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Just to remind you all, IF the dems do take both seats and nominal control of all branches of the government, this should not be a result to spark wild celebrations.

It should have been a complete landslide.

The very fact that the dems are staggering over the line is damning indictment of their own policies and a warning that Trumpism struck a chord with many millions of Americans.

The world cannot afford for them to think that it's all over and they can go right back to normal over the next 4 years, or someone even worse than Trump will sweep them aside next time around and then we really will all be in the shit.

 

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Dawnrazor
5 minutes ago, Cade said:

Just to remind you all, IF the dems do take both seats and nominal control of all branches of the government, this should not be a result to spark wild celebrations.

It should have been a complete landslide.

The very fact that the dems are staggering over the line is damning indictment of their own policies and a warning that Trumpism struck a chord with many millions of Americans.

The world cannot afford for them to think that it's all over and they can go right back to normal over the next 4 years, or someone even worse than Trump will sweep them aside next time around and then we really will all be in the shit.

 

Exactly, the Democracies need to look at why Trump was so popular, it's not as some would like to believe that 50% of people in the USA are thick White supremacists, and listen to Trump voters, the moderate one of course.

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23 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

the Democracies need to look at why Trump was so popular, it's not as some would like to believe that 50% of people in the USA are thick White supremacists

 

You may be right. But personally I can't think of anything else that could rationally make a moronic buffoon who can barely read or write, struggles to form a coherent sentence, demonstrably lies in every other incoherent sentence, stumbles from one incompetent disaster to another, popular. 

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Justin Z
19 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

Exactly, the Democracies need to look at why Trump was so popular, it's not as some would like to believe that 50% of people in the USA are thick White supremacists, and listen to Trump voters, the moderate one of course.

 

50% thick white supremacists, no. Way too many entirely okay with blatant white supremacy if they think they'll pay lower taxes? "Diet" white supremacists who crow on about "political correctness" and "cancel culture" when what they mean is they want to be able to say the N word without consequences? Absolutely. Frankly, there is no such thing as a moderate Trump voter because they've sold their soul to exactly what they knew they were getting. They are shit and they deserve scorn.

 

The oft-forgotten and most important group are disaffected voters who don't even go out and cast a ballot because the Dems haven't done shit for them in 40+ years. Many of them will have once voted Democratic, too. The Dems have pandered and virtue signalled their way into, as Cade said, what should have been a complete landslide, instead of fighting for real policies that benefit regular folk. Obama was a fraud, and Biden may have done more than any other active politician to negatively impact minority communities. A reckoning is at hand either way, and I hope that reckoning is a massive 180 from where they've been, or it will be a red bloodbath in 2022.

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Dawnrazor
Just now, JFK-1 said:

 

You may be right. But personally I can't think of anything else that could rationally make a moronic buffoon who can barely read or write, struggles to form a coherent sentence, demonstrably lies in every other incoherent sentence, stumbles from one incompetent disaster to another, popular. 

That's the problem! Ask a few and find out, the Dem's, like labour in the UK, will have ask themselves some hard questions, if they don't they'll loose the next election. 

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Dawnrazor
2 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

50% thick white supremacists, no. Way too many entirely okay with blatant white supremacy if they think they'll pay lower taxes? "Diet" white supremacists who crow on about "political correctness" and "cancel culture" when what they mean is they want to be able to say the N word without consequences? Absolutely. Frankly, there is no such thing as a moderate Trump voter because they've sold their soul to exactly what they knew they were getting. They are shit and they deserve scorn.

 

The oft-forgotten and most important group are disaffected voters who don't even go out and cast a ballot because the Dems haven't done shit for them in 40+ years. Many of them will have once voted Democratic, too. The Dems have pandered and virtue signalled their way into, as Cade said, what should have been a complete landslide, instead of fighting for real policies that benefit regular folk. Obama was a fraud, and Biden may have done more than any other active politician to negatively impact minority communities. A reckoning is at hand either way, and I hope that reckoning is a massive 180 from where they've been, or it will be a red bloodbath in 2022.

Again Justin, your first paragraph sums uo the problem, a blame game of he said she said, question if why the Dems scraped past Trump need to  be asked, seriously asked and the answers listend to, cancel culture in collages in particular seems to be a problem for some, I don't think ots because most people of the centre/centre right want t use the N word, maybe I pick you up wrong but sweeping statements and pigeonholeng people like that is part of the problem, imo.

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11 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

That's the problem! Ask a few and find out, the Dem's, like labour in the UK, will have ask themselves some hard questions, if they don't they'll loose the next election. 

 

Well I think they're the problem not I nor the Democrats as such. And asking them wont change anything. I have asked some and the vast majority I have asked are religious nuts, gun nuts, or both. And gave me a sense of covert racism and deceitfulness. I'm very good at reading people.

Speaking of just one of those traits, Is being a gun nut a valid excuse to elect an obvious moronic, racist, incompetent, sociopathic narcissist?

What actual difference to their everyday lives would electing a competent rational Democrat be? Probably nothing at all that would be detrimental to them. Nothing that would affect what they claim their reasons for voting against the Democrats are.

While on the other hand electing Trump has been a dystopian chaotic nightmare from day one to the present moment and we're still not out of the nightmare. Two weeks is a long time in the insane pantomime of Trumps America.

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Dawnrazor
2 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

Well I think they're the problem not I nor the Democrats as such. And asking them wont change anything. I have asked some and the vast majority I have asked are religious nuts, gun nuts, or both. And gave me a sense of covert racism and deceitfulness. I'm very good at reading people.

Speaking of just one of those traits, Is being a gun nut a valid excuse to elect an obvious moronic, racist, incompetent, sociopathic narcissist?

What actual difference to their everyday lives would electing a competent rational Democrat be? Probably nothing at all that would be detrimental to them. Nothing that would affect what they claim their reasons for voting against the Democrats are.

While on the other hand electing Trump has been a dystopian chaotic nightmare from day one to the present moment and we're still not out of the nightmare. Two weeks is a long time in the insane pantomime of Trumps America.

Sums up the dismissive attitude that some swing voters feel I suspect, I'm not looking for an argument but with that attitude how is anyone going to have thier minds changed?

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18 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

Sums up the dismissive attitude that some swing voters feel I suspect, I'm not looking for an argument but with that attitude how is anyone going to have thier minds changed?

 

I'm not looking for an argument either nor did I suspect you were. Maybe you have better ideas than I do for changing religious gun nuts. You're being naive if you think the mentality of this breed can be changed by rational conversation.

Take a look around. This past year alone we have seen the worlds most esteemed infectious disease experts telling people that there's a  new virus out there that can kill you.

How did the Trumpets respond? Fake news they said and that's after hearing from world renowned experts in the field.

And you think I could be out there saying that the nuts they're listening to on Facebook are nuts they shouldn't be listening to? And they will take that on board?

These wackos are what they are and there is nothing I or you for that matter could do to change them.  Darwin has been unable to change the religious nuts in over 150 years.

A murder rate the off the charts in comparison to any other high income Western nation hasn't change the gun nuts. What chance do I have.

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Dawnrazor
Just now, JFK-1 said:

 

I'm not looking for an argument either nor did I suspect you were. Maybe you have better ideas than I do for changing religious gun nuts. You're being naive if you think the mentality of this breed can be changed by rational conversation.

Take a look around. This past year alone we have seen the worlds most esteemed infectious disease experts telling people that there's a  new virus out there that can kill you.

How did the Trumpets respond? Fake news they said and that's after hearing from world renowned experts in the field.

And you think I could be out there saying that the nuts they're listening to on Facebook are nuts they shouldn't be listening to? And they will take that on board?

These wackos are what they are and there is nothing I or you for that matter could do to change them.  Darwin has been unable to change the religious nuts in over 150 years.

A murder rate the off the charts in comparison to any other high income Western nation hasn't change the gun nuts. What chance do I have.

You seem to be saying that everyone who votes Republican is a far right bible bashing gun toting KKK wizard, I'm pretty sure they're not. There are obviously extremes on both the right and the left who's minds will never be changed, but is that any reason not to find out why the ordinary working folk who voted Republican did? If they are constantly lumped in the hiedcases as you have have done, where is the dialogue for them to air thier views and have thier minds changed? Why even bother with elections?

It's like the Labour voters in the North Eadt and West of England, did they suddenly turn into extreame right wing BNP supporting racists overnight because they voted conservative at the last election?

Of course they didn't.

There will be millions, maybe tens of millions of good American people whi have voted Dem in the past but voted Republican last time, why is this? Calling them racist gun nuts will not likley make them feel like returning to the Dems.

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1 minute ago, Dawnrazor said:

is that any reason not to find out why the ordinary working folk who voted Republican did?

 

I think I already mentioned I have asked many who demonstrated a support for Trump and they were all the same. Working people. Some of them people I worked alongside. They were all exactly as I described. To a man/woman. Predominately men.

How many have you asked? What's your experience in comparison to mine after having lived here in the Trump stronghold of Oklahoma for 9 years?

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15 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

You seem to be saying that everyone who votes Republican is a far right bible bashing gun toting KKK wizard, I'm pretty sure they're not. There are obviously extremes on both the right and the left who's minds will never be changed, but is that any reason not to find out why the ordinary working folk who voted Republican did? If they are constantly lumped in the hiedcases as you have have done, where is the dialogue for them to air thier views and have thier minds changed? Why even bother with elections?

It's like the Labour voters in the North Eadt and West of England, did they suddenly turn into extreame right wing BNP supporting racists overnight because they voted conservative at the last election?

Of course they didn't.

There will be millions, maybe tens of millions of good American people whi have voted Dem in the past but voted Republican last time, why is this? Calling them racist gun nuts will not likley make them feel like returning to the Dems.

I think that after the 2016 election your points would have been valid. I was shocked to see Trump elected but there was at least some explanation of sticking it to the system, anti-Hillary whether for being a woman or being a career politician, anti Washingon, Trump as outisder, Trump as a new broom to sweep out the corrupt and lying politicians. All these together make some kind of sense.
4 years on. Trump has a pitiful record in office. Has introduced huge tax cuts for billionaire buddies, has trashed USA international standing, has demonstrably and habitually lied thousands upon thousands of times, has encouraged right wing extremism, has promoted Fake News and conspiracy as a matter of policy, and has looked only ever to look after Trump's interests 1st, his base's interests 2nd, Republican interests 3rd and American interests 4th.
At the end of all that it seems to me that support for Trump smacks of a cult rather than politics. How do you detoxify that?

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5 minutes ago, RobboM said:

I think that after the 2016 election your points would have been valid. I was shocked to see Trump elected but there was at least some explanation of sticking it to the system, anti-Hillary whether for being a woman or being a career politician, anti Washingon, Trump as outisder, Trump as a new broom to sweep out the corrupt and lying politicians. All these together make some kind of sense.
4 years on. Trump has a pitiful record in office. Has introduced huge tax cuts for billionaire buddies, has trashed USA international standing, has demonstrably and habitually lied thousands upon thousands of times, has encouraged right wing extremism, has promoted Fake News and conspiracy as a matter of policy, and has looked only ever to look after Trump's interests 1st, his base's interests 2nd, Republican interests 3rd and American interests 4th.
At the end of all that it seems to me that support for Trump smacks of a cult rather than politics. How do you detoxify that?

 

 

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Dawnrazor
13 minutes ago, RobboM said:

How do you detoxify that?

 By talking to people, finding out why they voted, or didn't, asking them then acting, as much as possible.

I absolutely agree with your critique of Trump and also agree that the problems in the USA, and I can only comment on what I see on various mediea, are deep and wide, but slagging people off who didn't vote how you (not you personally) wanted them to and calling them racist gun toting nut cases and saying some only want to stop the cancel culture so they can call people the N word seems a long long way from starting to sort out problems and engage people.

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13 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

 

Thanks for that JFK (I think! 🙂 ) , at the end of that though how on earth do we find a way out?

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Lovecraft

What GMT is the congress meeting today?

 

I wanna watch all the soap opera drama.

 

 

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Dawnrazor
29 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

I think I already mentioned I have asked many who demonstrated a support for Trump and they were all the same. Working people. Some of them people I worked alongside. They were all exactly as I described. To a man/woman. Predominately men.

How many have you asked? What's your experience in comparison to mine after having lived here in the Trump stronghold of Oklahoma for 9 years?

Obviously you have infinitely more experience than I, I wouldn't suggest otherwise, but I stand by my premise the engaging people is the way forward wnd further alienating them.

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2 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

 By talking to people, finding out why they voted, or didn't, asking them then acting, as much as possible.

I absolutely agree with your critique of Trump and also agree that the problems in the USA, and I can only comment on what I see on various mediea, are deep and wide, but slagging people off who didn't vote how you (not you personally) wanted them to and calling them racist gun toting nut cases and saying some only want to stop the cancel culture so they can call people the N word seems a long long way from starting to sort out problems and engage people.

Thanks Dawnrazor. I'm just off the back of watching JFK's link to a piece which suggests a division based on judgmentalism. But is there a more judgemental sector of (American) society than the religious right? How many of those judgemental characteristics assigned to the left in that podcast piece are also true of the Bible belt republicans? I'm honestly left deeply perplexed by the scale of Trump's appeal. I fear your approach ends up failing like a game of whack-a-mole similar to the current conspiracy theories about the Georgia election. To back up the idea that Trump lost in Georgia then the current Senate vote either elects Republicans and proves that he was right that the Presidential vote was rigged, or elects Democrats which proves that the Presidential vote was rigged. In that world I'm honestly not sure progress on the basis of reasoned argument is likely.

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17 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

Obviously you have infinitely more experience than I, I wouldn't suggest otherwise, but I stand by my premise the engaging people is the way forward wnd further alienating them.

 

I wish you were right but I don't believe you are. You have to grasp that Americans are not like British people. They're infinitely less amenable to rationality. I already gave some examples of that.

Darwin published origin of species 160 years ago and in doing so answering a question humans had likely debated around camp fires since they first developed language. Where do we come from?

Within a decade and in Darwin's lifetime the theory had been accepted as indisputably true. Yet to this day despite the theory having been proven beyond any doubt using scientific techniques Darwin himself would have been astounded by around half the population of this country still don't accept it.

And that's by chance the the same proportion of the population thought to support Trump. These people wont accept absolutely indisputable repeatedly proven scientific fact after over a century and a half but you think it's reasonable to change the same proportion of Trump cultists with a little engagement?

Would it take 160 years? I don't have that much time to spare.

Edited by JFK-1
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Dawnrazor
2 minutes ago, RobboM said:

Thanks Dawnrazor. I'm just off the back of watching JFK's link to a piece which suggests a division based on judgmentalism. But is there a more judgemental sector of (American) society than the religious right? How many of those judgemental characteristics assigned to the left in that podcast piece are also true of the Bible belt republicans? I'm honestly left deeply perplexed by the scale of Trump's appeal. I fear your approach ends up failing like a game of whack-a-mole similar to the current conspiracy theories about the Georgia election. To back up the idea that Trump lost in Georgia then the current Senate vote either elects Republicans and proves that he was right that the Presidential vote was rigged, or elects Democrats which proves that the Presidential vote was rigged. In that world I'm honestly not sure progress on the basis of reasoned argument is likely.

I've no answers Robbo, I've never been to the USA and can only comment on what I see in the media, like many others.

Is there a more judgemental sector than the religious right? I honestly don't know mate, I can only presume that there's as much on the left, maybe not in the rust belt but in more metropolitan ares, complete supposition on my part granted but human nature is human nature wheather on the right or left. 

Being perplexed by Trump's appeal seems widespread, I don't know how you voted, by the people who didn't vote for him, but my only real point on this subject, is that lumping every Trump/Republican voter with the extreme right is not how to engage and find out what the attraction of Trumpism is. I'm sure there will be middle of the road Republican voters who are angry and embarrassed by Trump who are not extreame in any way, just as there has to be Democratic voters who are not of the far left who would rather Biden wasn't at the head of thier party.

I can only hope you last sentence is wrong, I really do.

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Dawnrazor
5 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

I wish you were right but I don't believe you are. You have to grasp that Americans are not like British people. They're infinitely less amenable to rationality. I already gave some examples of that.

Darwin published origin of species 160 years ago and in doing so answering a question humans had likely debated around camp fires since they first developed language. Where do we come from?

Within a decade and in Darwin's lifetime the theory had been accepted as indisputably true. Yet to this day despite the theory having been proven beyond any doubt using scientific techniques Darwin himself would have been astounded by around half the population of this country still don't accept it.

And that's by chance the the same proportion of the population thought to support Trump. These people wont accept absolutely indisputable repeatedly proven scientific fact after over a century and a half but you think it's reasonable to change the same proportion of Trump cultists with a little engagement?

Would it take 160 years? I don't have that much time to spare.

👍 I take on all your points, here's hoping a dialogue can take place, questions asked and answers found, all the best.

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12 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

Being perplexed by Trump's appeal seems widespread, I don't know how you voted, by the people who didn't vote for him, but my only real point on this subject, is that lumping every Trump/Republican voter with the extreme right is not how to engage and find out what the attraction of Trumpism is. I'm sure there will be middle of the road Republican voters who are angry and embarrassed by Trump who are not extreame in any way, just as there has to be Democratic voters who are not of the far left who would rather Biden wasn't at the head of thier party.

I can only hope you last sentence is wrong, I really do.

I'm Cornish/Irish living in deepest West Lothian (no wonder I'm perplexed! 😉 and don't get a vote. Just always had an interest in politics and just drawn to the car crash of US politics these past years.

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Trump will face blame if Republicans lose

Analysis by Anthony Zurcher North America reporter.

Although the results are not final, it appears Republican worries about the two run-off elections in Georgia were well-founded.

Their voters did not show up at the polls in the kinds of numbers they were hoping. Meanwhile, Democrats turned out at higher levels. In county after county, both Jon Ossoff and Raphael Warnock outperformed their general election numbers.

The two Democrats, at times running as a team, appeared to complement each other's electoral coalitions. Mr Warnock energised black voters across the state.

Mr Ossoff, although he slightly underperformed his Democratic counterpart, still attracted suburban and educated voters around Atlanta.

If it turns out both Mr Ossoff and Mr Warnock prevail, Donald Trump will receive considerable blame for the Republican defeats.

The party that loses the White House usually does better in subsequent congressional elections, not worse. And Georgia, despite Joe Biden's victory there, is still a traditionally conservative state.

Instead, the two races were a dead heat coming down the stretch, as Mr Trump spent most of his time and energy disputing his electoral defeat and lobbing attacks at Republican leaders in the state.

It turns out that may not have been a wise electoral strategy - and it could cost Republicans control of the Senate.

Georgia election: Democrats on course for Senate control
 

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Jambo-Jimbo

Good luck trying to engage the following Trump supporting groups in dialog, just remember you'd be dealing with the likes of.

Far-right Neo-Nazis.

Fully paid up members of 'the clan'.

Flat Earthers, anti-Vaxxers & all the other tin-foil hat wearers.

Anti-establishment, anti-government revolutionaries.

Gun loving pretend G.I. Joe's.

Bible bashing, anti-gay, anti-lesbian, anti everything that's not in the bible religious nutjobs.

And goodness knows how many other groups.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Had a good sleep so got up real early as a result watched the news that when I went to bed last night the Georgia elections were still close.  On reengaging with the current happenings it seems that the Democrats have won both seats.  Why?, my simple answer is that clear thinking citizens of the State were thinking of the possible ramifications of a Republican victory. If they gave full power again to the Senate the fear would be that although Democrats would be the governing party with Biden as President, Trump would still be as he is doing now pulling the strings. The sad thing is there is no ideal party of leadership in the United States at the moment. My humble opinion although not worth anything because of my non eligibility to vote is that neither party available has the true quality of leadership available to take responsibility for the national and international responsibilities for which they will be asked to administer.   

The Democrats are led by a really nice elderly man whom I see as a reliable reasonably safe holder of the position for four years until a younger brighter prospect is identified. I again personally do not see them as the choice for the United States, I see them in power when some strong Republican voters, the normal man and woman of the United States are taking what they see as the safe route, as opposed to the one offered by a meglomaniacal, liar, obviously suffering from mental disorders, and who has no loyalty to anyone other than himself, watch when Pence as Chairman accepts the review of the election results and accepts the Electoral College decisions. Trump will go ballistic.

 

Watch the result of Trumps ire passed to his  similarly challenged radical supporters when they hear his reaction including a condemnation of his Vice President. There is anticipated to be demonstrations that could become violent, the Mayor has asked for the assistance of the National Guard so that the police can be freed from crowd control to make arrests or what action is necessary.    Is there anything good coming out of this whole sad saga of Trumpism, I would suggest that Georgia has shown that all Americans are not racist, bigoted violent nuts, but ordinary thinking people who have been prepared to vote according to need not party.

 

 

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Jambo-Jimbo
4 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

Trump will face blame if Republicans lose

Analysis by Anthony Zurcher North America reporter.

Although the results are not final, it appears Republican worries about the two run-off elections in Georgia were well-founded.

Their voters did not show up at the polls in the kinds of numbers they were hoping. Meanwhile, Democrats turned out at higher levels. In county after county, both Jon Ossoff and Raphael Warnock outperformed their general election numbers.

The two Democrats, at times running as a team, appeared to complement each other's electoral coalitions. Mr Warnock energised black voters across the state.

Mr Ossoff, although he slightly underperformed his Democratic counterpart, still attracted suburban and educated voters around Atlanta.

If it turns out both Mr Ossoff and Mr Warnock prevail, Donald Trump will receive considerable blame for the Republican defeats.

The party that loses the White House usually does better in subsequent congressional elections, not worse. And Georgia, despite Joe Biden's victory there, is still a traditionally conservative state.

Instead, the two races were a dead heat coming down the stretch, as Mr Trump spent most of his time and energy disputing his electoral defeat and lobbing attacks at Republican leaders in the state.

It turns out that may not have been a wise electoral strategy - and it could cost Republicans control of the Senate.

Georgia election: Democrats on course for Senate control
 

 

You know I'm starting to like Trump's 'gonna get tired of winning' statement.  😂

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Justin Z
1 hour ago, Dawnrazor said:

You seem to be saying that everyone who votes Republican is a far right bible bashing gun toting KKK wizard, I'm pretty sure they're not.

 

You're right—they're not. Yet you also took issue with my statement that literally any Trump voter was okay with chaining themselves to the in-your-face KKK wizardry that is part and parcel of the entire Trump movement. They weren't bothered enough by it to not vote for him.


That's not pigeonholing. It is inexcusable.

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9 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

You know I'm starting to like Trump's 'gonna get tired of winning' statement.  😂

 

I'm starting to like this.
 

 

Turns out she was right, the best is now starting to come and it's still going to get better following noon on January 20th when private citizen Trump begins to face the blizzard of indictments coming his way.

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I P Knightley
4 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

 

I have no 'tribe' to fall into line with when it comes to American politics. I payed it little to no attention at all prior to Trump. It always struck me as frankly infantile. But Trump took the infantile insanity to such levels I had to take an interest. 

Prior to that I had witnessed US politicians pretending the world is brand new to humour religious nutcases. While here in Oklahoma we had the sight of a politician walking into the state capitol building during Winter holding a snowball and saying effectively so much for your fake global warming.

I have a snowball in Winter. There goes your climate science. How could I ever take such a pantomime environment seriously?

All i'm saying is that this Harris thing and an MLK anecdote is so trivial as to be not even register. So trivial even the right will quickly become bored with it.

One thing you can say in Trump's favour is that he's never been accused of plagiarising anyone coherent for his presidential speeches.

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Dawnrazor
34 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

You're right—they're not. Yet you also took issue with my statement that literally any Trump voter was okay with chaining themselves to the in-your-face KKK wizardry that is part and parcel of the entire Trump movement. They weren't bothered enough by it to not vote for him.


That's not pigeonholing. It is inexcusable.

If they wanted to vote Republican who else would they vote for? 

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13 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

If they wanted to vote Republican who else would they vote for? 

If they can look at blatant white supremacy, misogyny, forced sterilization, and literal concentration camps and still whine "but I wanna vote Republican because I always do!" Then I'm going to continue to lump them in as part of those movements. Whether they think they're a part of them are not, they are being the mechanism through which those leaders and supporters are in power. 

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CavySlaveJambo
1 hour ago, Lovecraft said:

What GMT is the congress meeting today?

 

I wanna watch all the soap opera drama.

 

 

6pm 

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Maple Leaf
2 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

 

 

 

Brilliant, as always, from Sam Harris.

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Maple Leaf
1 hour ago, I P Knightley said:

One thing you can say in Trump's favour is that he's never been accused of plagiarising anyone coherent for his presidential speeches.

 

:rofl:

 

Very droll!

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Dawnrazor
59 minutes ago, Dorothy said:

If they can look at blatant white supremacy, misogyny, forced sterilization, and literal concentration camps and still whine "but I wanna vote Republican because I always do!" Then I'm going to continue to lump them in as part of those movements. Whether they think they're a part of them are not, they are being the mechanism through which those leaders and supporters are in power. 

He increased his vote of the Black and Hispanic vote, were they also looking at the white supremacy?

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33 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

He increased his vote of the Black and Hispanic vote, were they also looking at the white supremacy?

I feel this is the equivalent to when white power groups have bi-racial members for image purposes. When a group of angry people is bigger than you, perhaps it's in the issue of self-preservation to follow along and keep your head down.

 

Also, it's not just the white supremacy at play, there's also anti-semitism and other prejudices. White people are not the only racists in the world. Racism comes in all colours across the spectrum. Black versus hispanic vs asian, etc. While they might not be classical white supremacists, they might still agree with the rhetoric on some level.

Edited by Dorothy
Clarity
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Mikey1874

The key thing about Trump is probably Republican voters put off voting because they now don't trust elections. 

 

Turnout will tell us that. 

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CavySlaveJambo
18 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

The key thing about Trump is probably Republican voters put off voting because they now don't trust elections. 

 

Turnout will tell us that. 

4.5 million in Georgia yesterday.  
 

I like the GA elections system manager.  He talks sense. 

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Dawnrazor
50 minutes ago, Dorothy said:

I feel this is the equivalent to when white power groups have bi-racial members for image purposes. When a group of angry people is bigger than you, perhaps it's in the issue of self-preservation to follow along and keep your head down.

 

Also, it's not just the white supremacy at play, there's also anti-semitism and other prejudices. White people are not the only racists in the world. Racism comes in all colours across the spectrum. Black versus hispanic vs asian, etc. While they might not be classical white supremacists, they might still agree with the rhetoric on some level.

Or they be fed up of being let down by the party they've voted for before?

The thought of Blacks and Hispanics and Jews and Muslims voting for a white supremacist supporting President because some don't like each other isn't something I'm buying, sorrry, I'm well aware of racism amongst other than white people but I'd say you've streached that one a wee bit.

My point in all this is that people vote for different parties for different reasons, obviously, not everyone knows every policy or every pledge in a manifesto, people will vote Republican because they traditionally always have, as people will vote Democrat because they always have. I think Justin Z (I'm pretty sure it was him) was asked how he was going to vote, and if I remember correctly, he said he was going to hold his nose and vote Democrat despite his misgivings, perfectly fair enough. Is it not possible that many Republicans held thier noses and voted Trump with tbe same thought process? Are they all gun toting KKK menbers? 

If they felt they'd rather hold thier noses and vote Trump rather then Biden that's a problem for the Democrats in future Id have thought. 

 

 

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Whilst giving a speech to the "stop the steal" rally in Washington DC a few minutes ago, Rudy Giuliani calls for a "trial by combat"

 

Arrest the daft auld bassa for inciting terrorism, sedition, rebellion and treason and chuck him in a deep, dark hole.

 

 

Edited by Cade
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Kalamazoo Jambo

Merrick Garland nominated for Attorney General! Biden was clearly seeing if Democrats would have control of the Senate before nominating him as that will be a key judicial vacancy that needs filled.

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ri Alban

Have they won both. 

 

Looks like there's few thousand lunatics at the Trump rally. And everyone of them is a white supremacy terrorist and should be baton charged, but unfortunately the police will in their team. 

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16 minutes ago, Kalamazoo Jambo said:

Merrick Garland nominated for Attorney General! Biden was clearly seeing if Democrats would have control of the Senate before nominating him as that will be a key judicial vacancy that needs filled.

Mitch McConnell famously said: "Elections have consequences."

 

How right he's been proven.

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45 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

Or they be fed up of being let down by the party they've voted for before?

The thought of Blacks and Hispanics and Jews and Muslims voting for a white supremacist supporting President because some don't like each other isn't something I'm buying, sorrry, I'm well aware of racism amongst other than white people but I'd say you've streached that one a wee bit.

My point in all this is that people vote for different parties for different reasons, obviously, not everyone knows every policy or every pledge in a manifesto, people will vote Republican because they traditionally always have, as people will vote Democrat because they always have. I think Justin Z (I'm pretty sure it was him) was asked how he was going to vote, and if I remember correctly, he said he was going to hold his nose and vote Democrat despite his misgivings, perfectly fair enough. Is it not possible that many Republicans held thier noses and voted Trump with tbe same thought process? Are they all gun toting KKK menbers? 

If they felt they'd rather hold thier noses and vote Trump rather then Biden that's a problem for the Democrats in future Id have thought. 

 

 

If you vote for someone advocating for the things Trump has done or said, you are giving those things your approval. Regardless of how you want to justify it, you are saying it is a-okay to have the power. Democrats let you down? Okay, but that doesn't mean you should feel inclined to jump over and vote for a white supremacist because they're in the opposite party.

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Dawnrazor
1 minute ago, Dorothy said:

If you vote for someone advocating for the things Trump has done or said, you are giving those things your approval. Regardless of how you want to justify it, you are saying it is a-okay to have the power. Democrats let you down? Okay, but that doesn't mean you should feel inclined to jump over and vote for a white supremacist because they're in the opposite party.

I'm not trying to justify anyone's vete just pointing out the nuances of voting.

Like I've said before, I don't think tens of millions of people voted for Trump because he's a white supremacist, that's my point. 

 

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17 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Have they won both. 

 

Looks like there's few thousand lunatics at the Trump rally. And everyone of them is a white supremacy terrorist and should be baton charged, but unfortunately the police will in their team. 

Might be easy to baton charge them this time. They're standing there in zero degrees weather(probably minus with wind chill) and he's got another hour or something's worth of grievances still to air.

 

Artist's impression of the scene right now:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Screenshot_20210106-174501_Google.jpg

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Jambo-Jimbo

Not the first time I've heard someone say that they are going to form a third party because the Republicans don't represent them anymore.

If that became a coordinated move by Trump supporters, I suppose they could form a Trump party.

 

This would hit the Republicans by taking support away from them to Trump, the Dems I'd suppose would welcome a potential split of the GOP.

 

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Dawnrazor
Just now, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

 

This would hit the Republicans by taking support away from them to Trump, the Dems I'd suppose would welcome a potential split of the GOP.

 

I saw a few tv reports saying that's why he was reluctantly allowed (not sure if that describes it best) to lead the party, I think he threatened to run as an independent and that would've lead to a Republican loss, I bet they wish they had another four years in opposition now😅

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  • Kalamazoo Jambo changed the title to Biden is President; Trump acquitted
  • Maple Leaf changed the title to Donald Trump and Joe Biden (title changed)

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