolfordsHearts Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 Are you more likely to be left wing if you're a left footer than being right wing if you're a right footer?..... 🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 "Stalin and Hitler were both far-left because Stalin called himself a communist and the Nazis called themselves national socialists" How much more ignorant can you be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 Mine, although I did this test ages ago and the questions have certainly been updated for 2020. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leginten Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 On 30/01/2020 at 17:21, Cade said: "Stalin and Hitler were both far-left because Stalin called himself a communist and the Nazis called themselves national socialists" How much more ignorant can you be? Agreed. It’s a bit like believing that countries which include the word “democratic” in their title will be shining examples of democracy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazio Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 On 30/01/2020 at 16:20, Maple Leaf said: You'll need to learn how to work a spinning wheel. The only spin there is him pretending to be something he isn’t. He did very well from the sandals and robes image but the fact is he was a very educated man who was a qualified lawyer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpie Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 Trump is different than Hitler and Mussolini, they were both veterans who served their Country in a war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toggie88 Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 (edited) On 30/01/2020 at 15:19, OmiyaHearts said: I don't full understand what it means to be either but I done that test, out of interest. Basically, I'm Ghandi.... or @Maple Leaf ! Economic Left/Right: -4.38 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.54 I done this about 6 months ago, and landed roundabout where you are. I've done this same test for years, noticed myself drifting slightly over time towards the centre (on Left/Right axis) but shifted substantially more Libertarian. When I first did this (must have been 19/20), I was just below the centre line on between Auth/Libn. Edited February 1, 2020 by Toggie88 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smack Posted February 1, 2020 Author Share Posted February 1, 2020 4 hours ago, bobsharp said: Trump is different than Hitler and Mussolini, they were both veterans who served their Country in a war. Hitler served Germany. He was Austrian. 5 hours ago, Tazio said: The only spin there is him pretending to be something he isn’t. He did very well from the sandals and robes image but the fact is he was a very educated man who was a qualified lawyer. Interesting point. Fairly well qualified and travelled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpie Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 1 hour ago, Smack said: Hitler served Germany. He was Austrian. Interesting point. Fairly well qualified and travelled. I do not dispute that, but he served Germany as a soldier and served Germany as a Leader, Germany and Austria were very close in fact had been related prior to 1866. I was born and raised in Scotland but I am now Canadian, it would appear to me that Hitler had made a similar choice whether by actual immigration and citizenship application or just opting to domicile there.. Despite this my point is that he fought for Germany when they needed men, and went on to become a powerful man in German politics. I apologise for not being absolutely precise, but I have every confidence that I will be corrected promptly when required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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