3-5-2

[Phil Dunphy]

I can’t see how this’ll work against better teams in the Premiership tbh. 

 

Maybe be away in Glasgow, but not every week. Thoughts?

[Absolute Scenes]

We lost one game out of 6 playing the formation this season so I'd say it works

[jambomjm74]

It did not work at all - slowed us down. 

how mulraney found himself in at left back ahead of the new Aussie lad or Burns ? One of the craziest of leveins decisions 

 

[19/05/2012]

He has signed 13 players and we still don’t have the players to suit the formation it’s a joke need to go 4231 or 442

[brux]

We looked better when Haring went in to midfield today. Not a fan of this 3 5 1 1 we seems to be going for

[Phil Dunphy]

3 minutes ago, Absolute Scenes said:

We lost one game out of 6 playing the formation this season so I'd say it works

 

Against which Premiership side?

[beerbandit]

1 minute ago, brux said:

We looked better when Haring went in to midfield today. Not a fan of this 3 5 1 1 we seems to be going for

Agree. Lets see two wingers in the team.

[...a bit disco]

Sometimes 442 is all you need.

[cosanostra]

I hate 352. Always have.

We never seem to manage to make it work for us to any degree if consistency.

No idea why Levein has gone with that formation.

[tartofmidlothian]

10 minutes ago, Phil Dunphy said:

I can’t see how this’ll work against better teams in the Premiership tbh. 

 

Maybe be away in Glasgow, but not every week. Thoughts?

 

 

Did we go 4-4-2 at the end or did Haring and Smith just swap? It was hard to tell.

[busby1985]

12 new players in and we STILL don’t have the players to play that formation. 12 new players in and the subs today where all youth academy players. Levein either hasn’t a clue what his best starting 11/formation is or he’s playing champ man with us. MacLean and the new boy not involved today, big man is meant to be carrying an injury, makes the decision not to have MacLean on the bench even worse. He hooks bozanic, who contributed the most, and leaves Lee on who done nothing. He brings Morrison on, he causes them all kinds of bother down the right and then immediately switches him with McDonald. We are two weeks from the start of the season and we have no idea our strongest starting 11 and or best formation. The exact same as last year. How many new players do we need before someone goes “maybe we should get rid of the one common factor in all this”. Blamed Cathro for the nonsense we seen last season, we are seeing the same crap now. Change is needed. 

[Enzo Chiefo]

8 minutes ago, ...a bit disco said:

Sometimes 442 is all you need.

442 is absolutely the best formation imo

[Cruyff Turn]

Doesn't work against teams playing one striker. Works against 2 strikers though. 

 

i think we played that way was because CL wanted to work on shape but clearly it was unnecessary in this game as we were left with 3 players marking one player, which is meant we were losing an extra man elsewhere on the pitch.

 

[Famous 1874]

Only useful against teams that play 2 strikers. Otherwise there is no point in using it. Could probably use it against teams that play 3ATB. Should be a secondary formation that we can switch to if need be. Haring allows us to switch formation in game which is ideal, however today it took too long to change it. Should have been changed within the first 10 mins once they setup with just the one up top. 

[Cruyff Turn]

13 minutes ago, Ali Lawrie said:

Only useful against teams that play 2 strikers. Otherwise there is no point in using it. Could probably use it against teams that play 3ATB. Should be a secondary formation that we can switch to if need be. Haring allows us to switch formation in game which is ideal, however today it took too long to change it. Should have been changed within the first 10 mins once they setup with just the one up top. 

If we're setting up like that vs 1 striker, Either switch Haring into defensive midfield & go 4 atb or allow Souttar a free role as a Libero to go forward. Otherwise you have to switch to a back 4. 

 

CL did this v Sevco at Ibrox last season twice and didn't change it until it was too late, twice we got humped. He

Makes the change far too late.

 

I've seen Bielsa (who plays 3-3-1-3) have a player stripped and ready as a sub within 15 minutes into a game if the other team has changed from 2 forwards to one. 

[Famous 1874]

2 minutes ago, Cruyff Turn said:

If we're setting up like that vs 1 striker, Either switch Haring into defensive midfield & go 4 atb or allow Souttar a free role as a Libero to go forward. Otherwise you have to switch to a back 4. 

 

CL did this v Sevco at Ibrox last season twice and didn't change it until it was too late, twice we got humped. He

Makes the change far too late.

 

I've seen Bielsa (who plays 3-3-1-3) have a player stripped and ready as a sub within 15 minutes into a game if the other team has changed from 2 forwards to one. 

Exactly. Changes should have been made instantaneous as soon as they realised that they were playing 1 up top. Haring’s ability to play in midfield can be useful when switching formation. 

 

Biesla is crazy eh. Pochettino and Guardiola have both said he is the best coach. 

[Vic Vespa]

I'm not a tactical expert.

 

However I did note, on the commentary it was mentioned that Raith had practiced to play against it.

 

Surely then, better teams will do the same and do better than Raith, do we have a plan b, does it matter if teams can play against it, will we just ne predicatable all season?

[Romulus]

The formation hangs Berra out to dry and doesn’t suit him one bit. Caught out with this last season too. 4 at the back please!

[Cruyff Turn]

3 minutes ago, Ali Lawrie said:

Exactly. Changes should have been made instantaneous as soon as they realised that they were playing 1 up top. Haring’s ability to play in midfield can be useful when switching formation. 

 

Biesla is crazy eh. Pochettino and Guardiola have both said he is the best coach. 

He's absolutely nuts but a great coach. 

[iantjambo]

54 minutes ago, ...a bit disco said:

Sometimes 442 is all you need.

442 isn’t cool anymore.

[Smith&Weston]

Formation shouldn’t matter against a League 1 team.  If you go out and attack and play to our strengths we win.

 

Couldnt even call it an away game playing at East Fife.  Shocking result and likely out the cup again before August.

[Bazzas right boot]

Not a fan of 352, but it's not why we drew today. 

 

We never got the early goal, Raith sat deep and their plan worked. 

 

Later on, when we scored they were mentally and physically drained but it was too little too late. 

 

The front two for us were poor today, slow and little movement, suited Raith sitting deep. 

 

I prefer a 442 formation but the 352 failed bacaise of the players being poor. 

 

It's a game we should have won tho, and we need to be more clinical. 

[Jambof3tornado]

3 minutes ago, WeeChuck'sHeed said:

Not a fan of 352, but it's not why we drew today. 

 

We never got the early goal, Raith sat deep and their plan worked. 

 

Later on, when we scored they were mentally and physically drained but it was too little too late. 

 

The front two for us were poor today, slow and little movement, suited Raith sitting deep. 

 

I prefer a 442 formation but the 352 failed bacaise of the players being poor. 

 

It's a game we should have won tho, and we need to be more clinical. 

We created next to nothing. At Cove we created a lot. Today was very different.

[Bazzas right boot]

Just now, Jambof3tornado said:

We created next to nothing. At Cove we created a lot. Today was very different.

 

It was poor, but we created more than them and still should have won. 

 

Imo, the front two were very poor. 

[Jambof3tornado]

We barely tested their time wasting ******* of a goalie. But for smiths wonderstrike we were never getting into the match.

[sadj]

1 hour ago, cosanostra said:

I hate 352. Always have.

We never seem to manage to make it work for us to any degree if consistency.

No idea why Levein has gone with that formation.

Its a bit envogue just now i suppose it also might help us push forward more. Has not happened yet though. Their goal and their other big chance second half came from Mulraney leaving his man to run. 

 

It allowed us to stretch Cove on wednesday with Mulraney and Morrison hogging the lines and let Lee and Bozanic have space to play today with Smith and Mulraney it didnt work after about 10minutes. Smith doesnt have the pace to drive at the defenders so we ended up one dimensional. 

 

Thought that was the best iv seen McDonald look since Christmas when he came on which is promising. Morrison and him added something sorely missing when they came on which is not good enough as a team. 

 

I like the thought that if we are going to play 3-5-2 we stick to it and look to play our way instead of worrying about other teams formations but if we do it we need to ensure it happens.

[rudi must stay]

1 hour ago, Phil Dunphy said:

I can’t see how this’ll work against better teams in the Premiership tbh. 

 

Maybe be away in Glasgow, but not every week. Thoughts?

 

I think it could work. Our back 3 are very solid, infact Berra seems to play better in a 3, taking control of the defence. Our problems are at the other side of the pitch

[GorgieBoy2012]

Levein is off his heed

[kingantti1874]

7 minutes ago, rudi must stay said:

 

I think it could work. Our back 3 are very solid, infact Berra seems to play better in a 3, taking control of the defence. Our problems are at the other side of the pitch

 

Possibly as we have 3 centre halves on the pitch..  I don't like it.. never have.. in some scenarios it's ok but not every week.

 

No one played 3-5-2 until conte did at Chelsea..  Will go back out of fashion soon imo

 

4-3-3  much better

Edited July 21, 2018 by kingantti1874

[Alex Kintner]

1 hour ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

442 is absolutely the best formation imo

 

Totally agree. That’s why none of 

Man City

Man Utd

Liverpool

Chelsea

Tottenham

Arsenal

Celtic

Rangers

Aberdeen

Real Madrid

Barcelona

Bayern Munich etc

 

play 4-4-2.

 

Edited July 21, 2018 by Frank1874

[rudi must stay]

4 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

 

Possibly as we have 3 centre halves on the pitch..  I don't like it.. never have.. in some scenarios it's ok but not every week.

 

No one played 3-5-2 until conte did at Chelsea..  Will go back out of fashion soon imo

 

4-3-3  much better

 

Played right its a great attacking formation. I really like that we're trying it, hopefully we stick with it

[rudi must stay]

6 minutes ago, Frank1874 said:

 

Totally agree. That’s why none of 

Man City

Man Utd

Liverpool

Chelsea

Tottenham

Arsenal

Celtic

Rangers

Aberdeen

Real Madrid

Barcelona

Bayern Munich etc

 

play 4-4-2.

 

 

The 3-5-2 is definatly where it's going at the moment

[Enzo Chiefo]

10 minutes ago, Frank1874 said:

 

Totally agree. That’s why none of 

Man City

Man Utd

Liverpool

Chelsea

Tottenham

Arsenal

Celtic

Rangers

Aberdeen

Real Madrid

Barcelona

Bayern Munich etc

 

play 4-4-2.

 

You need good players to play other formations. With our bog standard average players we should be playing 4-4-2  and keep it simple. But you know, what we really need is a manager that will encourage off the ball movement, high tempo passing and a desire to press the opposition high up the park. The early days of George Burley's reign really do seem light years away.... 

Edited July 21, 2018 by Enzo Chiefo

[kingantti1874]

3 minutes ago, rudi must stay said:

 

Played right its a great attacking formation. I really like that we're trying it, hopefully we stick with it

 

You need special players in the wing back role for it to work. I don't think we have them.. also leaves you vulnerable to a ball down the channel.

 

3-5-2 has been fashionable before - it not a new formation.. but like all systems it can be countered .. teams have worked it out and it'll become less popular in a year or 2.

[amadjambo]

13 minutes ago, Frank1874 said:

 

Totally agree. That’s why none of 

Man City

Man Utd

Liverpool

Chelsea

Tottenham

Arsenal

Celtic

Rangers

Aberdeen

Real Madrid

Barcelona

Bayern Munich etc

 

play 4-4-2.

 

The World Cup Winners 2018 did though.

[Bazzas right boot]

24 minutes ago, rudi must stay said:

 

I think it could work. Our back 3 are very solid, infact Berra seems to play better in a 3, taking control of the defence. Our problems are at the other side of the pitch

 

I agree. 

Movement up front today was poor. 

 

 

[Alex Kintner]

13 minutes ago, rudi must stay said:

 

The 3-5-2 is definatly where it's going at the moment

 

Yeah but I’m not a fan of it. I like a flat back four.

[Debut 4]

Total imbalance, imo.

 

On the left we had a winger devoid of a defensive brain and unable to adjust.

 

On the right we have a limited full back who doesn't have it in his armoury to drive at people and rarely overlaps. 

 

It's not going to happen at every move but we seem to struggle to release our wing backs in good positions. It's all in front of the opposition and rarely do we have them turning and concerned.

 

That suggests we still don't have the central midfield good enough to play this formation.

 

[amadjambo]

1 minute ago, WeeChuck'sHeed said:

 

I agree. 

Movement up front today was poor. 

 

 

We never play with any width in attack when we play a 3. Compare that to when we play a 4, or when we switched today. Full back and winger going forward, overlapping on the wing, and dangerous balls going into the box.

 

We don’t have good enough players to make a 3-5-2 work IMO, and I am struggling to think of many good performances from a Hearts team playing a 3 at the back. 

[gedster]

1 hour ago, Mort said:

The formation hangs Berra out to dry and doesn’t suit him one bit. Caught out with this last season too. 4 at the back please!

 

Dreadful today and brutal in parts at Cove. Default position is to smash a diagonal up the pitch  or slice it for a throw in. No composure in that position and too slow and cumbersome.

[Alex Kintner]

6 minutes ago, amadjambo said:

The World Cup Winners 2018 did though.

 

The only team playing 4-4-2 considtently I can think of were Sweden.

 

France played 4-3-3/ 4-2-3-1

[rudi must stay]

7 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

 

You need special players in the wing back role for it to work. I don't think we have them.. also leaves you vulnerable to a ball down the channel.

 

3-5-2 has been fashionable before - it not a new formation.. but like all systems it can be countered .. teams have worked it out and it'll become less popular in a year or 2.

 

Ye the problems with it IMO is you can be a bit predictable. But the better the players the better it works. I think it is here to stay because you don't really have full backs anymore, they are wingbacks more comfortable further forward

[sidjamesbottle]

2 minutes ago, rudi must stay said:

 

Ye the problems with it IMO is you can be a bit predictable. But the better the players the better it works. I think it is here to stay because you don't really have full backs anymore, they are wingbacks more comfortable further forward

nothing wrong with the formation or the manager if the players cant do the simple things right it wont work ie Mulrany cant cross it !

[Cruyff Turn]

13 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

 

Possibly as we have 3 centre halves on the pitch..  I don't like it.. never have.. in some scenarios it's ok but not every week.

 

No one played 3-5-2 until conte did at Chelsea..  Will go back out of fashion soon imo

 

4-3-3  much better

Capello winning Serie A with Roma in 2000/01 was its come back. Bielsa been playing 3-3-1-3 for years but he nicked that from Cruyff at Barca. Walter Mazzarri played 3-4-3 at Napoli for years. Allegri 3-5-2 at Juve, Guardiola 3-4-3 at Barca and started last season at City playing 3-5-2.

 

The only reason it's come back to these shores is because British football is miles behind the rest of Europe tactically and it's takes foreign managers to introduce new innovations. No British coach has innovated football since Herbert Chapman or Vic Buckingham.

 

Everyone who plays a 4 man defence, they only play it with one striker. 4-4-2 is old fashioned and outdated because it's too flat. 3 at the back allows you to play with two strikers and to have 3 central midfielders, therefore it's a much more attacking formation IF played correctly. It's probably the way forward in the future.

 

I hope Levein doesn't bin it and keeps persevering with it.

[rudi must stay]

3 minutes ago, sidjamesbottle said:

nothing wrong with the formation or the manager if the players cant do the simple things right it wont work ie Mulrany cant cross it !

 

Ye, your right. Its a must in a 3-5-2. 

[Taffin]

4-3-1-2 please.

 

We don't have the wide players for 442 nor the wing backs for 352.

 

Bobby 

Smith Souttar Berra Garuccio

Edwards Djoum Bozanic

Naismith

Uche* Lafferty 

 

(*Vanececk in time)

[Muirhead]

The success of 3-5-2 is all down to your wing backs. We don’t have anyone available at the moment who can play wing back.  Jake Mulraney switched off defensively twice today which allowed their header in the 1st half and their goal in the 2nd.  I was always led to believe you pick the system that suit your squad of players.  We either need to sign wing backs quickly or change the system 

 

that said the formation was only one of a list of things wrong today.  Crosses were going into the box and we only had 2 people in the box - not enough.  Our midfield wanted an age on the ball and nobody showed any desire/urgency/bravery/responsibility.  We still have a worrying lack of creativity in the final third and that is the one part of the squad that hasn’t been addressed unless Naismith is going to step up or a rocket is placed up Olly Lee’s anus.  Milinkovic hasn’t been replaced 

[beerbandit]

1 hour ago, rudi must stay said:

1 hour ago, Cruyff Turn said:

Capello winning Serie A with Roma in 2000/01 was its come back. Bielsa been playing 3-3-1-3 for years but he nicked that from Cruyff at Barca. Walter Mazzarri played 3-4-3 at Napoli for years. Allegri 3-5-2 at Juve, Guardiola 3-4-3 at Barca and started last season at City playing 3-5-2.

 

The only reason it's come back to these shores is because British football is miles behind the rest of Europe tactically and it's takes foreign managers to introduce new innovations. No British coach has innovated football since Herbert Chapman or Vic Buckingham.

 

Everyone who plays a 4 man defence, they only play it with one striker. 4-4-2 is old fashioned and outdated because it's too flat. 3 at the back allows you to play with two strikers and to have 3 central midfielders, therefore it's a much more attacking formation IF played correctly. It's probably the way forward in the future.

 

I hope Levein doesn't bin it and keeps persevering with it.

The 3-5-2 is definatly where it's going at the moment

 

3 hours ago, tartofmidlothian said:

 

 

Did we go 4-4-2 at the end or did Haring and Smith just swap? It was hard to tell.

Its not going anywhere at the moment. Only Chelsea of the top clubs in the English premier play 352. 

[Cruyff Turn]

5 minutes ago, beerbandit said:

 

Its not going anywhere at the moment. Only Chelsea of the top clubs in the English premier play 352. 

They won't this season. their new coach Sarri plays 4-3-3. 

[busby1985]

352 is the preferred formation. We’ve tried to play that formation since we came back up to the Premier League, at various stages it’s worked, other stages it has failed miserably. What I can’t get my head round is how it has taken as many transfer windows to identify and bring in players to suit that formation. For 352 to work, your front 2 have to be the hardest working players on the park, them stretching the defence leaves the space for wing backs to exploit and get in behind. I don’t understand the thinking behind bringing Naismith back, yes he’ll be great for the young lads, but for me, he hasn’t done anything of note for us and doesn’t bring enough away from home. His legs are gone and his style doesn’t suit 352. Lafferty gets frustrated and drops deep and that makes it so easy for defenders to play against 352. We have 0, and I mean 0 decent options for wing back. Mulraney was released by caley thistle for a reason, he’s not good enough. Michael Smith is hard working but he isn’t a wing back. How has it taken us 4 transfer windows, 20 odd plus players in, maybe even more, to solve that problem when we have set out to play 352 for the past three seasons. Berra isn’t a footballing centre back, he doesn’t look comfortable on the ball and goes long far to often cause he’s doesnt want the ball at his feet. When Berra goes long it cuts out Lee and the rest of the midfield and they become redundant. The same problems have plagued us for the past 3 seasons and all the warning signs are there again for this “rebuild” not solving the problems. How can we have brought in 12 players and not one of them be wing back, crazy. What frustrates me the most is we have the players. We have enough decent players to be getting more out them. 352 is the worst formation for the players we have and it’s either (Levein has previous) the manager being stubborn sticking to 352 or, even more worrying, he doesn’t see it’s not working. For me we have the players to play a 4231 or a 4321, like we did more often than not in the championship. When the manager has to turn to youth on the bench today to change a game when two of the players he’s brought in are on the bench, that sets alarm bells off in my head. Edwards must be stinking, again something when probaly all ready knew considering he wasn’t wanted by relegated Partick.  This tinkering/money ball set up is awful and is going to continue to result in disjointed performances where nobody really looks like they know what they are doing. Serious question, when did we last name the same starting 11? Now go through the top 4 in our league and see if you can name the starting 11 of them. It’s no coincidence that we look disjointed compared to the teams we are chasing, we don’t know who our best players are. Shambles.