MackaysCentreSpot Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 Tin Hat On. Why do those who have not renewed think they have the right to tell those who have that they are this that and the other for doing so. I do not see those who have renewed telling those who have not that they are this, that and the other for not doing so. It is about choice is it not and no one has to justify to anyone else why they did or why they did not renew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Juan Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 I take my hat off to anyone that has renewed....because the vast majority of the football on show last season was dreadful and season tickets arent cheap. Fair play imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Bapswent Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 Tin Hat On. Why do those who have not renewed think they have the right to tell those who have that they are this that and the other for doing so. I do not see those who have renewed telling those who have not that they are this, that and the other for not doing so. It is about choice is it not and no one has to justify to anyone else why they did or why they did not renew. Because they have to also convince themselves that they are doing the right thing by not renewing. By saying it out loud, seems to make it more right. Its the same with religion. If you can convince others its true, you look less foolish believing it yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmaroon Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 Because they have to also convince themselves that they are doing the right thing by not renewing. By saying it out loud, seems to make it more right. Its the same with religion. If you can convince others its true, you look less foolish believing it yourself. Another one of your totally subjective opinions based on your own prejudiced preconceptions, and as with much you say, 100 miles from the truth!!! ............... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor.Arturo Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 Because they have to also convince themselves that they are doing the right thing by not renewing. By saying it out loud, seems to make it more right. Its the same with religion. If you can convince others its true, you look less foolish believing it yourself. Well said Dr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Bapswent Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 Another one of your totally subjective opinions based on your own prejudiced preconceptions, and as with much you say, 100 miles from the truth!!! ............... Prove it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shotgun-Boogie Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 I suppose for many renewing it is the natural and somehat easy option (i.e. just keep doing what we do - support Hearts unconditionally, buy season ticket, attend games, hope and pray things get better). To consider any alternative for many is too hard to do. Its this unconditional love of "The Club" that I find curious. Fortune favours the brave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 Tin Hat On. Why do those who have not renewed think they have the right to tell those who have that they are this that and the other for doing so. I do not see those who have renewed telling those who have not that they are this, that and the other for not doing so. It is about choice is it not and no one has to justify to anyone else why they did or why they did not renew. I dont think you can have read many season ticket threads over the last 6 weeks mate JKB is full of non-renewers arguing the toss about what renewing does and what message it sends, and renewers have just as vociferously been arguing the toss that non-renewers are killing the club and are not true supporters So in essence the thrust of your post is a little misinformed Your last sentence is true about choice but the second part of it doesnt really encourage debate. It sounds as if you want any topic on JKB re season tickets to be restricted to a poll of who has bought and who hasnt without any discussion as to why and what the consquences for the club might be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Sausage Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 Prove it. Disprove it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Kurtz Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 The acid test will be if we sell either Driver,Berra or Eggert. We sold our top scorer last season and this cost us a top six place, We lost out on mcgee but in business you have a MFP ...most favoured position when conducting negotiations,but you must also have a FBP...fall back position which needs to be well constructed and quickly viable. Do we have one,time will tell I personally think the very poor uptake on STs is a decisive factor and non renewal is the only power we as fans have at our disposal . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest S.U.S.S. Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 Tin Hat On. Why do those who have not renewed think they have the right to tell those who have that they are this that and the other for doing so. I do not see those who have renewed telling those who have not that they are this, that and the other for not doing so. It is about choice is it not and no one has to justify to anyone else why they did or why they did not renew. I agree that its personal choice and therefore no abuse should be thrown but, i have read a few "your not a real fan if you have not renewed" posts. So it does flow both ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Bapswent Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 Disprove it. You really think I need to disprove that God exists? Ok. We finished in the bottom 6, and Hibs finished top 6. How about that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Sausage Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 You really think I need to disprove that God exists? Ok. We finished in the bottom 6, and Hibs finished top 6. How about that? You really think I need to prove that God exists? Ok. Hibs have gone 107 years with winning the cup. Touche. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Bapswent Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 You really think I need to prove that God exists? Ok. Hibs have gone 107 years with winning the cup. Touche. Ha Ha Very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Kidd Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 You really think I need to disprove that God exists? Ok. We finished in the bottom 6, and Hibs finished top 6. How about that? Genius. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
londonjambo Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 I renewed because I'm a Hearts fan not long now before you lose your seats, pride before a fall its already cost some people ?30 no symphony for part time glory hunters (humm your own tune) and their pathetic excuses for supposedly being Hearts supporters flaking door handles the lot of you, apart from that student guy. MCS Quoted above two examples from other threads of the peer pressure I was talking about on another thread (notwithstanding the use of the word symphony instead of sympathy). I agree that neither side is going to convince the other but I am happy with my decision not to renew YET. GC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reiver Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 Disprove it. The burden of proof is on the person making the extraordinary claims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shotgun-Boogie Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 Robbo = god. Robbo exists. end of story really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Bapswent Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 Disprove it. Ok, I'll have another go. I can prove Buck Rogers exists. Look, I even have a photo of him Can you show me a photo of God? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pants Shaton Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 Tin Hat On. Why do those who have not renewed think they have the right to tell those who have that they are this that and the other for doing so. I do not see those who have renewed telling those who have not that they are this, that and the other for not doing so. It is about choice is it not and no one has to justify to anyone else why they did or why they did not renew. There are plenty people, on numerous threads, suggesting they are better supporters than those of us choosing not to renew. The argument goes that because ST sales have dropped back to pre-Burley levels that we represent the '4500' glory hunters. Funnily enough most people on here who have chosen not to renew (as it is the only effective method of exerting pressure on the owner) have been season ticket holders through relegation battles and the Mclean era - but are not willing to accept another season of self-inflicted embarrassment. Incidentally, it's not like religion because I haven't tried to inculcate defenceless children with my flawed world-view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnkey1874 Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 Prove it. "Its the same with religion. If you can convince others its true, you look less foolish believing it yourself." Prove that all those who have a religion try and convince others that it is true, in order to make themselves look better Hence your opinion is only subjective, not authoritative Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Sausage Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 The burden of proof is on the person making the extraordinary claims. Exactly. Why claim God doesn't exist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pants Shaton Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 The burden of proof is on the person making the extraordinary claims. 1. God is that entity than which nothing can be greater. 2. The concept of God exists in human understanding. 3. God exists in one's mind but not in reality. 4. The concept of God's existence is understood in one's mind. 5. If God existed in reality, it would be a greater thing than God's existence in the mind. 6. The final step to God's existence is that God in reality must exist. How's that for a water-tight argument! (and probably the best they have) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Bapswent Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 Its the same with religion. If you can convince others its true, you look less foolish believing it yourself. Prove that all those who have a religion try and convince others that it is true Hence your opinion is only subjective, not authoritative I dont believe I said otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnkey1874 Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 Ok, I'll have another go. I can prove Buck Rogers exists. Look, I even have a photo of him Can you show me a photo of God? So, are you really so naive that you "believe" that only things that can be photographed really exist! Do you really want to go down THAT road Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Bapswent Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 So, are you really so naive that you "believe" that only things that can be photographed really exist! Do you really want to go down THAT road Buck Rogers is really in that photo. Can you show me a photo of god? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MackaysCentreSpot Posted June 5, 2008 Author Share Posted June 5, 2008 Looking at my OP again and I am big enough to admit it, I should have phrased it differently as It was not suppose to be a 'I am a better fan than you' thread but looking at it, it certainly could be perceived that way. What it should have said was: Tin Hat On. Why do those who have not renewed think they have the right to tell those who have that they are this that and the other for doing so. Likewise. Why do those who have renewed think they have the right to tell those who have not that they are this, that and the other for not doing so. It is about choice is it not and no one has to justify to anyone else why they did or why they did not renew. Apologies for any offence caused. P.S Lets not turn this thread into a religious debate guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnkey1874 Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 fair enough m8, I also renewed and changed my seat Why, because I have faith that we will turn around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pants Shaton Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 Looking at my OP again and I am big enough to admit it, I should have phrased it differently as It was not suppose to be a 'I am a better fan than you' thread but looking at it, it certainly could be perceived that way. What it should have said was: Tin Hat On. Why do those who have not renewed think they have the right to tell those who have that they are this that and the other for doing so. Likewise. Why do those who have renewed think they have the right to tell those who have not that they are this, that and the other for not doing so. It is about choice is it not and no one has to justify to anyone else why they did or why they did not renew. Apologies for any offence caused. P.S Lets not turn this thread into a religious debate guys. What you have now posted is a completely fair summary which no one can argue with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leginten Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 There are plenty people, on numerous threads, suggesting they are better supporters than those of us choosing not to renew. Indeed there are. The OP's claim is false. Those who have dared to take the step of not renewing have been labelled gloryhunters, Johnny-come-latelys, "poison ivy", part-timers and all sorts of other nonsense by some of the "better fan than you" heroes. In fact, I've seen a lot more posts like that than I have posts berating people for renewing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pants Shaton Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 Buck Rogers is really in that photo. Can you show me a photo of god? No but I've got a great cartoon of the prophet Muhammad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Bapswent Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 Looking at my OP again and I am big enough to admit it, I should have phrased it differently as It was not suppose to be a 'I am a better fan than you' thread but looking at it, it certainly could be perceived that way. What it should have said was: Tin Hat On. Why do those who have not renewed think they have the right to tell those who have that they are this that and the other for doing so. Likewise. Why do those who have renewed think they have the right to tell those who have not that they are this, that and the other for not doing so. It is about choice is it not and no one has to justify to anyone else why they did or why they did not renew. Apologies for any offence caused. P.S Lets not turn this thread into a religious debate guys. Yes, it has gone off topic, I agree. But my first post is still valid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Dover Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 It wont do people any harm to take a step back and 're-examine' their point of view though ? If a pro or Anti ST supporter puts forward a convincing case for their stance then I think we may all 'benefit' in some way..............knowledge is power after all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MackaysCentreSpot Posted June 5, 2008 Author Share Posted June 5, 2008 Indeed there are. The OP's claim is false. Those who have dared to take the step of not renewing have been labelled gloryhunters, Johnny-come-latelys, "poison ivy", part-timers and all sorts of other nonsense by some of the "better fan than you" heroes.In fact, I've seen a lot more posts like that than I have posts berating people for renewing. I gather you never read post #28 mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leginten Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 I gather you never read post #28 mate. You posted while I was writing - but I agree with No.28. First decent No.28 I've seen all year... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
We_are_the_Hearts Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 There is little difference between renewers and non-renewers. Non-renewers are hoping to force action, renewers are hoping for action. The difference is maybe that for renewers, the Satutday day out is too much to miss. Wether it be meeting the mates for a pint, the kids loving the footy or getting away from the Mrs. The non-renewers just maybe have other things to do which means they may not miss the footy as much. Me - My kids are too young for the footy and don't mind doing other things. I'm not renewing until a manager is appointed. Makes me no better or worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudolf's Mate Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 At the end of the day I say fair play to those who have and especially to those who were for many years and have now not or at least are waiting! Everyone is entitled to do what they want with their cash though I agree they shouldn't be on here giving other stick because they have or haven't or for saying what they've done.... It's a forum and people are entitled to come on and say that they have or haven't and why they have. If people don't agree with someone elses reasoning then so what! It's their reasoning and theirs only so what's the point in having a go (right or wrong!) I really do take my hat of to the ones who have gone year in year out and are holding back or actually not going to renew. It must have been a hard choice to make!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnegie Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 Ok, I'll have another go. I can prove Buck Rogers exists. Look, I even have a photo of him Can you show me a photo of God? That's a photo of Gil Gerard pretending to be Buck Rogers. Using your logic, I have proven God's existence...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tynie Bubbles Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 Ok, I'll have another go. I can prove Buck Rogers exists. Look, I even have a photo of him Can you show me a photo of God? Buck Rogers is a fictional character originally created in 1928. That is actually a photograph of the actor Gil Gerard. Re, the justification topic in the OP. Unfortunately, internet forums have spawned a generation of holier than thou faux celebrity posters. Nobody here is answerable to anybody else, yet a few self important people seem to genuinely believe otherwise. Point scoring is really boring dontcha think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tynie Bubbles Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 Quicker off the mark than me Carnegie ... but a good point well made Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark_HMFC Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 Its the same with religion. If you can convince others its true, you look less foolish believing it yourself. Didnt you just accuse someone else of attention seeking on another thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Bapswent Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 Didnt you just accuse someone else of attention seeking on another thread? Not sure what your point is. My reply was a reply to the OP, and relevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Bapswent Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 Buck Rogers is a fictional character originally created in 1928.That is actually a photograph of the actor Gil Gerard. Re, the justification topic in the OP. Unfortunately, internet forums have spawned a generation of holier than thou faux celebrity posters. Nobody here is answerable to anybody else, yet a few self important people seem to genuinely believe otherwise. Point scoring is really boring dontcha think? I'm guessing irony and humour is lost on you? You thought I was serious? Jeez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tynie Bubbles Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 I'm guessing irony and humour is lost on you? You thought I was serious? Jeez. Not at all Mr Bapswent, my post was also intended to be ironic humour, can't believe you would actually think otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 Tin Hat On. Why do those who have not renewed think they have the right to tell those who have that they are this that and the other for doing so. I do not see those who have renewed telling those who have not that they are this, that and the other for not doing so. It is about choice is it not and no one has to justify to anyone else why they did or why they did not renew. They have a right because unless by 'telling them they are this and that' you mean blatant personal abuse they are presumably still within the Forum rules. The more pertinent question is why do they have the inclination to do so? Or more confusingly why do some of them insist on going on and on and on about it. Obviously at any club there are a few supporters who'll stick around no matter how bad things get and there are some who will desert at the first hint of bad times. In truth both types, and all types in between, are necessary for the clubs welfare. If hardly anybody was prepared to stand by the club at all through bad times then Hearts would never have escaped the first division. If almost everybody turned up regardless then there would be no incentive for the people in charge to try and resolve anything. The significant minority of people walking away from the club may well succeed in "Sending Vlad a message" and that may well have a positive overall effect but if we all did it then that message would be that the support is so fickle that the financial impact of occasional bad seasons would be so ruinous that it would make more sense to phone Cala. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 Buck: So Did Hibs win the cup while I was gone? Twiki: Beedee Beedee, Negative Buck, You were only frozen for five Centuries, Beedee Beedee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siegementality Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 Another crappy season ticket thread. Will re-newing or not make a blind bit of difference to Romanov, most probably not. For what it's worth I spent what could have been my season ticket money on a new driver and golf shoes, IMO that was a better investment for me. For the last two years Hearts, although I see it as Romanov, haven't had a penny from me, my personal choice, do I feel better about myself for it. yes I do, I won't financially support the club again until Romanov has mended his ways and stops interfering in team selections, my personal choice. If that means that in some peoples eyes I am no longer a Hearts man then so be it, personally I couldn't give a ****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighusref Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 Tin Hat On. Why do those who have not renewed think they have the right to tell those who have that they are this that and the other for doing so. I do not see those who have renewed telling those who have not that they are this, that and the other for not doing so. It is about choice is it not and no one has to justify to anyone else why they did or why they did not renew. It is not a specific trait that the non renewers have. It is well used by many that have renewed. Truth is, everybody is entitled to do exactly what they want with their money and for whatever reason they see fit. Nobody is right, nobody is wrong, everybody does what suits them and it is absolutely fine. HOWEVER, given our current situation, some (me included) believe that withholding season ticket money is one of the only (if not the only) way that we as fans can get it across to our owner that we are not happy with the way things are going on the pitch. In that situation, it is entirely pertinent to a Hearts fans message board why they are not renewing. As any good company will tell you, an exit interview is almost as important as the initial interview. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighusref Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 Prove it. For the love of my god (not your god) don't ask him to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 It is not a specific trait that the non renewers have. It is well used by many that have renewed. Truth is, everybody is entitled to do exactly what they want with their money and for whatever reason they see fit. Nobody is right, nobody is wrong, everybody does what suits them and it is absolutely fine. HOWEVER, given our current situation, some (me included) believe that withholding season ticket money is one of the only (if not the only) way that we as fans can get it across to our owner that we are not happy with the way things are going on the pitch. In that situation, it is entirely pertinent to a Hearts fans message board why they are not renewing. As any good company will tell you, an exit interview is almost as important as the initial interview. Also, and more particularly directed at the OP point, if it is non-renewal in protest then its absolutely the right thing to do to confirm why you are doing it, otherwise it is neutred. If it is a protest you need to tell people it is a protest. Imagine a few guys had just pitched up with some black balloons 4 years ago and started emptying them onto the pitch. People would have been like, wtf are you doing!? Equally a few people who have been criticising Romanov have been told to put up or shut up and have therefore had to enlighten the challenger that they have put up - by not renewing At the end of the day we can all mump and moan about the JKB, the division, the arguments, the abuse etc. There will always be an element of that amongst Hearts fans. The extremes to which we see it is one man's fault alone. The OP should really direct his concerns at him because he has caused it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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