U.S. Politics megathread (merged)

[ri Alban]

4 hours ago, Dawnrazor said:

I'd be interested in how the "Scottish Military" would work in the event of Independence. 

Why would we need a military might. Anyway, we can reinstall all the regiments that were wiped off the face of the earth. 

This about Trump, anyway. 

[ri Alban]

8 hours ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

What about our special relationship with USA?

 

Aye, the UK are very special. 

[Justin Z]

Hadn't seen this yet, apologies if it was already posted. Good times.

 

Trump’s Business Partners Allegedly Involved In Human Trafficking, Mafia Matters, Probable Money Laundering

 

The group would comprise an extraordinary list of associates for any international businessman, let alone for the sitting president of the United States.

 

Trump Organization representatives did not respond to requests for comment. In 2016, Trump Organization lawyer Alan Garten insisted that the business conducts thorough due diligence on its outside partners. “We do extensive vetting on everyone we do business with,” he told Forbes at the time. “We do background checks on an international level. We do background checks on a local level. We check every available database commonly used. We use outside experts who specialize in this area. And that’s in addition to looking at the deal itself. So extensive vetting goes on.”

 

[Justin Z]

More masterful politicking by the Dems.

 

 

Trump's response? Because of course it is:

 

 

Team Biden doing literally everything in their power to lose this election at the moment.

[JFK-1]

From 1984. Does it sound like the end game has now been reached? He speaks of things such as "bringing a country to crisis" before toppling them. Is Trump that crisis?

 

 

[Justin Z]

I'm saying this right now: even though progressives will be blamed by the Dem establishment if Biden somehow manages to **** this up, it's not our ****ing fault  

 

[DETTY29]

I know what Biden is trying to say but he has played right into Trump's hands there.

 

The irony of all irony is that more riots fall right into Trump's hands and not only knows it, will be hoping they continue.

 

Edit - Remember, what was it 'if I shot someone on 5th Avenue, it would get me more votes'

Edited August 31, 2020 by DETTY29

[Justin Z]

35 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

I know what Biden is trying to say but he has played right into Trump's hands there.

 

The irony of all irony is that more riots fall right into Trump's hands and not only knows it, will be hoping they continue.

 

Edit - Remember, what was it 'if I shot someone on 5th Avenue, it would get me more votes'

 

Exactly. And yet they're going at Trump with this civility-minded nonsense. He will take civility and do what he's done here, twist Biden's words and/or just flat out make shit up, because that's what he does.

 

One person called Trump the **** out and it was Bernie Sanders. Like I've said previously, it's clear the Dem establishment has no real desire to see Trump out of the White House.

[Norm]

8 hours ago, SwindonJambo said:

The founding principle of NATO is that an attack on one member is an attack on all. So if one member is attacked, the other 29 are committed to coming to their aid. About 10 of the 30 current members are smaller than Scotland. 

Devious Putin is trying to persuade thick as shit Trump to withdraw, which would be a disaster.

 

There has not been one military attack on these isles since 1945 and we've the powerful deterrent of NATO to thank for that. Far too many people take peace for granted.

I get that. The point I was making is that due to our proximity to rUK, which is a hugely important member of NATO, the strong relationship we'd still have with it and the strategic risk to rUK and NATO of an independent, non-NATO Scotland suddenly being invaded by Russia, they'd steam in anyway. It'd be too much of a risk for NATO to stand by and let Scotland get ****ed. 

 

Put it this way. If Russia suddenly rocked up in Dublin, a non-NATO member, do you think the rest would just go "Yeah, alright then. It's all yours." 

 

Basically, I'm saying that due to just being so close and connected to rUK, we could basically enjoy the benefit of the deterrent that membership provides without having to actually be members. 

[JackLadd]

Whatever Biden says will be twisted and spun by Trump via tweet. Biden looks and sounds like a president to me, everything that Trump isn't. 

[JFK-1]

 

[SwindonJambo]

12 minutes ago, Normthebarman said:

I get that. The point I was making is that due to our proximity to rUK, which is a hugely important member of NATO, the strong relationship we'd still have with it and the strategic risk to rUK and NATO of an independent, non-NATO Scotland suddenly being invaded by Russia, they'd steam in anyway. It'd be too much of a risk for NATO to stand by and let Scotland get ****ed. 

 

Put it this way. If Russia suddenly rocked up in Dublin, a non-NATO member, do you think the rest would just go "Yeah, alright then. It's all yours." 

 

Basically, I'm saying that due to just being so close and connected to rUK, we could basically enjoy the benefit of the deterrent that membership provides without having to actually be members. 

 

I’m still firmly of the opinion that if it ever happens, an Indy Scotland should join NATO asap. It’s much better to be full members od the gang. It’s a matter of security. 2% of GDP (regardless of how big or small that is) is a small price to pay for security and peace of mind. Small countries can do fine but international relationships are very important. Denmark and Norway are successful small countries and something for Scotland to aspire to.

 

i hear what you say but I’d much rather rUK were obliged to pile in and help rather than it being merely very likely to help due to circumstances. I tend towards the Union btw but it’s Scotland’s choice and if it does choose to go it’s own way, I want it to go as well as possible. I lived there until I was 14, have never lost my accent and could well return one day.

 

Getting back onto the odious Trumpet man, don’t be shocked if he gets his second term. He’s so thick that Putin could easily persuade him to pull the US out of NATO and that would be a disaster. With no US presence, Russia could walk all over Europe. It would certainly bully and coerce as it already has with Crimea and is currently threatening to do with Belarus.

[JFK-1]

 

[kingsknowe_jambo]

[JFK-1]

Trump is Running As If Someone Else is President

 

[JFK-1]

You have to wonder how bad this is going to get over the next couple of months. I think we can be certain the orange maniac will continue encouraging it and even more so if he continues running such poor polling forecasts.

If he thinks he will lose this election then a quote from Bruce Wayne's esteemed butler Alfred comes to mind. "some men just want to watch the world burn"

Trump Supporters Drive Into People, Shoot People Dead
 

 

[JFK-1]

Of Trump’s 2000 run for President, Christopher Hitchens wrote this: “Donald Trump — a ludicrous figure, but at least he’s lived it up a bit in the real world and at least he’s worked out how to cover 90 per cent of his skull with 30 per cent of his hair.“

[ri Alban]

JZ making excuses for enabling Trump to victory. 

[DETTY29]

2 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

You have to wonder how bad this is going to get over the next couple of months. I think we can be certain the orange maniac will continue encouraging it and even more so if he continues running such poor polling forecasts.

If he thinks he will lose this election then a quote from Bruce Wayne's esteemed butler Alfred comes to mind. "some men just want to watch the world burn"

Trump Supporters Drive Into People, Shoot People Dead
 

 

The looting and rioting is wrong, but people have the democratic right to protest, peacefully, which Biden is trying to say.

 

But the the looting and rioting are consequences, symptons of the ultimate root cause which is what politicians should have a duty to get to the bottom of and try and fix.

 

But as always they don't, notably the more extreme sides of the political divide who play populations off each other, put the blame on and persecute demographics for their own, their families and their super rich pals personal gain.  Or if not rich, with a view to getting there.

 

As I alluded to on the BLM thread, if the rioting and looting stopped but his ratings didn't improve, Trump would be hoping for another black person to be shot and killed by the police so there is a chance it would start again and sends the reds in to prove he is tough on law and order.

 

What's a few lives, a bit of damage to property, even better if it was to someone who was considering on not voting for you because they had just about figured you out, but had last time.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 1, 2020 by DETTY29

[JFK-1]

1 hour ago, DETTY29 said:

But the the looting and rioting are consequences, symptons of the ultimate root cause which is what politicians should have a duty to get to the bottom of and try and fix.

 

I suspect the looting has absolutely nothing to do with any shootings of black men or anybody else for that matter. It's simple opportunism.

Exactly the same thing happened in London after the police shooting of Mark Duggan. A man known by police to be involved in crime including gun crime. His activities could get anybody shot.

What were they rioting and looting for? Because British cops are shooting black men in great numbers? British cops rarely shoot anybody at all far less black men.

It's mere opportunism. Crowds on the streets creating a screen of confusion. Police tied up with it and have difficulty moving around. Excellent opportunity to loot.

That's predominately all it is both in Britain and the US. it would be happening if it were thousands of animal rights protesters. Thousands of nuclear disarmament protesters. Anything.

[DETTY29]

15 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

I suspect the looting has absolutely nothing to do with any shootings of black men or anybody else for that matter. It's simple opportunism.

Exactly the same thing happened in London after the police shooting of Mark Duggan. A man known by police to be involved in crime including gun crime. His activities could get anybody shot.

What were they rioting and looting for? Because British cops are shooting black men in great numbers? British cops rarely shoot anybody at all far less black men.

It's mere opportunism. Crowds on the streets creating a screen of confusion. Police tied up with it and have difficulty moving around. Excellent opportunity to loot.

That's predominately all it is both in Britain and the US. it would be happening if it were thousands of animal rights protesters. Thousands of nuclear disarmament protesters. Anything.

I get the Duggan one more because our police don't tend to go around shooting people unless they have made a serious error of judgement but thousands of middle class hippies (huge generalisation) have a cause but will go home to their mortgages houses, trebled in value, one maybe 2 electric cars, ethical pension, private health and so on (again massive generalisation) and not be dealt like shit on a day to day basis.

[JFK-1]

55 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

I get the Duggan one more because our police don't tend to go around shooting people unless they have made a serious error of judgement but thousands of middle class hippies (huge generalisation) have a cause but will go home to their mortgages houses, trebled in value, one maybe 2 electric cars, ethical pension, private health and so on (again massive generalisation) and not be dealt like shit on a day to day basis.

 

My point is the actual real protesters are not the looters. The looters are a faction who will lam on to any large protest about anything at all then begin looting at  a suitable time.

It doesn't matter to them what the cause is. They don't care about a cause.  They went there with the sole intention of looting if the opportunity presents itself. Vandalism, starting fires etc, simply provides more cover for the looting as it distracts police.

[DETTY29]

21 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

My point is the actual real protesters are not the looters. The looters are a faction who will lam on to any large protest about anything at all then begin looting at  a suitable time.

It doesn't matter to them what the cause is. They don't care about a cause.  They went there with the sole intention of looting if the opportunity presents itself. Vandalism, starting fires etc, simply provides more cover for the looting as it distracts police.

Yep but if you go right back to the initial riots when did the looting start?

 

10 mins, an hour, 2 hours after the pea duck protests began.  It took the over handed policing to start treating the peaceful protesters like deal that tensions over spilled and the opportunists took over.  Again IMO a symptom and not the cause.

[Beni]

Obviously if you're a bunch of shadowy thugs traveling across the country to wreak havoc, you'd dress identically and all travel on the same flight, right? Unfortunately that's all we can know at this stage because of the investigation. 

Shooting someone in the back 7 times is like missing a put in golf.

 

[jack D and coke]

I’m really confused at what’s happening over there I’ll be honest. This can’t all be Trump’s fault this has surely been building for years?
Also not sure what the Democrats are playing at having another almost unelectable tosser like Biden running. Surely put someone decent up and it’s a tap in? Hilary and now that creep? It was like Labour here they didn’t want to win with Corbyn in the driving seat ffs. I can see Trump winning again tbh. What a state of affairs...

[Governor Tarkin]

9 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

I’m really confused at what’s happening over there I’ll be honest. This can’t all be Trump’s fault this has surely been building for years?
Also not sure what the Democrats are playing at having another almost unelectable tosser like Biden running. Surely put someone decent up and it’s a tap in? Hilary and now that creep? It was like Labour here they didn’t want to win with Corbyn in the driving seat ffs. I can see Trump winning again tbh. What a state of affairs...

 

It's mental, eh.

 

I think most of us over here are looking at America with a similar level of puzzlement.

 

[jack D and coke]

6 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

It's mental, eh.

 

I think most of us over here are looking at America with a similar level of puzzlement.

 

America has always been a bit nuts but watching people driving about in trucks paint balling others and driving into crowds, mental patients running up and down streets with semi automatic rifles, people dying, looting, fires, police out of control and both of them fanning the flames and blaming each other imo. What in the **** is going on 😳 it’s going to need a foreign peacekeeping force at this rate. 

 

[AlphonseCapone]

21 hours ago, SwindonJambo said:

 

You are confusing the EU with NATO. The EU is an economic bloc, not a military one. We are founder members of NATO and permanent members of the UN Security Council. Our relationship with our NATO Allies who also happen to be EU members too is unaffected by leaving the EU. Norway have twice voted against joining the EU but are NATO members.

 

i believe it’s SNP Policy for Scotland to join NATO and thank goodness for that. To join, you have to spend 2% or more of your GDP on military and that would be much easier to achieve than meeting the criteria to join the EU. Poland joined NATO in 1999, but didn’t join the EU until 5 years later. It’s a dangerous World out there with nasties like Putin all too keen to bully and intimidate. Scotland would probably do fine independent, but it must make the right choices and the protective umbrella of NATO is much more important than EU membership. It’s over 75 years since this country was directly attacked by a foreign power and we have NATO to thank for that.

 

 

 

Sorry mate, feels like flawed logic here. Ireland are in the EU and not Nato and haven't been attacked. Who do they thank? 

 

The Russians are mental but there is always logic to their actions. Scotland wouldn't be a physical target. No country in Western Europe will be, regardless of NATO or EU status. 

[Cade]

yet again with the "Russia would invade Scotland if it went independent" pish

 

[SwindonJambo]

1 minute ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

Sorry mate, feels like flawed logic here. Ireland are in the EU and not Nato and haven't been attacked. Who do they thank? 

 

The Russians are mental but there is always logic to their actions. Scotland wouldn't be a physical target. No country in Western Europe will be, regardless of NATO or EU status. 

Things can change very quickly. 75 years of peace has made a lot of people who have never known anything but peace very complacent. I lived through the Cold War and I have friends who grew up in Communist Poland, martial law and all. If Putin knows he has a massive military advantage over Europe, which he would without the US participating in NATO, even if he didn't take any direct action, he would bully, intimidate and coerce. He's a dangerous, nasty piece of work.  It would be naive to believe otherwise.

 

It's SNP policy to join NATO anyway. 

[SwindonJambo]

Just now, Cade said:

yet again with the "Russia would invade Scotland if it went independent" pish

 

No-one's said that.

[Governor Tarkin]

32 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

America has always been a bit nuts but watching people driving about in trucks paint balling others and driving into crowds, mental patients running up and down streets with semi automatic rifles, people dying, looting, fires, police out of control and both of them fanning the flames and blaming each other imo. What in the **** is going on 😳 it’s going to need a foreign peacekeeping force at this rate. 

 

 

The short answer is the emergence of social media.

 

This makes the spread of information and dis-information instantaneous. Very little is vetted or subject to scrutiny, and the loonies have a series of platforms where they can find all the other like-minded loonies regardless of geographical disposition and mobilise whatever shitshow their particular bent desires. Add to that the pre-existing facet of capitalist doctrine which holds the individual over community - and the easily manipulated will feverently convince themselves that they should be off on some sort of personal quasi-religious crusade.

 

Folk are glued to their social media and the guff emanating from their echo chambers becomes gospel.

 

 

Edited September 1, 2020 by Governor Tarkin

[Governor Tarkin]

7 minutes ago, SwindonJambo said:

No-one's said that.

 

Cade responds to what he want's to think you said not what you actually said. That way he can roll out one of his stock replies. He rustles some Jimmies with it though, you have to give him that.

 

Russian bursds but... 

[jack D and coke]

28 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

The short answer is the emergence of social media.

 

This makes the spread of information and dis-information instantaneous. Very little is vetted or subject to scrutiny, and the loonies have a series of platforms where they can find all the other like-minded loonies regardless of geographical disposition and mobilise whatever shitshow their particular bent desires. Add to that the pre-existing facet of capitalist doctrine which holds the individual over community - and the easily manipulated will feverently convince themselves that they should be off on some sort of personal quasi-religious crusade.

 

Folk are glued to their social media and the guff emanating from their echo chambers becomes gospel.

 

 

There’s no doubt social media is a disease aye. It’s hard to pick out who the crazies are anymore though. Doesn’t matter what anyone comes out with now it’s decried as lies from someone else. This has 8 weeks to go over there...😳

And then if both Trump gets in or doesn’t I see more trouble. 

Jeezo...

[Governor Tarkin]

3 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

There’s no doubt social media is a disease aye. It’s hard to pick out who the crazies are anymore though. Doesn’t matter what anyone comes out with now it’s decried as lies from someone else. This has 8 weeks to go over there...😳

And then if both Trump gets in or doesn’t I see more trouble. 

Jeezo...

 

As long as our locals don't run out of beer, jack, we'll get through these troubled times. 

[JackLadd]

Double murderer Rittenhouse is actually the victim per Trump. Now going to pull up in Kenosha and hope for more violence he can blame on Biden. Hope there's a grassy knoll there with a few good guys.

[AlphonseCapone]

54 minutes ago, SwindonJambo said:

Things can change very quickly. 75 years of peace has made a lot of people who have never known anything but peace very complacent. I lived through the Cold War and I have friends who grew up in Communist Poland, martial law and all. If Putin knows he has a massive military advantage over Europe, which he would without the US participating in NATO, even if he didn't take any direct action, he would bully, intimidate and coerce. He's a dangerous, nasty piece of work.  It would be naive to believe otherwise.

 

It's SNP policy to join NATO anyway. 

 

I'm not debating the merits of NATO or the SNP's policy. I'm simply saying the idea that Scotland needs to join NATO to be safe is one I disagree with. Like Ireland, we'd be a small, globally irrelevant nation on the outer edges of Western Europe. If we ever reach the point Russia becomes a physical threat to us, the world we know it will be over because that'll mean other bigger nations that in our way like Germany, France, England, etc are in serious bother as well. 

 

I don't doubt Putin's willingness to bully or coerce and I appreciate your experiences. But Scotland, like most countries on earth, would be mere pawns in global superpower games, in or out NATO.

[The Real Maroonblood]

25 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

As long as our locals don't run out of beer, jack, we'll get through these troubled times. 

🍺🍺🍺🍷🍷

[jack D and coke]

24 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

As long as our locals don't run out of beer, jack, we'll get through these troubled times. 

Shutting my local would see me on the streets, firing paint balls into randoms and looting tbh 😐

[SwindonJambo]

3 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

I'm not debating the merits of NATO or the SNP's policy. I'm simply saying the idea that Scotland needs to join NATO to be safe is one I disagree with. Like Ireland, we'd be a small, globally irrelevant nation on the outer edges of Western Europe. If we ever reach the point Russia becomes a physical threat to us, the world we know it will be over because that'll mean other bigger nations that in our way like Germany, France, England, etc are in serious bother as well. 

 

I don't doubt Putin's willingness to bully or coerce and I appreciate your experiences. But Scotland, like most countries on earth, would be mere pawns in global superpower games, in or out NATO.

 

Fair enough AC, and there's a lot of truth in your last sentence. 

 

In this country back in the day, there were actually people dotted about who built Nuclear bunkers in their gardens!

[SwindonJambo]

34 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

There’s no doubt social media is a disease aye. It’s hard to pick out who the crazies are anymore though. Doesn’t matter what anyone comes out with now it’s decried as lies from someone else. This has 8 weeks to go over there...😳

And then if both Trump gets in or doesn’t I see more trouble. 

Jeezo...

 

I can easily see the US having its biggest Civil Unrest since the 60s. Either outcome will lead to violence imho. Trumpet's crazies armed to the teeth could do a lot of damage. If he loses, just imagine what he's going to be like in the 10 weeks between the election and leaving office. Our electoral system has its faults and not a few of them but at least when the sitting PM loses the election, they're out on their arse the very next day.

[Cade]

Pickup trucks ✔️

Multiple weapons ✔️

Unregulated militia ✔️

Twisted religious beliefs ✔️

Love a flag ✔️

 

In the middle east we drone strike pricks like that.

 

[SwindonJambo]

42 minutes ago, Cade said:

Pickup trucks ✔️

Multiple weapons ✔️

Unregulated militia ✔️

Twisted religious beliefs ✔️

Love a flag ✔️

 

In the middle east we drone strike pricks like that.

 

Bloody hell! And you can be sure Trumpet Man won't condemn them because they support him. There are some proper heidbangers over there. It's all going to kick off soon methinks.

[Beni]

2 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

There’s no doubt social media is a disease aye. It’s hard to pick out who the crazies are anymore though. Doesn’t matter what anyone comes out with now it’s decried as lies from someone else. This has 8 weeks to go over there...😳

And then if both Trump gets in or doesn’t I see more trouble. 

Jeezo...

 

Saw a Twitter thread yesterday where someone apes the modern trend to defend the indefensible if it suits their political agenda, I thought it was quite funny.

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/gregmlarsen/status/1300298591051735040/retweets/with_comments

[jack D and coke]

27 minutes ago, fancy a brew said:

 

Saw a Twitter thread yesterday where someone apes the modern trend to defend the indefensible if it suits their political agenda, I thought it was quite funny.

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/gregmlarsen/status/1300298591051735040/retweets/with_comments

I seen that yesterday👍🏼

[Sharpie]

4 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

I’m really confused at what’s happening over there I’ll be honest. This can’t all be Trump’s fault this has surely been building for years?
Also not sure what the Democrats are playing at having another almost unelectable tosser like Biden running. Surely put someone decent up and it’s a tap in? Hilary and now that creep? It was like Labour here they didn’t want to win with Corbyn in the driving seat ffs. I can see Trump winning again tbh. What a state of affairs...

 

Its like a pile of dry wood lying harmless for years, it only becomes a danger when someone throws a lit match on it. In the case of riots and looting and police violence, Trump is the lighted match.

[RobboM]

Putin has not needed to fire a bullet to ensure Russian influence in Western Europe and USA. A wee bit of cash backhanders to the Tory party, a little disinformation and a some IT black ops and the whole job is done for less than the price of a single missile.

[Cade]

Racism and far-right ideology has been deeply rooted in the USA for years.

It's always been there.

It's just right out in the open now.

 

[maroonlegions]

21 minutes ago, Cade said:

Racism and far-right ideology has been deeply rooted in the USA for years.

It's always been there.

It's just right out in the open now.

 

And there is only one utter clown of a racist to blame for the rise in racism and the  far right  under his presidency a one "Captain Chaos",  Trump.

 

This clown actually said this in his defence, yes ,defence of this Shitten**** murder...

 

“He was trying to get away from them, I guess, it looks like, and he fell. And then they very violently attacked him … He was in very big trouble. He would have been – you probably would’ve been killed.”

 

 

Trump refuses to condemn teenager accused of killing protesters in Kenosha

THELONDONECONOMIC.COM

 

 

 

[DarthVodka]

4 minutes ago, maroonlegions said:

And there is only one utter clown of a racist to blame for the rise in racism and the  far right  under his presidency a one "Captain Chaos",  Trump.

 

This clown actually said this in his defence, yes ,defence of this Shitten**** murder...

 

“He was trying to get away from them, I guess, it looks like, and he fell. And then they very violently attacked him … He was in very big trouble. He would have been – you probably would’ve been killed.”

 

 

Trump refuses to condemn teenager accused of killing protesters in Kenosha

THELONDONECONOMIC.COM

 

 

 

 

Exactly, someone has come along and poked it with a stick

 

The disorder suits him personally and screw the good of the country