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Masonic

russia olympic and world cup ban

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Hugh Phamism

"Despite the ban, Russia will be able to compete at Euro 2020 - in which St Petersburg will be a host city - as European football's governing body Uefa is not defined as a 'major event organisation' with regards to rulings on anti-doping breaches."

 

WTF...:verymad:

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AlimOzturk

I know the pressure these guys have and put upon themselves but, personally, If was an elite athlete doping and beating clean athletes I know I wouldnt be satisfied with my achievments. 

 

Would feel fake

 

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Masonic
8 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

I know the pressure these guys have and put upon themselves but, personally, If was an elite athlete doping and beating clean athletes I know I wouldnt be satisfied with my achievments. 

 

Would feel fake

 

 

the problem is if several of your competition is doing it theres an incentive there to get even also the sponsorship money that comes from sport is astronomical the difference in being just one place away can be millions of pounds annually

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I P Knightley
8 minutes ago, Masonic said:

 

the problem is if several of your competition is doing it theres an incentive there to get even also the sponsorship money that comes from sport is astronomical the difference in being just one place away can be millions of pounds annually

They all convince themselves that the other guys are at it, without evidence (maybe based on Rocky IV) and so throw in a preemptive juicing. I don't believe that Russians are the only ones actually at it; not even the only country who's at it on a national scale. When it's on that scale, it's not just about sponsorship money; that would come down to individuals or teams. 

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AlimOzturk
22 minutes ago, Masonic said:

 

the problem is if several of your competition is doing it theres an incentive there to get even also the sponsorship money that comes from sport is astronomical the difference in being just one place away can be millions of pounds annually

 

Get that. Cant be easy but I would hope I would have bit of pride in my own abilities that I could do it without juicing. 

 

Maybe I am deluding myself. How much of an advantage can it give? I mean, would Lance Armstrong not have done as well without juicing?  

Edited by AlimOzturk

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Jambo-Jimbo
1 hour ago, AlimOzturk said:

I know the pressure these guys have and put upon themselves but, personally, If was an elite athlete doping and beating clean athletes I know I wouldnt be satisfied with my achievments. 

 

Would feel fake

 

 

Winning and the money that goes with it is all that matters, besides as another poster said they are convinced that everyone else is at it, therefore they feel that they are justified in doping.

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jake

Theres a history of double standards involving the west and Russia.

 

Is this one of these?

Are all of our athletes clean ?

Is this because its state sponsored rather than privately financed?

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Stokesy
6 hours ago, AlimOzturk said:

 

Get that. Cant be easy but I would hope I would have bit of pride in my own abilities that I could do it without juicing. 

 

Maybe I am deluding myself. How much of an advantage can it give? I mean, would Lance Armstrong not have done as well without juicing?  

 

David Millar abandoned the tour the year he did it before he started juicing. Qualifying for the tour without juicing was probably beyond most riders.

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Jambo-Jimbo
34 minutes ago, jake said:

Theres a history of double standards involving the west and Russia.

 

Is this one of these?

Are all of our athletes clean ?

Is this because its state sponsored rather than privately financed?

 

Of course there is, but that's not the issue here.

 

As far as I'm aware, Russia was for all intents and purposes on a sort of probation (for lack of a better term), anyway whilst on probation they supplied WADA with documents from their drug testing of their athletes which had been clearly tampered with and altered, thereby leaving WADA with no other option than to ban Russia for another 4 years.

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jake
24 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Of course there is, but that's not the issue here.

 

As far as I'm aware, Russia was for all intents and purposes on a sort of probation (for lack of a better term), anyway whilst on probation they supplied WADA with documents from their drug testing of their athletes which had been clearly tampered with and altered, thereby leaving WADA with no other option than to ban Russia for another 4 years.

The most recent study I could see was 57% of top athletes using drugs.

Not all Russian athletes were banned.

And most of them who were had their bans for life lifted by court of sport arbitration.

 

Caught no doubt .

Caught on purpose though.

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Jambo-Jimbo
2 minutes ago, jake said:

The most recent study I could see was 57% of top athletes using drugs.

Not all Russian athletes were banned.

And most of them who were had their bans for life lifted by court of sport arbitration.

 

Caught no doubt .

Caught on purpose though.

 

Some are clean you know.

 

Didn't a lot of the info came from a whistle blower who I think was the head of the Russian anti-doping agency, so of course WADA would know who to target.

 

Not heard that anybody got a life ban, first I've heard of that, usually it's 1 or 2 years. 

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jake
5 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Some are clean you know.

 

Didn't a lot of the info came from a whistle blower who I think was the head of the Russian anti-doping agency, so of course WADA would know who to target.

 

Not heard that anybody got a life ban, first I've heard of that, usually it's 1 or 2 years. 

Yes it was a whistleblower.

Funny how some are acted upon and others are jailed.

 

Yes the court of sporting arbitration also wondered at the severity of the bans .

 

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jake

February 18th 2018 the lifetime bans were lifted.

 

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Jambo-Jimbo
4 minutes ago, jake said:

Yes it was a whistleblower.

Funny how some are acted upon and others are jailed.

 

Yes the court of sporting arbitration also wondered at the severity of the bans .

 

 

Personally, if you cheat your out, period, no if's no but's gtf out of the sport, and that applies to everyone irrespective where your from.

I would allow some leniency in certain circumstances but it would have to be a really good excuse.

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jake
Just now, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Personally, if you cheat your out, period, no if's no but's gtf out of the sport, and that applies to everyone irrespective where your from.

I would allow some leniency in certain circumstances but it would have to be a really good excuse.

Well that's it .

Ignore me mate I just think its coincidental given the Ukraine peace talks.

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Jambo-Jimbo
4 minutes ago, jake said:

Well that's it .

Ignore me mate I just think its coincidental given the Ukraine peace talks.

 

Just my opinion Jake, I was clean my entire career therefore I have no time whatsoever for cheats.

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jake
14 hours ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Just my opinion Jake, I was clean my entire career therefore I have no time whatsoever for cheats.

Your opinion is spot on bud.

Can I ask your career?

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Justin Z
16 hours ago, jake said:

Theres a history of double standards involving the west and Russia.

 

Is this one of these?

Are all of our athletes clean ?

Is this because its state sponsored rather than privately financed?

 

image.png.89b25b79e14d0e65f11cec0aba35f409.png

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TheOak88

At the end of the day, everyone is doing it so to be competitive you have to join in. 

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TheOak88
23 hours ago, AlimOzturk said:

I know the pressure these guys have and put upon themselves but, personally, If was an elite athlete doping and beating clean athletes I know I wouldnt be satisfied with my achievments. 

 

Would feel fake

 

 

Even if it is your career and how you make a living you wouldn’t do it?

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Jambo-Jimbo
33 minutes ago, jake said:

Your opinion is spot on bud.

Can I ask your career?

 

A runner, started off half-mile & miler as a youth aged 12 or 13 then went into sprinting by my late teens and that continued into my mid/late 20's, succession of achilles injuries and a torn hammy eventually finished me off.  This was in the 70's & 80's on the Professional circuit, mostly around the Borders, North of England and some through the West and North of Scotland & of course Meadowbank at New Year. 

Never won anything, no even close, but even back then drug cheats were starting to be an issue, as I said I was clean as were most other folks back then, but there was always one or two or more who 'took supplements' shall I say.

 

I never minded getting beat fair and square by someone faster, but when that winning edge was achieved by 'popping some pills' then that used to grate my gears, I would think near enough everybody who is clean hates those folks who can only achieve success by illegal means, that is why I've no time for them and if I had my way they would be out of the sport forever, for life.    

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TheOak88
13 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

A runner, started off half-mile & miler as a youth aged 12 or 13 then went into sprinting by my late teens and that continued into my mid/late 20's, succession of achilles injuries and a torn hammy eventually finished me off.  This was in the 70's & 80's on the Professional circuit, mostly around the Borders, North of England and some through the West and North of Scotland & of course Meadowbank at New Year. 

Never won anything, no even close, but even back then drug cheats were starting to be an issue, as I said I was clean as were most other folks back then, but there was always one or two or more who 'took supplements' shall I say.

 

I never minded getting beat fair and square by someone faster, but when that winning edge was achieved by 'popping some pills' then that used to grate my gears, I would think near enough everybody who is clean hates those folks who can only achieve success by illegal means, that is why I've no time for them and if I had my way they would be out of the sport forever, for life.    

 

Out of interest back then in the 70s/80s how did you find out about drug cheats at your level? Were there guys regularly getting caught back then?

 

Just wondered if the drug testing was as sophisticated back then as it is now. 

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Jambo-Jimbo
9 minutes ago, TheOak88 said:

 

Out of interest back then in the 70s/80s how did you find out about drug cheats at your level? Were there guys regularly getting caught back then?

 

Just wondered if the drug testing was as sophisticated back then as it is now. 

 

Random testing and only at the meeting and was basically a pee sample, that's how basic it was back then and you'd have to have been really unlucky or stupid to get caught, because as we all know you could stop taking drugs a few days or so before and it probably wouldn't show up in your pee if you did happen to get tested, thereby making the chances of getting caught slim at best, still some folks did get caught but not many though.

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jake
2 hours ago, Justin Z said:

 

image.png.89b25b79e14d0e65f11cec0aba35f409.png

Ah but.

When I'm less busy I will respond to that.

 

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TheOak88
37 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Random testing and only at the meeting and was basically a pee sample, that's how basic it was back then and you'd have to have been really unlucky or stupid to get caught, because as we all know you could stop taking drugs a few days or so before and it probably wouldn't show up in your pee if you did happen to get tested, thereby making the chances of getting caught slim at best, still some folks did get caught but not many though.

 

What was the availability of Performance Enhancing Drugs like back then? Fairly easy for say a high level amateur to get a hold of?

 

I always assumed back then it would really just be professional sports people who have easy access to drugs. 

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Jambo-Jimbo
9 minutes ago, TheOak88 said:

 

What was the availability of Performance Enhancing Drugs like back then? Fairly easy for say a high level amateur to get a hold of?

 

I always assumed back then it would really just be professional sports people who have easy access to drugs. 

 

The availablity would have been much much more limited than it is today, but if you had the right contacts then you'd be able to get anabolic steroids, which were the most common of the PED's back then.

 

You have to remember back then was a much more simplier and innocent time, drugs were something you got of the doctor when you were ill, it wasn't until I was in my 20's and started to notice people whom you'd been running against for a few years starting to look like the incredible hulk that you started to think wtf in going on here.

 

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RS86
On 09/12/2019 at 11:18, AlimOzturk said:

If was an elite athlete doping and beating clean athletes I know I wouldnt be satisfied with my achievments. 

 

Would feel fake

 

 

Trouble is at elite level clean athletes are few and far between in all sports

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ri Alban
5 hours ago, RS86 said:

 

Trouble is at elite level clean athletes are few and far between in all sports

Exactly! But saying that, I have a serious problem with PEDS in combat and heavy contact (NFL,Rugby) sports. Prison sentences would have the desired effect.

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RS86
8 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Exactly! But saying that, I have a serious problem with PEDS in combat and heavy contact (NFL,Rugby) sports. Prison sentences would have the desired effect.

 

Absolutely agree, when you are using drugs to hurt people rather than put-compete that puts a different spin on it. Some people argue that PEDs don't improve technical ability but you just need to look at some of the MMA fighters before and after being caught to see they made a noticeable difference (guys in UFC like Belfort, Overeem, Wanderlei).

 

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ri Alban
6 hours ago, RS86 said:

 

Absolutely agree, when you are using drugs to hurt people rather than put-compete that puts a different spin on it. Some people argue that PEDs don't improve technical ability but you just need to look at some of the MMA fighters before and after being caught to see they made a noticeable difference (guys in UFC like Belfort, Overeem, Wanderlei).

 

Jose Aldo is another, then there's Jon Jones, the biggest cheat in all of sport. 

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Masonic
On 13/12/2019 at 15:40, ri Alban said:

Jose Aldo is another, then there's Jon Jones, the biggest cheat in all of sport. 

 

jon jones hiding under rings and pulsing picograms jeff done a great job at the ufc and usada

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Masonic
On 09/12/2019 at 10:51, Hugh Phamism said:

"Despite the ban, Russia will be able to compete at Euro 2020 - in which St Petersburg will be a host city - as European football's governing body Uefa is not defined as a 'major event organisation' with regards to rulings on anti-doping breaches."

 

WTF...:verymad:

 

in december i looked at km coverage in the europa league and champions league

 

1. slavia prague owned by chinese investors

2. bayer leverkusen owned by a pharmaceutical company

3. red bull leipzig & salzburg owned by red bull

 

also rangers were the fittest uk team :D

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