Champions League 2018/19

[hmfc_liam06]

6 minutes ago, c9crew said:

Still champions of Europe and no amount of debate, tears and put downs will change that. ?

 

 

And I really couldn't care less about folk revelling in a football team folk have only ever seen on the tele.

 

[grumpyespana]

Was at the Cartagena v Real Madrid B second leg play off match last night with the home team winning 2 nil and progressing to the semi finals. Comparing it to the Champions league final it was miles better with a crowd of 14.000 baying Cartagena supporters lol.

[Debut 4]

3 hours ago, The Old Tolbooth said:

 

Pretty much what we done to Celtic in the Scottish Cup final, we knew we were the inferior side, so we played a way to level it up a bit, and it nearly worked. 

 

There's a few reasons why I think it was a non event as a game really, almost a month between the end of the season and the final is never a good thing, teams go rusty and cold, Liverpool getting the early penalty (stonewaller for me, what was his hand doing up there in the first place?) killed it a bit because Spurs had to watch what they were doing and couldn't afford to go 2 down, and Liverpool then didn't have to go on the hunt as they already had the lead, Liverpool had a lot more gears to go through if they needed them, but Spurs were so bad that they didn't need to use them, the defence and keeper were superb, and I genuinely can't think of one moment during the game where I was worried with one of the Spurs chances. They needed a goal and brought on Dier, it was at that point I knew it was won. 

Can nit pick all day with any game of football but in short not enough of Spurs key players turned up to make it more of a contest imo.

 

Like you say, cageyness set in very early. Spurs tried to draw Liverpool right out almost into their own box but they weren’t good enough to capitalise or Liverpool weren’t stupid enough to play into their hands.  

 

 

 

 

[c9crew]

2 hours ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

 

And I really couldn't care less about folk revelling in a football team folk have only ever seen on the tele.

 

Caring enough to keep posting though ??

[Nookie Bear]

Hearts to win cup or Liverpool to win Champions League. 

 

What would you prefer?

[Retrojambo]

3 hours ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

 

It's generally easier to win cups, even the European Cup, than it is to win the league. Freak results, easy draws etc can see you in the final and even win it.

 

A true barometer is winning the league, as you say, Liverpool haven't done so in nearly 30 years.

What a pathetic post.

Hearts had ‘easy draws’ to the Scottish Cup final, would you have complained if they had won it even though the league hasn’t been won in 60 years. 

Celtic have domanated the Scottish league for years now, they are crap in Europe

[hmfc_liam06]

5 minutes ago, Retrojambo said:

What a pathetic post.

Hearts had ‘easy draws’ to the Scottish Cup final, would you have complained if they had won it even though the league hasn’t been won in 60 years. 

Celtic have domanated the Scottish league for years now, they are crap in Europe

 

Why is it pathetic? It's a perfectly valid point - a league win is harder than a cup win.

 

You've completely missed my point in all your plastic rage.

Edited June 3, 2019 by hmfc_liam06

[SpruceBringsteen]

13 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

Hearts to win cup or Liverpool to win Champions League. 

 

What would you prefer?

 

Half the TV team lads would rather a Liverpool youth player won £1 on a scratch card than Hearts won the World Club Cup. Absolute oddballs.

[c9crew]

11 minutes ago, SpruceBringsteen said:

 

Half the TV team lads would rather a Liverpool youth player won £1 on a scratch card than Hearts won the World Club Cup. Absolute oddballs.

The seethe has become a thing of beauty on this thread. 

 

[Retrojambo]

17 minutes ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

 

Why is it pathetic? It's a perfectly valid point - a league win is harder than a cup win.

 

You've completely missed my point in all your plastic rage.

Plastic rage?

Your telling me beating the champions of Germany, Portugal, Germany, France in a European Champions League is not hard. 

Would Celtic winning the Champions League be harder than winning the Scottish Premiership????

Edited June 3, 2019 by Retrojambo

[hmfc_liam06]

Just now, Retrojambo said:

Plastic rage?

Your telling me beating the champions of Germany, Portugal, Germany, France in a league in a European Champions League is not hard. 

Would Celtic winning the Champions League be harder than winning the Scottish Premiership????

 

Again, missing the point. It's Liverpool we're talking about not Celtic. Liverpool are a club who should be competing regularly in the Champions League. How many times have they won it since they last won the league? 2? 3? My point proven right there. 

 

Trying to use Celtic to prove some point of your own  if you're using Scottish clubs as an example, how many Scottish Cups have we (that's Hearts by the way) won in recent years v league titles? See, I'm giving realistic examples, not some nonsense like you. How many different clubs have won either cup over the last 20 years, compare that to how many different clubs have won the league.

 

Anyway, hope you enjoyed 'your' sides Champions League win.

[Nookie Bear]

Mods, LTSC. 

[Retrojambo]

21 minutes ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

 

Again, missing the point. It's Liverpool we're talking about not Celtic. Liverpool are a club who should be competing regularly in the Champions League. How many times have they won it since they last won the league? 2? 3? My point proven right there. 

 

Trying to use Celtic to prove some point of your own  if you're using Scottish clubs as an example, how many Scottish Cups have we (that's Hearts by the way) won in recent years v league titles? See, I'm giving realistic examples, not some nonsense like you. How many different clubs have won either cup over the last 20 years, compare that to how many different clubs have won the league.

 

Anyway, hope you enjoyed 'your' sides Champions League win.

I’m not missing any point.

Your replying to a post about how they can claim to be the best in Europe if they can’t win the league. They’ve won the Champions league because of the way it’s set up and they qualified, like most other teams from major countries who finish in the top 2nd 3 or 4. I’ll point out they have won 4 European cups having won the league.

Hearts finished 2nd in in 2006 and if your old enough you’ll remember the celebrations when they qualified. If Hearts had managed to get in the group stage and incredibly go on and win it, you’re telling me you wouldn’t call Hearts The Champions of Europe ??,

and yes I’m a Liverpool season ticket holder, from Liverpool now living in Edinburgh since 1982, who has a Hearts daft son and Introduced to Hearts in the early 90’s.

So yes I have been to watch both teams many many times over the years.

Sounds like a bit of bitterness to me on your part. ??????

Edited June 3, 2019 by Retrojambo

[Seymour M Hersh]

On 02/06/2019 at 07:32, Nookie Bear said:

 

Love this. 

 

More of these guys please. The more that it winds up the fans who spend hundreds of pounds a year to earn their EPL SOOPASTARS pose around their billion pound stadiums whilst we watch flawed pros give 100% the better. 

 

Liverpool fans hold a banner at Tynie complaining about money in football whilst they applaud £18m Henderson (pish) being replaced by £20m Joe Allen. 

 

Let them lose their game. 

 

I'd say, like the Murphy's you're not bitter" but clearly you are, very! 

[Kiwidoug]

Just saw the highlights again.  That Robertson is some player but no surprise with that surname.  He was indirectly responsible for the 2nd goal.  His brilliant cross was cleared for a corner which led to the goal.

[Nookie Bear]

55 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

I'd say, like the Murphy's you're not bitter" but clearly you are, very! 

 

Nah not really. 

 

Dont actually mind Liverpool. The way they play is exciting, Klopp is a sound guy etc

 

Just funny watching their game disappear up its own arse. 

[shaun.lawson]

On 02/06/2019 at 03:32, Nookie Bear said:

 

Love this. 

 

More of these guys please. The more that it winds up the fans who spend hundreds of pounds a year to earn their EPL SOOPASTARS pose around their billion pound stadiums whilst we watch flawed pros give 100% the better. 

 

Liverpool fans hold a banner at Tynie complaining about money in football whilst they applaud £18m Henderson (pish) being replaced by £20m Joe Allen. 

 

Let them lose their game. 

 

It hasn't been lost. It's you - and others - who just don't understand it. Old men shouting at clouds.

 

Some amount of nonsense on this thread. We have Hearts fans ridiculing the whole concept of the Champions League. Sorry - I must've missed the seethe and despair when Hearts reached the Champions League by finishing... 2nd.

 

We have people comically defending a setup which has produced 2 title-winning clubs in 34 years and will probably never produce a different one ever again while ridiculing a setup which just produced 4 European finalists out of 4.

 

We have people whose knowledge of sport is so non-existent, they don't realise what a ridiculous 3-week break from football is going to do to even the best sides. That break destroyed the match as a spectacle. 

 

We have people slagging off plastics and complaining about football losing its soul when... remind me please. How many contributors do FOH have? Rather more than 15,000 Hearts fans helped save the club... but how could that possibly be? Only season ticket holders are genuine fans innit. Hey - why don't FOH return the contributions of anyone who wasn't born in Edinburgh? Can't be dealing with those types.

 

And for the crowning turd in the waterpipe, we have you accusing Liverpool of losing their identity. You what? That club's done more to successfully maintain its identity than any leading club in Europe. Their fans still make a cacophonous din; Anfield still has the same aura it always did, an aura which is famous worldwide; and Klopp's like a latter-day Shankly in the connection he has with the fans. 

 

Jordan Henderson in tears at the end, hugging his father who only recently beat cancer. Do you think he, the Liverpool captain, has lost his soul or identity or something? Do you think Trent Alexander-Arnold, having a kickaround with his mates on the pitch after just winning the European Cup, has either? Do you think Jurgen Klopp, a man who couldn't be more authentic, who couldn't fit his club any better is some corporate sell-out? No? So stop spouting such complete and utter bollocks.

 

And yes, the sport is changing. Football's never been bigger or more popular all around the world... and this season's Champions League, the final excepted, has been absolutely astonishing. Juve-Atletico. PSG-Man Utd. Madrid-Ajax. Juve-Ajax. Man City-Tottenham, the greatest football match I've ever seen. Liverpool-Barca, the highest quality performance from an English club in Europe I've ever seen. And Ajax-Tottenham, probably the most unbelievable football match I've ever seen. And I'm not alone in much of that either. 

 

You know what your problem is, Nookie? You think football should be the sole preserve of working class old school types. People who think the whole sport is about tribalism and hatred. Well - it's not. And you can't bear that it's not. I, too, am DISGUSTED by those half and half shirts... I so much preferred the 1980s, when people died when they went to football matches. Why can't we have those times back eh? Hate violence racism punch-ups and death... real halcyon days, those. 

 

Congratulations to Liverpool, Champions of Europe yet again. The bitterness of those who'd give anything for Hearts to ever be in the same position is just unreal. The bitterness of those who can't bear that football is about a heck of a lot more than tribalism or hatred, even more so.

 

And of course, had Liverpool lost, folk would've been straight in to put the boot in... cos Liverpool are like Celtic, know what I mean? Presumably, the people who believe such gibberish can't have noticed who, ahem, Rangers' manager is. 

Edited June 4, 2019 by shaun.lawson

[doctor jambo]

11 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

It hasn't been lost. It's you - and others - who just don't understand it. Old men shouting at clouds.

 

Some amount of nonsense on this thread. We have Hearts fans ridiculing the whole concept of the Champions League. Sorry - I must've missed the seethe and despair when Hearts reached the Champions League by finishing... 2nd.

 

We have people comically defending a setup which has produced 2 title-winning clubs in 34 years and will probably never produce a different one ever again while ridiculing a setup which just produced 4 European finalists out of 4.

 

We have people whose knowledge of sport is so non-existent, they don't realise what a ridiculous 3-week break from football is going to do to even the best sides. That break destroyed the match as a spectacle. 

 

We have people slagging off plastics and complaining about football losing its soul when... remind me please. How many contributors do FOH have? Rather more than 15,000 Hearts fans helped save the club... but how could that possibly be? Only season ticket holders are genuine fans innit. Hey - why don't FOH return the contributions of anyone who wasn't born in Edinburgh? Can't be dealing with those types.

 

And for the crowning turd in the waterpipe, we have you accusing Liverpool of losing their identity. You what? That club's done more to successfully maintain its identity than any leading club in Europe. Their fans still make a cacophonous din; Anfield still has the same aura it always did, an aura which is famous worldwide; and Klopp's like a latter-day Shankly in the connection he has with the fans. 

 

Jordan Henderson in tears at the end, hugging his father who only recently beat cancer. Do you think he, the Liverpool captain, has lost his soul or identity or something? Do you think Trent Alexander-Arnold, having a kickaround with his mates on the pitch after just winning the European Cup, has either? Do you think Jurgen Klopp, a man who couldn't be more authentic, who couldn't fit his club any better is some corporate sell-out? No? So stop spouting such complete and utter bollocks.

 

And yes, the sport is changing. Football's never been bigger or more popular all around the world... and this season's Champions League, the final excepted, has been absolutely astonishing. Juve-Atletico. PSG-Man Utd. Madrid-Ajax. Juve-Ajax. Man City-Tottenham, the greatest football match I've ever seen. Liverpool-Barca, the highest quality performance from an English club in Europe I've ever seen. And Ajax-Tottenham, probably the most unbelievable football match I've ever seen. And I'm not alone in much of that either. 

 

You know what your problem is, Nookie? You think football should be the sole preserve of working class old school types. People who think the whole sport is about tribalism and hatred. Well - it's not. And you can't bear that it's not. I, too, am DISGUSTED by those half and half shirts... I so much preferred the 1980s, when people died when they went to football matches. Why can't we have those times back eh? Hate violence racism punch-ups and death... real halcyon days, those. 

 

Congratulations to Liverpool, Champions of Europe yet again. The bitterness of those who'd give anything for Hearts to ever be in the same position is just unreal. The bitterness of those who can't bear that football is about a heck of a lot more than tribalism or hatred, even more so.

 

And of course, had Liverpool lost, folk would've been straight in to put the boot in... cos Liverpool are like Celtic, know what I mean? Presumably, the people who believe such gibberish can't have noticed who, ahem, Rangers' manager is. 

But you are the archetypal “new fan”.

All internet and no bond.

Know everything from a screen, nothing from the stands with your tribe.

The increasing superficiality of the bonds that lash us to our clubs- whilst the giants prosper and take our fans.

the end result is a few super clubs , and the rest will dwindle .

Support is now more based on success (wealth), and not on community/birth/family.

Soccer ball is eating itself from the feet up

[Nookie Bear]

39 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

It hasn't been lost. It's you - and others - who just don't understand it. Old men shouting at clouds.

 

Some amount of nonsense on this thread. We have Hearts fans ridiculing the whole concept of the Champions League. Sorry - I must've missed the seethe and despair when Hearts reached the Champions League by finishing... 2nd.

 

We have people comically defending a setup which has produced 2 title-winning clubs in 34 years and will probably never produce a different one ever again while ridiculing a setup which just produced 4 European finalists out of 4.

 

We have people whose knowledge of sport is so non-existent, they don't realise what a ridiculous 3-week break from football is going to do to even the best sides. That break destroyed the match as a spectacle. 

 

We have people slagging off plastics and complaining about football losing its soul when... remind me please. How many contributors do FOH have? Rather more than 15,000 Hearts fans helped save the club... but how could that possibly be? Only season ticket holders are genuine fans innit. Hey - why don't FOH return the contributions of anyone who wasn't born in Edinburgh? Can't be dealing with those types.

 

And for the crowning turd in the waterpipe, we have you accusing Liverpool of losing their identity. You what? That club's done more to successfully maintain its identity than any leading club in Europe. Their fans still make a cacophonous din; Anfield still has the same aura it always did, an aura which is famous worldwide; and Klopp's like a latter-day Shankly in the connection he has with the fans. 

 

Jordan Henderson in tears at the end, hugging his father who only recently beat cancer. Do you think he, the Liverpool captain, has lost his soul or identity or something? Do you think Trent Alexander-Arnold, having a kickaround with his mates on the pitch after just winning the European Cup, has either? Do you think Jurgen Klopp, a man who couldn't be more authentic, who couldn't fit his club any better is some corporate sell-out? No? So stop spouting such complete and utter bollocks.

 

And yes, the sport is changing. Football's never been bigger or more popular all around the world... and this season's Champions League, the final excepted, has been absolutely astonishing. Juve-Atletico. PSG-Man Utd. Madrid-Ajax. Juve-Ajax. Man City-Tottenham, the greatest football match I've ever seen. Liverpool-Barca, the highest quality performance from an English club in Europe I've ever seen. And Ajax-Tottenham, probably the most unbelievable football match I've ever seen. And I'm not alone in much of that either. 

 

You know what your problem is, Nookie? You think football should be the sole preserve of working class old school types. People who think the whole sport is about tribalism and hatred. Well - it's not. And you can't bear that it's not. I, too, am DISGUSTED by those half and half shirts... I so much preferred the 1980s, when people died when they went to football matches. Why can't we have those times back eh? Hate violence racism punch-ups and death... real halcyon days, those. 

 

Congratulations to Liverpool, Champions of Europe yet again. The bitterness of those who'd give anything for Hearts to ever be in the same position is just unreal. The bitterness of those who can't bear that football is about a heck of a lot more than tribalism or hatred, even more so.

 

And of course, had Liverpool lost, folk would've been straight in to put the boot in... cos Liverpool are like Celtic, know what I mean? Presumably, the people who believe such gibberish can't have noticed who, ahem, Rangers' manager is. 

 

Nope, didn't read.

[Nookie Bear]

1 minute ago, doctor jambo said:

But you are the archetypal “new fan”.

All internet and no bond.

Know everything from a screen, nothing from the stands with your tribe.

The increasing superficiality of the bonds that lash us to our clubs- whilst the giants prosper and take our fans.

the end result is a few super clubs , and the rest will dwindle .

Support is now more based on success (wealth), and not on community/birth/family.

Soccer ball is eating itself from the feet up

 

Absolutely.

[doctor jambo]

Just now, Nookie Bear said:

 

Nope, didn't read.

He misses the point that we used to play Bayern, Aberdeen vs Real Madrid, Dundee Utd vs Barca.

this will never happen again!

i couldn’t give a shiny one about spurs vs Liverpool because I don’t follow my team as an online hobby

[Nookie Bear]

1 hour ago, shaun.lawson said:

I've read it now, Shaun.

 

1 hour ago, shaun.lawson said:

It hasn't been lost. It's you - and others - who just don't understand it. Old men shouting at clouds. I am actually the average age of the Scottish football fan so i am still relevant.

 

Some amount of nonsense on this thread. We have Hearts fans ridiculing the whole concept of the Champions League. Sorry - I must've missed the seethe and despair when Hearts reached the Champions League by finishing... 2nd. Because it was a ridiculous achievement for a club like ours. I wonder how many of your Norwich pals are saying the same thing now, forgetting their joy at their Euro history.

 

We have people comically defending a setup which has produced 2 title-winning clubs in 34 years and will probably never produce a different one ever again while ridiculing a setup which just produced 4 European finalists out of 4. Who is defending this set-up? How about fair distribution of money in the game so all leagues benefit?

 

We have people whose knowledge of sport is so non-existent, they don't realise what a ridiculous 3-week break from football is going to do to even the best sides. That break destroyed the match as a spectacle. Patronising. But do you not think Spurs and Liverpool have enough sports scientists employed to deal with that kind of thing? Even amateur runners know that is going to be an issue.

 

We have people slagging off plastics and complaining about football losing its soul when... remind me please. How many contributors do FOH have? Rather more than 15,000 Hearts fans helped save the club... but how could that possibly be? Only season ticket holders are genuine fans innit. Hey - why don't FOH return the contributions of anyone who wasn't born in Edinburgh? Can't be dealing with those types. Now, this is an old man shouting at the clouds.

 

And for the crowning turd in the waterpipe, we have you accusing Liverpool of losing their identity. You what? That club's done more to successfully maintain its identity than any leading club in Europe. Their fans still make a cacophonous din; Anfield still has the same aura it always did, an aura which is famous worldwide; and Klopp's like a latter-day Shankly in the connection he has with the fans. Not disagreeing with this, but it is hypocritical of a fan to wave banners complaining about TV money when it funds their success. Klopp has a long way to go to get to Shankly's level, by the way.

 

Jordan Henderson in tears at the end, hugging his father who only recently beat cancer. Do you think he, the Liverpool captain, has lost his soul or identity or something? Do you think Trent Alexander-Arnold, having a kickaround with his mates on the pitch after just winning the European Cup, has either? Do you think Jurgen Klopp, a man who couldn't be more authentic, who couldn't fit his club any better is some corporate sell-out? No? So stop spouting such complete and utter bollocks. Do you need a cancer-surviving dad to have soul? Every fooballer - whether they play for Liverpool or Stenhousemuir - has someone to thank for getting them there, and Henderson was acknowledging that.

 

And yes, the sport is changing. Football's never been bigger or more popular all around the world... and this season's Champions League, the final excepted, has been absolutely astonishing. Juve-Atletico. PSG-Man Utd. Madrid-Ajax. Juve-Ajax. Man City-Tottenham, the greatest football match I've ever seen. Liverpool-Barca, the highest quality performance from an English club in Europe I've ever seen. And Ajax-Tottenham, probably the most unbelievable football match I've ever seen. And I'm not alone in much of that either. The tournament has been excellent IN THE KNOCKOUT STAGES. Before that, it was the usual bore. Maybe that needs looked at, but it will not be because the next move is a European Super League and a closed shop.

 

You know what your problem is, Nookie? You think football should be the sole preserve of working class old school types. As a middle-class man, i resent that argument. You would do well to stop the judgemental stuff on here because you do not know me one little bit.

 

People who think the whole sport is about tribalism and hatred. Well - it's not. It is about tribalism in some form. If it isnt about that, then what is it about? It becomes 22 men kicking a ball. You're the first to big up the passion of non-British football fans so you cannot have it both ways. All the Wikipedia pages on the planet will not even get 1% of the feeling 20k of us had when Ryan Edwards scored in the final. You will never have that feeling Shaun because you think it is beneath you.

And you can't bear that it's not. I, too, am DISGUSTED by those half and half shirts... I so much preferred the 1980s, when people died when they went to football matches. Why can't we have those times back eh? Hate violence racism punch-ups and death... real halcyon days, those.

That is quite a leap in thinking. Remind me who killed 39 Juve fans, by the way.

 

Congratulations to Liverpool, Champions of Europe yet again. Yes, definitely.

The bitterness of those who'd give anything for Hearts to ever be in the same position is just unreal. The bitterness of those who can't bear that football is about a heck of a lot more than tribalism or hatred, even more so. Bitter because football has evolved to a state of haves and have-nots. We will never be in the Cl because CL money gives celtic a free pass every year - and so it goes on...

 

And of course, had Liverpool lost, folk would've been straight in to put the boot in... cos Liverpool are like Celtic, know what I mean? Presumably, the people who believe such gibberish can't have noticed who, ahem, Rangers' manager is. Irrelevant. Liverpool are (jokingly) compared to celtic because of their tendency to take some sort of moral high ground and go crying to the world when they see injustice.

 

[Alden Dunne]

Manchester United, Tottenham and Liverpool were all participants in this season's European CHAMPION'S League competition. Why? Because it's an engineered competition that seeks to attract the clubs with the highest number of fans. It is only slightly acknowledging to the real champions of an individual member country's actual champions. (Purely from memory) Liverpool were actually 4th in the EPL. When the seeded groups were finished, neither of the above teams actually won their group, but thanks to the engineering skills of UEFA, they were allowed to go forward to the knock-out stages, where the luck of the draw and individuals' interpretations of VAR triumphed.

Liverpool FC. Champions of Europe, but only the second best team in England. (Or have I missed something?)

[The Old Tolbooth]

12 hours ago, Retrojambo said:

I’m not missing any point.

Your replying to a post about how they can claim to be the best in Europe if they can’t win the league. They’ve won the Champions league because of the way it’s set up and they qualified, like most other teams from major countries who finish in the top 2nd 3 or 4. I’ll point out they have won 4 European cups having won the league.

Hearts finished 2nd in in 2006 and if your old enough you’ll remember the celebrations when they qualified. If Hearts had managed to get in the group stage and incredibly go on and win it, you’re telling me you wouldn’t call Hearts The Champions of Europe ??,

and yes I’m a Liverpool season ticket holder, from Liverpool now living in Edinburgh since 1982, who has a Hearts daft son and Introduced to Hearts in the early 90’s.

So yes I have been to watch both teams many many times over the years.

Sounds like a bit of bitterness to me on your part. ??????

 

Bang on the cash mate, the seethe on here is lovely, I'm lapping it up  

[doctor jambo]

42 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

Absolutely.

shankley would be spinning in his grave at how football has "evolved"

saying as he was a socialist to the core, from a mining community.

the fans and players and clubs/owners of today would be anathema to him.

I can just imagine him trying to get Sturridge to apply himself for the meagre 80 k per week he is on.....

[benny]

2 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

shankley would be spinning in his grave at how football has "evolved"

saying as he was a socialist to the core, from a mining community.

the fans and players and clubs/owners of today would be anathema to him.

I can just imagine him trying to get Sturridge to apply himself for the meagre 80 k per week he is on.....

You could argue that Liverpool under Shankley started the trend with having owners that ran the Littlewoods pools company.

All of a sudden Liverpool got promoted and started paying wages and transfer fees a lot higher than they used to.

The Moore's put in huge amounts at the time.Nothing against what they done but they were a major influence on the rise of Liverpool FC.

[Mr Elwood P]

18 hours ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

 

It's generally easier to win cups, even the European Cup, than it is to win the league. Freak results, easy draws etc can see you in the final and even win it.

 

A true barometer is winning the league, as you say, Liverpool haven't done so in nearly 30 years.

 

That is blatantly untrue. PSG and Manchester City are racking up league titles but can't get that elusive Champions League trophy. 

Edited June 4, 2019 by Mr Elwood P

[Seymour M Hersh]

1 hour ago, doctor jambo said:

shankley would be spinning in his grave at how football has "evolved"

saying as he was a socialist to the core, from a mining community.

the fans and players and clubs/owners of today would be anathema to him.

I can just imagine him trying to get Sturridge to apply himself for the meagre 80 k per week he is on.....

 

He'd be spinning at the way you've spelt his name as well! 

 

Football has changed ever so slightly in the 60 years since Shanks took over at Anfield. Some of it for the betterment of the game and some not so much. I am pretty sure Shanks would perhaps not be the biggest advocate of the way things have gone but would adapt and evolve.  And yes I can imagine him getting Sturridge to apply himself  (as Klopp has done) whether he was on £100.00 a week or whatever he's on now. 

 

But, at the top level the corporates have taken over and you have two choices. Go all in or walk away. 

[hmfc_liam06]

42 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

That is blatantly untrue. PSG and Manchester City are racking up league titles but can't get that elusive Champions League trophy. 

 

Flip it around and my point is bang on. Liverpool are actually a great example. As are clubs outwith Celtic in Scotland.

[Mr Elwood P]

3 minutes ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

 

Flip it around and my point is bang on. Liverpool are actually a great example. As are clubs outwith Celtic in Scotland.

 

Liverpool managed the third highest points total in Premier League history and didn't win the league, it's a freak occurrence. What are teams such as Hearts / Aberdeen an example of? We've more chance of winning the league in Scotland than we do the Europa League. Both almost impossible. 

Edited June 4, 2019 by Mr Elwood P

[hmfc_liam06]

3 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

Liverpool managed the third highest points total in Premier League history and didn't win the league, it's a freak occurrence. What are teams such as Hearts / Aberdeen an example of? We've more chance of winning the league in Scotland than we do the Europa League. Both almost impossible. 

 

We're an example of how it is easier to win cups than the league. Look forward to you proving that wrong.

 

And Liverpool finishing with those amount of points and not winning the league kinda enhances my point even more tbh.

Edited June 4, 2019 by hmfc_liam06

[Mr Elwood P]

Just now, hmfc_liam06 said:

 

We're an example of how it is easier to win cups than the league. Look forward to you proving that wrong.

 

I'm talking about European Cups. We've won the league in Scotland, we haven't won any European Cups. Done.

[hmfc_liam06]

1 minute ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

I'm talking about European Cups. We've won the league in Scotland, we haven't won any European Cups. Done.

 

I'm sorry, I mentioned European Cups specifically where exactly? Obviously it's harder for Hearts to win the Champions League FFS. Just as it is for Kelty Hearts. Using far fetched examples to make your point.

 

Back in the real world, I'll continue using relative examples.

 

Done indeed.

 

 

[Mr Elwood P]

19 hours ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

 

It's generally easier to win cups, even the European Cup, than it is to win the league. Freak results, easy draws etc can see you in the final and even win it.

 

A true barometer is winning the league, as you say, Liverpool haven't done so in nearly 30 years.

 

Right here.

[Mr Elwood P]

3 minutes ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

 

I'm sorry, I mentioned European Cups specifically where exactly? Obviously it's harder for Hearts to win the Champions League FFS. Just as it is for Kelty Hearts. Using far fetched examples to make your point.

 

Back in the real world, I'll continue using relative examples.

 

Done indeed.

 

 

 

It was you that introduced the 'Scottish teams outside Celtic', I was talking about winning the Champions League v winning a domestic league as this is the Champions League thread ...

[Boof]

6 hours ago, Kiwidoug said:

Just saw the highlights again.  That Robertson is some player but no surprise with that surname.  He was indirectly responsible for the 2nd goal.  His brilliant cross was cleared for a corner which led to the goal.

 

Aha - where did you find these highlights? I've been after 'em since Saturday night, to no avail.

[hmfc_liam06]

1 minute ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

It was you that introduced the 'Scottish teams outside Celtic', I was talking about winning the Champions League v winning a domestic league as this is the Champions League thread ...

 

Yes, in relation to my point earlier.

 

Just to be clear. Liverpool winning the Champions League is less of an achievement than them winning the league, as it is far more difficult winning a league title.

 

Done.

[Bad Religion]

3 minutes ago, Boof said:

 

Aha - where did you find these highlights? I've been after 'em since Saturday night, to no avail.

 

https://www.fullmatchesandshows.com/2019/06/01/tottenham-hotspur-vs-liverpool-highlights-full-match-ucl-final/

[Boof]

2 minutes ago, Bad Religion said:

 

https://www.fullmatchesandshows.com/2019/06/01/tottenham-hotspur-vs-liverpool-highlights-full-match-ucl-final/

 

Brilliant! Many thanks  

[Mr Elwood P]

Just now, hmfc_liam06 said:

 

Yes, in relation to my point earlier.

 

Just to be clear. Liverpool winning the Champions League is less of an achievement than them winning the league, as it is far more difficult winning a league title.

 

Done.

 

Just to be clear I disagree. It takes an entire season of high level performances to even qualify for the Champions League. You then have to qualify from your group and then go head to head with the remaining elite teams of European football over two legs. You then have to win the final. Look how many league titles Juventus, Manchester United, PSG, Manchester City, Bayern Munich etc have and then look how many European cups they have won. It is abundantly clear that the domestic league is the far easier competition to win.

[benny]

20 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

Just to be clear I disagree. It takes an entire season of high level performances to even qualify for the Champions League. You then have to qualify from your group and then go head to head with the remaining elite teams of European football over two legs. You then have to win the final. Look how many league titles Juventus, Manchester United, PSG, Manchester City, Bayern Munich etc have and then look how many European cups they have won. It is abundantly clear that the domestic league is the far easier competition to win.

Liverpool got beat 4 times in the champions league and only once in the league.

So your theory doesn't stack up.

Great achievement in winning the champions league but the epl is harder to win.

How many teams have won the epl.5.Now compare that to the winners of the champions league in the same time.

 

[Mr Elwood P]

10 minutes ago, benny said:

Liverpool got beat 4 times in the champions league and only once in the league.

So your theory doesn't stack up.

Great achievement in winning the champions league but the epl is harder to win.

How many teams have won the epl.5.Now compare that to the winners of the champions league in the same time.

 

 

So why has no team won more European Cups than they have domestic league titles? How many teams have played in the English Premier League and how many teams have played in the Champions League? Liverpool losing four Champions League games and one Premier League game proves the exact opposite of your point. It is clear evidence that the Champions League is much more competitive. 

Edited June 4, 2019 by Mr Elwood P

[doctor jambo]

40 minutes ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

 

Yes, in relation to my point earlier.

 

Just to be clear. Liverpool winning the Champions League is less of an achievement than them winning the league, as it is far more difficult winning a league title.

 

Done.

I'd take a champions league win over a league title every time.

It is the elite competition, with massive global reach,

and it will also attract lots of plasticky  fans to the new Uber champions- which is entirely the point of modern football.

It means that more kids in Mexico, Canada, Italy and Scotland will switch their allegiances from Barcelona to Liverpool and buy new merchandise .

Celtic still dine out on theirs from 50 years ago, but wont even turn up for a league title celebration.

Its harder for Celtic to win a domestic cup than the league as they spend 90 % of games pumping some unfortunate minnows- much as the EPL is

[The Old Tolbooth]

56 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

I'd take a champions league win over a league title every time.

It is the elite competition, with massive global reach,

and it will also attract lots of plasticky  fans to the new Uber champions- which is entirely the point of modern football.

It means that more kids in Mexico, Canada, Italy and Scotland will switch their allegiances from Barcelona to Liverpool and buy new merchandise .

Celtic still dine out on theirs from 50 years ago, but wont even turn up for a league title celebration.

Its harder for Celtic to win a domestic cup than the league as they spend 90 % of games pumping some unfortunate minnows- much as the EPL is

 

Nailed it 100%, winning the CL is miles more prestigious (and difficult) than winning the EPL, the only reason Liverpool didn't win the EPL is because City are a freak of nature at the minute (and I'm aware that slightly contradicts my point, although Liverpool did pretty much have the league in the bag and threw it away in February), however City would give their right nut to lift the CL title, in fact they'd give over their entire treble to have the honour of calling themselves European champions....just once! Their time will come though, as long as they hold onto Pep. 

 

The money this win generates for Liverpool is off the scale, it's frightening! 

 

1 hour ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

Just to be clear I disagree. It takes an entire season of high level performances to even qualify for the Champions League. You then have to qualify from your group and then go head to head with the remaining elite teams of European football over two legs. You then have to win the final. Look how many league titles Juventus, Manchester United, PSG, Manchester City, Bayern Munich etc have and then look how many European cups they have won. It is abundantly clear that the domestic league is the far easier competition to win.

 

You're wasting your time arguing mate, even though you're right. 

[The Old Tolbooth]

1 hour ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

 

Yes, in relation to my point earlier.

 

Just to be clear. Liverpool winning the Champions League is less of an achievement than them winning the league, as it is far more difficult winning a league title.

 

Done.

 

For some reason, Liverpool make a mockery of the Champions League, they tend to do very well when they're in it, as do Real Madrid historically as well, and also AC Milan in the past, they're about the only 3 who dominate the comp as much though, and much better sides who have all been regular league winners in the past have failed to win the big one on a regular occasion, or even at all, Arsenal (never won it), Chelsea only once), PSG (never won it), Bayern (won it 2 or 3 times), Man Utd (only 3 times), even Barca are behind Liverpool now, and they're regarded as the greatest club side ever to play the game by many, it's not an easy comp to win. 

 

Liverpool have an absolute love affair with European football, Anfield absolutely changes for European nights, the team changes, the club changes, something magical happens, it might sound a bit corny, but the evidence is there for all to see and no other club in English football is anywhere close to replicating what Liverpool have on European nights, you don't get anywhere near the same atmosphere or passion when it comes to league games, or domestic cup games at Anfield, and although the fans wanted the EPL title badly, winning an even bigger title is a damn good fall back. 

[doctor jambo]

8 minutes ago, The Old Tolbooth said:

 

Nailed it 100%, winning the CL is miles more prestigious (and difficult) than winning the EPL, the only reason Liverpool didn't win the EPL is because City are a freak of nature at the minute (and I'm aware that slightly contradicts my point, although Liverpool did pretty much have the league in the bag and threw it away in February), however City would give their right nut to lift the CL title, in fact they'd give over their entire treble to have the honour of calling themselves European champions....just once! Their time will come though, as long as they hold onto Pep. 

 

The money this win generates for Liverpool is off the scale, it's frightening! 

 

 

You're wasting your time arguing mate, even though you're right. 

Add on that without Champions league the elite players won’t join you,  

[Mr Elwood P]

19 minutes ago, The Old Tolbooth said:

 

Nailed it 100%, winning the CL is miles more prestigious (and difficult) than winning the EPL, the only reason Liverpool didn't win the EPL is because City are a freak of nature at the minute (and I'm aware that slightly contradicts my point, although Liverpool did pretty much have the league in the bag and threw it away in February), however City would give their right nut to lift the CL title, in fact they'd give over their entire treble to have the honour of calling themselves European champions....just once! Their time will come though, as long as they hold onto Pep. 

 

The money this win generates for Liverpool is off the scale, it's frightening! 

 

 

You're wasting your time arguing mate, even though you're right. 

 

That's all I wanted.

[The Old Tolbooth]

18 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

Add on that without Champions league the elite players won’t join you,  

 

It certainly makes it much more difficult mate, for sure. 

[Maroon Sailor]

Pretty sure most Liverpool fans would have taken a hit on that 6th European Cup for the Premier League trophy.

 

Anyway congratulations on winning another European Cup and here's to the next 30 years without winning the Premier League ! 

 

 

[Stephane Grappelli]

On 04/06/2019 at 08:41, shaun.lawson said:

 

It hasn't been lost. It's you - and others - who just don't understand it. Old men shouting at clouds.

 

Some amount of nonsense on this thread. We have Hearts fans ridiculing the whole concept of the Champions League. Sorry - I must've missed the seethe and despair when Hearts reached the Champions League by finishing... 2nd.

 

We have people comically defending a setup which has produced 2 title-winning clubs in 34 years and will probably never produce a different one ever again while ridiculing a setup which just produced 4 European finalists out of 4.

 

We have people whose knowledge of sport is so non-existent, they don't realise what a ridiculous 3-week break from football is going to do to even the best sides. That break destroyed the match as a spectacle. 

 

We have people slagging off plastics and complaining about football losing its soul when... remind me please. How many contributors do FOH have? Rather more than 15,000 Hearts fans helped save the club... but how could that possibly be? Only season ticket holders are genuine fans innit. Hey - why don't FOH return the contributions of anyone who wasn't born in Edinburgh? Can't be dealing with those types.

 

And for the crowning turd in the waterpipe, we have you accusing Liverpool of losing their identity. You what? That club's done more to successfully maintain its identity than any leading club in Europe. Their fans still make a cacophonous din; Anfield still has the same aura it always did, an aura which is famous worldwide; and Klopp's like a latter-day Shankly in the connection he has with the fans. 

 

Jordan Henderson in tears at the end, hugging his father who only recently beat cancer. Do you think he, the Liverpool captain, has lost his soul or identity or something? Do you think Trent Alexander-Arnold, having a kickaround with his mates on the pitch after just winning the European Cup, has either? Do you think Jurgen Klopp, a man who couldn't be more authentic, who couldn't fit his club any better is some corporate sell-out? No? So stop spouting such complete and utter bollocks.

 

And yes, the sport is changing. Football's never been bigger or more popular all around the world... and this season's Champions League, the final excepted, has been absolutely astonishing. Juve-Atletico. PSG-Man Utd. Madrid-Ajax. Juve-Ajax. Man City-Tottenham, the greatest football match I've ever seen. Liverpool-Barca, the highest quality performance from an English club in Europe I've ever seen. And Ajax-Tottenham, probably the most unbelievable football match I've ever seen. And I'm not alone in much of that either. 

 

You know what your problem is, Nookie? You think football should be the sole preserve of working class old school types. People who think the whole sport is about tribalism and hatred. Well - it's not. And you can't bear that it's not. I, too, am DISGUSTED by those half and half shirts... I so much preferred the 1980s, when people died when they went to football matches. Why can't we have those times back eh? Hate violence racism punch-ups and death... real halcyon days, those. 

 

Congratulations to Liverpool, Champions of Europe yet again. The bitterness of those who'd give anything for Hearts to ever be in the same position is just unreal. The bitterness of those who can't bear that football is about a heck of a lot more than tribalism or hatred, even more so.

 

And of course, had Liverpool lost, folk would've been straight in to put the boot in... cos Liverpool are like Celtic, know what I mean? Presumably, the people who believe such gibberish can't have noticed who, ahem, Rangers' manager is. 

 

Did you manage to keep a straight face while typing that Shaun?  Dear oh dear.

 

Liverpool are the biggest sell outs on the planet.  A plaything for rich Americans and just another "franchise" to them.

 

How many Englishman, let alone Scousers, are in their squad?  

 

Watching Sky Sports News of the celebrations in Madrid and Liverpool you could hardly hear a Scouse accent.   Irish, Norwegian, Asian, Cockney... all in abundance but hardly anyone from Liverpool.

 

Despite Everton being the traditional Catholic club of the city, the parallels with Celtic are staggering.  Two fanbases offended by everything but embarrassed by nothing.  Clubs which love to point the finger but not so quick to hold their hands up.  Both self proclaimed clubs of the people with the greatest fans in the world, according to them.

 

Despite your hatred of them, a club like Real Madrid is more of a club of the people.  Still owned by the fans, just as it has been ever since it was formed.  Indeed, it recently tightened up it's rules to ensure that it would always be owned by its fans and not fall into the hands of some unscrupulous money man with promises of infinite wealth.  All that, and it has been Champion of Europe more than double the times that Liverpool have.  All the English clubs put together can only match the total of the venerable Real Madrid in terms of the European Cup/Champions League.