U.S. Politics megathread (merged)

[Justin Z]

Just now, JFK-1 said:

Quite comical isn't it. They emigrated to escape religious persecution. Then the moment they got settled in started practicing religious persecution.

 

In a weird way reminds me of people who advocate for Scottish independence with a big reason being to get out from under the boot of the Westminster establishment and the Union's historic and ongoing trampling on Scots language, culture and identity, while simultaneously giving it an #AllLivesMatter in the other thread.

[Justin Z]

Anyway, what the events of the past couple of days has shown me is that no matter who wins in November, there is going to be widespread civil unrest.

 

Much of the talk on this thread has been about getting Trump out and the insanity of not understanding that that is priority number one. Well, accomplishing that is not going to make this go away, short term or long term. There will be an even bigger fascist ***** up in 2024 or 2028, and just getting Biden in now isn't going to change that.

 

I don't have any idea how we deal with this on a nationwide, structural level, but we need to figure it out. While a Bernie presidency with positive initiatives that benefit 90% of the population could've possibly cooled things off enough, the Dems have shown nothing of the sort will ever be possible.

 

And there's no going back now: There will be violence, no matter what. It needs to be discussed and plans to deal with it, developed.

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

7 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Absolutely. Puritans, Calvinists, various religious wackadoos came over here in droves. By the late 18th century we had thinkers who crafted a Constitution specifically to protect against their excesses. As you can see, it didn't work.

I know. I'm so glad my mum insisted me and my brother were brought up in Scotland. Although the home office weren't going to let us in, because it was my mum who was British, and not my dad. Sexism ruled, even in mid-70s UK. My mum had to write a letter to the home secretary saying how here father, uncles, grandfather, etc fought and died for the country, but she couldn't bring her family over, just because she wasn't a man.

Edited August 28, 2020 by Joey J J Jr Shabadoo

[SwindonJambo]

6 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

I mean, go back a few decades and make it about Rangers and Catholics and it's more or less the same idea.

 

That's actually a good analogy. And I speak as a native of darkest Lanarkshire where mutual mistrust between Catholics and Protestants was still rife until a few short decades ago.

 

In the 1950s my dad's cousin was thrown out the house by her father in the clothes she stood up in when she announced her intention to marry a Catholic. My Grandad took her in as one of his own and gave her away at her wedding a year or 2 later. Such Events were not rare back then.

 

I can easily imagine Uber conservative rural Communities in Southern States still being similar nowadays in their treatment of atheists. 

 

I personally have no issue with what anyone chooses to believe in. It's the brainwashing from birth and intolerance of non conformists I can't abide by. Also many have a sense of moral superiority, when in many cases they are the exact opposite!

 

[JFK-1]

Dawkins replying to a Christian questioning his lack of belief. "What if you're wrong"?
 

 

[SwindonJambo]

10 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Absolutely. Puritans, Calvinists, various religious wackadoos came over here in droves. By the late 18th century we had thinkers who crafted a Constitution specifically to protect against their excesses. As you can see, it didn't work.

😂 Well actually, on reflection 😟

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

7 minutes ago, SwindonJambo said:

 

I personally have no issue with what anyone chooses to believe in. It's the brainwashing from birth and intolerance of non conformists I can't abide by. Also many have a sense of moral superiority, when in many cases they are the exact opposite!

 

First time I went back was 1998 (about a month after pumping vthe Huns in the final). I left Colorado for Edinburgh when I was 10 months old, my dad's side were/from Pomona, Los Angeles. My dad's family are pretty hard core religious, my mum knew them and pointed folk out, one was a pastor that beat his wife, another was addicted to prescription drugs, another was an alcoholic, etc. I had absolutely nothing in common with anyone of them. My dad's cousin (I was staying a few nights at his house)  was sound and, from what I could tell was petty open minded. I was then told he came from work, just before Xmas one year, and his wife had put up a Xmas tree. He threw out in the bin, going on about not having any pagan bullshit under his roof.

He was still pretty sound, though, and loved whisky.

 

[SwindonJambo]

7 minutes ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

First time I went back was 1998 (about a month after pumping vthe Huns in the final). I left Colorado for Edinburgh when I was 10 months old, my dad's side were/from Pomona, Los Angeles. My dad's family are pretty hard core religious, my mum knew them and pointed folk out, one was a pastor that beat his wife, another was addicted to prescription drugs, another was an alcoholic, etc. I had absolutely nothing in common with anyone of them. My dad's cousin (I was staying a few nights at his house)  was sound and, from what I could tell was petty open minded. I was then told he came from work, just before Xmas one year, and his wife had put up a Xmas tree. He threw out in the bin, going on about not having any pagan bullshit under his roof.

He was still pretty sound, though, and loved whisky.

 

 

Blimey! I've only ever visited the US twice, most recently just last June. A very different culture for sure. A very interesting country to visit but I certainly wouldn't want to live there! On the way back I caught a Greyhound from Chicago to New York and there was a 'No Guns' sign  on the double doors entrance to Chicago Greyhound Station.

 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

16 minutes ago, SwindonJambo said:

 

That's actually a good analogy. And I speak as a native of darkest Lanarkshire where mutual mistrust between Catholics and Protestants was still rife until a few short decades ago.

 

In the 1950s my dad's cousin was thrown out the house by her father in the clothes she stood up in when she announced her intention to marry a Catholic. My Grandad took her in as one of his own and gave her away at her wedding a year or 2 later. Such Events were not rare back then.

 

I can easily imagine Uber conservative rural Communities in Southern States still being similar nowadays in their treatment of atheists. 

 

I personally have no issue with what anyone chooses to believe in. It's the brainwashing from birth and intolerance of non conformists I can't abide by. Also many have a sense of moral superiority, when in many cases they are the exact opposite!

 

 

Similar happened to one of Mrs. JJ's Aunts.

This was in Coatbridge in the mid 60's, her aunt was from a staunch protestant family, well she married a catholic, her parents wouldn't let the poor chap in the house, even for a few years after they were married, he wasn't allowed in.

But worst of all was her wedding day, her parents refused to attend as it was going to be in a catholic church, I've seen photo's of her in her wedding dress with her mum & dad who are all dressed up (but definately nowhere to go) and the photos were taken in the house with just the 3 of them.

 

I find the whole thing incredibly sad that Mrs JJ's Grandparents couldn't put aside their religious bigotry just for one day, even just for a few hours to attend the marriage of their youngest daughter, her siblings all attended, but her parents wouldn't, all very sad.

[JFK-1]

 

[SwindonJambo]

11 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Similar happened to one of Mrs. JJ's Aunts.

This was in Coatbridge in the mid 60's, her aunt was from a staunch protestant family, well she married a catholic, her parents wouldn't let the poor chap in the house, even for a few years after they were married, he wasn't allowed in.

But worst of all was her wedding day, her parents refused to attend as it was going to be in a catholic church, I've seen photo's of her in her wedding dress with her mum & dad who are all dressed up (but definately nowhere to go) and the photos were taken in the house with just the 3 of them.

 

I find the whole thing incredibly sad that Mrs JJ's Grandparents couldn't put aside their religious bigotry just for one day, even just for a few hours to attend the marriage of their youngest daughter, her siblings all attended, but her parents wouldn't, all very sad.

 

Coatbridge 😳 Rougher than Blantyre, where my tale of woe took place. At least your wife's uncle presumably was finally  allowed into the house. I believe my dad's cousin was permanently banished by her father, who had 10 other children and was seemingly a nasty piece of work. Even in Lanarkshire, where both our stories happened, things are much improved nowadays. Marriages across the supposed divide are commonplace and there's finally a general acceptance that both halves are members of the same species Unfortunately the OF Football bigotry and violence remains as bad as ever.

 

It says a lot that the siblings all attended, demonstrating a shift in attitudes just one generation down, even back then.

Edited August 28, 2020 by SwindonJambo

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

7 minutes ago, SwindonJambo said:

 

Blimey! I've only ever visited the US twice, most recently just last June. A very different culture for sure. A very interesting country to visit but I certainly wouldn't want to live there! On the way back I caught a Greyhound from Chicago to New York and there was a 'No Guns' sign  on the double doors entrance to Chicago Greyhound Station.

 

My mum told me she had the police called on her, one time. Her family are all from Saughton Mains, Angle Park Terrace and Muriestone and, back in the day women used to children outside an hour or so, pretty no matter the weather (good for the lungs or something). My mum did that with me in Aurora, Colorado someone grassed saying she a bad mother, police turned up guns at the ready.

 

Got other stories from when they stayed in Biloxi, Mississippi, early 60s, when the blacks got rights and JFK was shot (street parties, just about).

[JFK-1]

 

[SwindonJambo]

3 minutes ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

My mum told me she had the police called on her, one time. Her family are all from Saughton Mains, Angle Park Terrace and Muriestone and, back in the day women used to children outside an hour or so, pretty no matter the weather (good for the lungs or something). My mum did that with me in Aurora, Colorado someone grassed saying she a bad mother, police turned up guns at the ready.

 

Got other stories from when they stayed in Biloxi, Mississippi, early 60s, when the blacks got rights and JFK was shot (street parties, just about).

 

It's a crazy, crazy place. @Justin Z's post about the US being founded by extreme fundamentalist religious wackadoos from this country clearly has ramifications which last to this day. as you know far better than me, Gun Policy is a highly emotive topic over there among Republicans and even some Democrats too. If we had their gun laws here, it would be carnage.

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

6 minutes ago, SwindonJambo said:

 

It's a crazy, crazy place. @Justin Z's post about the US being founded by extreme fundamentalist religious wackadoos from this country clearly has ramifications which last to this day. as you know far better than me, Gun Policy is a highly emotive topic over there among Republicans and even some Democrats too. If we had their gun laws here, it would be carnage.

The gun laws are understandable, to an extent, given the size of the country. Some people could be hours from their nearest police station, who want protection. There shouldn't be any need for it in Charleston, or somewhere.

 

I still can't believe my first time in Walmart. Was looking through the CDs , got to the end and the gun display started.

Edited August 28, 2020 by Joey J J Jr Shabadoo

[Jambo-Jimbo]

8 minutes ago, SwindonJambo said:

 

Coatbridge 😳 Rougher than Blantyre, where my tale of woe took place. At least your wife's uncle presumably was finally  allowed into the house. I believe my dad's cousin was permanently banished by her father, who had 10 other children and was seemingly a nasty piece of work. Even in Lanarkshire, where both our stories happened, things are much improved nowadays. Marriages across the supposed divide are commonplace and there's finally a general acceptance that both halves are members of the same species Unfortunately the OF Football bigotry and violence remains as bad as ever.

 

It says a lot that the siblings all attended, demonstrating a shift in attitudes just one generation down, even back then.

 

He was and they all became the best of friends.........eventually.

It's better nowadays but when you have primary school children seperated by a fence because one lot are protestant and on the other side are catholic, then you know they still have a long way to go.

 

It would be like having a white only school and over the fence, that's the black kids' school, which I wouldn't be shocked to learn actually happens in the USA.

 

 

[SwindonJambo]

2 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

He was and they all became the best of friends.........eventually.

It's better nowadays but when you have primary school children seperated by a fence because one lot are protestant and on the other side are catholic, then you know they still have a long way to go.

 

It would be like having a white only school and over the fence, that's the black kids' school, which I wouldn't be shocked to learn actually happens in the USA.

 

 

In Bishopbriggs, they still do have exactly that between the 2 local primary schools. It takes a very warped planner with I'll intent to come up with that. My mate went to one of them in the 70s and when he returned for a home visit from Boston, MA where he now lives, he noticed they were still the same. 

[JFK-1]

2 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

He was and they all became the best of friends.........eventually.

It's better nowadays but when you have primary school children seperated by a fence because one lot are protestant and on the other side are catholic, then you know they still have a long way to go.

 

It would be like having a white only school and over the fence, that's the black kids' school, which I wouldn't be shocked to learn actually happens in the USA.

 

 

 

The Vatican is driving this. For years the authorities have wanted them all to attend the same schools because this separation thing is extravagantly expensive. In Laighstonehall in Hamilton there are two primary schools right next to each other on either side of a road. Within rock throwing distance. I know this because I grew up attending one of them.

There have been years when the Catholic school had an intake of just one pupil. They're having a primary one class for just one child. The authorities have offered to accommodate them in the same school but with separate entrances and separate classrooms. Not good enough. 

And this separation is where it begins. This them and us mentality. Take those schools away and inside a generation you would see a different society. Scottish tax payers should be declining to continue paying for this apartheid.

Tell the Vatican if they want to pay for it go right ahead. But we are no longer throwing money at it.

[SwindonJambo]

12 minutes ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

The gun laws are understandable, to an extent, given the size of the country. Some people could be hours from their nearest police station, who want protection. There shouldn't be any need for it in Charleston, or somewhere.

 

I still can't believe my first time in Walmart. Was looking through the CDs , got to the end and the gun display started.

 

The gun lobby and national rifle association have a lot of power over there unfortunately.

[SwindonJambo]

1 minute ago, JFK-1 said:

 

The Vatican is driving this. For years the authorities have wanted them all to attend the same schools because this separation thing is extravagantly expensive. In Laighstonehall in Hamilton there are two primary schools right next to each other on either side of a road. Within rock throwing distance. I know this because I grew up attending one of them.

There have been years when the Catholic school had an intake of just one pupil. They're having a primary one class for just one child. The authorities have offered to accommodate them in the same school but with separate entrances and separate classrooms. Not good enough. 

And this separation is where it begins. This them and us mentality. Take those schools away and inside a generation you would see a different society. Scottish tax payers should be declining to continue paying for this apartheid.

Tell the Vatican if they want to pay for it go right ahead. But we are no longer throwing money at it.

Wow - I grew up in the Silvertonhill area of Hamilton and went to Chatelherault Primary then Hamilton Grammar before my family moved us South mid secondary school. I went to Low Waters for a year while Chatelherault was awaiting completion.  I've a feeling Low Waters is no longer there.

 

I don't know the Primary Schools in Laighstonehall but I stay with my cousin just off Wellhall Road whenever I'm up for Hearts games.

 

The situation you describe re said schools is absolutely ridiculous and segregated education should have been binned decades ago. 

[Unknown user]

51 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

He was and they all became the best of friends.........eventually.

It's better nowadays but when you have primary school children seperated by a fence because one lot are protestant and on the other side are catholic, then you know they still have a long way to go.

 

It would be like having a white only school and over the fence, that's the black kids' school, which I wouldn't be shocked to learn actually happens in the USA.

 

 

I thought you were talking about Dalkeith High/St David's for a minute there.

We have a long way to go.

[Justin Z]

To me, this framing of the privilege argument as it relates to not automatically supporting Biden just to get Trump out, is sound. Thoughts?

 

[JFK-1]

2 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

To me, this framing of the privilege argument as it relates to not automatically supporting Biden just to get Trump out, is sound. Thoughts?

 

 

You don't think swapping non stop dysfunction and chaos for a rational functioning administration is worthwhile? Conspiracy nut administration for rational realism isn't a worthwhile outcome?

[JFK-1]

43 minutes ago, SwindonJambo said:

Wow - I grew up in the Silvertonhill area of Hamilton and went to Chatelherault Primary then Hamilton Grammar before my family moved us South mid secondary school. I went to Low Waters for a year while Chatelherault was awaiting completion.  I've a feeling Low Waters is no longer there.

 

I don't know the Primary Schools in Laighstonehall but I stay with my cousin just off Wellhall Road whenever I'm up for Hearts games.

 

The situation you describe re said schools is absolutely ridiculous and segregated education should have been binned decades ago. 

 

This is how close the schools are. Separated by a road. You can see the Catholic school on the left the non denominational on the right.

[Justin Z]

4 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

You don't think swapping non stop dysfunction and chaos for a rational functioning administration is worthwhile? Conspiracy nut administration for rational realism isn't a worthwhile outcome?

 

I've already outlined the fears I have about treating Biden as a panacea to fix all of this, above. There is so much built in to the assumption that it'll all just magically be fine if Biden gets elected, that can't possibly actually happen. And won't.

[JFK-1]

3 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

I've already outlined the fears I have about treating Biden as a panacea to fix all of this, above. There is so much built in to the assumption that it'll all just magically be fine if Biden gets elected, that can't possibly actually happen. And won't.

 

I don't think anbody has said that. All I have said and have seen anyone esle say is that we could expect functional considered realism. And that's not what exists right now.

If you want 4 more years of an administration pushing conspiracy theories while denigrating reputable news agencies reporting factual news as "fake news" you're heading down a very dangerous path indeed.

There is absolutely nothing another 4 years of Trump could benefit in any way and countless things it could seriously impede further.

[AlphonseCapone]

No chance only 1/3 of the UK are atheist. Other way around I'd guess at a conservative estimate. 

[PortyJambo]

1 hour ago, SwindonJambo said:

 

Coatbridge 😳 Rougher than Blantyre, where my tale of woe took place. At least your wife's uncle presumably was finally  allowed into the house. I believe my dad's cousin was permanently banished by her father, who had 10 other children and was seemingly a nasty piece of work. Even in Lanarkshire, where both our stories happened, things are much improved nowadays. Marriages across the supposed divide are commonplace and there's finally a general acceptance that both halves are members of the same species Unfortunately the OF Football bigotry and violence remains as bad as ever.

 

It says a lot that the siblings all attended, demonstrating a shift in attitudes just one generation down, even back then.

 

Not just deepest, darkest Lanarkshire. My mum always tells the story of when she was growing up in Dalry, where whenever she came home with a boyfriend how my grandad would ask what religion he was as soon as soon as they came in the door and he spoke to them (I suppose, in hindsight, that at least he let them in the house!) and my mum would say she would deliberately try and date catholics just to rile him up.

 

And going back to the US, I read up a while ago on atheists and how they were (and still are) treated over there, and read that there are still quite a lot of counties where you can't hold any type of public office if you're an atheist. As a fan of American football, I know quite a few Americans and some have said that as atheists they've suffered persecution in the workplace because of not believing in god. And one of the standard replies to them saying they didn't believe was to say "so you're a follower of Satan"...not quite grasping the meaning of atheism at all.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

55 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

The Vatican is driving this. For years the authorities have wanted them all to attend the same schools because this separation thing is extravagantly expensive. In Laighstonehall in Hamilton there are two primary schools right next to each other on either side of a road. Within rock throwing distance. I know this because I grew up attending one of them.

There have been years when the Catholic school had an intake of just one pupil. They're having a primary one class for just one child. The authorities have offered to accommodate them in the same school but with separate entrances and separate classrooms. Not good enough. 

And this separation is where it begins. This them and us mentality. Take those schools away and inside a generation you would see a different society. Scottish tax payers should be declining to continue paying for this apartheid.

Tell the Vatican if they want to pay for it go right ahead. But we are no longer throwing money at it.

 

The aforementioned Aunt & Uncle of Mrs JJ, lived directly across a lane in Whifflet, Coatbridge from one such school as you discribe, in fact the school was the same building divided down the middle with a fence separating the playing fields, it was amazing for someone like me who was from Edinburgh/Borders who never witnessed such divisions, well not down here in the Borders, at least I've never witnessed.

 

I always remember one of the first things Mrs JJ's father ever asked me when I first started going out with her, was what team I supported, when I said Hearts, he said, that's OK, at the time I never realised what he was meaning, now I do, it was the same with her Grandfather, got on great with that old guy, somehow I think things would have different if I'd supported Celtic or the Vermin, in fact I know things would have been different.

[JFK-1]

9 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said:

No chance only 1/3 of the UK are atheist. Other way around I'd guess at a conservative estimate. 

 

Only 6% of the UK population regularly attend religious services. And a vast number of that are Muslims.

[JFK-1]

11 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said:

No chance only 1/3 of the UK are atheist. Other way around I'd guess at a conservative estimate. 

 

The two schools i'm talking about, It's been decades since I attended the one on the right of that pic but they're still there. What's the rationale in this expensive apartheid?

[Justin Z]

22 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

I don't think anbody has said that. All I have said and have seen anyone esle say is that we could expect functional considered realism. And that's not what exists right now.

If you want 4 more years of an administration pushing conspiracy theories while denigrating reputable news agencies reporting factual news as "fake news" you're heading down a very dangerous path indeed.

There is absolutely nothing another 4 years of Trump could benefit in any way and countless things it could seriously impede further.

 

Then once again, bring it up with this guy, and the millions like him, who imo correctly view it this way.

 

[JackLadd]

2 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

Only 6% of the UK population regularly attend religious services. And a vast number of that are Muslims.

 

37% in the US, which tells some of why Trump has such fertile ground when 100m are evangelicals that believe "The Rapture" is coming. Trump being one agent of that. Denying science is part and parcel of this ideology so refusing to wear a face mask is not much of a stretch either. 

[Norm]

11 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

I've already outlined the fears I have about treating Biden as a panacea to fix all of this, above. There is so much built in to the assumption that it'll all just magically be fine if Biden gets elected, that can't possibly actually happen. And won't.

I get what you're saying. Biden is akin to putting on a crash helmet when your plane's about to smash in to a mountain. Even if by some fluke, by some outside anomaly (because it sure as shit won't be because of the crash helmet), some 1-in-a-1,000,000 chance you somehow make it out alive and crawl out that plane wreckage, you are still going to be ****ed. A vote for Biden is a vote for crash helmets on planes. That's your choice. How the **** you put up with it, I'll never know. 

 

In a way, another 4 years of Trump might be the best thing for you. The USA is shagged. If Trump proper ****s it, you might just get a chance to hit the reset button once the actual blood and carnage is cleared. 

 

Otherwise, it's just going to be the same old shit, gradually getting worse and worse, while Biden lines up the nation, after one last circle, for Mt.McKinley.

[AlphonseCapone]

11 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

The two schools i'm talking about, It's been decades since I attended the one on the right of that pic but they're still there. What's the rationale in this expensive apartheid?

 

I'd scrap state funding to religious schools tomorrow. Unnecessarily divisive. 

[PortyJambo]

26 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said:

No chance only 1/3 of the UK are atheist. Other way around I'd guess at a conservative estimate. 

 

I was sure I'd read that the last UK census was the first one where over 50% of the country stated they held no religion, but from Googling, it doesn't seem that it was the census but was a large British Social Attitudes survey in 2019. With the survey being to adults, and the census being completed on behalf of many by the "head" of the household, I would think the survey is probably closer to the truth than the 25.7% that said no religion in the last (2011) census.

 

Interestingly, Scotland at 36.7% was by far the highest of the countries to respond as "no religion" in the last UK census, with England 24.7%, Wales 32.1% and Northern Ireland 10.1%. I expect many of the people that said they were religious were only answering that way because they were brought up in a certain faith too, rather than actually still believing, due to the ambiguous nature of the question "what is your religion?".

 

Edited - plugged in the wrong 2001 census %'s rather than the 2011 ones.

Edited August 28, 2020 by PortyJambo

[AlphonseCapone]

I don't follow US politics particularly. Is there a short summary someone can provide or a decent article that sets out the issues with Biden? 

[Justin Z]

3 minutes ago, Normthebarman said:

I get what you're saying. Biden is akin to putting on a crash helmet when your plane's about to smash in to a mountain. Even if by some fluke, by some outside anomaly (because it sure as shit won't be because of the crash helmet), some 1-in-a-1,000,000 chance you somehow make it out alive and crawl out that plane wreckage, you are still going to be ****ed. A vote for Biden is a vote for crash helmets on planes. That's your choice. How the **** you put up with it, I'll never know. 

 

In a way, another 4 years of Trump might be the best thing for you. The USA is shagged. If Trump proper ****s it, you might just get a chance to hit the reset button once the actual blood and carnage is cleared. 

 

Otherwise, it's just going to be the same old shit, gradually getting worse and worse, while Biden lines up the nation, after one last circle, for Mt.McKinley.

 

Exactly, thank you. This is what I've been saying all along is my number one concern. This week has just made this fear a hundred times worse, and convinced me the fascists aren't going away, no matter who wins in November. There is no stopping mass violence at this point.

[AlphonseCapone]

2 minutes ago, PortyJambo said:

 

I was sure I'd read that the last UK census was the first one where over 50% of the country stated they held no religion, but from Googling, it doesn't seem that it was the census but was a large British Social Attitudes survey in 2019. With the survey being to adults, and the census being completed on behalf of many by the "head" of the household, I would think the survey is probably closer to the truth than the 23.2% that said no religion in the last (2011) census.

 

Interestingly, Scotland at 27.6% was by far the highest of the countries to respond as "no religion" in the last UK census, with England 14.6%, Wales 18.5% and Northern Ireland 13.9%. I expect many of the people that said they were religious were only answering that way because they were brought up in a certain faith too, rather than actually still believing, due to the ambiguous nature of the question "what is your religion?".

 

That is quite a stark and interesting differences between Scotland and the other UK nations. 

 

I agree, I'd say quite a few will put the religion as whatever they were brought up with. Might be a few of those that still believe in a higher power even if they aren't particularly religious but I'd guess more people don't believe in any gods than do here. 

[Justin Z]

21 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said:

I don't follow US politics particularly. Is there a short summary someone can provide or a decent article that sets out the issues with Biden? 

 

Basically it comes down to a few main points:

 

- Was a primary architect of the crime bill and doubling down on the War on Drugs which created the modern American carceral state and disproportionately imprisoned people from communities of colour

- Doesn't support Medicare for All even in the midst of Covid

- Voted in favour of Iraq War, generally shows warhawkish tendencies

- Has no plans to rein in any of the oppressive agencies or structures he helped create, for the sake of social justice

- Has done nothing to address the issues BLM want politicians to face and reform; just meaningless posturing and performativeness

 

So he's viewed, quite rightly imo, as a strong Republican dressed in Democrats' clothing. That's true of much of the Democratic Party these days, so it's hardly surprising, but it doesn't make it good.

 

Edited August 28, 2020 by Justin Z

[Norm]

4 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Exactly, thank you. This is what I've been saying all along is my number one concern. This week has just made this fear a hundred times worse, and convinced me the fascists aren't going away, no matter who wins in November. There is no stopping mass violence at this point.

It's fine for us to say "Get rid of Trump" because Biden will make for a more reliable US for the rest of us. But we're not American. The rest of the world is basically asking you to take one for the team.

 

"Please just condemn your country to more shitness so we don't have to listen to the orange **** nugget anymore."

 

Essentially, we're asking the US public to sacrifice themselves to the corporations, right wing policies, token gestures to equality, and the billion dollar lobbying industry for eternity.

 

And in return, you'll have a slightly less insane president.

 

For 4 years. Then who knows what **** wit you'll get after that. 

 

What a ****ing choice. 

 

 

 

 

[SwindonJambo]

1 hour ago, JFK-1 said:

 

This is how close the schools are. Separated by a road. You can see the Catholic school on the left the non denominational on the right.

 

That’s outrageous and I was never previously aware of these Schools. And there are several similar examples elsewhere. I must admit, I don’t know that part of town at all. I had no reason ever to visit and I moved away aged 14. I’m up about 3 times a year. Did said Primary school feed into Earnock High rather than Hamilton Grammar?

[JFK-1]

4 minutes ago, SwindonJambo said:

Did said Primary school feed into Earnock High rather than Hamilton Grammar?

 

Yes. The Catholics to John Ogilvie.

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

1 hour ago, Justin Z said:

 

I've already outlined the fears I have about treating Biden as a panacea to fix all of this, above. There is so much built in to the assumption that it'll all just magically be fine if Biden gets elected, that can't possibly actually happen. And won't.

 

"Heads or tails?"

 

"Neither, I want ice cream."

 

 

This is a code Red situation. Just get the ****er out of power. 😄

[SwindonJambo]

13 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

Yes. The Catholics to John Ogilvie.

 

The Catholics in my part of town went to Holy. Cross. From memory John Ogilvie is in Burbank. Good to know there’s another Hamiltonian Jambo in our midst. That picture is unbelievable. I’ll show it to my parents when I see them at the weekend.

 

When I moved South, it was actually refreshing not to have any of that completely preventable and unnecessary shit to deal with. In fact my Geography teacher at the Secondary School I ended up going to here was a Catholic from Motherwell and we got on great. He used to look after me, chasing up all the bullies who picked on me for my Scots accent, which I’ve never lost, nearly 40 years later.

Edited August 28, 2020 by SwindonJambo

[Justin Z]

2 minutes ago, Eldar Hadzimehmedovic said:

 

"Heads or tails?"

 

"Neither, I want ice cream."

 

 

This is a code Red situation. Just get the ****er out of power. 😄

 

Mate, what I'm saying is that it's abundantly clear—and keeps getting clearer by the day—that electing Joe Biden isn't going to solve anything. This analogy doesn't work because both buses go the opposite direction from what the country needs to recover from this.

 

The questions then are, which one goes farther and faster the wrong way? Is it better for all this shit to go down immediately and have Trump as the fall guy to pin it on, possibly putting an end to this destructive movement and putting us on a path to actual recovery? Or shall we wait four or eight years while fascists regroup, having already been the source of mass violence starting this week and continuing through election day, for the next one who's even worse than Trump? Because nothing will change in the meantime.

 

I haven't the foggiest ****ing clue. I can't just sit here and say "oh voting for Joe will get us partway there" because that's just simply not true to my eyes.

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

1 minute ago, Justin Z said:

 

Mate, what I'm saying is that it's abundantly clear—and keeps getting clearer by the day—that electing Joe Biden isn't going to solve anything. This analogy doesn't work because both buses go the opposite direction from what the country needs to recover from this.

 

The questions then are, which one goes farther and faster the wrong way? Is it better for all this shit to go down immediately and have Trump as the fall guy to pin it on, possibly putting an end to this destructive movement and putting us on a path to actual recovery? Or shall we wait four or eight years while fascists regroup, having already been the source of mass violence starting this week and continuing through election day, for the next one who's even worse than Trump? Because nothing will change in the meantime.

 

I haven't the foggiest ****ing clue. I can't just sit here and say "oh voting for Joe will get us partway there" because that's just simply not true to my eyes.

 

Yup, agree on lots here. He's not a great candidate but come on, the Democrats will be a vast improvement. The Sanders crew have obviously agreed to sit tight and just win this one by whatever means. Then they can regroup and in 12 years or so we'll get Cortez as nominee. Then it really will be shits and giggles! 😄

 

The other reason I baulk at such criticism of Biden is that helps feed this "two terrible candidates" nonsense we were subjected to in 2016. Hillary Clinton would have been a better president than Trump a hundred times over. Absolutely no question. 

[Justin Z]

8 minutes ago, Eldar Hadzimehmedovic said:

 

Yup, agree on lots here. He's not a great candidate but come on, the Democrats will be a vast improvement.

 

I couldn't disagree more tbh

 

8 minutes ago, Eldar Hadzimehmedovic said:

The other reason I baulk at such criticism of Biden is that helps feed this "two terrible candidates" nonsense we were subjected to in 2016. Hillary Clinton would have been a better president than Trump a hundred times over. Absolutely no question. 

 

And I barely agree with this. Only as regards international relations and that vague notion of competence. She'd have done much of the same things as Trump, but with a smile. Would people still have had to pay $100,000 to get treated for Covid, would children still be locked in cages on the border (this started under Obama, who built them), would people still be getting evicted en masse, would they still be working for a minimum wage that's not increased since before the Obama presidency, would they still be slaving away, paying $120,000 in interest on student loans over ten years while reducing the original $80,000 balance by $4,000? Would we still be involved in forever wars across the world? Yes.

 

So would she have been a better president in the sense of optics? Sure. Would her presidency have helped the millions of desperate people who need support in this country? Absolutely not.

 

Edit to add: Do millions of desperate people know this, and does their enthusiasm for voting for Biden reflect accordingly? I do think so.

 

Edited August 28, 2020 by Justin Z

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

16 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

I couldn't disagree more tbh

 

 

And I barely agree with this. Only as regards international relations and that vague notion of competence. She'd have done much of the same things as Trump, but with a smile. Would people still have had to pay $100,000 to get treated for Covid, would children still be locked in cages on the border (this started under Obama, who built them), would people still be getting evicted en masse, would they still be working for a minimum wage that's not increased since before the Obama presidency, would they still be slaving away, paying $120,000 in interest on student loans over ten years while reducing the original $80,000 balance by $4,000? Would we still be involved in forever wars across the world? Yes.

 

So would she have been a better president in the sense of optics? Sure. Would her presidency have helped the millions of desperate people who need support in this country? Absolutely not.

 

Edit to add: Do millions of desperate people know this, and does their enthusiasm for voting for Biden reflect accordingly? I do think so.

 

 

Yeah, good post, maybe you're right. You know what it is? My visceral need to witness what Trump looks like defeated is sailing above every other concern. 😄

[Justin Z]

5 minutes ago, Eldar Hadzimehmedovic said:

 

Yeah, good post, maybe you're right. You know what it is? My visceral need to witness what Trump looks like defeated is sailing above every other concern. 😄

 

Haha, cheers. I am 100% onboard with that feeling and I really, really want to give into it. But I just can't. 😅 Much as I loved seeing his mug after that terrible rally, the orange stains all over his shirt, for example.