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Victorian

Joanna Cherry made the factually correct observation that the Court of Session today was a higher court than the English High Court decision because the English hearing was a first instance one,   while the Court of Session was acting as the appeal court above the previous hearing in Edinburgh.   

 

Regarding the stark difference between the two rulings... none of the TV news coverage has covered ground regarding the fact that these two rulings have been derived from two different legal systems.     There has also been no thought towards what material differences there were between the submissions to the courts.     To attempt to understand why these courts have ruled differently,   surely it would be necessary to understand what was submitted to the courts by the legal teams.

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Zlatanable
8 minutes ago, Victorian said:

Joanna Cherry made the factually correct observation that the Court of Session today was a higher court than the English High Court decision because the English hearing was a first instance one,   while the Court of Session was acting as the appeal court above the previous hearing in Edinburgh.   

 

Regarding the stark difference between the two rulings... none of the TV news coverage has covered ground regarding the fact that these two rulings have been derived from two different legal systems.     There has also been no thought towards what material differences there were between the submissions to the courts.     To attempt to understand why these courts have ruled differently,   surely it would be necessary to understand what was submitted to the courts by the legal teams.

Did you see the Andrew Neil Show, he was mentioning things like this. 

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Victorian

People like Andrea Leadsom are the type of so-called politicians who would absolutely find no difficulty in accepting and working within an actual dictatorship.      She's already given the game away before regarding that.     She's been quite clear and overt in the past that nobody but the government should have any say in Brexit,    as well as being entirely at ease with withholding important information.

 

"It's between us and the EU" was a very brief comment,   but it said an awful lot more about her mindset.     You can add the likes of Morgan,  Zahawi,  Villiers,  Cleverly,  Raab,  Kwarteng,  Truss and McVey to that particular type of Tory scumbag.     The type of people who would try to justify actual dictatorship without a second thought.

Edited by Victorian

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Victorian
1 minute ago, Zlatanable said:

Did you see the Andrew Neil Show, he was mentioning things like this. 

 

No I only saw the evening news on BBC,  ITV and C4.    

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Mikey1874

Yellowhammer published with some redactions. 

 

 

Edited by Mikey1874

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Mikey1874

And I thought this would be a quiet few weeks. 

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Mikey1874
1 minute ago, gjcc said:

Published...With a redaction. 

 

What a redaction is

 

 

IMG_20190911_200610.jpg

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Mikey1874
Edited by Mikey1874

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Victorian

It only takes a glance to see that the government is acting directly against the national interest and it's solemn prime directive of protecting the population.

 

They're getting deeper and deeper into a very serious hole.

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Mikey1874
Just now, Victorian said:

It only takes a glance to see that the government is acting directly against the national interest and it's solemn prime directive of protecting the population.

 

They're getting deeper and deeper into a very serious hole.

 

They should be debating this in Parliament. 

 

Might be back this week. 

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Victorian
Just now, Mikey1874 said:

 

They should be debating this in Parliament. 

 

Might be back this week. 

 

Q1.    Why was it necessary to pass a new act of parliament to force this information out?

 

Q2.    Why is the government pursuing a strategy that could cause many of the estimated effects detailed in the document?    Especially since there is every opportunity to completely eliminate the risks.

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redjambo
2 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

They should be debating this in Parliament. 

 

Might be back this week. 

 

It won't be though. It's up to Boris to recall Parliament, until the Supreme Court decides that the prorogation is invalid (if it does indeed declare that), and there's not a ghost of a chance of him doing so.

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Victorian
Just now, Mikey1874 said:

This has been released due to a vote in Parliament on Monday.

 

That vote also demanded release of contacts with advisors on closing Parliament. Sky News saying some documents have been released but not sure what. 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-49642336/operation-yellowhammer-government-loses-commons-vote

 

Tbf,    the communications bit is the bit that could send some people off to find the best lawyer they can afford.

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The Mighty Thor
3 minutes ago, redjambo said:

The government is refusing to publish details of communications between No 10 aides about Parliament's suspension, despite MPs voting for their release.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49670123

Whatever have they got  to hide?

 

:interehjrling:

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Victorian

Hiding behind data protection and employment law.     Some valid logic but this could be forced out in court,    especially since it feeds into the ongoing prorogation hearings.    

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indianajones

If they don't put this back to the people it's an absolute farce. 

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Mikey1874

Sunday Times journalist who got the leak 2 weeks ago is saying its the same document with a new title. 

 

What the government at the time said was out of date. Another lie. 

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Mikey1874

It's an interesting question now. Boris said No Deal is okay. Supported too by many people, nearly a majority in polls. What will the public think now? 

 

What will they think of Boris?

 

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The Mighty Thor
3 minutes ago, Victorian said:

Hiding behind data protection and employment law.     Some valid logic but this could be forced out in court,    especially since it feeds into the ongoing prorogation hearings.    

Now that would be a great shout. 

Forced to hand over the documents to the supreme court. 

 

Shitehawks the ****ing lot of them. 

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redjambo
Just now, Mikey1874 said:

It's an interesting question now. Boris said No Deal is okay. Supported too by many people, nearly a majority in polls. What will the public think now? 

 

What will they think of Boris?

 

 

I don't think people's minds will be changing, even with the redacted publication of Yellowhammer. We all live in our echo chambers now, sadly. It would take something of immense proportions to turn voters away from Leave, in a similar way that it would take something of immense proportions to turn voters away from Trump in the US.

 

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Victorian
1 minute ago, Mikey1874 said:

It's an interesting question now. Boris said No Deal is okay. Supported too by many people, nearly a majority in polls. What will the public think now? 

 

What will they think of Boris?

 

 

They'll give it 2 seconds of serious thought and decide it's all going to be ok... and if it isn't it will be someone else's fault.    EU.   Corbyn.   Anna Soubry.   Bercow.

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Costanza
29 minutes ago, Victorian said:

It only takes a glance to see that the government is acting directly against the national interest and it's solemn prime directive of protecting the population.

 

They're getting deeper and deeper into a very serious hole.

Can't think why they wouldn't be acting in the national interest...

 

 

https://bylinetimes.com/2019/09/11/brexit-disaster-capitalism-8-billion-bet-on-no-deal-crash-out-by-boris-johnsons-leave-backers/

 

 

 

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Victorian
3 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Now that would be a great shout. 

Forced to hand over the documents to the supreme court. 

 

Shitehawks the ****ing lot of them. 

 

Could be a cute move actually.    Government protects itself from being sued by advisors for breaching employment law,  etc... knowing it will be forced out in court anyway.

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Mikey1874
25 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

It won't be though. It's up to Boris to recall Parliament, until the Supreme Court decides that the prorogation is invalid (if it does indeed declare that), and there's not a ghost of a chance of him doing so.

 

It does seem unclear.

 

But another view is Parliament effectively is still in session after court decision and the Speaker can do it. 

 

But because Court of Session withheld directing what was to happen in deference to Supreme Court hearing it might be no one will do anything. 

 

 

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redjambo
1 minute ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

It does seem unclear.

 

But another view is Parliament effectively is still in session after court decision and the Speaker can do it. 

 

But because Court of Session withheld directing what was to happen in deference to Supreme Court hearing it might be no one will do anything. 

 

 

Yup, I think the last point is the nub.

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Victorian

Government recalling parliament = a signed confession that prorogation was done for a political reason.    Not happening.     Supreme Court will rule on legality and may or may not rule regarding recall.     

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Mikey1874
32 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

Sunday Times journalist who got the leak 2 weeks ago is saying its the same document with a new title. 

 

What the government at the time said was out of date. Another lie. 

 

 

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Cade

15. Facing EU tariffs makes petrol exports to the EU uncompetitive. Industry had plans to mitigate the impact on refinery margins and profitability but UK Government policy to set petrol import tariffs at 0% inadvertently undermines these plans.

This leads to significant financial losses and announcement of two refinery closures (and transition to import terminals) and direct job losses (about 2000).

Resulting strike action at refineries would lead to disruptions to fuel availability for 1-2 weeks in the regions directly supplied by the refineries.

 

In other words: the UK oil industry is fecked.

Edited by Cade

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redjambo
5 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

 

 

Do you know if the copy leaked to the Sunday Times was redacted or not? Surely the Government wouldn't have redacted a document that had already essentially been leaked. If they did do so, we would know what they had redacted.

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Mikey1874

Should be possible to post the whole document in pics.

 

Meantime.

 

 

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Victorian
1 minute ago, Cade said:

15. Facing EU tariffs makes petrol exports to the EU uncompetitive. Industry had plans to mitigate the impact on refinery margins and profitability but UK Government policy to set petrol import tariffs at 0% inadvertently undermines these plans.

This leads to significant financial losses and announcement of two refinery closures (and transition to import terminals) and direct job losses (about 2000).

Resulting strike action at refineries would lead to disruptions to fuel availability for 1-2 weeks in the regions directly supplied by the refineries.

 

:davebp:

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Mikey1874
1 minute ago, redjambo said:

 

Do you know if the copy leaked to the Sunday Times was redacted or not? Surely the Government wouldn't have redacted a document that had already essentially been leaked. If they did do so, we would know what they had redacted.

 

 

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Costanza
Just now, Cade said:

15. Facing EU tariffs makes petrol exports to the EU uncompetitive. Industry had plans to mitigate the impact on refinery margins and profitability but UK Government policy to set petrol import tariffs at 0% inadvertently undermines these plans.

This leads to significant financial losses and announcement of two refinery closures (and transition to import terminals) and direct job losses (about 2000).

Resulting strike action at refineries would lead to disruptions to fuel availability for 1-2 weeks in the regions directly supplied by the refineries.

Just read that here as well.

The journalist who broke the story says the version she saw was Base scenario but the government now phrasing it as "reasonable worst case".

 

 

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redjambo
Just now, Mikey1874 said:

 

 

 

How could they be so stupid? And how could they be so stupid to think that we are all so stupid?

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Victorian

Just "bumps in the road" but.     :rofl:

 

 

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The Mighty Thor
19 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

:davebp:

Hopefully the job losses will be in leave voting constituencies, just so they get that Brexit dividend first hand. 

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Governor Tarkin
1 minute ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Hopefully the job losses will be in leave voting constituencies, just so they get that Brexit dividend first hand. 

 

Petty, but fair.

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Victorian
2 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Hopefully the job losses will be in leave voting constituencies, just so they get that Brexit dividend first hand. 

 

If there was no deal and if these kind of predictions do occur,   undoubtedly there will be many,  many leavers and latter day 'we need to get this done now like... so it's just done... and finished like... now-ers' who would be directly affected.     But a lot of them will be quite happy to be convinced it's all the fault of the EU,  etc.      Anything is better than facing up to the lies they were sold.

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Mikey1874
Just now, Victorian said:

 

If there was no deal and if these kind of predictions do occur,   undoubtedly there will be many,  many leavers and latter day 'we need to get this done now like... so it's just done... and finished like... now-ers' who would be directly affected.     But a lot of them will be quite happy to be convinced it's all the fault of the EU,  etc.      Anything is better than facing up to the lies they were sold.

 

They'll turn against the Government quickly. 

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Victorian
Just now, Mikey1874 said:

 

They'll turn against the Government quickly. 

 

Some will.   Some will find a way to blame something else.    Never under-estimate the need in people to believe they were still right.

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Lee_Mellon
10 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Petty, but fair.

Fair? I don’t think Remain voters in those constituencies would necessarily agree. Just collateral damage?

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Victorian

I don't actively wish any ill effects on anybody.     Much more keen to see how this information is explained by the government and what action they'll face in the event of it happening.

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Gashauskis9

Project fear though eh?

 

This government is a ****ing shambles.  Preying on the vulnerable, a large proportion of whom voted to leave and will suffer the consequences more than others.  

Edited by Gashauskis9

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Victorian

Let's horse up the basic rate tax band to £80k and put Universal Credit up by £1.50.      That'll sort it.

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Zlatanable
23 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Petty, but fair.

 

What's Dantooine ever done to you like?

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