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Shaggy2

Law 12 - Do you reconsider your view on the penalty?

Do you think Eggert deliberately handled the ball at Fir Park?  

1 member has voted

  1. 1. Do you think Eggert deliberately handled the ball at Fir Park?

    • Handball was deliberate = penalty correctly awarded.
      7
    • Handball was not deliberate = penalty wrongly awarded.
      33


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Shaggy2

A lot of people have given their opinion on the penalty on here and it seems that, in the main people seem to think that, while harsh it was a penalty, mainly because Jonsson never complained.

 

Please read Law 12 and then vote on the poll. Please do not let "opinion" come into it, just abide by the laws of the game. Stuart Dougal should have.

 

http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish_football.cfm?curpageid=674

 

For the record my "opinion" is that hands in an unnatural position should be penalised but the law says handball MUST be deliberate which means (as usual) my opinion means feck all and last night's decision was 100% WRONG!!!

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rudi

No seen it, but by the sounds of it had it happened at the other end and not give,Feck me it would have been all out war against the SFA" a blatant penalty,The are all out to get us" kinda pash.

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Del1812

Have seen it and IMO I think it was a penalty. I was not 100% sure on what the rule was but having seen it I will too say that under the letter of the law that the penalty should never have been given.

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Shaggy2
No seen it, but by the sounds of it had it happened at the other end and not give,Feck me it would have been all out war against the SFA" a blatant penalty,The are all out to get us" kinda pash.

 

Not from me. I swear I'd be on here defending the ref!!!

 

Don't get me wrong, you probably heard me screaming at Kenny Clark on Saturday when it happened to Boozy on the edge of Hibs' box but I knew he'd made the correct call by NOT awarding Hearts a free kick.

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Only a Game

When you challenge for a ball and put your hands up or out as part of that challenge, and the ball strikes your hand, that is deliberate hand ball IMO.

 

Havent seen it on TV but I am told that is what he did so it was a penalty IMO.

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dingus
A lot of people have given their opinion on the penalty on here and it seems that, in the main people seem to think that, while harsh it was a penalty, mainly because Jonsson never complained.

 

Please read Law 12 and then vote on the poll. Please do not let "opinion" come into it, just abide by the laws of the game. Stuart Dougal should have.

 

http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish_football.cfm?curpageid=674

 

For the record my "opinion" is that hands in an unnatural position should be penalised but the law says handball MUST be deliberate which means (as usual) my opinion means feck all and last night's decision was 100% WRONG!!!

 

That English ref Graeme Poll was on MOTD the other week saying penalties should be awarded when the ball hits a hand or arm in what he considered an unnatural position. I know he's a dick, but is that correct or is that just his interpretation of the law. Or is thre wording on the SFA site wrong?

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rudi
Not from me. I swear I'd be on here defending the ref!!!

 

Don't get me wrong, you probably heard me screaming at Kenny Clark on Saturday when it happened to Boozy on the edge of Hibs' box but I knew he'd made the correct call by NOT awarding Hearts a free kick.

 

Yep and tasted the yorkie.

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Shaggy2
That English ref Graeme Poll was on MOTD the other week saying penalties should be awarded when the ball hits a hand or arm in what he considered an unnatural position. I know he's a dick, but is that correct or is that just his interpretation of the law. Or is thre wording on the SFA site wrong?

 

It's his own interpretation which I happen to agree with (I've passed my refereeing exam too) but the law says it wasn't a penalty and no matter how much we want to give them, especially when the ball is flying towards the top corner, the law says no.

 

Even though I think my opinion regarding the unnatural positioning of the hands is correct I can understand why the law says different. You try sliding in to block a shot with your arms by your side and see how you get on. In fact you could argue Eggert's hands were (for the purposes of balance) in a NATURAL position given what he was trying to do.

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Fine Scottish Wine

For me it was a penalty, his arms were way too high for the ref not to give it.

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DETTY29

I suppose it's whats in the rules, and what would you would deem fair and reasonable.

 

Most of us would be screaming abuse if, in similar circumstances, we weren't given it. Irrespective of the rules - have to say penalty.

 

Shaggy2, doesn't make your life easy, does it?

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rudi

" it's a penalty" we have a dream.

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colinmaroon

Did Jonsson deliberately try to "handle" the ball?

 

Probably not!!!

 

Did he make himself "bigger" by extending his arms?

 

Yes he did!!!

 

If you stick you arms up in the air, or out from your side to make it more difficult for the ball to get past you, then that is a delberate act - if you like putting your hands/arms in harms way!

 

Much as I hate it, it was a penalty!!!

 

 

 

.............

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Shaggy2
I suppose it's whats in the rules, and what would you would deem fair and reasonable.

 

Most of us would be screaming abuse if, in similar circumstances, we weren't given it. Irrespective of the rules - have to say penalty.

 

Shaggy2, doesn't make your life easy, does it?

 

No it doesn't. Players and pundits should have to sit the refereeing exam before getting a job in football and then the pundits could at least explain to the masses why decisions were made. The amount of pundits that don't know the laws is frightening and players are the same. Christ, the reffing exam is a scoosh. I attended 4 x 6 hour classes and got 95%. Some things did surprise me but mostly it's a doddle.

 

It's true to say Stuart Dougal would have been (wrongly) crucified for not giving a penalty last night but he'd have been correct and could have gone on whistleblower to explain. I'd like to see him go on whistleblower to explain what he thought was deliberate about last night's handball.

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Shaggy2
Did Jonsson deliberately try to "handle" the ball?

 

Probably not!!!

 

Did he make himself "bigger" by extending his arms?

 

Yes he did!!!

 

If you stick you arms up in the air, or out from your side to make it more difficult for the ball to get past you, then that is a delberate act - if you like putting your hands/arms in harms way!

 

Much as I hate it, it was a penalty!!!

 

 

 

.............

 

Fair point but it's not something you consciously think about when making a challenge. Not deliberate = no handball. There is no grey area here.

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Magic Numbers

Maybe one of our resident experts can enlighten me on this one:

 

Elliot sent off for deliberate handball

Jonsson. Did not get sent off, was he booked for this incident?

 

What is the ruling on this?

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Fine Scottish Wine
Fair point but it's not something you consciously think about when making a challenge. Not deliberate = no handball. There is no grey area here.

How do you prove a raised arm is not deliberate though, the fact is he deliberately put himself into the position he was in (sliding in fast with arms raised) while an opposition player was shooting from about 7 to 8 yards away, the ref does not have an option.

I would be gutted if Hearts had not got a penalty in a similar situation.

 

I don't blame Jonsson for it he was trying to stop a goal, just unfortunate the ball hit his arm while in the position he was in.

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Shaggy2
How do you prove a raised arm is not deliberate though, the fact is he deliberately put himself into the position he was in (sliding in fast with arms raised) while an opposition player was shooting from about 7 to 8 yards away, the ref does not have an option.

I would be gutted if Hearts had not got a penalty in a similar situation.

 

I don't blame Jonsson for it he was trying to stop a goal, just unfortunate the ball hit his arm while in the position he was in.

 

Aha, you've got me there. I suppoe I have to concede opinion has to come in here. I think it comes down to your comment about sliding in fast. I'm sure you've played football so you realise from a balance point of view doing anything other that what Eggert did would be extremely difficult from his starting position. I don't know if you can see from TV pics but I'd imagine Eggert's eyes were probably shut and his face turned away. It wasn't as if he spread himself like Niemi used to be so good at.

 

Good argument but still 100% convinced he didn't mean to handle, therefore no penalty as per the law!

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Sharpie

I don't and have not in relation to this incident seen the phrase, ball played man as opposed to man played ball. This differentiating between a player deliberately playing the ball as opposed to the ball striking the man without intent by the player.

 

I can see in this incident where there is space for discussion, I have only seen the replay once on Sky, under the circumstances, and I suppose with some bias on my part I would have used my discretion and allowed play to proceed without penalty.

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