Club Chaplain

[Beast Boy]

I never knew we had one until today. I read an article saying he was brought in by McGlynn a few years ago as part of a UK wide scheme. It said the role is not religious and he is just there to offer help and for the players to talk to when they are struggling. Another poster alluded to some of his views being a bit dodgy on a nother thread. So as not to derail that thread is it possible to discuss this here instead. I would like to know what the guy has been saying that has caused upset. We are after all suposed to be an all inclusive club.

[Paolo]

I was aware we had one.

 

I do not recall hearing or reading anything dodgy from him.

[William H. Bonney]

Waste of time.

[Shanks said no]

Some felt his sermon was inappropriate at Haymarket this year.

[Beast Boy]

Some felt his sermon was inappropriate at Haymarket this year.

I was not there. What was the issue?

[Paolo]

I wasn't there either, this year, but have been in the past.

[Tiberius Stinkfinger]

Looks like another thread trying to dig deep to find something that doesn't exist, you could call it Shit stirring.

[Beast Boy]

Looks like another thread trying to dig deep to find something that doesn't exist, you could call it Shit stirring.

Sorry what? I have started the thread to keep the other one from being derailed.

[Craigieboy]

The sermons were posted on here a couple of years ago from Charlotte baptist church website.

 

Others will hopefully recall hearing them so it doesn't come across that I'm talking shit.

 

Really homophobic and offensive is the only way you'd describe them.

[Beast Boy]

The sermons were posted on here a couple of years ago from Charlotte baptist church website.

 

Others will hopefully recall hearing them so it doesn't come across that I'm talking shit.

 

Really homophobic and offensive is the only way you'd describe them.

Sounds horrible. Not keen on that at all.

[combo74]

I have never heard of or seen him before and know nothing of his wider views, but what I can say is that he delivered a really good dedication/speech at today's ceremony.

[Don Dan]

If the Chaplain was a problem then I very much doubt he would still associated with the club. He works closely with everyone at all levels of the club and all the players Christians, Muslims and anybody else for that matter. The management don't have a problem either.

[colinmaroon]

The sermons were posted on here a couple of years ago from Charlotte baptist church website.

 

Others will hopefully recall hearing them so it doesn't come across that I'm talking shit.

 

Really homophobic and offensive is the only way you'd describe them.

 

 

Maybe we should sign only players who do not believe in the Bible or the Koran?

 

Atheists only?

 

For a starter, there goes our finding value abroad.

[Tams bird]

Only a young guy. Players think he is " one of the boys "

[Craigieboy]

Maybe we should sign only players who do not believe in the Bible or the Koran?

 

Atheists only?

 

For a starter, there goes our finding value abroad.

A silly thing to say.

 

I'm not promoting one belief over another.

 

However, I do take exception to homophobia, whichever shroud you choose to cloak it in, religious or otherwise.

 

EDIT - and I'm absolutely fine with our players needing/using a club chaplain. No problem at all. I'm not a card carrying, fundamentalist atheist. But given the content of some of his sermons, I'd be surprised if this particular chaplain could offer the needed support in certain circumstances.

[Beast Boy]

Maybe we should sign only players who do not believe in the Bible or the Koran?

 

Atheists only?

 

For a starter, there goes our finding value abroad.

Thats not what he said though. Personally I don't like the thought of us having employees publicly making statements that are homophobic if that is whats happening.

[Buffalo Bill]

He was an Associate Pastor of the Charlotte Chapel which believes in the following:

 

What we believe

Our statement of faith is a summary of the beliefs we consider to be essential for biblical Christianity. All our members joyfully affirm their commitment to these beliefs.

• There is one God in three persons, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
• God is sovereign in creation, revelation, redemption and final judgement.
• The Bible, as originally given, is the inspired and infallible word of God. It is the supreme authority in all matters of belief and behaviour.
• Since the fall, the whole of humankind is sinful and guilty, so that everyone is subject to God?s wrath and condemnation.
• The Lord Jesus Christ, God?s incarnate Son, is fully God; he was born of a virgin; his humanity is real and sinless; he died on the cross, was raised bodily from death and is now reigning over heaven and earth.
• Sinful human beings are redeemed from the guilt, penalty and power of sin only through the sacrificial death once and for all time of their representative and substitute, Jesus Christ, the only mediator between them and God.
• Those who believe in Christ are pardoned all their sins and accepted in God?s sight only because of the righteousness of Christ credited to them; this justification is God?s act of undeserved mercy, received solely by trust in him and not by their own efforts.
• The Holy Spirit alone makes the work of Christ effective to individual sinners, enabling them to turn to God from their sin and to trust in Jesus Christ.
• The Holy Spirit lives in all those he has regenerated. He makes them increasingly Christlike in character and behaviour and gives them power for their witness in the world.
• The one holy universal church is the body of Christ, to which all true believers belong.
• The Lord Jesus Christ will return in person, to judge everyone, to execute God?s just condemnation on those who have not repented and to receive the redeemed to eternal glory.

 

So basically my kids were born as sinners. 

Cheers mate.

[Cast No Shadow]

Religious weirdo. Hardly surprising.

[Beast Boy]

He was an Associate Pastor of the Charlotte Chapel which believes in the following:

What we believe

Our statement of faith is a summary of the beliefs we consider to be essential for biblical Christianity. All our members joyfully affirm their commitment to these beliefs.

• There is one God in three persons, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
• God is sovereign in creation, revelation, redemption and final judgement.
• The Bible, as originally given, is the inspired and infallible word of God. It is the supreme authority in all matters of belief and behaviour.
• Since the fall, the whole of humankind is sinful and guilty, so that everyone is subject to God?s wrath and condemnation.
• The Lord Jesus Christ, God?s incarnate Son, is fully God; he was born of a virgin; his humanity is real and sinless; he died on the cross, was raised bodily from death and is now reigning over heaven and earth.
• Sinful human beings are redeemed from the guilt, penalty and power of sin only through the sacrificial death once and for all time of their representative and substitute, Jesus Christ, the only mediator between them and God.
• Those who believe in Christ are pardoned all their sins and accepted in God?s sight only because of the righteousness of Christ credited to them; this justification is God?s act of undeserved mercy, received solely by trust in him and not by their own efforts.
• The Holy Spirit alone makes the work of Christ effective to individual sinners, enabling them to turn to God from their sin and to trust in Jesus Christ.
• The Holy Spirit lives in all those he has regenerated. He makes them increasingly Christlike in character and behaviour and gives them power for their witness in the world.
• The one holy universal church is the body of Christ, to which all true believers belong.
• The Lord Jesus Christ will return in person, to judge everyone, to execute God?s just condemnation on those who have not repented and to receive the redeemed to eternal glory.

So basically my kids were born as sinners.

Cheers mate.

Good to know. Glad to hear all my dead relatives are being properly dealt with by the big fella to.

[ford donald]

If the Chaplain was a problem then I very much doubt he would still associated with the club. He works closely with everyone at all levels of the club and all the players Christians, Muslims and anybody else for that matter. The management don't have a problem either.

 

Exactly.The man is there to provide support or discuss someone's problems or worries,surely that can only be a good thing.

[Beast Boy]

Exactly.The man is there to provide support or discuss someone's problems or worries,surely that can only be a good thing.

Why not just get a councillor then instead?

[Craigieboy]

Exactly.The man is there to provide support or discuss someone's problems or worries,surely that can only be a good thing.

Not if your problems or worries surround being a closeted homosexual.

 

Given Andys clearly stated views on this, what advice do you think he would be offering?

[Don Dan]

Why not just get a councillor then instead?

He is a councillor.

[Beast Boy]

He is a councillor.

Is he? One with qualifications in a non religious field? If so then thats good. The homophobic stuff is another issue however I dont like the idea of us becoming exclusive to any groups of potential supporters.

[SUTOL]

Where is the evidence of him being homophobic?

[Shrekeo]

Is he? One with qualifications in a non religious field? If so then thats good. The homophobic stuff is another issue however I dont like the idea of us becoming exclusive to any groups of potential supporters.

I can't work out if you are easily offended, trolling or angry that he once pumped your bird!

 

In any case, I believe he provides support and counsel for a number of the team and staff on a multitude of topics/problems and, as I understand it, doesn't patrol the corridors lecturing all who'll listen on the evilness of bumming!

 

You carry on being upset tho......

[Tiberius Stinkfinger]

Sorry what? I have started the thread to keep the other one from being derailed.

 

How silly of me, I should have realised you have to read every other thread before commenting, my apologize.

[maroonnicky63]

Some felt his sermon was inappropriate at Haymarket this year.

 I was there he is very good indeed and as far as I am aware well respected by the players and staff at Hearts unless I have missed something.why bring this out anyway??

[maroonnicky63]

Sorry what? I have started the thread to keep the other one from being derailed.

i don't think so

[Beast Boy]

I can't work out if you are easily offended, trolling or angry that he once pumped your bird!

 

In any case, I believe he provides support and counsel for a number of the team and staff on a multitude of topics/problems and, as I understand it, doesn't patrol the corridors lecturing all who'll listen on the evilness of bumming!

 

You carry on being upset tho......

No need for any of that. How offensive. The only poster displaying any signs of being upset is you. Hence the insults.

[Beast Boy]

i don't think so

You dont think what?

[Shrekeo]

I was there he is very good indeed and as far as I am aware well respected by the players and staff at Hearts unless I have missed something.why bring this out anyway??

Agreed. He is a very young man who has impressed me every time I hear him speak. I dare say, as with us all, he may occasionally make a point in a clumsy manner.

 

As a non-religious man, as far as I am concerned, HMFC are a better club with him involved.

 

Stick that in your secular pipe and smoke it.......

[jambos are go!]

At the service he denounced virtually all good deeds as "selfish love" in that they were done to get things or feel good primarily. He gave an example of a husband doing Housework so that his Wife would deliver favours in the bedroom. Sex for sale and what profession is that suggesting a wife and mother is in. Be gone with him I say.

[Paolo]

Perhaps is is homophobic. I don't know. Anything. I have heard or read anything that sounds homophobic to me, but I was not at this year's ceremony.

 

Perhaps if someone gs examples to highlight this, I might agree, but until then, I could not possibly say.

 

It is easy to go around accusing people of things, without providing examples.

[Shrekeo]

How offensive.

Won't someone think of the children!!!!

[GavK1012]

Some posters on this thread have only been on JKB a matters of weeks and attemmting to cast doubt on club employees...hmmm...hardly rocket science!

 

Contempt is how this thread should be treated pure and simple...

[Maple Leaf]

He was an Associate Pastor of the Charlotte Chapel which believes in the following:

 

What we believe

Our statement of faith is a summary of the beliefs we consider to be essential for biblical Christianity. All our members joyfully affirm their commitment to these beliefs.

• There is one God in three persons, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
• God is sovereign in creation, revelation, redemption and final judgement.
• The Bible, as originally given, is the inspired and infallible word of God. It is the supreme authority in all matters of belief and behaviour.
• Since the fall, the whole of humankind is sinful and guilty, so that everyone is subject to God?s wrath and condemnation.
• The Lord Jesus Christ, God?s incarnate Son, is fully God; he was born of a virgin; his humanity is real and sinless; he died on the cross, was raised bodily from death and is now reigning over heaven and earth.
• Sinful human beings are redeemed from the guilt, penalty and power of sin only through the sacrificial death once and for all time of their representative and substitute, Jesus Christ, the only mediator between them and God.
• Those who believe in Christ are pardoned all their sins and accepted in God?s sight only because of the righteousness of Christ credited to them; this justification is God?s act of undeserved mercy, received solely by trust in him and not by their own efforts.
• The Holy Spirit alone makes the work of Christ effective to individual sinners, enabling them to turn to God from their sin and to trust in Jesus Christ.
• The Holy Spirit lives in all those he has regenerated. He makes them increasingly Christlike in character and behaviour and gives them power for their witness in the world.
• The one holy universal church is the body of Christ, to which all true believers belong.
• The Lord Jesus Christ will return in person, to judge everyone, to execute God?s just condemnation on those who have not repented and to receive the redeemed to eternal glory.

 

So basically my kids were born as sinners. 

Cheers mate.

 

He's a pastor in a Christian church, and those are statements of Christian belief, so it would have been surprising if he didn't hold those beliefs, even 'though some of them might seem extreme to non-Christians.

 

Why the Club feels that it needs a pastor in the first place is a mystery to me.  Is having a pastor in a PLC usual?

 

The Club should also consider if there is any conflict with those beliefs and the Club's stated Corporate Responsibility, part of which I'm posting here:

 

"Big Hearts Community Trust is the club's main vehicle for investing in community development projects. It is an independent charity and its role is to support the work of local people towards building communities where people of all ages can live, work and participate in sport safely, where they welcome each others' differences and help each other to grow and succeed."

 

The emphasis is mine.

[Beast Boy]

So far because I have asked for more information on something I previously knew anything about I have been called a Hibs supporter, contemptible, a troll, easily offended and had it suggested the guy is sleeping with my partner. Can someone please tell me what I have said to warrant this?

[Craigieboy]

The evidence was heard by numerous others a couple of years ago, as mentioned. I'll need to rely on them coming on the thread to back up what I'm saying.

 

Perhaps those aren't his opinions now and his church has stepped into the 21st century or at least counselled him to tone it down a little, but I really doubt it.

 

EDIT - or perhaps his audio recordings are still floating around since they were posted here around two years ago. It's possible.

[Shrekeo]

Some posters on this thread have only been on JKB a matters of weeks and attemmting to cast doubt on club employees...hmmm...hardly rocket science!

 

Contempt is how this thread should be treated pure and simple...

How offensive!!

 

Don't you know we are an inclusive club and you are alienating ill-informed, trouble-making mouthbreathers everywhere!

 

I. Won't. Stand. For. It.

[Paolo]

The evidence was heard by numerous others a couple of years ago, as mentioned. I'll need to rely on them coming on the thread to back up what I'm saying.

 

Perhaps those aren't his opinions now and his church has stepped into the 21st century or at least counselled him to tone it down a little, but I really doubt it.

I am not saying you are lying, so don't require you to be backed up. What did he say, though? You haven't said.

 

I was there a couple of years ago, but don't recall, but was in a bad position for audio, made worse by the traffic and trams. I did not hear a lot of what he said. If what you say is true, I am kind of glad.

[Shrekeo]

So far because I have asked for more information on something I previously knew anything about I have been called a Hibs supporter, contemptible, a troll, easily offended and had it suggested the guy is sleeping with my partner. Can someone please tell me what I have said to warrant this?

Start stupid threads. Get deserving answers.

[Bowmans_Boot]

Not if your problems or worries surround being a closeted homosexual.

 

Given Andys clearly stated views on this, what advice do you think he would be offering?

I havent read Andys views on homosexuality, but if a player did go to him with that then I would fully expect him to be supportive, sympathetic and understanding. A key element of christianity is love and understanding of/for all others.

 

The only christians who dont follow that tend to be of the extreme/freak nature, and I doubt the club would have appointed, and retained him if he fell into that category.

[Beast Boy]

Start stupid threads. Get deserving answers.

No can you please quote what I have said to get these deserved answers.

[Craigieboy]

I am not saying you are lying, so don't require you to be backed up. What did he say, though? You haven't said.

 

I was there a couple of years ago, but don't recall, but was in a bad position for audio, made worse by the traffic and trams. I did not hear a lot of what he said. If what you say is true, I am kind of glad.

It wasn't recordings from the service at Haymarket. It was recordings from his church services.

 

The church sermon recordings were extremely offensive, bordering on hate speech imo. I imagined some young closeted homosexual sitting in his congregation being made to feel awkward, dirty, sinful.

 

I'm not into it. Perhaps others view this as part of life and just accept it. But if we are going to be a progressive society (and football club) then we really need to reject this sort of belief and show ourselves to be inclusive.

[chuck berrys hairline]

The evidence was heard by numerous others a couple of years ago, as mentioned. I'll need to rely on them coming on the thread to back up what I'm saying.

 

Perhaps those aren't his opinions now and his church has stepped into the 21st century or at least counselled him to tone it down a little, but I really doubt it.

 

EDIT - or perhaps his audio recordings are still floating around since they were posted here around two years ago. It's possible.

Surely you can quote what he said that you found offensive. Where was he when he said it?

If it was in the church then he isn't going to speak out against his god is he.

 

Seen your reply above, so any Muslim players inciting the Quaran should be launched by your logic.

[Craigieboy]

Surely you can quote what he said that you found offensive. Where was he when he said it?

If it was in the church then he isn't going to speak out against his god is he.

 

Seen your reply above, so any Muslim players inciting the Quaran should be launched by your logic.

What he said was that homosexuality is an abomination. A sin. Quite a lot of other remarks which were unacceptable.

 

I'll ignore your last part as it doesn't make sense.

[Craigieboy]

Probably should clarify that by closeted homosexual, in the instance above, I'm referring to young people who are raised in a church, who are homosexual but can't be open about it because of believing family members and friends.

 

The sermons were actually embarrassing to listen to. And an indictment to whoever has taught Andy Prime his view on life.

[The Don]

The chaplain Belongs/belonged to Charlotte Chapel. Very conservative Baptist cult set in the dark ages with their views. Anti gay, no sex outwith marriage, woman are seen as inferior to men. The list goes on.

 

And before anyone asks how i know these facts or says in talking shite. I'm an ex member of that Church. Luckily I got out and away from constant bible bushings.

 

There are so many stories I could tell you all about, about that cult but I'll leave it as is. As I've just read a couple of posts I can see some people have experience of him and that churches views.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[chuck berrys hairline]

You can't sack someone for their religious beliefs. Yes what he said was outdated but it was in his place of work aswell. He's never going to say the opposite is he.