Phil Dunphy Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 I can’t see how this’ll work against better teams in the Premiership tbh. Maybe be away in Glasgow, but not every week. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absolute Scenes Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 We lost one game out of 6 playing the formation this season so I'd say it works Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambomjm74 Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 It did not work at all - slowed us down. how mulraney found himself in at left back ahead of the new Aussie lad or Burns ? One of the craziest of leveins decisions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19/05/2012 Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 He has signed 13 players and we still don’t have the players to suit the formation it’s a joke need to go 4231 or 442 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brux Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 We looked better when Haring went in to midfield today. Not a fan of this 3 5 1 1 we seems to be going for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Dunphy Posted July 21, 2018 Author Share Posted July 21, 2018 3 minutes ago, Absolute Scenes said: We lost one game out of 6 playing the formation this season so I'd say it works Against which Premiership side? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerbandit Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 1 minute ago, brux said: We looked better when Haring went in to midfield today. Not a fan of this 3 5 1 1 we seems to be going for Agree. Lets see two wingers in the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
...a bit disco Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 Sometimes 442 is all you need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosanostra Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 I hate 352. Always have. We never seem to manage to make it work for us to any degree if consistency. No idea why Levein has gone with that formation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tartofmidlothian Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 10 minutes ago, Phil Dunphy said: I can’t see how this’ll work against better teams in the Premiership tbh. Maybe be away in Glasgow, but not every week. Thoughts? Did we go 4-4-2 at the end or did Haring and Smith just swap? It was hard to tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busby1985 Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 12 new players in and we STILL don’t have the players to play that formation. 12 new players in and the subs today where all youth academy players. Levein either hasn’t a clue what his best starting 11/formation is or he’s playing champ man with us. MacLean and the new boy not involved today, big man is meant to be carrying an injury, makes the decision not to have MacLean on the bench even worse. He hooks bozanic, who contributed the most, and leaves Lee on who done nothing. He brings Morrison on, he causes them all kinds of bother down the right and then immediately switches him with McDonald. We are two weeks from the start of the season and we have no idea our strongest starting 11 and or best formation. The exact same as last year. How many new players do we need before someone goes “maybe we should get rid of the one common factor in all this”. Blamed Cathro for the nonsense we seen last season, we are seeing the same crap now. Change is needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enzo Chiefo Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 8 minutes ago, ...a bit disco said: Sometimes 442 is all you need. 442 is absolutely the best formation imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Turn Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 Doesn't work against teams playing one striker. Works against 2 strikers though. i think we played that way was because CL wanted to work on shape but clearly it was unnecessary in this game as we were left with 3 players marking one player, which is meant we were losing an extra man elsewhere on the pitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Famous 1874 Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 Only useful against teams that play 2 strikers. Otherwise there is no point in using it. Could probably use it against teams that play 3ATB. Should be a secondary formation that we can switch to if need be. Haring allows us to switch formation in game which is ideal, however today it took too long to change it. Should have been changed within the first 10 mins once they setup with just the one up top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Turn Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 13 minutes ago, Ali Lawrie said: Only useful against teams that play 2 strikers. Otherwise there is no point in using it. Could probably use it against teams that play 3ATB. Should be a secondary formation that we can switch to if need be. Haring allows us to switch formation in game which is ideal, however today it took too long to change it. Should have been changed within the first 10 mins once they setup with just the one up top. If we're setting up like that vs 1 striker, Either switch Haring into defensive midfield & go 4 atb or allow Souttar a free role as a Libero to go forward. Otherwise you have to switch to a back 4. CL did this v Sevco at Ibrox last season twice and didn't change it until it was too late, twice we got humped. He Makes the change far too late. I've seen Bielsa (who plays 3-3-1-3) have a player stripped and ready as a sub within 15 minutes into a game if the other team has changed from 2 forwards to one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Famous 1874 Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 2 minutes ago, Cruyff Turn said: If we're setting up like that vs 1 striker, Either switch Haring into defensive midfield & go 4 atb or allow Souttar a free role as a Libero to go forward. Otherwise you have to switch to a back 4. CL did this v Sevco at Ibrox last season twice and didn't change it until it was too late, twice we got humped. He Makes the change far too late. I've seen Bielsa (who plays 3-3-1-3) have a player stripped and ready as a sub within 15 minutes into a game if the other team has changed from 2 forwards to one. Exactly. Changes should have been made instantaneous as soon as they realised that they were playing 1 up top. Haring’s ability to play in midfield can be useful when switching formation. Biesla is crazy eh. Pochettino and Guardiola have both said he is the best coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Vespa Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 I'm not a tactical expert. However I did note, on the commentary it was mentioned that Raith had practiced to play against it. Surely then, better teams will do the same and do better than Raith, do we have a plan b, does it matter if teams can play against it, will we just ne predicatable all season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romulus Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 The formation hangs Berra out to dry and doesn’t suit him one bit. Caught out with this last season too. 4 at the back please! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Turn Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 3 minutes ago, Ali Lawrie said: Exactly. Changes should have been made instantaneous as soon as they realised that they were playing 1 up top. Haring’s ability to play in midfield can be useful when switching formation. Biesla is crazy eh. Pochettino and Guardiola have both said he is the best coach. He's absolutely nuts but a great coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iantjambo Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 54 minutes ago, ...a bit disco said: Sometimes 442 is all you need. 442 isn’t cool anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smith&Weston Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 Formation shouldn’t matter against a League 1 team. If you go out and attack and play to our strengths we win. Couldnt even call it an away game playing at East Fife. Shocking result and likely out the cup again before August. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 Not a fan of 352, but it's not why we drew today. We never got the early goal, Raith sat deep and their plan worked. Later on, when we scored they were mentally and physically drained but it was too little too late. The front two for us were poor today, slow and little movement, suited Raith sitting deep. I prefer a 442 formation but the 352 failed bacaise of the players being poor. It's a game we should have won tho, and we need to be more clinical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambof3tornado Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 3 minutes ago, WeeChuck'sHeed said: Not a fan of 352, but it's not why we drew today. We never got the early goal, Raith sat deep and their plan worked. Later on, when we scored they were mentally and physically drained but it was too little too late. The front two for us were poor today, slow and little movement, suited Raith sitting deep. I prefer a 442 formation but the 352 failed bacaise of the players being poor. It's a game we should have won tho, and we need to be more clinical. We created next to nothing. At Cove we created a lot. Today was very different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 Just now, Jambof3tornado said: We created next to nothing. At Cove we created a lot. Today was very different. It was poor, but we created more than them and still should have won. Imo, the front two were very poor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambof3tornado Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 We barely tested their time wasting ******* of a goalie. But for smiths wonderstrike we were never getting into the match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadj Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 1 hour ago, cosanostra said: I hate 352. Always have. We never seem to manage to make it work for us to any degree if consistency. No idea why Levein has gone with that formation. Its a bit envogue just now i suppose it also might help us push forward more. Has not happened yet though. Their goal and their other big chance second half came from Mulraney leaving his man to run. It allowed us to stretch Cove on wednesday with Mulraney and Morrison hogging the lines and let Lee and Bozanic have space to play today with Smith and Mulraney it didnt work after about 10minutes. Smith doesnt have the pace to drive at the defenders so we ended up one dimensional. Thought that was the best iv seen McDonald look since Christmas when he came on which is promising. Morrison and him added something sorely missing when they came on which is not good enough as a team. I like the thought that if we are going to play 3-5-2 we stick to it and look to play our way instead of worrying about other teams formations but if we do it we need to ensure it happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudi must stay Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Phil Dunphy said: I can’t see how this’ll work against better teams in the Premiership tbh. Maybe be away in Glasgow, but not every week. Thoughts? I think it could work. Our back 3 are very solid, infact Berra seems to play better in a 3, taking control of the defence. Our problems are at the other side of the pitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GorgieBoy2012 Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 Levein is off his heed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingantti1874 Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, rudi must stay said: I think it could work. Our back 3 are very solid, infact Berra seems to play better in a 3, taking control of the defence. Our problems are at the other side of the pitch Possibly as we have 3 centre halves on the pitch.. I don't like it.. never have.. in some scenarios it's ok but not every week. No one played 3-5-2 until conte did at Chelsea.. Will go back out of fashion soon imo 4-3-3 much better Edited July 21, 2018 by kingantti1874 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Kintner Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Enzo Chiefo said: 442 is absolutely the best formation imo Totally agree. That’s why none of Man City Man Utd Liverpool Chelsea Tottenham Arsenal Celtic Rangers Aberdeen Real Madrid Barcelona Bayern Munich etc play 4-4-2. Edited July 21, 2018 by Frank1874 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudi must stay Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 4 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said: Possibly as we have 3 centre halves on the pitch.. I don't like it.. never have.. in some scenarios it's ok but not every week. No one played 3-5-2 until conte did at Chelsea.. Will go back out of fashion soon imo 4-3-3 much better Played right its a great attacking formation. I really like that we're trying it, hopefully we stick with it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudi must stay Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 6 minutes ago, Frank1874 said: Totally agree. That’s why none of Man City Man Utd Liverpool Chelsea Tottenham Arsenal Celtic Rangers Aberdeen Real Madrid Barcelona Bayern Munich etc play 4-4-2. The 3-5-2 is definatly where it's going at the moment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enzo Chiefo Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Frank1874 said: Totally agree. That’s why none of Man City Man Utd Liverpool Chelsea Tottenham Arsenal Celtic Rangers Aberdeen Real Madrid Barcelona Bayern Munich etc play 4-4-2. You need good players to play other formations. With our bog standard average players we should be playing 4-4-2 and keep it simple. But you know, what we really need is a manager that will encourage off the ball movement, high tempo passing and a desire to press the opposition high up the park. The early days of George Burley's reign really do seem light years away.... Edited July 21, 2018 by Enzo Chiefo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingantti1874 Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 3 minutes ago, rudi must stay said: Played right its a great attacking formation. I really like that we're trying it, hopefully we stick with it You need special players in the wing back role for it to work. I don't think we have them.. also leaves you vulnerable to a ball down the channel. 3-5-2 has been fashionable before - it not a new formation.. but like all systems it can be countered .. teams have worked it out and it'll become less popular in a year or 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amadjambo Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 13 minutes ago, Frank1874 said: Totally agree. That’s why none of Man City Man Utd Liverpool Chelsea Tottenham Arsenal Celtic Rangers Aberdeen Real Madrid Barcelona Bayern Munich etc play 4-4-2. The World Cup Winners 2018 did though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 24 minutes ago, rudi must stay said: I think it could work. Our back 3 are very solid, infact Berra seems to play better in a 3, taking control of the defence. Our problems are at the other side of the pitch I agree. Movement up front today was poor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Kintner Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 13 minutes ago, rudi must stay said: The 3-5-2 is definatly where it's going at the moment Yeah but I’m not a fan of it. I like a flat back four. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debut 4 Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 Total imbalance, imo. On the left we had a winger devoid of a defensive brain and unable to adjust. On the right we have a limited full back who doesn't have it in his armoury to drive at people and rarely overlaps. It's not going to happen at every move but we seem to struggle to release our wing backs in good positions. It's all in front of the opposition and rarely do we have them turning and concerned. That suggests we still don't have the central midfield good enough to play this formation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amadjambo Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 1 minute ago, WeeChuck'sHeed said: I agree. Movement up front today was poor. We never play with any width in attack when we play a 3. Compare that to when we play a 4, or when we switched today. Full back and winger going forward, overlapping on the wing, and dangerous balls going into the box. We don’t have good enough players to make a 3-5-2 work IMO, and I am struggling to think of many good performances from a Hearts team playing a 3 at the back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gedster Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Mort said: The formation hangs Berra out to dry and doesn’t suit him one bit. Caught out with this last season too. 4 at the back please! Dreadful today and brutal in parts at Cove. Default position is to smash a diagonal up the pitch or slice it for a throw in. No composure in that position and too slow and cumbersome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Kintner Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 6 minutes ago, amadjambo said: The World Cup Winners 2018 did though. The only team playing 4-4-2 considtently I can think of were Sweden. France played 4-3-3/ 4-2-3-1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudi must stay Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 7 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said: You need special players in the wing back role for it to work. I don't think we have them.. also leaves you vulnerable to a ball down the channel. 3-5-2 has been fashionable before - it not a new formation.. but like all systems it can be countered .. teams have worked it out and it'll become less popular in a year or 2. Ye the problems with it IMO is you can be a bit predictable. But the better the players the better it works. I think it is here to stay because you don't really have full backs anymore, they are wingbacks more comfortable further forward Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidjamesbottle Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 2 minutes ago, rudi must stay said: Ye the problems with it IMO is you can be a bit predictable. But the better the players the better it works. I think it is here to stay because you don't really have full backs anymore, they are wingbacks more comfortable further forward nothing wrong with the formation or the manager if the players cant do the simple things right it wont work ie Mulrany cant cross it ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Turn Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 13 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said: Possibly as we have 3 centre halves on the pitch.. I don't like it.. never have.. in some scenarios it's ok but not every week. No one played 3-5-2 until conte did at Chelsea.. Will go back out of fashion soon imo 4-3-3 much better Capello winning Serie A with Roma in 2000/01 was its come back. Bielsa been playing 3-3-1-3 for years but he nicked that from Cruyff at Barca. Walter Mazzarri played 3-4-3 at Napoli for years. Allegri 3-5-2 at Juve, Guardiola 3-4-3 at Barca and started last season at City playing 3-5-2. The only reason it's come back to these shores is because British football is miles behind the rest of Europe tactically and it's takes foreign managers to introduce new innovations. No British coach has innovated football since Herbert Chapman or Vic Buckingham. Everyone who plays a 4 man defence, they only play it with one striker. 4-4-2 is old fashioned and outdated because it's too flat. 3 at the back allows you to play with two strikers and to have 3 central midfielders, therefore it's a much more attacking formation IF played correctly. It's probably the way forward in the future. I hope Levein doesn't bin it and keeps persevering with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudi must stay Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 3 minutes ago, sidjamesbottle said: nothing wrong with the formation or the manager if the players cant do the simple things right it wont work ie Mulrany cant cross it ! Ye, your right. Its a must in a 3-5-2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taffin Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 4-3-1-2 please. We don't have the wide players for 442 nor the wing backs for 352. Bobby Smith Souttar Berra Garuccio Edwards Djoum Bozanic Naismith Uche* Lafferty (*Vanececk in time) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muirhead Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 The success of 3-5-2 is all down to your wing backs. We don’t have anyone available at the moment who can play wing back. Jake Mulraney switched off defensively twice today which allowed their header in the 1st half and their goal in the 2nd. I was always led to believe you pick the system that suit your squad of players. We either need to sign wing backs quickly or change the system that said the formation was only one of a list of things wrong today. Crosses were going into the box and we only had 2 people in the box - not enough. Our midfield wanted an age on the ball and nobody showed any desire/urgency/bravery/responsibility. We still have a worrying lack of creativity in the final third and that is the one part of the squad that hasn’t been addressed unless Naismith is going to step up or a rocket is placed up Olly Lee’s anus. Milinkovic hasn’t been replaced Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerbandit Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 1 hour ago, rudi must stay said: 1 hour ago, Cruyff Turn said: Capello winning Serie A with Roma in 2000/01 was its come back. Bielsa been playing 3-3-1-3 for years but he nicked that from Cruyff at Barca. Walter Mazzarri played 3-4-3 at Napoli for years. Allegri 3-5-2 at Juve, Guardiola 3-4-3 at Barca and started last season at City playing 3-5-2. The only reason it's come back to these shores is because British football is miles behind the rest of Europe tactically and it's takes foreign managers to introduce new innovations. No British coach has innovated football since Herbert Chapman or Vic Buckingham. Everyone who plays a 4 man defence, they only play it with one striker. 4-4-2 is old fashioned and outdated because it's too flat. 3 at the back allows you to play with two strikers and to have 3 central midfielders, therefore it's a much more attacking formation IF played correctly. It's probably the way forward in the future. I hope Levein doesn't bin it and keeps persevering with it. The 3-5-2 is definatly where it's going at the moment 3 hours ago, tartofmidlothian said: Did we go 4-4-2 at the end or did Haring and Smith just swap? It was hard to tell. Its not going anywhere at the moment. Only Chelsea of the top clubs in the English premier play 352. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Turn Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 5 minutes ago, beerbandit said: Its not going anywhere at the moment. Only Chelsea of the top clubs in the English premier play 352. They won't this season. their new coach Sarri plays 4-3-3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busby1985 Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 352 is the preferred formation. We’ve tried to play that formation since we came back up to the Premier League, at various stages it’s worked, other stages it has failed miserably. What I can’t get my head round is how it has taken as many transfer windows to identify and bring in players to suit that formation. For 352 to work, your front 2 have to be the hardest working players on the park, them stretching the defence leaves the space for wing backs to exploit and get in behind. I don’t understand the thinking behind bringing Naismith back, yes he’ll be great for the young lads, but for me, he hasn’t done anything of note for us and doesn’t bring enough away from home. His legs are gone and his style doesn’t suit 352. Lafferty gets frustrated and drops deep and that makes it so easy for defenders to play against 352. We have 0, and I mean 0 decent options for wing back. Mulraney was released by caley thistle for a reason, he’s not good enough. Michael Smith is hard working but he isn’t a wing back. How has it taken us 4 transfer windows, 20 odd plus players in, maybe even more, to solve that problem when we have set out to play 352 for the past three seasons. Berra isn’t a footballing centre back, he doesn’t look comfortable on the ball and goes long far to often cause he’s doesnt want the ball at his feet. When Berra goes long it cuts out Lee and the rest of the midfield and they become redundant. The same problems have plagued us for the past 3 seasons and all the warning signs are there again for this “rebuild” not solving the problems. How can we have brought in 12 players and not one of them be wing back, crazy. What frustrates me the most is we have the players. We have enough decent players to be getting more out them. 352 is the worst formation for the players we have and it’s either (Levein has previous) the manager being stubborn sticking to 352 or, even more worrying, he doesn’t see it’s not working. For me we have the players to play a 4231 or a 4321, like we did more often than not in the championship. When the manager has to turn to youth on the bench today to change a game when two of the players he’s brought in are on the bench, that sets alarm bells off in my head. Edwards must be stinking, again something when probaly all ready knew considering he wasn’t wanted by relegated Partick. This tinkering/money ball set up is awful and is going to continue to result in disjointed performances where nobody really looks like they know what they are doing. Serious question, when did we last name the same starting 11? Now go through the top 4 in our league and see if you can name the starting 11 of them. It’s no coincidence that we look disjointed compared to the teams we are chasing, we don’t know who our best players are. Shambles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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